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Thread: What exactly was/is/or will be the Abomination of Desolation

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    What exactly was/is/or will be the Abomination of Desolation

    I am asking this question because there are some that believe that the Abomination of Desolation has already occurred at least once or twice in history. I would like to see that actual (specific) item or event or action you believe was or will be the actual Desecration of the Holy Place. I will quote each place in scripture where the desolation of the holy place seems to occur below. Please comment on each event (as some believe they are different events.)


    Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    (Luke 21 is implied... but comment away...)


    Please let me know if you believe there is another scripture that belong.
    Last edited by Slug1; Sep 19th 2017 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Made some corrections.. Something is wrong when I post...

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    I am asking this question because there are some that believe that the Abomination of Desolation has already occurred at least once or twice in history. I would like to see that actual (specific) item or event or action you believe was or will be the actual Desecration of the Holy Place. I will quote each place in scripture where the desolation of the holy place seems to occur below. Please comment on each event (as some believe they are different events.)


    Daniel 9:0 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    (Luke 21 is implied... but comment away...)


    Please let me know if you believe there is another scripture that belong.
    Have you determined where the Holy Place is?


    Jude
    II Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4
    In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Sorry, somehow the title got messed up... It should read "What exactly was/is/or will be the Abomination of Desolation"

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    I am asking this question because there are some that believe that the Abomination of Desolation has already occurred at least once or twice in history. I would like to see that actual (specific) item or event or action you believe was or will be the actual Desecration of the Holy Place. I will quote each place in scripture where the desolation of the holy place seems to occur below. Please comment on each event (as some believe they are different events.)


    Daniel 9:0 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    (Luke 21 is implied... but comment away...)


    Please let me know if you believe there is another scripture that belong.
    IMO, when Jesus said in Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet...it seems ludicrous to me that He may have meant the first passage you supplied, or maybe the 2nd one, or maybe the 3rd one, or maybe the 4th one, just not all of them. How anyone can look at the first 4 passages you submitted, side by side like that, and then conclude they all are not speaking of the same events, is beyond me. Since Jesus didn't indicate any specific passage in Daniel, and that there are numerous passages connected with this subject, like you have shown, apparently He meant for the reader to read all of these passages as the same context, and not divide them into different contexts instead.

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Have you determined where the Holy Place is?


    Jude
    Yes.

    Scripture indicates it is: "The place of the Sanctuary", "the Sanctuary", "the Sanctuary of strength", and the "Holy Place".

    It is associated with Judea and Jerusalem in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

    And it is associated with Sacrifices and the God of Daniel.

    Do you know of a Holy place where all those terms and locations apply?

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    Yes.

    Scripture indicates it is: "The place of the Sanctuary", "the Sanctuary", "the Sanctuary of strength", and the "Holy Place".

    It is associated with Judea and Jerusalem in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

    And it is associated with Sacrifices and the God of Daniel.

    Do you know of a Holy place where all those terms and locations apply?
    There's always the possibility that a lot of this is not even meant to be taken literally. Those who take these things literally usually end up concluding it's about 70 AD and that temple, or that a third temple gets built in the end of the age, thus it's about that temple then.

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    IMO, when Jesus said in Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet...it seems ludicrous to me that He may have meant the first passage you supplied, or maybe the 2nd one, or maybe the 3rd one, or maybe the 4th one, just not all of them. How anyone can look at the first 4 passages you submitted, side by side like that, and then conclude they all are not speaking of the same events, is beyond me. Since Jesus didn't indicate any specific passage in Daniel, and that there are numerous passages connected with this subject, like you have shown, apparently He meant for the reader to read all of these passages as the same context, and not divide them into different contexts instead.
    I agree with you David. When people don't look at the entire context of a situation, it does not allow for a perfect timeline.

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    Yes.

    Scripture indicates it is: "The place of the Sanctuary", "the Sanctuary", "the Sanctuary of strength", and the "Holy Place".

    It is associated with Judea and Jerusalem in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

    And it is associated with Sacrifices and the God of Daniel.

    Do you know of a Holy place where all those terms and locations apply?
    To the Hebrews this was the Holy of Holies..

    Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

    19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

    20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

    21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

    22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

    http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Ex-25.html


    Jude

    *edit: forgot this..

    Isa 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, thatdwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, ofall the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
    II Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4
    In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    There's always the possibility that a lot of this is not even meant to be taken literally. Those who take these things literally usually end up concluding it's about 70 AD and that temple, or that a third temple gets built in the end of the age, thus it's about that temple then.
    I understand that idea, however when Jesus says "WHEN YOU SEE", I immediately Hear my Shepherd's voice and LOOK with my eyes. If He had said, "When you hear about", I would then LISTEN with my ears for something... If I instead say in my heart "What He means is", where might I end up? Anything could then become whatever I desired...

    This spiritual discernment idea of interpreting Prophecy really scares me. The Lord explained this to me...

    If they see not with their eyes, then they see with their ears, yet they are blind... Being blind they can not see clearly what stands before them. They interpret the thing with their hands and ears, whereas He asks them to see with their eyes and hear with their ears. They do not receive the full interpretation in what they "see", but rather only see the outline of it. Then their imagination fills in the missing parts.

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    To the Hebrews this was the Holy of Holies..

    Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

    19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

    20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

    21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

    22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

    http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Ex-25.html


    Jude

    *edit: forgot this..

    Isa 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, thatdwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, ofall the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
    In the days of the Temple, did not all people, not just the Hebrews, understand that this location was the most Holy site in All of Israel? And even now, do not even we, the Christians agree that the Jews accept the Temple mount where the Temple stood as their Holiest site? I think I see where you are leading, but understand that the Temple whether Past or Future is that place.

  11. #11

    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    There's always the possibility that a lot of this is not even meant to be taken literally. Those who take these things literally usually end up concluding it's about 70 AD and that temple, or that a third temple gets built in the end of the age, thus it's about that temple then.
    Once we get on the track of getting away from the plain literal sense of Scripture there is no end to foolish speculations and fancies. "The holy place" is clearly a reference to the temple in Jerusalem.

    But you have absolutely no basis for suggesting that prophecies concerning the Abomination of Desolation are "not even meant to be taken literally". God does NOT play mind games (as do some people).

    Those who claim that the prophecy of the Abomination of Desolation was fulfilled around 70 AD do not have any facts to back them up. Yes, the temple was desecrated, and so were the sacrifices. But a careful reading of the history of that period in 2 Maccabees will make it clear that what happened then was simply a precursor of what is to come.

    But there is more to the prophecy than that. If we fail to connect Daniel, the Gospels, the epistles, and Revelation into one cohesive whole regarding the Antichrist and the Abomination of Desolation, we will never come to a knowledge of the truth.

    It should also be noted that when the Olivet Discourse is harmonized in the Gospels, Christ referred to both (1) the destruction of the existing temple in 70 AD and (2) the existence of a future temple when the Antichrist takes control. How do we know this? Simply by noting that Jesus connected the Great Tribulation to the Abomination of Desolation, and the Great Tribulation (a unique event which has never occurred and will never occur again) is yet future.

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Once we get on the track of getting away from the plain literal sense of Scripture there is no end to foolish speculations and fancies. "The holy place" is clearly a reference to the temple in Jerusalem.

    But you have absolutely no basis for suggesting that prophecies concerning the Abomination of Desolation are "not even meant to be taken literally". God does NOT play mind games (as do some people).

    Those who claim that the prophecy of the Abomination of Desolation was fulfilled around 70 AD do not have any facts to back them up. Yes, the temple was desecrated, and so were the sacrifices. But a careful reading of the history of that period in 2 Maccabees will make it clear that what happened then was simply a precursor of what is to come.

    But there is more to the prophecy than that. If we fail to connect Daniel, the Gospels, the epistles, and Revelation into one cohesive whole regarding the Antichrist and the Abomination of Desolation, we will never come to a knowledge of the truth.

    It should also be noted that when the Olivet Discourse is harmonized in the Gospels, Christ referred to both (1) the destruction of the existing temple in 70 AD and (2) the existence of a future temple when the Antichrist takes control. How do we know this? Simply by noting that Jesus connected the Great Tribulation to the Abomination of Desolation, and the Great Tribulation (a unique event which has never occurred and will never occur again) is yet future.
    I happen to think this all connects with the 2 beasts in Rev 13 for one. I take very little in that chapter in the literal sense. I also see it connecting with 2 Thess 2 as well. There for sure is a temple in that chapter, except I no longer take it to be meaning a literal one, though years ago I did. And I'm Premil on top of that. Go figure.

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    I understand that idea, however when Jesus says "WHEN YOU SEE", I immediately Hear my Shepherd's voice and LOOK with my eyes. If He had said, "When you hear about", I would then LISTEN with my ears for something... If I instead say in my heart "What He means is", where might I end up? Anything could then become whatever I desired...

    This spiritual discernment idea of interpreting Prophecy really scares me. The Lord explained this to me...

    If they see not with their eyes, then they see with their ears, yet they are blind... Being blind they can not see clearly what stands before them. They interpret the thing with their hands and ears, whereas He asks them to see with their eyes and hear with their ears. They do not receive the full interpretation in what they "see", but rather only see the outline of it. Then their imagination fills in the missing parts.
    I'm not one that interprets all prophecies in that manner. Yet how can some of it not meant to be understood that way?

    Consider the following.

    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    Compare that with this in Dan 11.

    Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    Does not Luke 21:24 tell us what the many days in Daniel 11:33 are referring to? Would it not be the times of the Gentiles?

    Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Doesn't Revelation 11:2 indicate Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles(Luke 21:24) forty and two months? Is not that forty and two months meaning the 42 month reign of the beast in Rev 13? Should that 42 months be taken literal or non literal? If literal, nothing in Luke 21 can connect with the events of 70 AD like some suppose. Because the events of 70 AD happened thousand of years ago, and that the 42 months in Rev 11 and 13 would have to occur at the end of the age if taken literally. My point is, Jerusalem being surrounded is what leads to Luke 21:24 ultimately. So these have to occur within the same timeframe more or less.

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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    In the days of the Temple, did not all people, not just the Hebrews, understand that this location was the most Holy site in All of Israel? And even now, do not even we, the Christians agree that the Jews accept the Temple mount where the Temple stood as their Holiest site? I think I see where you are leading, but understand that the Temple whether Past or Future is that place.
    I've been watching this movement gain momentum over the past 45 years.. this was their progress in 2013..

    An historic agreement has been drafted between Israel and the Vatican. The Israeli authorities have granted the Pope an official seat in the room where the Last Supper is believed to have taken place, on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, and where David and Solomon, Jewish kings of Judea, are considered by some researchers, to also be buried.

    It is the culmination of a long campaign by the Catholic Church to regain religious stewardship over the place where Jesus is supposed to have broken bread and drunk wine with his disciples on the eve of his crucifixion.

    This is an enormous issue pushed through without any public debate.

    According to our sources, the agreement, which is expected to be ratified next June, gives the Pope a “special authority” over the second floor of the building, so that Christian pilgrims will be able to celebrate religious functions like Pope John Paul did in 2000.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ar...cle.aspx/12814

    Have you ever seen the seat the pope sits in?


    Jude
    II Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4
    In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



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    Re: What exactly was/is/or

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I'm not one that interprets all prophecies in that manner. Yet how can some of it not meant to be understood that way?

    Consider the following.

    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    Compare that with this in Dan 11.

    Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    Does not Luke 21:24 tell us what the many days in Daniel 11:33 are referring to? Would it not be the times of the Gentiles?

    Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Doesn't Revelation 11:2 indicate Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles(Luke 21:24) forty and two months? Is not that forty and two months meaning the 42 month reign of the beast in Rev 13? Should that 42 months be taken literal or non literal? If literal, nothing in Luke 21 can connect with the events of 70 AD like some suppose. Because the events of 70 AD happened thousand of years ago, and that the 42 months in Rev 11 and 13 would have to occur at the end of the age if taken literally. My point is, Jerusalem being surrounded is what leads to Luke 21:24 ultimately. So these have to occur within the same timeframe more or less.
    The scriptures have a PERFECT Literal understanding that you posted:

    Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 Speaks of Great Tribulation right after the Abomination of Desolation (in the future). You then post Luke 21:24 and Daniel 11:33. This is the fulfillment of GREAT TRIBULATION. The Tribulation on the Saints is PERFORMED by the Gentiles, who will follow the Beast. While The SAINTS (or those of understanding in Daniel 11:33, and Those who are lead what to say in Mark 13:11 [parallel scripture]) will be persecuted UNTO DEATH by the Gentiles, they will turn many TO JESUS CHRIST. It will be a testimony unto them. (Luke 21:13 - Also parallel with Daniel 11:33, and Mark 13:11)

    YES the Gentiles will continue for 42 months to destroy, but THE OBJECT of their destruction will change as the playing field changes. The Gentiles start their carnage at the Abomination which marks the middle of the 70th week. They actually start the Tribulation against the GOD BELIEVING persons (primarily focused on the WOMAN - ISRAEL) in Judea (Matt 24:16-21), but they (The Jews and Israel) will see it and will run away and hide... The focus of these Gentiles will then change to Christians all over the world possibly within a day. It will spread like wild fire, and 1/4th of the earth will die very quickly, like within a month fast... Revelation 6:8-11.

    BUT, Jesus promises that the GREAT TRIBULATION unleashed by the Gentiles will CUT SHORT from 3.5 years. The reason is because God know that the Gentiles will not follow the "rules" and only kill those who Love our God, and Serve His Son Jesus Christ. They will start to kill ANYONE and EVERYONE. If Christ does not stop this run-away train, all the earth will be slaughtered. So then what happens?

    Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30a And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,

    Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Then the GENTILES who have been slaughtering 1/4 of (not just Christians and Jews) the earth (for only a small part of the 3.5 years) will STOP GREAT TRIBULATION, and will run for the Hills themselves. Notice that the GENTILES KNOW who the Sign of the Son of Man represents in the Heavens, THE LAMB OF GOD! While the GENTILES are distracted, this happens:

    Matt 24:30b and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


    This is not the RAPTURE... THIS is the Resurrection of the JUST AND THE UNJUST, who will be judged by Jesus Christ from the clouds at that moment. (Matt 13:30)

    Then this happens Revelation 7:1-8 (The sealing of the 144,000) The Woman escapes the Dragon for 3.5 Years. (Notice that this 3.5 years of the WOMAN Does not line up with the 42 months that the GENTILE will trample...) The gentiles 3.5 years stars up to a month or few before the 144,000 are sealed... (After 3.5 years The 144,000 are seen in heaven AFTER the 7th Trump is Sounded in Rev 14:1.)

    After the 144,000 are sealed this happens:

    1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


    As for the GENTILES that still have at least a couple of years left to trample on Jerusalem, They will continue until the 7th Trumpet and some of them in armies will chase after the Woman who is now sealed...

    Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    But they cant get her because She is sealed! So Satan sends the armies after those to whom the 144,000 are teaching about Jesus Christ. THESE children of the Woman will be SAVED, and will be Beheaded, as they were born LATE (Missing the Rapture.) The only way for them to prove their loyalty to Christ is to Die by Beheading for their Testimony and the Word of God. This will occur after they are persecuted until and/or after the 7th Trump.

    Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

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