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Thread: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

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    The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    There will be a great Day of vengeance and wrath against the enemies of the Lord and it seems that it may be the next dramatic happening that we will experience here on earth.
    Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this coming from Edom?.... in power and victory....I trod on the nations in My anger, their blood stained My garments. I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year for redeeming My own had come.
    Rev 14:14-16 ...there appeared a Man wearing a gold crown and with a sickle in His hand. He swept over the earth with His sickle and the earth was reaped.
    These two passages describe the Lord Jesus carrying out God’s judgement on His enemies. This must take place before His glorious Return, because at that time, He is described as coming robed in a garment dyed in blood. Rev 19:13

    Isaiah 66:15-16 See, the Lord is coming in fire, [not on the clouds, in glory, as at the Return] His sword will test mankind. Many will be slain. The Lord’s enemies will all meet their end.
    Micah 5:15 In anger and fury, I shall wreak vengeance on the nations who disobey Me.
    Psalms 50:1-3…. Our God is coming, in consuming fire and a raging storm.
    Habakkuk 3:12 Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.
    Isaiah 59:15-18 The Lord was displeased...outraged... so He put on garments of vengeance. According to their wicked deeds, He will repay.
    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all evildoers will be stubble.
    Hebrews 10:27 A terrifying judgement of fire that will consume Gods enemies.

    So, the Lords vengeance is to be as ‘a consuming fire, burning like a furnace’. 2 Peter 3:7 This can be paralleled by Ezekiel 20:46-47...I am about to kindle a fire in the Negev, its fiery flame will scorch everyone to the North. This passage and others, clearly describe a Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun. Proved by Isaiah 30:26a, Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1 This will happen at the moment the attackers of Israel prepare to strike. Psalms 11:4-6, Isaiah 21:2... Advance Elam, up Media to the siege! Do not hesitate! [Elam & Media = Iran] Many prophecies tell of the destruction of Israel’s attackers. Amos 1, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Psalms 83:1-18, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-5
    But, for all Christian believers, who trust the Lord, we have: Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
    1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for the judgement to begin – it is beginning with Gods own
    household. [In the holy Land]
    Isaiah 35:4 Say to the anxious; be strong! God will save you, at the time of His vengeance. Isaiah 30:26b
    Jeremiah 12:14-17 These are the words of the Lord; all those evil peoples who have encroached onto the Land, which I allotted to My people, Israel as their holding, I shall uproot them. Also I shall uproot Judah, but I shall have pity on them and bring them back, IF they learn the ways [Christian faith] of My People. The nation that will not change its ways, I shall destroy.
    This passage clearly tells about the cleansing of the Land of Israel, which will happen as a result of the Lords Day of wrath. Then it says that some Jews may return, provided they believe in the Lord Jesus. This proves that by then, His people: all the Christian peoples of God, will have migrated to and settled into all of the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Revelation 7:9

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    There will be a great Day of vengeance and wrath against the enemies of the Lord and it seems that it may be the next dramatic happening that we will experience here on earth.
    Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this coming from Edom?.... in power and victory....I trod on the nations in My anger, their blood stained My garments. I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year for redeeming My own had come.
    Rev 14:14-16 ...there appeared a Man wearing a gold crown and with a sickle in His hand. He swept over the earth with His sickle and the earth was reaped.
    These two passages describe the Lord Jesus carrying out God’s judgement on His enemies. This must take place before His glorious Return, because at that time, He is described as coming robed in a garment dyed in blood. Rev 19:13

    Isaiah 66:15-16 See, the Lord is coming in fire, [not on the clouds, in glory, as at the Return] His sword will test mankind. Many will be slain. The Lord’s enemies will all meet their end.
    Micah 5:15 In anger and fury, I shall wreak vengeance on the nations who disobey Me.
    Psalms 50:1-3…. Our God is coming, in consuming fire and a raging storm.
    Habakkuk 3:12 Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.
    Isaiah 59:15-18 The Lord was displeased...outraged... so He put on garments of vengeance. According to their wicked deeds, He will repay.
    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all evildoers will be stubble.
    Hebrews 10:27 A terrifying judgement of fire that will consume Gods enemies.

    So, the Lords vengeance is to be as ‘a consuming fire, burning like a furnace’. 2 Peter 3:7 This can be paralleled by Ezekiel 20:46-47...I am about to kindle a fire in the Negev, its fiery flame will scorch everyone to the North. This passage and others, clearly describe a Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun. Proved by Isaiah 30:26a, Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1 This will happen at the moment the attackers of Israel prepare to strike. Psalms 11:4-6, Isaiah 21:2... Advance Elam, up Media to the siege! Do not hesitate! [Elam & Media = Iran] Many prophecies tell of the destruction of Israel’s attackers. Amos 1, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Psalms 83:1-18, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-5
    But, for all Christian believers, who trust the Lord, we have: Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
    1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for the judgement to begin – it is beginning with Gods own
    household. [In the holy Land]
    Isaiah 35:4 Say to the anxious; be strong! God will save you, at the time of His vengeance. Isaiah 30:26b
    Jeremiah 12:14-17 These are the words of the Lord; all those evil peoples who have encroached onto the Land, which I allotted to My people, Israel as their holding, I shall uproot them. Also I shall uproot Judah, but I shall have pity on them and bring them back, IF they learn the ways [Christian faith] of My People. The nation that will not change its ways, I shall destroy.
    This passage clearly tells about the cleansing of the Land of Israel, which will happen as a result of the Lords Day of wrath. Then it says that some Jews may return, provided they believe in the Lord Jesus. This proves that by then, His people: all the Christian peoples of God, will have migrated to and settled into all of the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Revelation 7:9
    Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this coming from Edom?.... in power and victory....I trod on the nations in My anger, their blood stained My garments. I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year for redeeming My own had come.
    Rev 14:14-16 ...there appeared a Man wearing a gold crown and with a sickle in His hand. He swept over the earth with His sickle and the earth was reaped.
    These two passages describe the Lord Jesus carrying out God’s judgement on His enemies. This must take place before His glorious Return, because at that time, He is described as coming robed in a garment dyed in blood. Rev 19:13
    The Rev 14:14-16 is not the WRATH... That is SPECIFICALLY and unequivocally Jesus reaping (catching up-A HARPAZO) the Souls who did not take the mark of the beast, who were beheaded... They are left behind at "Christs Coming" when He judges the Saints and separates the Sheep from the goats, and teh Goats are left behind. These in Rev 14:14-16 are the GOATS, who finally realized that if they want to go to heaven at all, they MUST die for Christ by beheading. They are then mentioned in Rev 15, after they (as souls) are in heaven ready to be a part of the Wedding of Christ to His Bride. You are looking for Rev 14:17-20... That is the GRAPES OF WRATH, the treading of the wine up to the horses Bridle, Jesus killing at Armageddon after His Father's Wrath...

    That aside, YES, Jesus will come after the Bowls of Wrath are poured out, and that is the FINAL fulfillment of the "DAY OF THE LORD".

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    The Rev 14:14-16 is not the WRATH... That is SPECIFICALLY and unequivocally Jesus reaping (catching up-A HARPAZO) the Souls who did not take the mark of the beast, who were beheaded... They are left behind at "Christs Coming" when He judges the Saints and separates the Sheep from the goats, and teh Goats are left behind. These in Rev 14:14-16 are the GOATS, who finally realized that if they want to go to heaven at all, they MUST die for Christ by beheading. They are then mentioned in Rev 15, after they (as souls) are in heaven ready to be a part of the Wedding of Christ to His Bride. You are looking for Rev 14:17-20... That is the GRAPES OF WRATH, the treading of the wine up to the horses Bridle, Jesus killing at Armageddon after His Father's Wrath...

    That aside, YES, Jesus will come after the Bowls of Wrath are poured out, and that is the FINAL fulfillment of the "DAY OF THE LORD".
    Wow, you rapture to heaven folks are real dreamers!
    In the context of the great Winepress of God, it is the wicked that are reaped in Revelation 14:14-20 Revelation 14:12-13 calls for the endurance of God's people and how the deeds of those who die in their faith are recorded, so how possibly can the last 6 verses of chapter 14 have anything to do with the righteous?
    I doubt if anyone other the most rabid rapturists will agree with you on this issue.

    The Day of the Lord's wrath is just a one day event. Isaiah 4:7-9, Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:6, Revelation 18:8
    The 7 Bowls occur during the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Wow, you rapture to heaven folks are real dreamers!
    In the context of the great Winepress of God, it is the wicked that are reaped in Revelation 14:14-20 Revelation 14:12-13 calls for the endurance of God's people and how the deeds of those who die in their faith are recorded, so how possibly can the last 6 verses of chapter 14 have anything to do with the righteous?
    I doubt if anyone other the most rabid rapturists will agree with you on this issue.

    The Day of the Lord's wrath is just a one day event. Isaiah 4:7-9, Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:6, Revelation 18:8
    The 7 Bowls occur during the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.
    OK, please listen. There will actually be a few groups of individuals TAKEN UP into heaven. The one I am talking about in Rev 14:14-16 IS NOT the same event as 1 Thess 4:17.

    When the Event in 1 Thess 4:17 happens, approximately 3.5 years "before Jesus Returns" (as you state and believe-which I understand to be the return on the White Horse), the Church will do the bold text in the following:

    1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Caught UP in the CLOUDS in the AIR.

    But again, I was not talking about that event. I was talking about a Separate REAPING (or collecting together) onto the Cloud where He will sit as the Son of Man. If the Church is already in heaven ready for the Marriage, this event is a collecting of another. This IS NOT the TREADING of the WRATH. I need you so see this:

    Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

    17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.


    There are two different gatherings here that you are not separating. One by the SON OF MAN Himself, and one of an ANGEL (singular - not multiple). The ANGEL is "another" and is not associated with Jesus. The Angel is doing the WORK OF THE FATHER. The Bowls of Wrath of God is the FATHERS Wrath, not that of the Son. The SON will do His part ON THE WHITE HORSE. But if you are going to say that Jesus is pouring out His wrath here in Rev 14:16, you are wrong.

    Jesus DOES NOT fight at Armageddon BEFORE the Father pours out the Bowls of Wrath by His angels. Therefore the REAPING at Rev 14:16 IS NOT the White horse arrival. He is on a CLOUD, not Horse. He is doing it before the WRATH OF GOD, not after.

    Rev 14:16 IS the Collection of Saints mentioned the few verses earlier!

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Thanks for your patient reply, SoF.
    With the 1 Thess 4:15-17 prophecy, we do not agree the timing or the destination of those who will be caught up. The plain statement is that it happens when Jesus leaves heaven to Return to earth for His Millennium reign and those of His people who remain alive, will meet Him, then be with Him. On earth.
    Heaven is only mentioned there, as the place Jesus comes from.

    I do see Revelation 14:14-20 as two events, but only 24 hours apart.
    The first will be the powerful Electro-Magnetic Pulse of a CME explosion on the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26a This will destroy the armies and missiles attacking Israel. Psalms 7:12-16, Psalms 83, Psalms 11:4-6, Revelation 6:12-17, +
    Then when the main mass of superheated hydrogen arrives, it will devastate the world. Plenty of Bible prophecy confirms this scenario; how people will be terrified as the sky darkens and the moon glows bright red, etc. Jeremiah 6:24-26, Ezekiel 7:17, Isaiah 13:9-13

    Your separation of the Father and Son, is unbiblical: They are ONE

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Thanks for your patient reply, SoF.
    With the 1 Thess 4:15-17 prophecy, we do not agree the timing or the destination of those who will be caught up. The plain statement is that it happens when Jesus leaves heaven to Return to earth for His Millennium reign and those of His people who remain alive, will meet Him, then be with Him. On earth.
    Heaven is only mentioned there, as the place Jesus comes from.

    I do see Revelation 14:14-20 as two events, but only 24 hours apart.
    The first will be the powerful Electro-Magnetic Pulse of a CME explosion on the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26a This will destroy the armies and missiles attacking Israel. Psalms 7:12-16, Psalms 83, Psalms 11:4-6, Revelation 6:12-17, +
    Then when the main mass of superheated hydrogen arrives, it will devastate the world. Plenty of Bible prophecy confirms this scenario; how people will be terrified as the sky darkens and the moon glows bright red, etc. Jeremiah 6:24-26, Ezekiel 7:17, Isaiah 13:9-13

    Your separation of the Father and Son, is unbiblical: They are ONE
    I agree that the two events in Rev 14:14-20 are in very quick succession. And there may indeed be a CME somewhere in those events. But I am also sure that the Reaping of the Son of Man is the Beheaded Souls. I understand that you see only one exiting of Heaven by Jesus. But this is not scriptural to me at all. Sorry.

    Your separation of the Father and Son, is unbiblical: They are ONE
    So by saying this, you are telling me that you believe that God Himself left Heaven to do His ministry on earth, then God died, and went back to heaven to sit with Himself in the heavens? Or am I not getting what you mean?

    Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

    If God lasts from everlasting to everlasting, HE CAN NOT DIE. However, if He sends His Son, He CAN DIE.

    If the Son is literally the Father, then how did this happen?

    Matt 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Did Jesus throw His voice up into Heaven?

    Before you get all excited, I do believe Jesus IS God, but I believe HE IS NOT the Father. I believe the Father is IN HIM, and He is in the Father. Yet, the Father was Still in Heaven while the Son was on earth, and now Jesus sits at his right hand side.

    Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

    If you are joining the Father and the Son as One PHYSICAL BEING, that is NOT biblical. (and I provided Scripture... You might try that with me... I understand better that way.)

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    I agree that the two events in Rev 14:14-20 are in very quick succession. And there may indeed be a CME somewhere in those events. But I am also sure that the Reaping of the Son of Man is the Beheaded Souls. I understand that you see only one exiting of Heaven by Jesus. But this is not scriptural to me at all. Sorry.



    So by saying this, you are telling me that you believe that God Himself left Heaven to do His ministry on earth, then God died, and went back to heaven to sit with Himself in the heavens? Or am I not getting what you mean?

    Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

    If God lasts from everlasting to everlasting, HE CAN NOT DIE. However, if He sends His Son, He CAN DIE.

    If the Son is literally the Father, then how did this happen?

    Matt 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Did Jesus throw His voice up into Heaven?

    Before you get all excited, I do believe Jesus IS God, but I believe HE IS NOT the Father. I believe the Father is IN HIM, and He is in the Father. Yet, the Father was Still in Heaven while the Son was on earth, and now Jesus sits at his right hand side.

    Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

    If you are joining the Father and the Son as One PHYSICAL BEING, that is NOT biblical. (and I provided Scripture... You might try that with me... I understand better that way.)
    Zechariah 14:1-2 is proof that the Seals are Gods Wrath also.

    Zechariah 12:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle (This is the First Seal, the Anti-Christ and many nations conquer Jerusalem, then the Anti-Christ becomes the BEAST for 42 Months); and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (FIRST SEAL)

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    3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations (Rev. 16:19), as when he fought in the day of battle.

    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, (Rev. 16:18) which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    So Zechariah 14:1-2 is the SEALS being opened and Zechariah 14:3-4 is the SEVENTH VIAL being poured out.............

    That means that the Wrath of God starts with the very FIRST SEAL, just like I have always stated it was.

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    SoF, we are both right, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are separate entities, but One in Mind and Purpose.
    The Trinity is a difficult concept for us all and one our minds can never fully understand.

    Rev Man, I agree that all the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are the wrath and Judgements of God. Against the godless and His enemies.
    Satan's wrath will be against the Christians, as we see in Revelation 12:17, Rev 13:7 This truth destroys the rapture to heaven theory.

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Zechariah 14:1-2 is proof that the Seals are Gods Wrath also.

    Zechariah 12:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    2 For[B] I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle (This is the First Seal, the Anti-Christ and many nations conquer Jerusalem, then the Anti-Christ becomes the BEAST for 42 Months/B]; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (FIRST SEAL)

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    3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations Rev. 16:19), as when he fought in the day of battle.

    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, Rev. 16:18) which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    So Zechariah 14:1-2 is the SEALS being opened and Zechariah 14:3-4 is the SEVENTH VIAL being poured out.............

    That means that the Wrath of God starts with the very FIRST SEAL, just like I have always stated it was.
    So, Revelation Man, I agree with you that Zech 14:1-2 is certainly introduced in Rev 6. But verse i says the Day of the Lord "IS COMING" (has not arrived yet, but is on the way...) So then to say that the opening of the 1st Seal is the Start of the Day of Wrath is incorrect unless you can show that the city is surrounded and Death comes upon them at the beginning of the Chapter. I can prove that the city is not surrounded until after the 3rd Seal and "the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city" (Zech 14:3a) is displayed as part of the 4th Seal into the fifth. Then at the 6th Seal, the 6th Seal representing Zech 14:6. So then Zech 14:3b "The Lord WILL GO out" means (future tense) after the events on the mount of Olives and saving the people (at a later date). I am beginning to understand that indeed Christ will come down onto the earth to fulfill Zech 14 both IN His Coming "appearing in the clouds" (Sixth Seal) AND IN His "return on the white horse." (After the 7 bowls OF wrath).

    SO then I must say that the Day of the Lord is more than one day. It is AN EVENT that STARTS with the "wrath of the Lamb" at the Sounding of the first of the 7 Trumpets and Lasts until Christ returns on the White Horse to finish up in Armageddon.

    I am not sure then if we agree totally, but I think we agree mostly...

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    SoF, we are both right, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are separate entities, but One in Mind and Purpose.
    The Trinity is a difficult concept for us all and one our minds can never fully understand.

    Rev Man, I agree that all the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are the wrath and Judgements of God. Satan's wrath will be against the Christians, as we see in Revelation 12:17, Rev 13:7
    This truth destroys the rapture to heaven theory.
    Agreed Keraz, It is hard from our human flesh to grasp such a HUGE concept.

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all arrogant evildoers will be as stubble, they will be destroyed in a fiery blaze.
    Psalm 11:4-6 The Lord is in heaven, raining fiery coals upon the wicked.
    Hebrews 10:27... a terrifying judgement of fire, that will consume God’s enemies.
    2 Thess. 1:6-9 It is just that God should send affliction on those who afflict you, when the Lord is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in blazing fire. He will punish those who refuse to acknowledge or obey God. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, cut off from the Lord. Isaiah 10:17
    Isaiah 30:26-30 On the Day the Lord saves His people, the sun will shine with 7 times its normal strength and the Lord will make His voice heard in majesty, His arm descending in fierce anger with devouring flames of fire, amid rain and hail storms.
    Psalm 144:5-6 Lord part the heavens, make lightning flashes far and wide.
    Isaiah 34:5 For My sword appears in the heavens, it descends in judgement.
    Isaiah 66:15-17 The Lord is coming in fire, like a whirlwind, He will judge with fire. His sword will test mankind, many will be slain by Him.
    Isaiah 29:5-6 Yet, the horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, fly away like chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord, with storms, earthquakes and a flame of devouring fire.

    Isaiah 9:18-19 The Land is scorched by the Lord, the people are fuel for the fire.
    Deut 32:41-43 I will sharpen My flashing sword and take vengeance on those who hate Me. Rejoice, you heavens the Lord will avenge His people and cleanse their Land.
    Isaiah 33:14 Sinners in Zion quake with terror- can any live in this devouring fire?
    Jeremiah 21:14 I shall punish Judah as they deserve, I shall set fire to your scrubland.
    Ezekiel 20:45-48 Prophesy to the scrubland of the Negev, I am about to kindle a fire in you- it will consume everything flammable. From the Negev, northward, everyone will be scorched by it. Reference: REB, NIV. Verses abridged.

    All of these prophecies describe an event that cannot be reconciled with the Return of Jesus. At that time, He destroys the armies of the Anti-Christ, by the Sword of His Word. Zechariah 14:3, Revelation 19:15 & 21 They do not match the “sheep and goat” judgement in Matthew 25:31-46.
    Also, at the end of the Millennium, the armies of the nations again attack – Rev. 20:7-10, but the context of the above passages rules out their application to that event.

    We see, in Deuteronomy 32:34-43, that this judgement will cleanse the Land.
    Many verses tell of a fire judgement upon Judah [the Jews] and the surrounding enemies, this will not be a nuclear exchange, as that would pollute the Land.
    “Flames of devouring fire”– “fire in the Negev”- “arrows like lightning”- “consuming fire,” etc, all describe what would happen if a Coronal Mass Ejection [C.M.E.] struck the Middle East. The resulting population clearance, Ezekiel 30:1-5, will allow the fulfilment of the many prophecies which say how all the faithful Christian will gather and settle there. These events will disrupt the world economy and set the stage for the Anti Christ.

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    So, Revelation Man, I agree with you that Zech 14:1-2 is certainly introduced in Rev 6. But verse i says the Day of the Lord "IS COMING" (has not arrived yet, but is on the way...) So then to say that the opening of the 1st Seal is the Start of the Day of Wrath is incorrect unless you can show that the city is surrounded and Death comes upon them at the beginning of the Chapter. I can prove that the city is not surrounded until after the 3rd Seal and "the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city" (Zech 14:3a) is displayed as part of the 4th Seal into the fifth. Then at the 6th Seal, the 6th Seal representing Zech 14:6. So then Zech 14:3b "The Lord WILL GO out" means (future tense) after the events on the mount of Olives and saving the people (at a later date). I am beginning to understand that indeed Christ will come down onto the earth to fulfill Zech 14 both IN His Coming "appearing in the clouds" (Sixth Seal) AND IN His "return on the white horse." (After the 7 bowls OF wrath).

    SO then I must say that the Day of the Lord is more than one day. It is AN EVENT that STARTS with the "wrath of the Lamb" at the Sounding of the first of the 7 Trumpets and Lasts until Christ returns on the White Horse to finish up in Armageddon.

    I am not sure then if we agree totally, but I think we agree mostly...
    What? Its very clear, it is speaking about Jerusalem FALLING...........Zechariah 12:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, AND thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    The Day of the Lord COMETH means Comes. Action verb. Not is Coming....


    #0935 בּוֹא bow' {bo}

    a primitive root; TWOT - 212; v
    —Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    1) to go in, enter, come, go, come in
    1a) (Qal)
    1a1) to enter, come in
    1a2) to come
    1a2a) to come with
    1a2b) to come upon, fall or light upon, attack (enemy)
    1a2c) to come to pass

    —Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)


    It doesn't mean it is soon to come IMHO, it is speaking about an action that is happening at the time the verse is speaking about, and this is the Result. (BELOW)

    Zechariah 12:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    The Day of the Lord is meshed with the City FALLING !! The FIRST SEAL is the Anti-Christ coming forth, of course the other Seals are at the same time frame. The Peace is taken from the earth, Starvation/Famines, deaths are all a part of the First 2 verses of Zechariah 14. But Zechariah 14:3 is the SEVENTH VIAL. The Hebrew says YAHWE goes forth to fight those Nations. Well we see that happens at the Sixth and Seventh Vials. Half the city will be captured, the other half will be the ones that Flee unto the Wilderness. The Fourth Seal is those that the Anti-Christ/Beast kill via wars/starvation's etc. The 5th Seal is the Dead Martyrs from the Tribulation period.

    I see where you get that idea about Zechariah 14:6 but you forget that the Sixth Seal and the Trumpets bring forth Judgments in 1/3's, but the Seven Vials bring forth the EXACT SAME JUDGMENTS in full. For instance in the Trumpets a 1/3 of the waters are poisoned, a 1/3 of the ships are destroyed, a 1/3 of the Sea Creatures die, but in the Seven Vials all of the ships are destroyed, all of the waters are poisoned, and all of the Sea Creature die !! Thus this DARKNESS you speak of is likewise duplicated, but the Kingdom is TOTALLY DARK.

    Rev. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

    So why do you assume Zechariah 14:6 is a Seal when a Vial causes TOTAL DARKNESS?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OK, so we have differences that could just be minutia differences, I agree, but I wanted to point out that the Vials duplicate most of the Seals, but with far more INTENSITY, even the Earthquake in Seal #6 gets more intense each time, in the Sixth Trumpet or 2nd Woe a GREATER Earthquake happens, then in Vial number Seven the GREATEST EVER Earthquake comes. Everything in the Trumpets is multiplied in the Vial Judgments.

    I agree it starts with the Wrath of the Lamb, but the Wrath of the Lamb is EVERY SEAL, God is symmetrical, He does not start things in the middle. The people in Rev. ch. 6 who decry the Wrath of the Lamb only understand what's happening at the 6th Seal because its a supernatural event as described in Joel, Matthew 24 and in Rev. ch. 6. But the Seals are RELEASED onto mankind by Jesus Christ himself, its Judgment brother.

    What gives us the biggest clue as to how long the Day of the Lord is...........IS WHAT? The Very timeline God keeps repeating..........42 Months..........1260 Days......... A Time, times and a 1/2 time. And in Dan. 9:27 in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK.

    So the BEAST Rules for 42 Months? That means he must come forth to Conquer in the MIDDLE of the Week, that means Israel must be protected for 1260 Days. it all jibes. That means everything is happening in Rev. ch. 6.

    Ch. 12, 13, 17 and 18.

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    What? Its very clear, it is speaking about Jerusalem FALLING...........Zechariah 12:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, AND thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    The Day of the Lord COMETH means Comes. Action verb. Not is Coming....


    #0935 בּוֹא bow' {bo}

    a primitive root; TWOT - 212; v
    —Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    1) to go in, enter, come, go, come in
    1a) (Qal)
    1a1) to enter, come in
    1a2) to come
    1a2a) to come with
    1a2b) to come upon, fall or light upon, attack (enemy)
    1a2c) to come to pass

    —Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)


    It doesn't mean it is soon to come IMHO, it is speaking about an action that is happening at the time the verse is speaking about, and this is the Result. (BELOW)

    Zechariah 12:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    The Day of the Lord is meshed with the City FALLING !! The FIRST SEAL is the Anti-Christ coming forth, of course the other Seals are at the same time frame. The Peace is taken from the earth, Starvation/Famines, deaths are all a part of the First 2 verses of Zechariah 14. But Zechariah 14:3 is the SEVENTH VIAL. The Hebrew says YAHWE goes forth to fight those Nations. Well we see that happens at the Sixth and Seventh Vials. Half the city will be captured, the other half will be the ones that Flee unto the Wilderness. The Fourth Seal is those that the Anti-Christ/Beast kill via wars/starvation's etc. The 5th Seal is the Dead Martyrs from the Tribulation period.

    I see where you get that idea about Zechariah 14:6 but you forget that the Sixth Seal and the Trumpets bring forth Judgments in 1/3's, but the Seven Vials bring forth the EXACT SAME JUDGMENTS in full. For instance in the Trumpets a 1/3 of the waters are poisoned, a 1/3 of the ships are destroyed, a 1/3 of the Sea Creatures die, but in the Seven Vials all of the ships are destroyed, all of the waters are poisoned, and all of the Sea Creature die !! Thus this DARKNESS you speak of is likewise duplicated, but the Kingdom is TOTALLY DARK.

    Rev. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

    So why do you assume Zechariah 14:6 is a Seal when a Vial causes TOTAL DARKNESS?

    Zech 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

    OK, I see where you get that. If it is, then so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    OK, so we have differences that could just be minutia differences, I agree, but I wanted to point out that the Vials duplicate most of the Seals, but with far more INTENSITY, even the Earthquake in Seal #6 gets more intense each time, in the Sixth Trumpet or 2nd Woe a GREATER Earthquake happens, then in Vial number Seven the GREATEST EVER Earthquake comes. Everything in the Trumpets is multiplied in the Vial Judgments.

    I agree it starts with the Wrath of the Lamb, but the Wrath of the Lamb is EVERY SEAL, God is symmetrical, He does not start things in the middle. The people in Rev. ch. 6 who decry the Wrath of the Lamb only understand what's happening at the 6th Seal because its a supernatural event as described in Joel, Matthew 24 and in Rev. ch. 6. But the Seals are RELEASED onto mankind by Jesus Christ himself, its Judgment brother.

    What gives us the biggest clue as to how long the Day of the Lord is...........IS WHAT? The Very timeline God keeps repeating..........42 Months..........1260 Days......... A Time, times and a 1/2 time. And in Dan. 9:27 in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK.

    So the BEAST Rules for 42 Months? That means he must come forth to Conquer in the MIDDLE of the Week, that means Israel must be protected for 1260 Days. it all jibes. That means everything is happening in Rev. ch. 6.

    Ch. 12, 13, 17 and 18.
    OK, if it is, so shall it be. God bless you brother.

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    Joel 1:15 The day is near, the Day of the Lord it comes as a mighty destruction from Almighty God.
    Joel 2:1-5 Blow the trumpet in Israel, sound the alarm in Jerusalem. Let all who live in the Land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming – it is close at hand. A Day of darkness and clouds. Like the dawn, an innumerable host comes across the land, such as never was and will never be again. A fire goes before them, leaving wasteland behind. With a great noise they leap mountains and consume everything to stubble.
    Joel 2:6-11 At the sight of them, all the nations are in anguish. They march in line, none swerving against any defense. They rush upon cities and enter houses through the windows. The earth quakes and the sky is darkened. The Lord thunders at the head of His army, beyond number are those who obey His command. The Day of the Lord is great and dreadful, who can endure it?
    Joel 1:6-12 & 19-20 this invading host destroys trees and crops. Fire has burnt the pastures and trees. All the streams have dried up.

    The Day of the Lord, as described by Joel is not Armageddon, at the Return of Jesus or at the Great White Throne judgement. It is plainly an event before then, also prophesied in Isaiah 2:12-21, Revelation 6:12-17, Ezekiel 7:2-9: + over other 100 times.
    Joel uses the metaphor of an army to describe how this destruction moves across the earth as it rotates- ‘with the dawn’. As nations turn to face the sun, the effects of a Coronal Mass Ejection- sunstrike will hit them. Initially, it will strike the earth as a light flash [Isaiah 30:26a] within 8 minutes, then the highly charged cosmic particles arrive about 24 hours later, causing immense destruction and deaths. Fires and volcanic eruptions will result in smoke and ash clouds, covering the sky. Isaiah 29:5-6, Psalms 18:7-15, Jeremiah 4:23-28
    Judah [the current State of Israel] is affected- Hosea 8:14, Eze. 20:45-48, Isa 4:3-4.
    And the Lord’s enemies: Isaiah 22:5-14, Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 63:1-6 plus many others.
    Deuteronomy 32:34-35 says how He will act when His enemies ‘foot will slip”. That is they make a mistake. That mistake will be their instigating an attack against Israel.

    Malachi 4:1-3 Surely the day of the Lord is coming, it will burn like a furnace. All the evildoers will be as stubble, they will be burned up. They will be ashes under your feet. But for you, who revere My Name, righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. You will rejoice and prevail over the wicked on the Day that I act against them.
    THEN the many prophecies that describe the migration of all true believers into the Promised Land will come to pass. This great exodus of His Christian people will fulfil the promises that God made to the Patriarchs and they will, at last be a people that will be a ‘light to the nations’. They will prepare themselves and the world for the Return of Jesus. Ezekiel 35:11-30, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Deuteronomy 30:1-10, Zechariah 10:6-12, Isaiah 46:27-28, Ezekiel 39:25-29, Zephaniah 10:6-12
    That Jesus is not yet present at this time, is clear from the many verses saying: ‘You will know that I am the Lord, when... And how it ‘will be as in the days of Egypt’.
    Eze. 14:6-11, Eze 39:22, Joel 2:27, Isa 41:20. Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged

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    Re: The Lord's Day of Vengeance and Wrath

    The Lords fiery judgement on the Middle East:
    Isaiah 29:1-2 Woe to you Ariel! Ariel, the city where David settled. The years roll on and you carry out your festivals. Yet, I shall reduce Ariel to dire straits. There will be suffering and sorrow, when I make her My fire altar.
    Ariel – is a pun on the Hebrew word, ‘har’el’ = the Temple burnt offering altar. In this prophecy, it refers to Jerusalem and all the State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:1-14, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14

    Isaiah 29:3-4 I will encompass you and besiege you with the visitation of My fiery judgement. You will be brought low, you will hide underground, your voice will whisper out of the earth.
    The Lord’s judgement/punishment of the nations, by fire from God’s storehouse, Deuteronomy 32:22,34-35,41-43, will be an explosion on the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17
    Joel 2:1-11 Sound the alarm! For the Day of the Lord’s wrath is coming. As the sun rises, a vast host will appear, the like has never been known. It advances in a devouring fire, behind is a leaping flame that leaves a desolate wasteland. Nothing can escape it, nothing can stop it and as it strikes, the earth quakes and the heavens thunder. Who can survive that dark and terrible Day?

    The survivors in Jerusalem will shelter in underground bunkers. Isaiah 31:5, Isaiah 6:13, Isaiah 37:31-32

    Isaiah 29:5-8 But, your enemies will become like dust, those ruthless hordes, like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord Almighty, with earthquakes, thunder, storms and a blaze of devouring fire. All the nations warring against Mt Zion, will vanish, as a dream, like one who is hungry or thirsty; then wakes to find himself empty, so it will be with all those nations attacking Israel. Malachi 4:3
    The fire judgement on the Middle East, striking ‘in an instant’, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection: a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude and is the next prophesied event we can expect, it is the Day that will ‘come as a thief’, sudden and unexpectedly. Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 10:17 It is quite a different event to what is described about the attack and destruction of Gog or of Armageddon, both to come later, respectively.
    Psalm 83:13-18, Isaiah 34:5, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 30, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18

    The regeneration of the Middle East: Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:13-15
    Isaiah 29:17-21 In a very short time, the Land will be made prosperous again. On that Day, the deaf will hear and the blind will see and the lowly and poor will exult in the Holy One of Israel. The ruthless and evil peoples will be gone, all who practice falsehood will be cut down. Isaiah 66:12-17, Psalms 107:1-43, Jeremiah 33:12-13

    Isaiah 29:22-23 Therefore, these are the words of the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, about the House of Jacob: [now: every true Christian believer] This is no time for you to be ashamed, no time to be frightened, for his descendants will praise My Name, when they see what I have done for them. They will stand in awe of the Holy God of Israel. Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses condensed.

    Christian Israelites, all those whose names are written in the Book, Malachi 3:16-18, be they descendants of Jacob or grafted in, will be gathered into the Land, ”in a very short time” after the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations Ezekiel 20: 34-38, Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 30:18-24, Rev 7:9

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