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Thread: Salvation from what?

  1. #16
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    I think his point hit the mark.

    We are not saved from hell.

    We are saved from sin.



    Sin puts us in hell. A person just needs to boil off the excess to find any answer.
    Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

    I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

    Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
    Matt 25:46

    For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
    and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    1 Tim 6:10

  2. #17
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Protective Angel View Post
    I think his point hit the mark.

    We are not saved from hell.

    We are saved from sin.



    Sin puts us in hell. A person just needs to boil off the excess to find any answer.
    Because of current Christian doctrine that says one is saved and goes to heaven, there is, by default, no need for anything else except to make it into heaven. But if the Councils of the Almighty cannot be thwarted, and He will, inevitably, reach His goals, the we must turn to Genesis 1:26-28 to find the bottom line in God's dealing with men. It is this. That men in God's IMAGE and LIKENESS subdue and rule the earth, sea and sky, and all that is in them. The gospel, or literally "good message or report" is the message that for fallen, depraved, alienated and condemned men, there is a way to be restored to Christ's IMAGE and LIKENESS in order to be found worthy of God's original plan. Gehenna, which is used to depict the Lake of Fire, comes from the Valley of Hinnom, a valley on the south side of Jerusalem where (1) fires burn continually to consume the rubbish of the city, and (2) where the Canaanites, and later the Israelites, sacrificed their children to the fire-god Molech by causing them to walk alive into fires. The connotation is that one is so close to the "City of the Great King", but found useless for the intended task and must be burned.

    So also then is the Greek word we render with "Perdition". It does not mean annihilation. It means that you have been found unfit for the intended purpose. The Titanic is a ship intended for sailing ON the waves of the sea. Now she is still a ship but languished BELOW the waves of the sea. The Titanic is in perdition. So also the "wineskins" of Luke 5:37. They are still wineskins but they are "perished". Any man who does not end up in the IMAGE and LIKENESS of God, and who does not partake of subduing and ruling the earth, has missed God's plan and can be expected to experience the universal trashheap - the Valley of Hinnom's "Gehenna". Thus, the gospel should point to man's RESTORATION Firstly, and the CONSEQUENCES of no restoration Secondly.

    The Evangelist, who rightly operates OUTSIDE the Church in bringing the heathen to God, presents the "Good Report" that men can be restored, and that the worst and immovable stumbling block of their sin and sins has been overcome. But once a Christian, the THEME INSIDE THE CHURCH should not primarily be how we avoided perdition, but how to get a fallen, depraved, fleshly man to grow into the IMAGE and LIKENESS of God so that he is fit to be chosen to subdue and rule this earth. That is, the main theme of the Church should SANCTIFICATION. The Lake of Fire passes by the Christian as of no interest since he/she cannot go there because of God accepting Christ's work. The theme of the Church-life should be how we deal with, and overcome, the innate tendency to sin, for it is this sin AFTER CONVERSION that will decide at Christ's Judgement Seat whether we are to be co-kings with Him when He sets up His government on earth, or whether we are unfit for the intended purpose.

    It is this that I believe brother Pink was getting at. As a test, let all the readers think back and count the messages they have heard on Transformation - the "transformation" from a innately wicked person to one in Christ's image and likeness. That is, how many messages do the Churches give on how ...
    • The spirit is regenerated to give the person the divine life to enable Christ's image (2nd Pet.1:3-4)
    • The soul is transformed from self-seeking to seeking the will of God (Rom.8:29; 2nd Cor.3:18; Col.3:10)
    • The body is turned from corruption to incorruption (Rom.8:23)
    Last edited by Walls; Nov 24th 2017 at 03:16 PM. Reason: grammar

  3. #18
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    excellent.

    any advice on how to go about Sanctification?
    Welcome to The Cutting Edge...
    "But none of the wicked shall understand [that the End of the Age is upon them]." [Daniel 12:10b]


    Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

    2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.










  4. #19
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by John777 View Post
    excellent.

    any advice on how to go about Sanctification?
    Sanctification occurs by four things.
    1. The Christian must crucify his/her FLESH daily (Matt.10:38; Mk.8:34; Lk.9:23). The flesh is irreparable. It is the constant enemy of both the Christian and the Holy Spirit (Gal.5:17). It has no future and must be denied. This does not mean asceticism as is practiced in the Roman Catholic Church and other occultist religions. It means that when the flesh makes illegal demands, it is to be denied with all malice on the part of the Christian.
    2. The Christian must deny the SOUL (Matt.16:24; Mk.8:34; Lk.9:23). The soul of a man is made of his mind, his emotions and his will. Before conversion they have been trained for the man's whole life to make decisions for the flesh. An example should suffice. In the New Testament age we are commanded to forgive offenses directed at ourselves. This is very hard for a sense of justice is innate in men, even criminals. Because God is extending the hand of reconciliation ONLY in the New Testament age, we, His testimony, must extend the hand of reconciliation to our enemies. This is one of the top ways to deny the soul. The mind registers the offense, the emotions boil and the will decides on vengeance. But our Lord Jesus has asked His disciples to follow His path of reconciling God's enemies by deferring justice. It needs a huge portion of self-denial to forgive, especially when vengeance is justified.
    3. The Christian will undergo trials and suffering. Trials and suffering achieve two things. (1) They make the Christian malleable. God cannot do anything with a hardened heart. Trials and suffering break the Christians hard heart. The seed of the Sower must fall on plowed ground. (2) They allow us to be followers of Christ, and KNOW experientially Him Who suffered more than any man (Phil.3:10).
    4. The Christian must daily eat God's Word (Jn.17:17; Eph.5:26; 1st Tim.4:5). It is not enough to suffer only, for suffering might chase out old things, but the man must REPLACE the old things that are purged with fire with something divine and nourishing. This is God's Word. By regularly reading God's Word out aloud (for salvation is by the mouth - Rom.10:9, and both the Tree of Life and the Lamb were to be eaten of), the divine LIFE to enable us to act and think like Christ is ADDED TO US.

    This is a very brief summary, but I hope it helps.

  5. #20

    Re: Salvation from what?

    Well, it makes perfect sense.

    We can avoid sinning, but we cannot avoid Hell, this means that indeed salvation saves us from Hell.

    Sins lead us to Hell, and in order to avoid Hell, first thing for us to do is to stop sinning, repent before GOD, ask for forgiveness, and only then if GOD decided to grant His salvation, He will save us from Hell, because we no longer sin.

    Is that requires a genius to figure it out?

  6. #21
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by alex2165 View Post
    Well, it makes perfect sense.

    We can avoid sinning, but we cannot avoid Hell, this means that indeed salvation saves us from Hell.

    Sins lead us to Hell, and in order to avoid Hell, first thing for us to do is to stop sinning, repent before GOD, ask for forgiveness, and only then if GOD decided to grant His salvation, He will save us from Hell, because we no longer sin.

    Is that requires a genius to figure it out?
    So you are saying that the solution to our sin problem is that we become sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (exactly like Jesus) and only then the Lord will be able to save us?
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  7. #22

    Re: Salvation from what?

    To Mailman.

    Where in my post you saw this suggestion that we are all shall be 100% perfect? Do not make things up.

    Our perfection in GOD grows according to our knowledge and understanding of the Bible.


    Matthew 5.48
    48.”Therefore, you are to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect."


    Matthew 19.21
    21.Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect (NRSV), go, sell your possessions and gave the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in Heaven, then come follow Me.”


    2Corinthians 12.9
    9.but He said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, power is made perfect in weakness.’


    Hebrews 12.23
    23.to the general assembly and church of the First-Born (Jesus Christ) who are enrolled in Heaven, and to GOD - the Judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,


    And not only perfection but also and our holiness. And more we obtain knowledge and understanding of the Word of GOD the more perfection and holiness we have, and more closely we getting to the Kingdom of GOD, and more distancing themselves from the Hell.


    Leviticus 11.44-45
    Holiness of the Lord and His People.
    44."I am the Lord your GOD, sanctify yourselves, therefore and be holy, I am Holy. You shall not define yourselves with any swarming creature that moves on the Earth.
    45.For I am the Lord Who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be your GOD, you shall be holy, for I am Holy."

    Leviticus 19.2
    2."Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them: 'You shall be holy, for I the Lord your GOD, am Holy."

    Leviticus 20.7.26
    Holiness of the Lord and His People.
    7."Concecrate yourselves, therefore and be holly. I am the Lord your GOD.
    26.You shall be holy to Me. I am the Lord holy, and I have separated you from the other peoples to be Mine."

    Leviticus 21.6-8
    Holiness of the Priests.
    6."They shall be holy to their GOD and not profane the name of their GOD, for they offer the Lord's offerings by fire, the food of their GOD, therefore they shall be holy.
    7.They shall not marry a prostitute or a woman who has been defined, neither shall they marry a woman divorced from her husband. They are holy to their GOD, (Ezekiel 44.22)
    8.and you shall treat them as holy since they offer the food of your GOD, they shall be holy to you, for I the Lord, I Who sanctify you, Am holy."


    Here I presented only few examples out of many about perfection and holiness of men, or you still will argue that such qualities are impossible to achieve for a mortal men?

    Does GOD ever demanded from any man to do something impossible? Yes He does, but He also provide and help to achieve it.

  8. #23
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    People go to hell because they choose to abstain from relationship with a loving Father.

    They do not got to hell to pay for sin or to be punished.

  9. #24
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by alex2165 View Post
    To Mailman.

    Where in my post you saw this suggestion that we are all shall be 100% perfect? Do not make things up.
    I'm not making things up. It's obvious what you were saying in your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by alex2165 View Post
    Well, it makes perfect sense.

    We can avoid sinning, but we cannot avoid Hell, this means that indeed salvation saves us from Hell.

    Sins lead us to Hell, and in order to avoid Hell, first thing for us to do is to stop sinning, repent before GOD, ask for forgiveness, and only then if GOD decided to grant His salvation, He will save us from Hell, because we no longer sin.

    Is that requires a genius to figure it out?
    Do not make things up, huh?

    Our perfection in GOD grows according to our knowledge and understanding of the Bible.
    It's called "maturity," not absolute sinless perfection.

    Matthew 5.48
    48.”Therefore, you are to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect."

    Matthew 19.21
    21.Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect (NRSV), go, sell your possessions and gave the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in Heaven, then come follow Me.”

    2Corinthians 12.9
    9.but He said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, power is made perfect in weakness.’

    Hebrews 12.23
    23.to the general assembly and church of the First-Born (Jesus Christ) who are enrolled in Heaven, and to GOD - the Judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

    And not only perfection but also and our holiness. And more we obtain knowledge and understanding of the Word of GOD the more perfection and holiness we have, and more closely we getting to the Kingdom of GOD, and more distancing themselves from the Hell.

    Leviticus 11.44-45
    Holiness of the Lord and His People.
    44."I am the Lord your GOD, sanctify yourselves, therefore and be holy, I am Holy. You shall not define yourselves with any swarming creature that moves on the Earth.
    45.For I am the Lord Who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be your GOD, you shall be holy, for I am Holy."

    Leviticus 19.2
    2."Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them: 'You shall be holy, for I the Lord your GOD, am Holy."

    Leviticus 20.7.26
    Holiness of the Lord and His People.
    7."Concecrate yourselves, therefore and be holly. I am the Lord your GOD.
    26.You shall be holy to Me. I am the Lord holy, and I have separated you from the other peoples to be Mine."

    Leviticus 21.6-8
    Holiness of the Priests.
    6."They shall be holy to their GOD and not profane the name of their GOD, for they offer the Lord's offerings by fire, the food of their GOD, therefore they shall be holy.
    7.They shall not marry a prostitute or a woman who has been defined, neither shall they marry a woman divorced from her husband. They are holy to their GOD, (Ezekiel 44.22)
    8.and you shall treat them as holy since they offer the food of your GOD, they shall be holy to you, for I the Lord, I Who sanctify you, Am holy."

    Here I presented only few examples out of many about perfection and holiness of men, or you still will argue that such qualities are impossible to achieve for a mortal men?

    Does GOD ever demanded from any man to do something impossible? Yes He does, but He also provide and help to achieve it.
    The word "perfect" (teleioi) comes from telo, end, goal, limit. It can refer to the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father, yet the word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. I have often seen those who teach "sinless perfection" refer to Matthew 5:48 and they also abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection, yet Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been "practicing adultery." Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

    So absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect, flawless for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive towards. Set the bar high. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).

    In regards to holiness, I also hear those who teach "sinless perfection" quote such verses as Hebrews 12:14 - Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. Of course the implication is that if we are not "holy enough" (sinless and absolutely perfect) then we will not be saved and see the Lord. The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. To be "sanctified" is to be "set apart, made holy." Without justification, there is no sanctification. Our ongoing sanctification has no bearing on our justification. That is, even if we don't reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ.

    There is initial sanctification in which we are "made holy" in standing before God postionally in Christ, 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus.. Yet we also have progressive sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.

    So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness.
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  10. #25
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post


    I think Pink makes a very important point concerning evangelism.

    What say you?

    Thanks!

    ~Deut

    Luke 5
    31 Jesus answered and said to them, it is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.
    32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
    Well, I like what he says here.

    The veil was not ripped in two to bar the gates to hell but to open the way to the throne of God.

  11. #26
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Salvation is about one thing, to avoid death. Eternal life being the opposite of - death. Salvation is normally discussed by Paul as a matter of future tense. Rather than "have been saved" it is more accurate to say "are being saved".


    1 Corinthians 15:55-57 King James Version (KJV)

    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


    It is not that death "stings us" it is that sin stings us - to death. Sin leads to death.

    The victory is over the grave, which is death. Salvation, then, is about defeating death in the resurrection.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  12. #27
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbiKnife View Post
    People go to hell because they choose to abstain from relationship with a loving Father.

    They do not got to hell to pay for sin or to be punished.
    Is hell not " the wrath to come" in 1 Thes. 1 vs 10 ? That begs the question "who's wrath" and then "on who will it be poured out on ?"

  13. #28
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Is hell not " the wrath to come" in 1 Thes. 1 vs 10 ? That begs the question "who's wrath" and then "on who will it be poured out on ?"
    No, he'll is not the wrath to come.

    God's wrath has already been poured out on Jesus.

  14. #29
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabbiKnife View Post
    No, he'll is not the wrath to come.

    God's wrath has already been poured out on Jesus.
    His wrath was satisfied. So what is the wrath to come ?

  15. #30
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    Re: Salvation from what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    His wrath was satisfied. So what is the wrath to come ?
    Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD

    See 1 Thess 2... he spells it out

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