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Thread: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

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    7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Many people do not realise that the main source of the 7 year tribulation view is Daniel 9:27. Outside of that verse, the bible consistently refers to just 3.5 years which start with an abomination, and end with the end of the world (second coming). This 3.5 year period is referred to often in Daniel and Revelation. After extensive study into the original language and history there is no reason to see a 7 year tribulation period in Daniel 9:27, which refers only to a future 3.5 year period, the wording favors an historical interpretation of the first half of the seven year period:
    25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed one the ruler comes (JESUS of Galilee), there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the anointed one (JESUS of Galilee) will be put to death and will have nothing. The people (JEWS of Galilee) of the ruler who will come (Jesus of Galilee) will shachath (RUIN) the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood (ROMANS THEN DESTROY JERUSALEM QUICKLY): War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. (JERUSALEM IS DESOLATED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS) 27 He (JESUS) will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to (HIS LIFE OF SACRIFICE AND OFFERING) sacrifice and offering (CRUCIFIXION). And at the temple will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him (THE ANTICHRIST).

    So we see two characters in Daniel 9:27, a fact that people miss because the two favorite translations are the NIV and the KJV which describe one character but most other translations confirm two characters. This two character view is consistent with the fact that the antichrist is described as having a future 42 months of authority according to Rev 13, NOT 7 years. This view is also consistent with the fact that Jesus confirmed God's promise to send Messiah to the Jews and then ministered for 3.5 years before putting an end to his life of sacrifice and offering. This two character view is also consistent with the fact that the prince in verse 26 is Jesus, NOT some Roman antichrist which doesn't fit context/grammar of v25/26. There is no reason to see any antichrist confirming a covenant if Jesus already confirmed a great covenant for 3.5 years of his ministry.

    Conclusion: The Tribulation is just 3.5 years long, NOT seven years.
    Last edited by DurbanDude; Oct 12th 2017 at 10:30 AM.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Many people do not realise that the main source of the 7 year tribulation view is Daniel 9:27. Outside of that verse, the bible consistently refers to just 3.5 years which start with an abomination, and end with the end of the world (second coming). This 3.5 year period is referred to often in Daniel and Revelation. After extensive study into the original language and history there is no reason to see a 7 year tribulation period in Daniel 9:27, which refers only to a future 3.5 year period, the wording favors an historical interpretation of the first half of the seven year period:
    25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed one the ruler comes (JESUS of Galilee), there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the anointed one (JESUS of Galilee) will be put to death and will have nothing. The people (JEWS of Galilee) of the ruler who will come (Jesus of Galilee) will shachath (RUIN) the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood (ROMANS THEN DESTROY JERUSALEM QUICKLY): War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. (JERUSALEM IS DESOLATED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS) 27 He (JESUS) will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to (HIS LIFE OF SACRIFICE AND OFFERING) sacrifice and offering (CRUCIFIXION). And at the temple will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him (THE ANTICHRIST).

    So we see two characters in Daniel 9:27, a fact that people miss because the two favorite translations are the NIV and the KJV which describe one character but most other translations confirm two characters. This two character view is consistent with the fact that the antichrist is described as having a future 42 months of authority, NOT 7 years according to Rev 13. This view is also consistent with the fact that Jesus confirmed God's promise to send Messiah to the Jews and then ministered for 3.5 years before putting an end to his life of sacrifice and offering. There is no reason to see any antichrist confirming a covenant if Jesus already confirmed a great covenant for 3.5 years of his ministry.
    Rev 13 only gives the Antichrist 42 months of power. Why would people believe it gives him seven? The Holy Spirit did not give this son of God that interpretation... And if Daniel 9:27's 70th Week makes Jesus a liar, then we are all going to burn in the lake of fire for eternity... Brother, we need to be careful with what we teach...

    Thus sayeth the Lord: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand The Abomination of Desolation did not happen in (what some would indicate a "sudden" event) what did occur over many days in the events of 70 AD... and in what "standing" was that "abomination"? So then brother, do you have ears to hear?

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    Rev 13 only gives the Antichrist 42 months of power. Why would people believe it gives him seven? The Holy Spirit did not give this son of God that interpretation... And if Daniel 9:27's 70th Week makes Jesus a liar, then we are all going to burn in the lake of fire for eternity... Brother, we need to be careful with what we teach...

    Thus sayeth the Lord: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand The Abomination of Desolation did not happen in (what some would indicate a "sudden" event) what did occur over many days in the events of 70 AD... and in what "standing" was that "abomination"? So then brother, do you have ears to hear?
    Agreed, the antichrist has only 42 months of power, NOT seven years. Some claim that he makes a great covenant with the Jews earlier but nothing in the NT confirms such an antichrist covenant. Jesus however did confirm a covenant and did so for precisely 3.5 years until he ended his sacrifice with the shedding of blood at the crucifixion. And so Jesus fulfilled that first 3.5 years and we now await the 42 months of the rule of the antichrist as per Rev 13.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Agreed, the antichrist has only 42 months of power, NOT seven. Some claim that he makes a great covenant with the Jews earlier but nothing in the NT confirms such an antichrist covenant. Jesus however did confirm a covenant and did so for precisely 3.5 years until he ended his sacrifice with the shedding of blood at the crucifixion. And so Jesus fulfilled that first 3.5 years and we now await the 42 months of the rule of the antichrist as per Rev 13.
    This may be true that Jesus did confirm a covenant for 3.5 years. But this would then be the Heavenly version of the earthly thing to come. (a physical Parable that Christ presented for us... All of Christs actions that 3.5 years leading up to His death and resurrection was a foreshadowing of His 2nd coming.)

    We must understand that the covenant Daniel 9:27 is speaking of, is OF ITSELF not a bad covenant. And we must realize that the Antichrist HATES IT, so then it is a POSITIVE thing for the Glory of God.

    Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. 23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

    28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.


    The Antichrist will hate the Holy 7 year covenant so much that he will take out the author of that "bill" or "law", and then He will work behind the sceens to destroy it, culminating in the 3.5 year Mark where He makes his move:

    30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    So then, this individual IS NOT Jesus... It is the EVIL version of Him:

    Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before.


    Listen to the Word of the Lord.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post

    The Antichrist will hate the Holy 7 year covenant so much that he will take out the author of that "bill" or "law", and then He will work behind the sceens to destroy it, culminating in the 3.5 year Mark where He makes his move:
    Yes God promised to send a Messiah. Jesus fulfilled this covenant, his life on earth confirming that covenant between God and Israel of a promised Messiah

    Yes Satan hates this covenant between man and God, a Messiah to set us free. And during the final 3.5 years Satan will make his move against the people of the covenant, true Jews and Christians. The Jews will escape his clutches as per Rev 12. Christians will not, we will be persecuted for that half of a seven (42 months) as per Rev 12/Rev 13.

    As I said, there are TWO characters in Daniel 9:27, Jesus confirms the covenant. Antichrist sets up the abomination. Most translations confirm two characters there.
    Last edited by DurbanDude; Oct 9th 2017 at 03:31 PM. Reason: used the word Satan instead of antichrist

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Here's a few quotes from Josephus, the Jewish historian to show that it was the three Jewish rebels from the Galilee area who ruined Jerusalem and the temple area before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem:
    http://www.biblestudytools.com/histo...vius-josephus/ MURDERS, DARTS (WAR MACHINES)
    For Eleazar, the son of Simon, who made the first separation of the zealots from the people, and made them retire into the temple, appeared very angry at John's insolent attempts, which he made everyday upon the people; for this man never left off murdering; but the truth was, that he could not bear to submit to a tyrant who set up after him. So he being desirous of gaining the entire power and dominion to himself, revolted from John, and took to his assistance Judas the son of Chelcias, and Simon the son of Ezron, who were among the men of greatest power. There was also with him Hezekiah, the son of Chobar, a person of eminence. Each of these were followed by a great many of the zealots; these seized upon the inner court of the temple and laid their arms upon the holy gates, and over the holy fronts of that court. And because they had plenty of provisions, they were of good courage, for there was a great abundance of what was consecrated to sacred uses, and they scrupled not the making use of them; yet were they afraid, on account of their small number; and when they had laid up their arms there, they did not stir from the place they were in. Now as to John, what advantage he had above Eleazar in the multitude of his followers, the like disadvantage he had in the situation he was in, since he had his enemies over his head; and as he could not make any assault upon them without some terror, so was his anger too great to let them be at rest; nay, although he suffered more mischief from Eleazar and his party than he could inflict upon them, yet would he not leave off assaulting them, insomuch that there were continual sallies made one against another, as well as darts thrown at one another, and the temple was defiled every where with murders.
    But now the tyrant Simon, the son of Gioras, whom the people had invited in, out of the hopes they had of his assistance in the great distresses they were in, having in his power the upper city, and a great part of the lower, did now make more vehement assaults upon John and his party, because they were fought against from above also; yet was he beneath their situation when he attacked them, as they were beneath the attacks of the others above them. Whereby it came to pass that John did both receive and inflict great damage, and that easily, as he was fought against on both sides; and the same advantage that Eleazar and his party had over him, since he was beneath them, the same advantage had he, by his higher situation, over Simon. On which account he easily repelled the attacks that were made from beneath, by the weapons thrown from their hands only; but was obliged to repel those that threw their darts from the temple above him, by his engines of war; for he had such engines as threw darts, and javelins, and stones, and that in no small number, by which he did not only defend himself from such as fought against him, but slew moreover many of the priests, as they were about their sacred ministrations. For notwithstanding these men were mad with all sorts of impiety, yet did they still admit those that desired to offer their sacrifices, although they took care to search the people of their own country beforehand, and both suspected and watched them; while they were not so much afraid of strangers, who, although they had gotten leave of them, how cruel soever they were, to come into that court, were yet often destroyed by this sedition; for those darts that were thrown by the engines came with that force, that they went over all the buildings, and reached as far as the altar, and the temple itself, and fell upon the priests, and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth, to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and Barbarians, with their own blood; till the dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves. And now, "O must wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy intestine hatred! 'For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou long continue in being, after thou hadst been a sepulcher for the bodies of thy own people, and hadst made the holy house itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine.
    John was assaulted on both sides, he made his men turn about, throwing his darts upon those citizens that came up against him, from the cloisters he had in his possession, while he opposed those that attacked him from the temple by his engines of war. And if at any time he was freed from those that were above him, which happened frequently, from their being drunk and tired, he sallied out with a great number upon Simon and his party; and this he did always in such parts of the city as he could come at, till he set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all other provisions. The same thing was done by Simon, when, upon the other's retreat, he attacked the city also; as if they had, on purpose, done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power. Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides of it; and that almost all that corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years.
    It was Jesus own countrymen, Jews from the Galilee region that ruined the temple and the city before the Romans entered the city. The word "schachath" is used in the bible, often translated as "destroyed". but its correct meaning is to RUIN , perfectly fitting in with what these Jewish rebels from Galilee did to Jerusalem during the Jewish-Roman war. The prince of v25 is the same as the prince of verse 26, there is no reason in grammar to change princes from Jesus to a Roman prince, and there is no reason to change these princes due to history either.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Many people do not realise that the main source of the 7 year tribulation view is Daniel 9:27. Outside of that verse, the bible consistently refers to just 3.5 years which start with an abomination, and end with the end of the world (second coming). This 3.5 year period is referred to often in Daniel and Revelation. After extensive study into the original language and history there is no reason to see a 7 year tribulation period in Daniel 9:27, which refers only to a future 3.5 year period, the wording favors an historical interpretation of the first half of the seven year period:
    25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed one the ruler comes (JESUS of Galilee), there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the anointed one (JESUS of Galilee) will be put to death and will have nothing. The people (JEWS of Galilee) of the ruler who will come (Jesus of Galilee) will shachath (RUIN) the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood (ROMANS THEN DESTROY JERUSALEM QUICKLY): War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. (JERUSALEM IS DESOLATED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS) 27 He (JESUS) will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to (HIS LIFE OF SACRIFICE AND OFFERING) sacrifice and offering (CRUCIFIXION). And at the temple will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him (THE ANTICHRIST).

    So we see two characters in Daniel 9:27, a fact that people miss because the two favorite translations are the NIV and the KJV which describe one character but most other translations confirm two characters. This two character view is consistent with the fact that the antichrist is described as having a future 42 months of authority, NOT 7 years according to Rev 13. This view is also consistent with the fact that Jesus confirmed God's promise to send Messiah to the Jews and then ministered for 3.5 years before putting an end to his life of sacrifice and offering. There is no reason to see any antichrist confirming a covenant if Jesus already confirmed a great covenant for 3.5 years of his ministry.
    For starters, you have the wrong people and person in verse 26..........After the RED AND...........It switches to the Anti-Christ and the Romans.

    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (Jesus)shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Jesus is SACRIFICED for others), but not for himself: and the people (ROMANS) of the prince that shall come (Anti-Christ/Little Horn of the FOURTH BEAST/Rome) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (70 AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Wars), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined (They destroy the Temple and the City).

    27 And he (Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast) shall confirm the covenant (Peace/Security Agreement) with many for one week: (7 YEAR DEAL/Agreement) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (The Anti-Christ reneges on the AGREEMENT) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Overall you have it right, you just have one portion wrong.....THIS ONE.....The people (JEWS of Galilee) {SHOULD BE Romans} of the ruler who will come (Jesus of Galilee){This should be the Anti-Christ} will shachath (RUIN) the city and the sanctuary.

    The Seven years is in reference to the LAST WEEK of the Decree against Israel. The Rapture happens, then God deals with Israel during a Seven Year Period of time. The PEACE is part of the Troubles also. The Troubles of Jacob is not the same thing as the 3.5 Years of Gods Wrath. That is where people error.

    Jacobs Troubles is a Seven Year Period that starts with a FORCED PEACE DEAL, has a man/Little Horn/Anti-Christ reneging on this deal in the Middle of the Week, then rules as the BEAST for 42 Months, and end is when Jesus Christ comes forth conquering all Evil after 3.5 Years of Wrath which starts with the very first Seal.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    For starters, you have the wrong people and person in verse 26..........After the RED AND...........It switches to the Anti-Christ and the Romans.

    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (Jesus)shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (Jesus is SACRIFICED for others), but not for himself: and the people (ROMANS) of the prince that shall come (Anti-Christ/Little Horn of the FOURTH BEAST/Rome) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (70 AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Wars), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined (They destroy the Temple and the City).

    27 And he (Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast) shall confirm the covenant (Peace/Security Agreement) with many for one week: (7 YEAR DEAL/Agreement) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (The Anti-Christ reneges on the AGREEMENT) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Overall you have it right, you just have on portion wrong.....THIS ONE.....The people (JEWS of Galilee) {SHOULD BE Romans} of the ruler who will come (Jesus of Galilee){This should be the Anti-Christ} will shachath (RUIN) the city and the sanctuary.

    The Seven years is in reference to the LAST WEEK of the Decree against Israel. The Rapture happens, then God deals with Israel during a Seven Year Period of time. The PEACE is part of the Troubles also. The Troubles of Jacob is not the same thing as the 3.5 Years of Gods Wrath. That is where people error.

    Jacobs Troubles is a Seven Year Period that starts with a FORCED PEACE DEAL, has a man/Little Horn/Anti-Christ reneging on this deal in the Middle of the Week, then rules as the BEAST for 42 Months, and end with Jesus Christ conquering all Evil after 3.5 Years of Wrath which starts with the very first Seal.
    You are expressing the traditional view that the prince in verse 25 is different to the prince in verse 26. But there is nothing in history or grammar which would change the identity of the prince. Of course the anointed one is Jesus, after all this prophecy is God communicating to Daniel that his prayers and concern for Israel have been answered favorably. But if grammar mentions a coming prince in verse 25 and then a coming prince in verse 26, the context requires SOME indication of a change of character. Neither grammar nor history indicates a necessity to change character of the coming prince in verse 25 to the coming prince in verse 26, thus grammar favors the same prince Jesus in both verses.

    The rest, you have just stated your case, without supporting evidence. MOST TRANSLATIONS have two separate characters, HE who confirms a covenant, and ONE who sets up an abomination. This translation tendency to favor TWO characters in v27 and not one is always ignored by nearly everyone in their analysis of the seventy sevens of Daniel 9.

    All mentions of a 3.5 year period in Daniel and Revelation favor the final 3.5 years before the second coming and so there is no indication anywhere in the bible of an earlier 3.5 year period at the end of this age.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Many people do not realise that the main source of the 7 year tribulation view is Daniel 9:27. Outside of that verse, the bible consistently refers to just 3.5 years which start with an abomination, and end with the end of the world (second coming). This 3.5 year period is referred to often in Daniel and Revelation. After extensive study into the original language and history there is no reason to see a 7 year tribulation period in Daniel 9:27, which refers only to a future 3.5 year period, the wording favors an historical interpretation of the first half of the seven year period:
    25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed one the ruler comes (JESUS of Galilee), there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the anointed one (JESUS of Galilee) will be put to death and will have nothing. The people (JEWS of Galilee) of the ruler who will come (Jesus of Galilee) will shachath (RUIN) the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood (ROMANS THEN DESTROY JERUSALEM QUICKLY): War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. (JERUSALEM IS DESOLATED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS) 27 He (JESUS) will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to (HIS LIFE OF SACRIFICE AND OFFERING) sacrifice and offering (CRUCIFIXION). And at the temple will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him (THE ANTICHRIST).

    So we see two characters in Daniel 9:27, a fact that people miss because the two favorite translations are the NIV and the KJV which describe one character but most other translations confirm two characters. This two character view is consistent with the fact that the antichrist is described as having a future 42 months of authority, NOT 7 years according to Rev 13. This view is also consistent with the fact that Jesus confirmed God's promise to send Messiah to the Jews and then ministered for 3.5 years before putting an end to his life of sacrifice and offering. This two character view is also consistent with the fact that the prince in verse 26 is Jesus, NOT some Roman antichrist which doesn't fit context/grammar of v25/26. There is no reason to see any antichrist confirming a covenant if Jesus already confirmed a great covenant for 3.5 years of his ministry.

    Conclusion: The Tribulation is just 3.5 years long, NOT seven years.
    I use to believe that it was the antichrist and then I thought that it was Jesus but now I believe that it was Antiochus Epiphanies as as no New Testament writer or Jesus Himself ever claimed to fulfill any part of the 70 weeks. Antiochus did break a piece pack with the Jews back in his time and desecrated the temple with pigs blood.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I use to believe that it was the antichrist and then I thought that it was Jesus but now I believe that it was Antiochus Epiphanies as as no New Testament writer or Jesus Himself ever claimed to fulfill any part of the 70 weeks. Antiochus did break a piece pack with the Jews back in his time and desecrated the temple with pigs blood.
    Antiochus does not fit the 3.5 year timeframe. He does however fit the 2300 evenings and mornings timeframe of Daniel 8. So he is a similar forerunner or example of the antichrist but the events of Daniel 9 have not reached fulfilment yet.

    Also Daniel 9 is a positive prophecy answering Daniel's concern for the destiny of Israel and dealing with the coming of the anointed one. It is a clear reference to Jesus.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Antiochus does not fit the 3.5 year timeframe. He does however fit the 2300 evenings and mornings timeframe of Daniel 8. So he is a similar forerunner or example of the antichrist but the events of Daniel 9 have not reached fulfilment yet.

    Also Daniel 9 is a positive prophecy answering Daniel's concern for the destiny of Israel and dealing with the coming of the anointed one. It is a clear reference to Jesus.
    I used to think that Jesus was the anointed one too until

    Daniel 9:25-26
    25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[g] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed

    How could the anointed one be cutoff seven sevens (or 49 years) before he comes?


    He comes at seven sevens and sixty two sevens but it cut off only after sixty two sevens?


    There has to be two anointed ones and again neither Jesus or any New Testament writer ever claimed that Jesus fulfilled any part of the seventy weeks. Would that be misses especially in the book of Matthew witch repeatedly shows Jesus fulfilling Old Testament prophecies?

    I am looking at this through the eyes of a non believing Jew who became a christian

    Which time frame does Antiochus not fit?

  12. #12

    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    I believe the "that shall come" of verse 26 matches the "whose coming" of 2 Thessalonians 2:9 (speaking of the "that Wicked" or "the man of sin" at the time he will "be revealed" [not in the midst of the Week (as many suppose), but at the beginning of the Week, i.e. the first Seal... the beginning of birth pang[s], at the initial birth pang [singular] of the START of the Day of the Lord time period--1Th5:2-3])

    --"that shall come" = "whose coming" (when he will "be revealed"... "in his time")


    Each passage shows his "beginning," his "middle," and his "end"...



    Adding this: of course, I am one that believes Jesus fulfilled the "TO [or 'unto'] Messiah the Prince" (v.25) on Palm Sunday, when Zech9:9 was fulfilled and Jesus spoke the precise words of Luk19:42-44 [v.41].
    Last edited by TheDivineWatermark; Oct 11th 2017 at 03:36 AM. Reason: corrected scripture reference to 2 Thessalonians 2:9 instead of verse 8

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I used to think that Jesus was the anointed one too until

    Daniel 9:25-26
    25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[g] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed

    How could the anointed one be cutoff seven sevens (or 49 years) before he comes?


    He comes at seven sevens and sixty two sevens but it cut off only after sixty two sevens?


    There has to be two anointed ones and again neither Jesus or any New Testament writer ever claimed that Jesus fulfilled any part of the seventy weeks. Would that be misses especially in the book of Matthew witch repeatedly shows Jesus fulfilling Old Testament prophecies?

    I am looking at this through the eyes of a non believing Jew who became a christian

    Which time frame does Antiochus not fit?
    Just because you spoke to a Jew doesn't mean his understanding is better. 7+62 =69. Jesus started his ministry at the beginning of the 69th seven and was cut off 3.5 years later.

    Antiochus doesn't fit because he is clearly in view in Daniel 8 and his timeframe in Daniel 8 is 2300 evenings and mornings which doesn't match the half a seven of Daniel 9:27. This half a seven rather matches the 3.5 years of rule that we associate with the Antichrist.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I believe the "that shall come" of verse 26 matches the "whose coming" of 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (speaking of the "that Wicked" or "the man of sin" at the time he will "be revealed" [not in the midst of the Week (as many suppose), but at the beginning of the Week, i.e. the first Seal... the beginning of birth pang[s], at the initial birth pang [singular] of the START of the Day of the Lord time period--1Th5:2-3])

    --"that shall come" = "whose coming" (when he will "be revealed"... "in his time")


    Each passage shows his "beginning," his "middle," and his "end"...
    If I say the coming mayor will arrive next week. The townsfolk of the coming mayor will be having a market. Why would the grammar indicate TWO coming mayors?? Yet people insert two princes into the text because they think history mentions that Romans and not Jews ruined the Temple and so they can let their view of history override simple grammar. History shows that Jews ruined the Temple and Jerusalem and so there is absolutely no reason to see any Roman Antichrist in the text. Yes the Antichrist of Thessalonians does have a coming, agreed, but this doesn't mean he's a second "coming prince" of Daniel 9. You need the wording to support two princes yet the wording does no such thing.

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    Re: 7 years and Daniel 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Just because you spoke to a Jew doesn't mean his understanding is better. 7+62 =69. Jesus started his ministry at the beginning of the 69th seven and was cut off 3.5 years later.

    Antiochus doesn't fit because he is clearly in view in Daniel 8 and his timeframe in Daniel 8 is 2300 evenings and mornings which doesn't match the half a seven of Daniel 9:27. This half a seven rather matches the 3.5 years of rule that we associate with the Antichrist.
    This Jew saw how AE fulfilled some the 70 weeks before becoming a Christian. The 2300 morning and evening is 1150 days. AE made a 7 year peace pact and died

    Here is a part of a study below

    25/ In 538 Cyrus issued a decree to rebuild Jerusalem; 2 Chronicles 36:22-23.
    'An anointed one, a prince.' The Jewish understanding of this is that it refers to Joshua son of Zephaniah: Zechariah 3:1-10. Branch: Zechariah 6:9-15.

    26/ 'Anointed one cut off.' To the Jewish mind this refers to the murder of Onias 3rd. In 171 BC. He was a High Priest during the Greek occupation according to the historian Josephus and the book of Maccabees. It is also understood that Daniel 8:10-11 as well as Daniel 11:22 refer to Onias 3rd.
    'People of the prince" in the original interpretation this refers to the Greek Seleuians. The prince been Antiochus Epiphanies who made a peace agreement with the Jewish people for a time and then broke it. According to Josephus and the book of Maccabees Antiochus desegregated The Temple and enacted a cruel persecution of all the Jewish people who would not worship his gods. This resulted in the Maccabeen revolt.


    The Temple was rededicated in 164 BC, which was the year in which Antiochus Epiphanies died on a campain in Persia, fulfilling the last line in the prophesie.
    Second Maccabees 9:5-7 records his death this way:
    "But the all-seeing Lord, the God of
    Israel, struck him an incurable and
    unseen blow. As soon as he ceased
    speaking he was seized with a pain in
    his bowels for which there was no relief
    and with sharp internal tortures - and
    that very justly, for he had tortured the
    bowels of others with many and strange
    inflictions. Yet he did not in any way
    stop his insolence, but was even more
    filled with arrogance, breathing fire in
    his rage against the Jews, and giving
    orders to hasten the journey. And so it
    came about that he fell out of his
    chariot as it was rushing along, and the
    fall was so hard as to torture every limb
    of his body."

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