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Thread: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

  1. #1

    Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    I am wondering, for as far as I can see, one is either a Christian or a non Christian.
    Am I missing something?

  2. #2

    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    It's fine.
    Why does it bother you?
    9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10 So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. - Galatians 6:9-10 NASB

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    I am not content with it, not saying that we shouldn't learn Jewish customs and read ancient Rabbinical commentaries. I knew of Messianic Christian that makes a yearly booth according to Jewish tradition.

    Having said that, we owe the Jews for the Bible and that through them, according to the flesh, Jesus came. I love and honor the Jew.

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by tea View Post
    I am wondering, for as far as I can see, one is either a Christian or a non Christian.
    Am I missing something?
    You are correct. The Bible does not ever mention this title. It is man's invention and, like all men's traditions, misleading. When our Lord built His Church Ephesians 2:15-16 tells us;

    15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"


    From the grammar of these verses the Church is;
    1. It is made OUT of TWO. That is, it is made OUT OF members of the nation of Israel, and OUT OF members of the nations
    2. A New Man. It never existed before
    3. One Body. It is not a nation like Israel, but Christ's BODY

    Further more, once a man, whatever his nationality or ethnicity, is part of the new Man and One Body, his passport or physical DNA does not matter a wit. Both Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11 say severally;
    28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
    11 "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

    To use the term "Messianic Jew" is a contradiction of scripture. At best it has the same connotation as "Messianic Eskimo".

    The decisive factor is BIRTH.
    • The nations are born from Adam via Noah
    • Israel is born via Adam via Noah via Isaac
    • The Church is born of the Holy Spirit

    It is a deep insult to our rebirth and God to mix in the flesh with the Holy Spirit.

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    For a Jew it's a valid phrase.

    The letter to Hebrews was specifically written to Jews who believe in Christ. It is the Hebrew term for "Christian" as applied to Jews.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    For a Jew it's a valid phrase.

    The letter to Hebrews was specifically written to Jews who believe in Christ. It is the Hebrew term for "Christian" as applied to Jews.
    It appears NOT once in Hebrews. "Hebrew" means "River crosser", the which every Christian is also. See 1st Corinthian 10:1-11, especially verse 6. And the Book of Hebrews CONTRASTS ...
    • Israel with, "... holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Hebrews 3:1). The word "brethren" means they have the same Father - God (Jn.1:12,-13)
    • Those under angels' revelation and those under Christ's
    • Those under Moses an those under Christ
    • Those under the Order of Aaron and those under Christ of the Order of Melchisedec
    • Those who sacrifice daily and those who have ONE Sacrifice

    Hebrews is written to once-Jews who had embraced Christ, but were in danger of slipping back to Moses because of loss and tribulation (10:32-34). They are never called "Messianic Jews"!

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It appears NOT once in Hebrews. "Hebrew" means "River crosser", the which every Christian is also. See 1st Corinthian 10:1-11, especially verse 6. And the Book of Hebrews CONTRASTS ...
    • Israel with, "... holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Hebrews 3:1). The word "brethren" means they have the same Father - God (Jn.1:12,-13)
    • Those under angels' revelation and those under Christ's
    • Those under Moses an those under Christ
    • Those under the Order of Aaron and those under Christ of the Order of Melchisedec
    • Those who sacrifice daily and those who have ONE Sacrifice

    Hebrews is written to once-Jews who had embraced Christ, but were in danger of slipping back to Moses because of loss and tribulation (10:32-34). They are never called "Messianic Jews"!
    Seriously?

    Why are you playing with semantics? A Jew or Gentile or a Hebrew is redeemed by Jesus, not by whatever title you demand they wear.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  8. #8

    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    I was on a forum discussing Messianic Judaism for about 10 years. "Messianic Jew" is just a person of Jewish background who becomes a Christian, while retaining his ethnic and cultural identity. These "Messianic Jews" are heavily opposed by traditional Jews, who want the word "Jew" to be associated with anything but Christianity. They want Judaism to be associated with Rabbinic Judaism, and not with any connection with Christianity whatsoever.

    So "Messianic Jew" is a term of convenience, allowing ethnic Jews to express their belief that Christianity is the true fulfillment of Judaism. It's fine by me. Unfortunately, many Messianic Jews are experiencing what the earliest Jewish movement did when it became Christian. They struggle with the idea of retaining the Law together with the Gospel. They tend to over-emphasize the importance of Jewish learning and Jewish customs, which clearly never were designed for non-Jews. In trying to elevate the Jewish component in the gospel they tend to elevate themselves too highly. In my opinion, it's fine if they want to retain Jewish customs for Jews, but not if they try to apply that to the whole Church.

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    That's pretty much been my understanding.

    What I'll never understand is why a gentile would want to "become" or call themselves a Messianic Jew. Or why the Messianic Jews allow them to join them. It just baffles me.
    Oh, come, all ye faithful,
    Joyful and triumphant.

    O come, let us adore Him Christ the Lord!

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    I'm a Messianic Gentile.

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    I'm a Messianic Gentile.
    Yes, I am of Christ, too.

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    I'm a retired grunt.

    (someone had to say it!)
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by tea View Post
    I am wondering, for as far as I can see, one is either a Christian or a non Christian.
    Am I missing something?
    Sure you are. You're hung up on titles rather than our position in Christ.

    The quicker you get passed this the quicker you will see others as God sees them
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!




  14. #14

    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It appears NOT once in Hebrews. "Hebrew" means "River crosser", the which every Christian is also. See 1st Corinthian 10:1-11, especially verse 6. And the Book of Hebrews CONTRASTS ...
    • Israel with, "... holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Hebrews 3:1). The word "brethren" means they have the same Father - God (Jn.1:12,-13)
    • Those under angels' revelation and those under Christ's
    • Those under Moses an those under Christ
    • Those under the Order of Aaron and those under Christ of the Order of Melchisedec
    • Those who sacrifice daily and those who have ONE Sacrifice

    Hebrews is written to once-Jews who had embraced Christ, but were in danger of slipping back to Moses because of loss and tribulation (10:32-34). They are never called "Messianic Jews"!
    Brilliant work Walls!
    To me it is an expression of the exhalation of the law.
    So what if one has such n such roots, out of the stones God can raise up children of Abraham, I think that s a quote from a wise man, was it?

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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by tea View Post
    Brilliant work Walls!
    To me it is an expression of the exhalation of the law.
    So what if one has such n such roots, out of the stones God can raise up children of Abraham, I think that s a quote from a wise man, was it?
    The number one thing that plagues the Church is not sin. That is obvious to all. The number one thing that destroys the Church and its testimony is DIVISION. As our Lord faced His crisis in John 17:20-23, He prayed to the Father for TWO groups of people. Those who surrounded Him at that moment - Jews, and "those who would believe in Jesus through their teaching" - the Gentiles. It reads;

    20 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."


    If you count verses 11 as well then we have our Lord Jesus praying FIVE TIMES that ALL who believe in Him would be ONE. And that UNITY would be the thing that, (1) "that the world may believe that thou hast sent me" (TWICE), (2) "that the world may know that thou hast loved them", and (3) "that the world may know that thou hast loved me" (Jesus). The testimony of Jesus sent by God, and Jesus and the Church loved by God, is tied together with their unity.

    This UNITY is such an important thing that dire threats are attached to it. In 1st Corinthians 1 Paul's first accusation is that the Church was divided by doctrine and prominent leaders. Then, in Chapter 3 Paul gets much stronger about division. He says that it is (1) CARNAL (four times), (2) proof of IMMATURITY, and (3) the cause of Christians' inability to understand the deep things of the Word. And Paul, under inspiration, ends with the dire threat in verse 17 that, "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

    Coming upon a bad car or airplane accident, and seeing limbs torn off bodies and lying apart from the dismembered torsos, is a horror for us. That is what we Christians do when we are divided. We tear Christ's Body apart and destroy not only the Body of Christ, but we destroy its testimony on earth before the heathen.

    The man-made term "Messianic Jew" is a blatant attempt to make a separate class of Christian. It is intrinsically DIVISIVE. It points to the flesh, for the claim of the Jew is that he was born of Isaac and NOT the Holy Spirit. It points to the Law of Moses because that is the CULTURE and RELIGION that makes the Jew SEPARATE from other men. But this Law has, IN THE CHURCH*, been ABOLISHED as a partition between Christians of different backgrounds (Eph.2:14-16). So Paul, in Philippians 3:2 says; "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision." He lumps "dogs", an unclean animal, and "evil workers" with those who would promote the Law of Moses of which circumcision is a bastion.

    * I do not say that the Law has been abolished. For the Jew who refuses Christ it is still perfectly valid with all its curses. But IN THE CHURCH, THE NEW MAN, THE NEW CREATURE, the Law has been abolished as it DIVIDES!

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