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Thread: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

  1. #256
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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    They are in black and white and very easy to understand. If there is some hidden meaning other than what is obvious, then please let me know what that meaning is. ( As simply as possible please ).
    He has said repeatedly that he doesn't believe anyone is justified by the law. However, in his posts, he seems to imply they are made holy through the keeping of the law (or at least their behavior is holy). Seems he thinks that Jews that get saved, are still obligated to keep the Law of Moses. Yet, he also says that the Law of Moses and the Law of God are the same, and that as Christians, we Gentiles are not obligated to keep the law of God. At least that is what it seems to me he is saying.

    C&E feel free to jump in if I have misrepresented your position.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  2. #257
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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    He has said repeatedly that he doesn't believe anyone is justified by the law. However, in his posts, he seems to imply they are made holy through the keeping of the law (or at least their behavior is holy). Seems he thinks that Jews that get saved, are still obligated to keep the Law of Moses. Yet, he also says that the Law of Moses and the Law of God are the same, and that as Christians, we Gentiles are not obligated to keep the law of God. At least that is what it seems to me he is saying.

    C&E feel free to jump in if I have misrepresented your position.
    Hooah! Thus why I've illuminated that his theology is either two narrow roads or one narrow road with two paths/lanes.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  3. #258
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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    He has said repeatedly that he doesn't believe anyone is justified by the law. However, in his posts, he seems to imply they are made holy through the keeping of the law (or at least their behavior is holy). Seems he thinks that Jews that get saved, are still obligated to keep the Law of Moses. Yet, he also says that the Law of Moses and the Law of God are the same, and that as Christians, we Gentiles are not obligated to keep the law of God. At least that is what it seems to me he is saying.

    C&E feel free to jump in if I have misrepresented your position.
    In one post I could not locate, the quote was something like " the food laws and the circumcision are still in effect".... There is a fine, fine line there that gets crossed when statements like that are thrown out.

    Also , when someone uses the terms " made clean" in regard to holiness, it's easy to see that someone could misinterpret the position.

  4. #259

    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    In one post I could not locate, the quote was something like " the food laws and the circumcision are still in effect".... There is a fine, fine line there that gets crossed when statements like that are thrown out.

    Also , when someone uses the terms " made clean" in regard to holiness, it's easy to see that someone could misinterpret the position.
    Just from the view point of reading this post, I see Cady as trying to point out the differences in the Messianic Jew compared to the common church Christians. I think he did a good job at explaining the differences. He was to detailed for the taste of the law of God haters on the forum, as there are those that at any mention of God's laws or food, they start attacking an individual. I have seen it happen over and over on the forum, it simply happened again. Yet these same people live under laws they are told to keep. Go figure. Abiding by government laws or laws of God does not save anyone... so there is one road to salvation for both law abiding people. You simply are choosing the laws you live by and honoring those laws. It did however give me an idea for a new thread, wonder what peoples thoughts on it would be.

  5. #260
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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Just from the view point of reading this post, I see Cady as trying to point out the differences in the Messianic Jew compared to the common church Christians. I think he did a good job at explaining the differences. He was to detailed for the taste of the law of God haters on the forum, as there are those that at any mention of God's laws or food, they start attacking an individual. I have seen it happen over and over on the forum, it simply happened again. Yet these same people live under laws they are told to keep. Go figure. Abiding by government laws or laws of God does not save anyone... so there is one road to salvation for both law abiding people. You simply are choosing the laws you live by and honoring those laws. It did however give me an idea for a new thread, wonder what peoples thoughts on it would be.
    "Attacking individuals?" Law of God "haters"? (should I report your post )

    There is the standing up for what Paul teaches to Jews who follow the Law while also saying they are Christians (Galatians is a great example) vs. correcting those who say the Law must be followed TO be a Christian. If you view the "context" in which CandZ is theologically responding, it is in the same context in which Paul WAS REQUIRED to attacked (your opinionated terms) the Galatians... to CORRECT their context of mixing both Law statutes and Jesus.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  6. #261

    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    "Attacking individuals?" Law of God "haters"? (should I report your post )

    There is the standing up for what Paul teaches to Jews who follow the Law while also saying they are Christians (Galatians is a great example) vs. correcting those who say the Law must be followed TO be a Christian. If you view the "context" in which CandZ is theologically responding, it is in the same context in which Paul WAS REQUIRED to attacked (your opinionated terms) the Galatians... to CORRECT their context of mixing both Law statutes and Jesus.
    Ya I am sorry I shouldn't have defined it that way probably, I could not think of a simple word that defines how it appears on here when it happens.

  7. #262
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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Ya I am sorry I shouldn't have defined it that way probably, I could not think of a simple word that defines how it appears on here when it happens.
    Here is what is happening... some are saying that statutes of the Law are to be followed by Jews who are Christian. An example is always raised and that example is food. Those who say that eating specific foods as part of the Law as just a Jewish tradition and who are saying that THE LAW food choice of Jews is OK, because they are Jews and as Christians, follow that portion of the Law. Again... others say that is false.

    Let me show you an example of Jews eating as Gentiles when they are with Gentiles and eating as Jews, when other Jews are present...

    Gal 2:11 Now when Peter[a] had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

    14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?[c] 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
    17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


    See that part I underlined... so when any person on this board says that Christian Jews are to eat "kosher" in accordance with following the Law, and other members of the board say they do NOT... there is NO attack happening. Correction is happening... just as Paul had to correct Peter in his hypocritical actions in eating as a "Jew" is to eat while with Jews.

    Peter didn't have to eat kosher to be righteous. He could have continued eating pulled pork with a side of bacon even in the midst of all those Jews.

    So... please, your opinion that some on this board are Law haters, the truth is, they are NOT. All they are doing is the same as Paul, when someone says that Jews can mix both the Law for justification and Christ for justification.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  8. #263
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    Re: Is the phrase 'Messianic Jew' a good one?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Ya I am sorry I shouldn't have defined it that way probably, I could not think of a simple word that defines how it appears on here when it happens.
    Try using the term grace. That's applicable.

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