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Thread: 'Sabbath'

  1. #46

    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by fred06 View Post
    Question is, is man made for Sabbath or Sabbath is made for man?

    Correct me if i am wrong Scripturally, but to me, Sabbath was made for man. This is because they are given and ordain by GOD a day of rest from all their work in a week. But this Law was weak in the flesh and man took it to heights of multiplying many restrictions on the people on that day and ordained it the seventh day of the week.

    Therefore JESUS came to liberate us from the power and sting of the Law, and gave us truly the meaning about that day. First of all, JESUS said that, 'I am the LORD of the Sabbath." And, "My FATHER is always working, for I too must work."

    JESUS violated the Sabbath according to man's standards and expectations, but to GOD's He is perfect and simple. JESUS said doing good to another on that day is holy. For He like every other day and on the Sabbath likewise heal the sick, blind, deaf, lame and etc.

    Moreover, it is also a rest day for man from all his work, including spend spiritual family quality time together, with his neighbor. In the New Covenant spiritual eyes discerning, Sabbath is not compulsorily falls on Sunday, for that would be like man was made for Sabbath, as though a specific day of observation He is ordained to.

    For Christians, as we are liberated by CHRIST JESUS our LORD and are like Him, the LORD of the Sabbath, we may work any six days, apart from the calendar week. But on any day on the seventh, one may rest from all his work. But nevertheless, do not stop doing good and denying good unto thy neighbor, even ones who seek or need help.

    JESUS also told about the parable about a neighbor who disturbs another in the middle of the night when he is already asleep with his family, for a loaf of bread for his visitor. As He also said in the beginning of Matthew that, "When someone ask you for something, give it to them."

    Anything to add or subtract according to your view point Scripturally on this, brethren?
    This is a late comment for this post, but I noticed people are still posting on it. So I thought I would add my two cents.

    Lots of points to address, but let me start by saying that this is a *Jewish Law* and not for other nations--never was. Only those visiting Israel during the OT period were required to obey certain elements of Jewish Law. It might be respectful to observe Sabbath requirements for foreigners to visit Israel today, but I doubt there is any expectation in that regard. It is a *Jewish requirement,* not a custom imposed on foreigners.

    If the Law, for Christians, is not in play, and it is not, then as Christians we should not be imposing Sabbath requirements on anybody! The Sabbath law was part of the Law of Moses, and since we no longer view that as in play we should not observe it or expect anybody else to observe it. If a nation like Israel wants to observe it, that's up to them!

    The principle of the Law has value, however, inasmuch as it shows God does not need our work for anything other than in matters of obedience or in practical matters. We should try to save our animals on every day, and we should obey God on every day. The Sabbath just showed that God *did not want our work* on one day of the week. Substituting one week day for Saturday only provides us with a weekly break, and does not mean we are keeping a requirement of resting for one full day! And having a week day for a break makes sense, although different jobs may fit our needed rest in in other ways.

    Bottom line: Christians should *never* feel they have to observe a weekly day of rest or rest on Sundays or Saturdays. The Law was fulfilled for us! The Sabbath Law was fulfilled for us, when the Jewish People had their covenant annulled. Let me quickly say, however, that I believe the Jewish People still have recourse to God's earlier promises to the Fathers to reestablish His covenant with the Jewish People--not the Law of Moses, but the New Covenant of Jer 31.31.

    But we should keep in mind that God showed He is concerned that we not work all the time, and make room to get rest and worship the Lord together with His people. And we should also recognize, at all times, that God *does not need our work.* What we do we should do in partnership with Him, praying over everything we do, to ensure it is pleasing to God. That is, for me, what Sabbath Law was meant to teach us.

  2. #47

    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Right. Just explaining a different perspective. Feel free to accept or reject it.
    Sorry, but i have to tell the truth, that different prospective apart from what is already written as grace and truth from above of CHRIST in sound doctrine knowledge for spirituality, to do/practice and abide and bear much fruits, is of deceit, lies and heresy.

    The pilgrim church, reformer church and the protestant, were 'persecuted' for standing up for the written grace and truth of the New Covenant doctrine of CHRIST, as they accordingly 'do/practice' and 'abide', and 'bear much fruit'. Which came from the worst enemy in our own household itself, of deceit, lies and heresy themselves and condemned.

  3. #48

    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I understand that;
    1. The Jew who has rejected Jesus Christ of Bethlehem is bound by both the Covenant of Sabbath and the Law that regulates it. Remember, for the Jew the Sabbath has far reaching behavior like letting the Land lie fallow every seventh year, the return of one's inheritance after seven sevens of years, etc. It is given to the Jew, among other reasons, to point to that time when they will truly enjoy God's Rest - the Millennium, the SEVENTH 1,000 year day. You will note how many times in the gospels that our Lord Jesus did relieving and healing works on the Sabbath. These all pointed to Israel's restoration on the SEVENTH - the Millennium.
    2. The Christian takes it only as a shadow of the Future Sabbath Rest of Hebrews 3 and 4 and Revelation 20. It is not given to worship, commemorate or pay respects to a shadow, as a shadow has no substance. A shadow is that place of lack of light that the real thing has taken. The Christian must strive for the real thing which will only be given when Christ returns at the dawn of the SEVENTH 1,000 day (Heb.4:11). If a Christian returns to the Covenant and Law of Sabbath, then all the strong words of Galatians like "you make Christ of none effect", and "you are fallen from grace" apply (Gal.5:4 - shudder!). And finally, consider this. If two other parties make a Covenant, a Contract, and it does not include you, what have you to do or say in it? Nothing! The law does not recognize ANY claim you make.
    Would you say there are no, commanded sacred assembly day and or days on which no work to be done, of which Christians should observe?

  4. #49
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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Would you say there are no, commanded sacred assembly day and or days on which no work to be done, of which Christians should observe?
    Christians are not commanded to cease work on any day.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    What are the things to come?
    May I refer you to posting #3, especially the second part on the FUTURE Sabbath Rest. Thanks and God bless

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Would you say there are no, commanded sacred assembly day and or days on which no work to be done, of which Christians should observe?
    No. There is no sacred Assembly days in the which no work is to be done for the Christian. The zealous Christian meets with his fellow saints as often as he can, fits Assembly in before and after work, and brings Christ with him wherever he goes. The primitive Church in Jerusalem, under leadership of the Apostles who were trained by Jesus, met "daily" in a large meeting (Temple) and smaller meetings (houses)(Act.2:46).

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    May I refer you to posting #3, especially the second part on the FUTURE Sabbath Rest. Thanks and God bless
    I read your post, twice. In that post you say that the Sabbath Covenant was for Israel alone. To be consistent, I think, you would need to say that the "things to come" pertain to Israel alone. That's my question. Is that what you believe?

  8. #53
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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    The Sabbath, festivals, new moons and the entire Jewish calendar were a "shadow" of things to come. They were foreshadows, predictive shadows symbolizing things to come. The contrast between "shadow" and "reality" is also found in Hebrews 10:1. The sacrificial laws were a shadow of the good things that were coming (same Greek word and tense as in Colossians 2:17), not the reality. Just as the sacrifices were shadows that pointed to Christ and were superseded by him, the old covenant worship days were also shadows that pointed to Christ.

    Paul did not teach gentile Christians to keep the Sabbath. Instead, Paul told the Roman church (which contained both Jews and gentiles), "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5).

    Paul did not see it as necessary to tell them that one particular day is sacred or superior to the other. He left it to individual conviction. Obviously, something significant had happened, the most significant event in history: the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Because of that significant event, days are no longer a matter for judging.

    Nowhere in the Bible are Gentiles commanded to observe the Sabbath or are condemned for failing to do so. That is strange if observing the Sabbath was meant to be an eternal moral principle.
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  9. #54
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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by fred06 View Post
    Sorry, but i have to tell the truth, that different prospective apart from what is already written as grace and truth from above of CHRIST in sound doctrine knowledge for spirituality, to do/practice and abide and bear much fruits, is of deceit, lies and heresy.

    The pilgrim church, reformer church and the protestant, were 'persecuted' for standing up for the written grace and truth of the New Covenant doctrine of CHRIST, as they accordingly 'do/practice' and 'abide', and 'bear much fruit'. Which came from the worst enemy in our own household itself, of deceit, lies and heresy themselves and condemned.
    That's me. I'm your local neighborhood heretic. AKA the crazy Jewish guy who likes to post here. Nice to meet you!
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I read your post, twice. In that post you say that the Sabbath Covenant was for Israel alone. To be consistent, I think, you would need to say that the "things to come" pertain to Israel alone. That's my question. Is that what you believe?
    Yes. That is why it is in the Book of Hebrews. The Book of Hebrews is addressed to converted ex-Jews who were in danger of returning to Moses. So things Jewish are addressed like our Lord Jesus, a Judaen, becoming the New High Priest and Aaron, a Levite, falling away (for the converted). The Millennium is the coming "Kingdom of Heaven" for the Christian, and he will rule with Christ. For the Jew it is the fulfillment of the Sabbath Rest and its Covenant that neither God nor His Earthly People, the Jews, had ever really had. The author of Hebrews shows that the Hebrews of Old drew back from inheriting the Good Land and so drew back from entering the Sabbath Rest of God. He then goes on to show how those who entered the Good Land were unable to complete it - the 1,000 years of occupying, subduing and ruling it. So, because this Covenant is a "perpetual" or "everlasting" Covenant (Ex.31:16; Lev.24:8), and MUST be fulfilled, God has set forth another and future Sabbath Rest that will be fulfilled by a Ruler and King of the Jews - Jesus. In the Books to the ex-Gentiles, Paul & Co. do not address it like this. They call it the "Kingdom" since the Sabbath does not pertain to Gentiles.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    The Sabbath, festivals, new moons and the entire Jewish calendar were a "shadow" of things to come. They were foreshadows, predictive shadows symbolizing things to come. The contrast between "shadow" and "reality" is also found in Hebrews 10:1. The sacrificial laws were a shadow of the good things that were coming (same Greek word and tense as in Colossians 2:17), not the reality. Just as the sacrifices were shadows that pointed to Christ and were superseded by him, the old covenant worship days were also shadows that pointed to Christ.

    Paul did not teach gentile Christians to keep the Sabbath. Instead, Paul told the Roman church (which contained both Jews and gentiles), "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5).

    Paul did not see it as necessary to tell them that one particular day is sacred or superior to the other. He left it to individual conviction. Obviously, something significant had happened, the most significant event in history: the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Because of that significant event, days are no longer a matter for judging.

    Nowhere in the Bible are Gentiles commanded to observe the Sabbath or are condemned for failing to do so. That is strange if observing the Sabbath was meant to be an eternal moral principle.
    Nice posting Bro.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    That's me. I'm your local neighborhood heretic. AKA the crazy Jewish guy who likes to post here. Nice to meet you!
    Fenris, we don't know how you got here but we Luv Yah. Your input is needed to get the others thinking.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Fenris, we don't know how you got here but we Luv Yah. Your input is needed to get the others thinking.
    God brought me here, for whatever reason. And I found it so interesting that I decided to stay!
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  14. #59

    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    God brought me here, for whatever reason. And I found it so interesting that I decided to stay!
    For some reason I'm always glad to see your name in here. I don't necessarily respect all Jews, nor do I view all the Jewish People as the same. But I do revere those who uphold the one God, making monotheism a triumphant religious view in the world. And I especially favor Jewish monothesm over Islamic monotheism.

    As to whether you agree with all things Christian or not--I know you do not--that is a matter of conscience--the sacred right to hear God for one's self. Nobody should be brow beat or shamed into religious acceptance of any kind. We all need to hear from God for ourselves. Thanks for your honest thoughts!

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Thanks for listening to my thoughts. And God bless!


    now back to the topic at hand...
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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