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Thread: 'Sabbath'

  1. #61

    Re: 'Sabbath'

    In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. Lev 23:5

    Was the passover that took place on the fourteenth day of the first month a shadow of a reality?

  2. #62
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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. Lev 23:5

    Was the passover that took place on the fourteenth day of the first month a shadow of a reality?
    I would say no, the Passover was real and marked the time that the Lord freed his people.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I would say no, the Passover was real and marked the time that the Lord freed his people.
    Jesus rose on the first day after, not on Passover.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  4. #64

    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I would say no, the Passover was real and marked the time that the Lord freed his people.
    Was not the Passover also a shadow of the death of the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world? Also would not the reality of,seven shadows of holy convocation days of rest which, followed the fourteenth day of the first month not also follow the death of the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

    Is not sin still in the world, yet the reality of the Passover, the death of Christ, took place over 2000 years ago.

    Shadows of reality that began with the death of Christ. All declared, sacred assemblies, all declared day of rest. The very first feast on the day following the death of Christ. Did it begin men being unleavened, sin being removed? But consider. And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17 Why did another sacred assembly, day of rest, follow on the twenty first day of the first month, another shadow? Why does Paul say? Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1 cor 5:8
    Why keep this shadow. unleavened bread? Is it not because of what had taken place? V 7 as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Bay being raised from the dead was our sin washed away in his own blood/ Once again. 1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17

    When did the reality of the next shadow, the next sacred assembly, day of rest, take place?

    Firstfruit of what?

  5. #65

    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

    What day if rest, sacred assembly day, did the promise of the Father, come?

    Why was that day given as a shadow. Was the reality for Israel, OR was the reality of that day for, the Church of God?

    What about the next shadow?

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Jesus rose on the first day after, not on Passover.
    Yeah. The Thread is about the Sabbath. They've diverted it.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Was not the Passover also a shadow of the death of the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world? Also would not the reality of,seven shadows of holy convocation days of rest which, followed the fourteenth day of the first month not also follow the death of the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
    Let's be clear about the difference between a "shadow" and a "picture." A shadow is a dark area or shape produced by an object coming between rays of light and a surface. Very little can be known about the object from the shadow. The only information we get from a shadow is a rough outline of the object, and the angle of incidence affects the accuracy of the image such that we don't have much confidence that we know anything certain about the object.

    A picture, on the other hand, is very detailed and in modern times we can produce pictures that give us very accurate information about the object or scene being depicted. What we see in a picture is very helpful and beneficial to those who have them.

    The day of Passover is not a shadow but a very detailed picture. The day of Passover, which is the first day of the feast of Unleavened bread is intended as a memorial of the day that God led Israel out of Egypt, freeing them from slavery. (This is presumably the reason why it is called "freedom day" even today.) Observance of the Passover is intended to both commemorate that historical event and to serve as the standard around which the nation of Israel assembles in communion. The Passover meal is called a Seder, which I believe is the Hebrew word for "order", because the Seder recounts the Passover event in great detail and in order.

    When Jesus ate the Passover meal with his disciples he led the Seder and recounted the events of the Exodus. However, on his final Passover meal, he reinterpreted two elements from the Seder, giving them new meaning related to the New Covenant. One piece of matzo and one of the wine glasses were to remind his disciples of their freedom from bondage to sin. His death on the cross would free his people from their sins. And thus the image pictured in the Passover meal has been given a fuller and more robust meaning. Not only does the Passover commemorate the exodus from Egypt but it now commemorates the exodus from sin and death also.

    This is in accordance with his appellation "God is with us", in answer to the question raised in Exodus 17:7, "Is the Lord among us or not?" The answer is, God was with you when you left Egypt, and he was with you when he gave you his son.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Yeah. The Thread is about the Sabbath. They've diverted it.
    The central focus of this particular thread, which concerns the Sabbath, is the distinction between a memorial day and the actual events the day is intended to commemorate. As we have noted, a review of Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 reveals that the weekly observance of the Sabbath day is intended to commemorate the Seventh day of creation. The actual Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week; the actual Sabbath is the day when God rested. When Israel rested every seventh day of the week, they were not "keeping" the seventh day of the week holy, they were keeping the seventh day of creation holy. And more significantly, they are being invited to ask why the Seventh day of creation is special and unique.

    Christians may not commemorate the seventh day of creation once a week as Israel did, but the question it raises is still of vital interest to Christians or it should be.

    Why is the Seventh day of creation so unique and special? What makes it different than another day other than the fact that God rested? What does it mean for God to rest anyway?

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    The central focus of this particular thread, which concerns the Sabbath, is the distinction between a memorial day and the actual events the day is intended to commemorate. As we have noted, a review of Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 reveals that the weekly observance of the Sabbath day is intended to commemorate the Seventh day of creation. The actual Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week; the actual Sabbath is the day when God rested. When Israel rested every seventh day of the week, they were not "keeping" the seventh day of the week holy, they were keeping the seventh day of creation holy. And more significantly, they are being invited to ask why the Seventh day of creation is special and unique.

    Christians may not commemorate the seventh day of creation once a week as Israel did, but the question it raises is still of vital interest to Christians or it should be.

    Why is the Seventh day of creation so unique and special? What makes it different than another day other than the fact that God rested? What does it mean for God to rest anyway?
    • Do I sense frustration? My posting which you have just answered agreed with another member because some left off the Sabbath and started discussing the PASSOVER. I felt free to comment on this derailment.
    • In your posting above, maybe you could check and/or revise your logic. In your third sentence you write; "The actual Sabbath is not the seventh day of the week;" Two sentences later you wrote; "When Israel rested every seventh day of the week ...". We all make mistakes, so no problem for me. But which is it? Why I ask, is that scripture says that our Lord Jesus was raised on the first day of the week. That means that the Sabbath IS the last day of the week (Matt.28:1; Mk.16:1-2; Lk.23:56 - 24:1).
    • In your first posting on this matter you wrote that remembering the Sabbath was a "moral imperative" for Christians, which, when challenged on, refused to post the scriptures. Now it is reduced to "of vital interest". But you might, or might not agree that the first and only posting so-far in this thread to show the importance of the first Sabbath, and the last, was my lengthy one on the meaning of the Sabbath. Why not write a treatise like I did on your last sentence above. I am an avid student of God's Word and I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say.
    Last edited by Walls; Nov 17th 2017 at 01:16 PM.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    I was sharing the Gospel with a SDA and explained to him that the Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). He attempted to correct me with this statement below:

    The "Gospel" (good news) is EVERY Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and it is God's Word that we are to live by and have life (Matthew 4:4). The "Gospel" was being preached before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus (e.g. Mark 1:15; 8:35; Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35; 11:5; 24:14; Luke 4:18; 7:22; 20:11) The Good New (Gospel) is indeed Jesus, His life, death, resurrection and new administration as our great high priest, but Jesus is the Word of God. The Gospel is the WORD OF GOD and it is the WORD OF GOD that we are to BELIEVE and live by. (Matthew 4:4; John 1-1-4; John 3:16).

    The truth about the Gospel of the grace of God does not fit with a sabbatarian legalistic theology. He also made this statement below:

    There is a perverted Gospel out there. A counterfeit Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.

    I want to make sure that I'm understanding this man's logic. So according to this SDA, the Gospel is ALL of God's Word? Basically the entire Bible is the Gospel? His "good news" is live by EVERY Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, which includes obeying the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment--remember the sabbath day to keep it holy), or else!

    Here were his final words to me below:

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    If that was not ridiculous enough. He also shared this ludicrous article with me below:

    THE MARK OF THE BEAST COMES FROM LEGISLATED LAWS OF ENFORCED SUNDAY WORSHIP AND BREAKING ANY OF GOD"S COMMANDMENTS

    RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE FOREHEAD = TO BELIEVE IN SUNDAY WORSHIP AND TO OBEY IT
    RECEIVING THE MARK IN THE HAND = TO OBEY (You don't need to believe in Sunday Worship)

    God’s seal is His name, character and law written in His people’s hearts and minds. These characteristics are seen in His 7th day Sabbath commandment, which identifies Him as our Creator (Ex 20: 10). God's true followers are identified as those who resist the mark of the beast and keep God's 7th Day Sabbath Holy. They are identified as “keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12)

    Unbelievable! It truly amazes me to see just how far people can go who teach this perverted sabbath gospel! Any thoughts? Comments?
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  11. #71
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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Yes. It is amazing what SELECTIVE CHOICE of scriptures do. You see a lot of it on this Forum. So let's examine his thesis.

    "The Good News (the Gospel) is the whole Word of God." Genesis 3:22-24, the Word of God, says

    22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
    23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
    24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."


    So according to the Seventh Day Adventists it is "Good News" that God barred man from the Tree of Life and consigned him then to death.

    "THE MARK OF THE BEAST COMES FROM LEGISLATED LAWS OF ENFORCED SUNDAY WORSHIP AND BREAKING ANY OF GOD"S COMMANDMENTS"

    God's Commandment in Deuteronomy 12:11. "Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD." The place where God put His name was the Temple in Jerusalem. 1st Kings 8:29 records Solomon's prayer to the newly built Temple. "That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place." Every Seventh Day Adventist breaks God's Laws annually if he does not go up to Jerusalem and the Temple THRICE a year (Ex.34:23-24). And if so then they break the WHOLE LAW. James 2:10, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

    The Seventh Day Adventists agree to a system that CONTINUALLY breaks ALL of God's Laws - and they agree with it for the "WHOLE BIBLE IS THE GOSPEL". What a gospel!

  12. #72
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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Yes. It is amazing what SELECTIVE CHOICE of scriptures do. You see a lot of it on this Forum. So let's examine his thesis.

    "The Good News (the Gospel) is the whole Word of God." Genesis 3:22-24, the Word of God, says

    22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
    23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
    24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."


    So according to the Seventh Day Adventists it is "Good News" that God barred man from the Tree of Life and consigned him then to death.

    "THE MARK OF THE BEAST COMES FROM LEGISLATED LAWS OF ENFORCED SUNDAY WORSHIP AND BREAKING ANY OF GOD"S COMMANDMENTS"

    God's Commandment in Deuteronomy 12:11. "Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD." The place where God put His name was the Temple in Jerusalem. 1st Kings 8:29 records Solomon's prayer to the newly built Temple. "That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place." Every Seventh Day Adventist breaks God's Laws annually if he does not go up to Jerusalem and the Temple THRICE a year (Ex.34:23-24). And if so then they break the WHOLE LAW. James 2:10, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

    The Seventh Day Adventists agree to a system that CONTINUALLY breaks ALL of God's Laws - and they agree with it for the "WHOLE BIBLE IS THE GOSPEL". What a gospel!
    You hit the nail on the head!
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    I was in a discussion with yet another SDA and I explained to him that I could not find one verse under the New Covenant that *specifically* commands Gentile believers to observe the Sabbath. Yet he said this below:

    I could find a number of verses in the Bible telling gentiles to observe the Sabbath.

    Isaiah 56:5-8 specifically calls out gentiles for Sabbath observance.
    Isaiah 66:23 gentiles as part of "all mankind" are to keep Sabbath for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth. "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
    Acts 13 "almost the entire city " of GENTILES shows up "the next SABBATH to hear Gospel preaching"
    Acts 15 "Moses being preached every SABBATH" is a key detail in the solution "for gentile Christians"

    The point remains for those who have 66 books in their Bibles.

    "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12


    I'm not seeing where any of those verses that he cited above *specifically* command Gentile believers to observe the Sabbath. All I'm seeing is SDA smoke and mirrors. Comments?
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    I was in a discussion with yet another SDA and I explained to him that I could not find one verse under the New Covenant that *specifically* commands Gentile believers to observe the Sabbath. Yet he said this below:

    I could find a number of verses in the Bible telling gentiles to observe the Sabbath.

    Isaiah 56:5-8 specifically calls out gentiles for Sabbath observance.
    Isaiah 66:23 gentiles as part of "all mankind" are to keep Sabbath for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth. "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
    Acts 13 "almost the entire city " of GENTILES shows up "the next SABBATH to hear Gospel preaching"
    Acts 15 "Moses being preached every SABBATH" is a key detail in the solution "for gentile Christians"

    The point remains for those who have 66 books in their Bibles.

    "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12


    I'm not seeing where any of those verses that he cited above *specifically* command Gentile believers to observe the Sabbath. All I'm seeing is SDA smoke and mirrors. Comments?
    The position found in Isaiah 56 hinges on what is meant by "joined themselves to the Lord." With regard to Isaiah 66, the point seems forced as the text does not say that the nations will be keeping the Sabbaths, only that just like the Sabbaths will never end, men will forever worship the Lord.

    Acts 13 speaks about Paul entering into Synagogues, which are not Gentile Churches.

    Acts 15 mentions that Moses is being preached among the Jews living in the diaspora. The presumption is that Moses is being preached to Jews, who may be offended by certain Gentile practices.

    With regard to Revelation 14:12, the saints who keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus are Jewish believers, as we see in Revelation 12:17.

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    Re: 'Sabbath'

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    The position found in Isaiah 56 hinges on what is meant by "joined themselves to the Lord." With regard to Isaiah 66, the point seems forced as the text does not say that the nations will be keeping the Sabbaths, only that just like the Sabbaths will never end, men will forever worship the Lord.

    Acts 13 speaks about Paul entering into Synagogues, which are not Gentile Churches.

    Acts 15 mentions that Moses is being preached among the Jews living in the diaspora. The presumption is that Moses is being preached to Jews, who may be offended by certain Gentile practices.

    With regard to Revelation 14:12, the saints who keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus are Jewish believers, as we see in Revelation 12:17.
    With SDA's, many of their points seem forced into the text. In regards to Revelation 14:12, it doesn't say "10" commandments. The 10 commandments are the letter of the law that condemns: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

    The moral precepts of 9 of the 10 commandments are repeated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

    1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
    2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
    3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
    4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
    5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
    6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
    7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
    9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
    10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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