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Thread: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

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    The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Daniel 7:2 Daniel spoke, saying, I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other.

    As most of you know, the Hebrew and Greek word for "wind" also means "spirit." Daniel says the four winds/spirits of heaven stir up the Great Sea. Then the beasts arise. Would you agree? If so, when did this happen in ancient history?

    In my view, the stirring up of the Great Sea hasn't happen yet. Zechariah 6 explains that the four winds/spirits of heaven are actually chariots with horsemen. These are the same four colors of horse in the first four seals of Revelation 6. Once that connection is understood, then we should be able to research the matter further. Four winds/spirits/chariots. This is who/what stirs up the Great Sea BEFORE the four beasts arise. What does scripture say about this event?

    Habakkuk 3:
    8 O Lord, were You displeased with the rivers, Was Your anger against the rivers, Was Your wrath against the sea, That You rode on Your horses, Your chariots of salvation?... 10 The mountains saw You and trembled; The overflowing of the water passed by. The deep uttered its voice, And lifted its hands on high. 11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation; At the light of Your arrows they went, At the shining of Your glittering spear. 12 You marched through the land in indignation; You trampled the nations in anger. 13 You went forth for the salvation of Your people, For salvation with Your Anointed. [Christ]

    Habakkuk 3:8 LXX Wast thou angry, O Lord, with the rivers? or was thy wrath against the rivers, or thine anger against the sea? for thou wilt mount on thine horses, and thy chariots are salvation.

    Psalm 89:8 LXX O Lord God of hosts, who is like to thee? thou art mighty, O Lord, and thy truth is round about thee. 9 Thou rulest the power of the sea; and thou calmest the tumult of its waves. 10 Thou has brought down the proud as one that is slain; and with the arm of thy power thou has scattered thine enemies.


    Could this be what Daniel saw? The Lord and His chariots of salvation coming? If so, the four beasts rise up after Jesus comes for the not at all hidden or secret rapture/wrath event. Jesus Himself said the following pertaining to His coming:

    Luke 21:25
    And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 mens hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

    Jesus also ties His coming to the roaring of the sea. He also talks about signs in the sun and moon, just as Habakkuk stated. So it seems from scripture that the stirring of the Great Sea that Daniel saw is the lead up to the rapture/wrath. THEN the four beasts arise. (Most haven't figured out that the rapture and wrath of the Lamb are one and the same event. One group saved, and one group punished. But, that is another matter.) Therefore, the ancient kingdom theory doesn't seem to hold water. The four beasts are all post-rapture beasts.

    Further, if you think about the ocean tidal currents and the moon's gravity, these things make sense. If the sun and moon were to stop in one position in the sky for an extended period, the sudden change would cause a massive disruption of the normal tidal currents and there would be many tidal waves and extremely rough seas. Far greater than any mere storm. What we know today about the moon's gravitational effect on the tides makes perfect sense for what scripture says will happen at the coming of Jesus.

    However, I realize many do not believe there is a rapture, or do not believe that the second coming of Jesus is more than one event, so they are unlikely to accept these things I have presented. For those who think the four beasts are about ancient history, when did the four winds/spirits/chariots of heaven stir up the Great Sea in ancient history? Don't you think that is an important issue to resolve before we start assuming what/who the beasts are? Of course we could just make it figurative so we can quickly dismiss it, like many other scriptures. But, we are told about the four winds of heaven stirring up the Great Sea for a reason, imo. What say you?


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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    As I understand it [as a pre-tribber], Luke 21:25-27 [and even v.36] is not referring to our Rapture, but is describing His Second Coming to the earth [for the earthly MK] and the time period that immediately precedes and leads up to His Second Coming to the earth [i.e. the trib / 7-yrs / 70th-Wk / start of the DOTL time period ("in the night")]. ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come [etc]" refer to His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK [aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER"]) and not to the time of our Rapture. [see vv.27 and 36 in this context].

    Those in the trib are instructed via this passage to "watch... and pray always, [in order] that ye may [have strength] to [actively] flee out of [each and every one of] these things certain to come to pass [on the earth, during the trib] and to stand before the Son of man [His 'Second Coming to the earth' designation]." This isn't a "rapture" verse or passage (but what follows our rapture in the time period leading up to His Second Coming to the earth [which I see as a time period of 7-yrs duration by comparing Dan9:27a with 2Th2:9 [i.e. 2Th2's three points of time, regarding the 'man of sin', his beginning (2Th2:9a), middle (2Th2:4), end (2Th2:8) [same as Dan9:27's three details]; as well as what we see in Rev4-5 and Rev19 when held up to other Scriptures, but I don't want to go into all that right now...]).

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    As I understand it [as a pre-tribber], Luke 21:25-27 [and even v.36] is not referring to our Rapture, but is describing His Second Coming to the earth [for the earthly MK] and the time period that immediately precedes and leads up to His Second Coming to the earth [i.e. the trib / 7-yrs / 70th-Wk / start of the DOTL time period ("in the night")]. ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come [etc]" refer to His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK [aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER"]) and not to the time of our Rapture. [see vv.27 and 36 in this context].

    Those in the trib are instructed via this passage to "watch... and pray always, [in order] that ye may [have strength] to [actively] flee out of [each and every one of] these things certain to come to pass [on the earth, during the trib] and to stand before the Son of man [His 'Second Coming to the earth' designation]." This isn't a "rapture" verse or passage (but what follows our rapture in the time period leading up to His Second Coming to the earth [which I see as a time period of 7-yrs duration by comparing Dan9:27a with 2Th2:9 [i.e. 2Th2's three points of time, regarding the 'man of sin', his beginning (2Th2:9a), middle (2Th2:4), end (2Th2:8) [same as Dan9:27's three details]; as well as what we see in Rev4-5 and Rev19 when held up to other Scriptures, but I don't want to go into all that right now...]).
    I pretty much agree with you. Except for Luke 21:25-27 not being about the rapture. I believe it is. The problem is that most read the OD and assume it about one event, when actually they asked Jesus three questions. All three questions involve different times.

    When will the (3rd in my view) temple be destroyed? This happens way after the rapture.

    What are the signs of your coming? Which Jesus described in detail. His coming for the rapture, imo.

    What are the signs of the end of the age/world? This is the day no one knows the day or hour. The end of the Millennium.

    The rapture is by no means a hidden or secret event as most teach. It will be obvious to all what is going on. Including signs that precede it. Jesus answers all three question in the OD even though they are three totally different subjects and times. Btw, Jesus does come down to earth at the rapture. After the saints are caught up to meet Him in the air, He comes down in wrath to those left behind and devastates them.

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Reading Zechariah it seems these winds went out BEFORE the 2nd year of Darius. Nothing future to it at all.

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Reading Zechariah it seems these winds went out BEFORE the 2nd year of Darius. Nothing future to it at all.
    Would not dan 7 coincide with rev 13? Does this happen twice?

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Would not dan 7 coincide with rev 13? Does this happen twice?
    Dan 7 starts way back around 550 BC. However these beasts cover a long time.

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Would not dan 7 coincide with rev 13? Does this happen twice?
    Yes it does happen twice once from Antiochus Epiphanies and once by Nero

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Yes it does happen twice once from Antiochus Epiphanies and once by Nero
    What has Nero got to do with Antiochus?

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    I pretty much agree with you. Except for Luke 21:25-27 not being about the rapture. I believe it is. The problem is that most read the OD and assume it about one event, when actually they asked Jesus three questions. All three questions involve different times.

    When will the (3rd in my view) temple be destroyed? This happens way after the rapture.

    What are the signs of your coming? Which Jesus described in detail. His coming for the rapture, imo.

    What are the signs of the end of the age/world? This is the day no one knows the day or hour. The end of the Millennium.

    The rapture is by no means a hidden or secret event as most teach. It will be obvious to all what is going on. Including signs that precede it. Jesus answers all three question in the OD even though they are three totally different subjects and times. Btw, Jesus does come down to earth at the rapture. After the saints are caught up to meet Him in the air, He comes down in wrath to those left behind and devastates them.
    Are you saying that the temple will be destroyed (per the question of the disciples) after the rapture? If this is the case, where does the destruction in 70 AD fit in?

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Dan 7 starts way back around 550 BC. However these beasts cover a long time.
    What evidence do you have for this position?

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    What has Nero got to do with Antiochus?

    I believe that Antiochus was the OT beast and Nero the NT beast so the forth beast in daniel 7 was Antiochus and rev 13 sea beast was Nero as sin and morelity in the bible and history seams to repeat itself

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    I believe that the reference to the "sea" in chapter 7 of Daniel is a reference to the nations that surround the Mediterranean sea. The "sea" are the peoples and nations, not the water.

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I believe that the reference to the "sea" in chapter 7 of Daniel is a reference to the nations that surround the Mediterranean sea. The "sea" are the peoples and nations, not the water.
    The sea is the literal sea surrounding patmos. In dan 7 it is reffered to the "great" sea. The beast rises up from the pit in the earth which is below this sea.

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Dan 7 starts way back around 550 BC. However these beasts cover a long time.
    Ummm.... The beast are 4 kings then who are they?

    Srcipture does not say they come up separately.....

    And scripture show that they are on earth at the same time???

    What sayest thou?

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    Re: The Four Winds/Spirits of Heaven Stir Up the Great Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Reading Zechariah it seems these winds went out BEFORE the 2nd year of Darius. Nothing future to it at all.
    The four horsemen, also referenced in Revelation 6, are about ancient history? I don't think so. ALL the prophets prophesied about the same time period. The time of the end, not the present. Enoch, Moses, Jeremiah, Jesus, etc. All spoke about the same thing. The end. Why do we assume they were only talking to the people in their day?

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