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Thread: What is the New Birth?

  1. #1

    What is the New Birth?

    So what is the New Birth to you? Is it regular obedience to God's word, an attempt to emulate Christ? Is it a spiritual experience? Is it conversion to Christianity? Is it adoption of the lordship of Christ over your life. It is the regeneration of your spirit to become Christ like?

    Perhaps you think it is all these things? Personally, I find the New Birth described very little in the Scriptures, and possibly for good reason. If all we do is have a simple formula for conversion--a one-time experience--we may miss out on all that Christianity is really supposed to be?

    No, I hear the Scriptures talking about other aspects of the New Birth. I hear that we are taken captive to obey Christ like a slave to his master. I hear about becoming married to Christ so that we leave our old life behind to marry into a brand new life.

    I also hear that when we completely commit to obedience to God's word we simultaneously commit to Christ himself, and become enabled, spiritually, to emulate Christ, producing in our lives his very own life.

    I also think that as under the Law of Moses men were promised a blessing for their obedience so also in Christianity we are promised a blessing for our obedience to Christ. In adopting his religious system, apart from the Law, we find ourselves filled and empowered with the Holy Spirit, able to declare with authority the word of God.

    In sum the New Birth is a complete abandonment of the sin nature we were endowed with by Adam. We leave our independence behind, and embrace Christ as our lord. In return we get an endowment of God's Spirit, marking us as his own, as his temple for dwelling in. And we thus have eternal life, just as that same life is in His Son.

    This New Birth is more than a one-time experience. It embraces a life of obedience, with no trace of respect for the independent lifestyle of the flesh, which characterizes humanity in its fallen state. What do you think?

  2. #2
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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So what is the New Birth to you? Is it regular obedience to God's word, an attempt to emulate Christ? Is it a spiritual experience? Is it conversion to Christianity? Is it adoption of the lordship of Christ over your life. It is the regeneration of your spirit to become Christ like?

    Perhaps you think it is all these things? Personally, I find the New Birth described very little in the Scriptures, and possibly for good reason. If all we do is have a simple formula for conversion--a one-time experience--we may miss out on all that Christianity is really supposed to be?

    No, I hear the Scriptures talking about other aspects of the New Birth. I hear that we are taken captive to obey Christ like a slave to his master. I hear about becoming married to Christ so that we leave our old life behind to marry into a brand new life.

    I also hear that when we completely commit to obedience to God's word we simultaneously commit to Christ himself, and become enabled, spiritually, to emulate Christ, producing in our lives his very own life.

    I also think that as under the Law of Moses men were promised a blessing for their obedience so also in Christianity we are promised a blessing for our obedience to Christ. In adopting his religious system, apart from the Law, we find ourselves filled and empowered with the Holy Spirit, able to declare with authority the word of God.

    In sum the New Birth is a complete abandonment of the sin nature we were endowed with by Adam. We leave our independence behind, and embrace Christ as our lord. In return we get an endowment of God's Spirit, marking us as his own, as his temple for dwelling in. And we thus have eternal life, just as that same life is in His Son.

    This New Birth is more than a one-time experience. It embraces a life of obedience, with no trace of respect for the independent lifestyle of the flesh, which characterizes humanity in its fallen state. What do you think?
    The New Birth has TWO purposes. In God's plan for man, He stated that He would make man (1) in His image and likeness, and (2) FOR the purpose of subduing and ruling the earth, sea and sky and all that is in them (Gen.1:26-28).

    (1)
    For God to have a man in His image and likeness, the man has no other way to achieve this except to HAVE GOD'S NATURE. No matter how many virtues a dog may have, loyalty, forgiveness, pleasure in his owner, hunter, retriever, watchdog and companion, he can NEVER EXPRESS Mankind. Likewise, man with all his attributes and intricacy, even before the fall, Man can NEVER EXPRESS God. When Adam was made God caused all the animals to pass before Adam. The animals were "good" (Gen.1:20-21), and Adam appreciated them and took the time to name every one. But at the end of this naming-marathon, we have a rather sad ending for something so "good". Genesis 2:20 records that, "... but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him." The grammar of this verse would indicate and imply that the parade of animals was not only to name them, but to find a partner "up to his (Adam's) standard". This is the meaning of the word "meet".

    So God lets Adam sleep and takes a bone from his side to make one "up to his standard", and Adam calls her "WO-man ... because she was taken out of Man" (2:23). Here was something made from his BONE - the marrow containing the DNA, stem cells and blood of the man. That is, the Wo-man was the SAME as HIS VERY MAKE-UP. Eve was not called Eve at first. She was only called Eve after the promise of God concerning the "Seed". She is called "WO-man" because "she was taken out of the man" and possesses the man's nature. So also is the Rebirth. It is not there to raise a man from "spiritual death" - concept unknown to scripture. The Re-Birth is to impart God's divine nature to man. So it is called a BIRTH.

    In Genesis 1:11-12 God made an unbending Law. Everything that has seed in itself will bring forth the same specie. When anything is born, the resulting offspring has exactly the same attributes to the mother and/or father. The Re-Birth is effected by the Holy Spirit so that man can partake of the divine nature and life of God for the fulfilling of His purpose to have a man in His "image and likeness". So 2nd Peter 1:4 says; "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust", and Romans 8:29 says; "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Note that this verse does not say "predestinated to be SAVED"- as some would have it. It is the eternal council of the Almighty to have "many brethren conformed to the image of Christ".

    (2)
    It would seem that Lucifer, chiefest of angels, was the ruler of the earth up to Adam. Through his rebellion and subsequent activities this earth became a "tohu-bohu" (literal Hebrew for "a chaos"). God could not indefinitely look upon such corruption and so He covered the earth with water and switched the heavenly lights "out". Later, He restores the earth to a pristine condition in six days of 24 hours and sets His new chosen ruler in a Garden of Fellowship with the command to subdue (indicating that a rebellion was already in progress), and rule the earth and its environs of sea and sky. Now we learn that God, in His choice for a ruler and owner of His goods, does this ownership and rule via INHERITANCE. To Abraham is promised the Land and to His HEIR (Rom.4:13). And Abraham, knowing that the inheritance of the Land would not be in his time, chooses and HEIR from another line. But God says NO! Your HEIR will come from you and Sarah, and so Isaac is the SON OF PROMISE - and HEIR by God's designation and intervention. Ishmael, who receives a blessing, is not the HEIR.

    Now this piece of information is crucial to understanding the RE-Birth. NO MAN CAN ASCEND A THRONE UNLESS HE IS BORN OF THE KING (or Queen). So Hebrews 1:2 tells of Jesus - the Chiefest of HEIRS, "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." Our Lord Jesus is set to be owner and ruler of the universe, and the reason is that He is "HIS SON" - the Son of the Owner. The birth of Jesus to God (via the Holy Spirit) is decisive to His INHERITANCE. He must be a SON. Now, concerning this little corner of the universe - the Earth, the council of God was NOT that "a" Man would rule the earth, but "... let THEM (plural) have dominion". It is God's good pleasure to share the inheritance of this earth WITH His Son Jesus. But the INHERITANCE IS DEPENDENT ON BIRTH, SO THE RE-BIRTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CRUCIAL TO BEING AN HEIR! Galatians 4:4-7 tells who will INHERIT - who are HEIRS. NOT those under Law, but those who are SONS!

    4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."


    That is John 3:3 say that we cannot SEE the Kingdom unless we experience the New and Re-Birth from above (Lit Gk.). RE-birth establishes God's chosen line for the INHERITANCE - THE EARTH. ONLY the sons of God, born by a new and heavenly and divine BIRTH, NOT OF THE WOMB as Nicodemus would have it, but by the Holy Spirit - very God Himself.

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So what is the New Birth to you? Is it regular obedience to God's word, an attempt to emulate Christ? Is it a spiritual experience? Is it conversion to Christianity? Is it adoption of the lordship of Christ over your life. It is the regeneration of your spirit to become Christ like?

    Perhaps you think it is all these things? Personally, I find the New Birth described very little in the Scriptures, and possibly for good reason. If all we do is have a simple formula for conversion--a one-time experience--we may miss out on all that Christianity is really supposed to be?

    No, I hear the Scriptures talking about other aspects of the New Birth. I hear that we are taken captive to obey Christ like a slave to his master. I hear about becoming married to Christ so that we leave our old life behind to marry into a brand new life.

    I also hear that when we completely commit to obedience to God's word we simultaneously commit to Christ himself, and become enabled, spiritually, to emulate Christ, producing in our lives his very own life.

    I also think that as under the Law of Moses men were promised a blessing for their obedience so also in Christianity we are promised a blessing for our obedience to Christ. In adopting his religious system, apart from the Law, we find ourselves filled and empowered with the Holy Spirit, able to declare with authority the word of God.

    In sum the New Birth is a complete abandonment of the sin nature we were endowed with by Adam. We leave our independence behind, and embrace Christ as our lord. In return we get an endowment of God's Spirit, marking us as his own, as his temple for dwelling in. And we thus have eternal life, just as that same life is in His Son.

    This New Birth is more than a one-time experience. It embraces a life of obedience, with no trace of respect for the independent lifestyle of the flesh, which characterizes humanity in its fallen state. What do you think?
    I agree that New Birth is a regeneration from the old to the new. I also concur that it's not a one-off experience, it needs to be sustained by dying daily in the flesh to enrich the spirit which is alive in Christ. It is a rejection of the old self with its weakness and imperfection and embracing the purity and perfection of the new in Christ. With it comes the abundance of the riches of his glory which is denied to the unregenerate.

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So what is the New Birth to you? Is it regular obedience to God's word, an attempt to emulate Christ? Is it a spiritual experience? Is it conversion to Christianity? Is it adoption of the lordship of Christ over your life. It is the regeneration of your spirit to become Christ like?

    Perhaps you think it is all these things? Personally, I find the New Birth described very little in the Scriptures, and possibly for good reason. If all we do is have a simple formula for conversion--a one-time experience--we may miss out on all that Christianity is really supposed to be?

    No, I hear the Scriptures talking about other aspects of the New Birth. I hear that we are taken captive to obey Christ like a slave to his master. I hear about becoming married to Christ so that we leave our old life behind to marry into a brand new life.

    I also hear that when we completely commit to obedience to God's word we simultaneously commit to Christ himself, and become enabled, spiritually, to emulate Christ, producing in our lives his very own life.

    I also think that as under the Law of Moses men were promised a blessing for their obedience so also in Christianity we are promised a blessing for our obedience to Christ. In adopting his religious system, apart from the Law, we find ourselves filled and empowered with the Holy Spirit, able to declare with authority the word of God.

    In sum the New Birth is a complete abandonment of the sin nature we were endowed with by Adam. We leave our independence behind, and embrace Christ as our lord. In return we get an endowment of God's Spirit, marking us as his own, as his temple for dwelling in. And we thus have eternal life, just as that same life is in His Son.

    This New Birth is more than a one-time experience. It embraces a life of obedience, with no trace of respect for the independent lifestyle of the flesh, which characterizes humanity in its fallen state. What do you think?
    The concept of the New Birth is not a Biblical idea as I said before. The concept of a New Birth is at home with those who believe in Reincarnation. The Bible doesn't teach reincarnation; it teaches resurrection.

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    The concept of the New Birth is not a Biblical idea as I said before. The concept of a New Birth is at home with those who believe in Reincarnation. The Bible doesn't teach reincarnation; it teaches resurrection.
    Hardly. The rebirth has almost nothing to do with resurrection*. All men will be resurrected, but few are "Born Again", or "Born Anew" (lit Gk.). That is exactly what Nicodemus thought, but the Lord waives the flesh, or the BODY, when it come to the New Birth. It only has to do with the human spirit. John 3:6; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." The huge difference is shown adequately in ...
    • 1st Peter 1:23; "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." It is evident that our BODIES are corruptible, die of some defect, and mould to the elements after that - even after the rebirth.
    • 1st John 3:9; "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Scripture is clear, especially in Romans Chapter 7, that our flesh, or "bodies of death" (7:24) continue to sin. 1st John 3:9 addresses ONLY the human spirit which ALONE is born again and thus does not sin. That is why the incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians 5 is to be slain, "... that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1st Corinthians 5:5)


    * It is granted that the rebirth, in which the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our spirits, is the guarantee, or "earnest" of the resurrection (Eph.1:13-14). And it is granted that the man who is "Born from Above" (Gk.) will have "celestial glory" in resurrection. But the Rebirth, as shown in John 3:6, has ONLY to do with the human spirit.

  6. #6

    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The New Birth has TWO purposes. In God's plan for man, He stated that He would make man (1) in His image and likeness, and (2) FOR the purpose of subduing and ruling the earth, sea and sky and all that is in them (Gen.1:26-28).

    (1)
    For God to have a man in His image and likeness, the man has no other way to achieve this except to HAVE GOD'S NATURE. No matter how many virtues a dog may have, loyalty, forgiveness, pleasure in his owner, hunter, retriever, watchdog and companion, he can NEVER EXPRESS Mankind. Likewise, man with all his attributes and intricacy, even before the fall, Man can NEVER EXPRESS God. When Adam was made God caused all the animals to pass before Adam. The animals were "good" (Gen.1:20-21), and Adam appreciated them and took the time to name every one. But at the end of this naming-marathon, we have a rather sad ending for something so "good". Genesis 2:20 records that, "... but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him." The grammar of this verse would indicate and imply that the parade of animals was not only to name them, but to find a partner "up to his (Adam's) standard". This is the meaning of the word "meet".

    So God lets Adam sleep and takes a bone from his side to make one "up to his standard", and Adam calls her "WO-man ... because she was taken out of Man" (2:23). Here was something made from his BONE - the marrow containing the DNA, stem cells and blood of the man. That is, the Wo-man was the SAME as HIS VERY MAKE-UP. Eve was not called Eve at first. She was only called Eve after the promise of God concerning the "Seed". She is called "WO-man" because "she was taken out of the man" and possesses the man's nature. So also is the Rebirth. It is not there to raise a man from "spiritual death" - concept unknown to scripture. The Re-Birth is to impart God's divine nature to man. So it is called a BIRTH.

    In Genesis 1:11-12 God made an unbending Law. Everything that has seed in itself will bring forth the same specie. When anything is born, the resulting offspring has exactly the same attributes to the mother and/or father. The Re-Birth is effected by the Holy Spirit so that man can partake of the divine nature and life of God for the fulfilling of His purpose to have a man in His "image and likeness". So 2nd Peter 1:4 says; "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust", and Romans 8:29 says; "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Note that this verse does not say "predestinated to be SAVED"- as some would have it. It is the eternal council of the Almighty to have "many brethren conformed to the image of Christ".

    (2)
    It would seem that Lucifer, chiefest of angels, was the ruler of the earth up to Adam. Through his rebellion and subsequent activities this earth became a "tohu-bohu" (literal Hebrew for "a chaos"). God could not indefinitely look upon such corruption and so He covered the earth with water and switched the heavenly lights "out". Later, He restores the earth to a pristine condition in six days of 24 hours and sets His new chosen ruler in a Garden of Fellowship with the command to subdue (indicating that a rebellion was already in progress), and rule the earth and its environs of sea and sky. Now we learn that God, in His choice for a ruler and owner of His goods, does this ownership and rule via INHERITANCE. To Abraham is promised the Land and to His HEIR (Rom.4:13). And Abraham, knowing that the inheritance of the Land would not be in his time, chooses and HEIR from another line. But God says NO! Your HEIR will come from you and Sarah, and so Isaac is the SON OF PROMISE - and HEIR by God's designation and intervention. Ishmael, who receives a blessing, is not the HEIR.

    Now this piece of information is crucial to understanding the RE-Birth. NO MAN CAN ASCEND A THRONE UNLESS HE IS BORN OF THE KING (or Queen). So Hebrews 1:2 tells of Jesus - the Chiefest of HEIRS, "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." Our Lord Jesus is set to be owner and ruler of the universe, and the reason is that He is "HIS SON" - the Son of the Owner. The birth of Jesus to God (via the Holy Spirit) is decisive to His INHERITANCE. He must be a SON. Now, concerning this little corner of the universe - the Earth, the council of God was NOT that "a" Man would rule the earth, but "... let THEM (plural) have dominion". It is God's good pleasure to share the inheritance of this earth WITH His Son Jesus. But the INHERITANCE IS DEPENDENT ON BIRTH, SO THE RE-BIRTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS CRUCIAL TO BEING AN HEIR! Galatians 4:4-7 tells who will INHERIT - who are HEIRS. NOT those under Law, but those who are SONS!

    4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."


    That is John 3:3 say that we cannot SEE the Kingdom unless we experience the New and Re-Birth from above (Lit Gk.). RE-birth establishes God's chosen line for the INHERITANCE - THE EARTH. ONLY the sons of God, born by a new and heavenly and divine BIRTH, NOT OF THE WOMB as Nicodemus would have it, but by the Holy Spirit - very God Himself.
    I'm not saying I agree with everything you say here, but overall your insight is, in my opinion, a brilliant one! Thanks for that inspired response!!

  7. #7

    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    The concept of the New Birth is not a Biblical idea as I said before. The concept of a New Birth is at home with those who believe in Reincarnation. The Bible doesn't teach reincarnation; it teaches resurrection.
    Obviously this question was addressed to those who believe in the New Birth. But Cady, your responses are always welcomed, nonetheless. The New Birth is, of course, referenced in the Scriptures, and not in regard to Reincarnation.

  8. #8

    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Hardly. The rebirth has almost nothing to do with resurrection*. All men will be resurrected, but few are "Born Again", or "Born Anew" (lit Gk.). That is exactly what Nicodemus thought, but the Lord waives the flesh, or the BODY, when it come to the New Birth. It only has to do with the human spirit. John 3:6; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." The huge difference is shown adequately in ...
    • 1st Peter 1:23; "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." It is evident that our BODIES are corruptible, die of some defect, and mould to the elements after that - even after the rebirth.
    • 1st John 3:9; "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." Scripture is clear, especially in Romans Chapter 7, that our flesh, or "bodies of death" (7:24) continue to sin. 1st John 3:9 addresses ONLY the human spirit which ALONE is born again and thus does not sin. That is why the incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians 5 is to be slain, "... that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1st Corinthians 5:5)


    * It is granted that the rebirth, in which the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our spirits, is the guarantee, or "earnest" of the resurrection (Eph.1:13-14). And it is granted that the man who is "Born from Above" (Gk.) will have "celestial glory" in resurrection. But the Rebirth, as shown in John 3:6, has ONLY to do with the human spirit.
    I think you've made a great argument in this regard. It is less about the resurrection and more about our *spiritual birth* into the Kingdom. Since the Fall mankind was disqualified from the inheritance of the earth. The willful introduction of sin is carried on down through the generations of mankind, and we are *all* disqualified from inheriting the earth on an eternal basis. Being born separated from the word of God *as it concerns the human condition* we are all separated from God's word with respect to the eternity of the earth itself.

    In order to obtain the earth on an eternal basis we must be aligned with the word of God ourselves on an eternal basis. And that perpetual state of coexisting with and obeying the word of God was broken in the Garden. And so, Man no longer has an eternal guarantee of inheriting the earth. It is all about Man's relationship to God's eternal word. If we have even the smallest break from it in our nature we cannot inherit the earth forever.

    So as you say, we must be born anew, in order to show that our eternal relationship with God and His word has been restored. The only way to do this is by obtaining, as an eternal gift, Christ's spirit, so that we obtain his own record of sinlessness. In other words, he forgives us for all time. In this way we can obtain the inheritance of the earth on an eternal basis, just as God by His word originally expressed it.

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Hardly. The rebirth has almost nothing to do with resurrection*.
    Of course. That's my point. Rebirth is the initial stages of reincarnation. But the Bible does not teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection. Jesus said "that which is born of flesh is flesh" and rebirth is being born of the flesh again.

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Obviously this question was addressed to those who believe in the New Birth. But Cady, your responses are always welcomed, nonetheless. The New Birth is, of course, referenced in the Scriptures, and not in regard to Reincarnation.
    Where are your scriptures then?

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    The concept of the New Birth is not a Biblical idea as I said before. The concept of a New Birth is at home with those who believe in Reincarnation. The Bible doesn't teach reincarnation; it teaches resurrection.
    Is born from above not a new birth for the one that experiences it?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I'm not saying I agree with everything you say here, but overall your insight is, in my opinion, a brilliant one! Thanks for that inspired response!!
    Thank you for your kind words.

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Of course. That's my point. Rebirth is the initial stages of reincarnation. But the Bible does not teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection. Jesus said "that which is born of flesh is flesh" and rebirth is being born of the flesh again.
    OK. Seems I misread your grammar. Your opening statement that rebirth was not a Biblical concept probably colored the rest. I apologize. But one thing: In our common usage of words we make "re-birth" the same as "Born again". There is a difference. "Rebirth" implies a death, and new beginning. That is what Nicodemus understood, so he addresses the womb. Christians understand it even more erroneously. They think that Adam died spiritually and he must then be "Re-born" spiritually. This cannot be for this theory presupposes that (1) Adam had spirituality before he fell, and it must be renewed, and (2) that Adam died in his spirit - a concept that is not found in the whole Bible. The contrary is shown. Spirits CANNOT die. Angels are spirits and they cannot die (Ps.104:4; Heb.1:7; Lk.20:36).

    "Born AGAIN" means a second, or subsequent birth IN ADDITION TO the first. Adam is our prime example. He is fully a man and without sin before the fall. God saw that once Adam was made, all things, in contrast to the other things He did in those six days, were "VERY good" (Gen.1:31). But Adam, perfect man that he was, still lacked something. He had not yet eaten of the Tree of Life. When a man eats fruit from a tree the fruit is assimilated by the man and becomes "organically" ONE with the man. We are what we eat. The health fanatic who is careful what he eats looks and acts so differently from those who live on fast foods. In the case of the Tree of Life, the fruit would have IMPARTED God's LIFE to the man. The whole Gospel of John is dedicated to showing how God's LIFE gets into man (Jn.20:30-31).

    As our Lord spoke to Nicodemus, He presents this problem again. Men have had their birth from their mother's womb, but must be born AN-OTHER TIME - or, "born AGAIN", or strictly, "born A SECOND TIME". This SUBSEQUENT birth, says our Lord to Nicodemus, IS NOT ONE OF THE FLESH. It is a birth by the Holy Spirit and ONLY in the spirit of man. It is primarily there to impart the LIFE of God into the man to equip him with the divine nature and equip him to be in God's image and likeness.

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Is born from above not a new birth for the one that experiences it?
    Yes, it is a new birth. But it is not a "rebirth."

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    Re: What is the New Birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK. Seems I misread your grammar. Your opening statement that rebirth was not a Biblical concept probably colored the rest. I apologize. But one thing: In our common usage of words we make "re-birth" the same as "Born again". There is a difference. "Rebirth" implies a death, and new beginning. That is what Nicodemus understood, so he addresses the womb. Christians understand it even more erroneously. They think that Adam died spiritually and he must then be "Re-born" spiritually. This cannot be for this theory presupposes that (1) Adam had spirituality before he fell, and it must be renewed, and (2) that Adam died in his spirit - a concept that is not found in the whole Bible. The contrary is shown. Spirits CANNOT die. Angels are spirits and they cannot die (Ps.104:4; Heb.1:7; Lk.20:36).

    "Born AGAIN" means a second, or subsequent birth IN ADDITION TO the first. Adam is our prime example. He is fully a man and without sin before the fall. God saw that once Adam was made, all things, in contrast to the other things He did in those six days, were "VERY good" (Gen.1:31). But Adam, perfect man that he was, still lacked something. He had not yet eaten of the Tree of Life. When a man eats fruit from a tree the fruit is assimilated by the man and becomes "organically" ONE with the man. We are what we eat. The health fanatic who is careful what he eats looks and acts so differently from those who live on fast foods. In the case of the Tree of Life, the fruit would have IMPARTED God's LIFE to the man. The whole Gospel of John is dedicated to showing how God's LIFE gets into man (Jn.20:30-31).

    As our Lord spoke to Nicodemus, He presents this problem again. Men have had their birth from their mother's womb, but must be born AN-OTHER TIME - or, "born AGAIN", or strictly, "born A SECOND TIME". This SUBSEQUENT birth, says our Lord to Nicodemus, IS NOT ONE OF THE FLESH. It is a birth by the Holy Spirit and ONLY in the spirit of man. It is primarily there to impart the LIFE of God into the man to equip him with the divine nature and equip him to be in God's image and likeness.
    Yes. I believe we are on the same page now, though I can't speak to your conclusions from Genesis.

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