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Thread: Things For The Knowing

  1. #1

    Post Things For The Knowing

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    Hello; and welcome to the beginning of a thread of interesting bits and pieces from the Bible.

    A fair amount of non-registered visitors drop by BF dot org everyday. I think it's safe to assume that a number of those visitors drop by looking for useful information. Well; hopefully this thread will make stopping here worth their while.

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  2. #2

    Post Re: Things For The Knowing

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    A very common question that pops up now and then is: What is the difference between the Old Testament and the New?

    This major division in the Bible is primarily editorial; viz: it's man-made instead of God-made; but the division is pretty harmless and actually quite useful.

    In a (really small) nutshell:

    1• The simplest difference is chronological, i.e. the Old Testament focuses upon the Jews' religious history prior to Christ's birth, while the New focuses upon the world's introduction to Christianity in connection with Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.

    2• "Old Testament" refers to the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

    3• "New Testament" refers to the covenant that Yhvh's people will eventually agree upon with God as per Jeremiah 31:31-34.

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  3. #3

    Post Re: Things For The Knowing

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    The Length Of A Creation Day

    Gen 1:5b . . And there was evening and there was morning, a first Day.

    According to Gen 1:24-31, God created humans and all land animals on the sixth day; which has to include dinosaurs because on no other day did God create land animals but the sixth. Well; that right there gives us a clue to the length of a creation day because current scientific dating methods have easily proven that dinosaurs preceded human life by several million years.

    So then, in my (private) estimation, the days of creation should be taken to represent epochs of indeterminable length rather than 24-hour events. That's not an unreasonable estimation; for example:

    "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven." (Gen 2:4)

    The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than a 24-hour calendar day; it justifies suggesting that each of the six days of creation were longer than 24 hours apiece too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to interpret sometimes.

    So then, why is it so difficult to accept a six-epoch explanation? Because of the expression "evening and morning"

    The interesting thing is: there were no physical evenings and mornings till the fourth day when the Sun was created and brought on line. So I suggest that the expression "evening and morning" is simply a convenient way to indicate the simultaneous wrap of one epoch and the beginning of another.


    NOTE: Chronologically speaking; physical evenings and mornings indicate overnight, i.e. the days of creation would include no daytime, plus they'd be only twelve hours in length rather than twenty-four.

    Evenings and Mornings themselves are just as ambiguous as yowm due to the fact that there is no specific word for afternoon in the Bible, so evening can indicate the hours from high noon to sunset, while morning can indicate the hours between sunrise and high noon. In that respect, an evening and a morning together would indicate twelve hours of daytime. (cf. John 11:9)

    Anyway; this "day" thing has been a chronic problem for just about everybody who takes Genesis seriously. It's typically assumed that the days of creation consisted of twenty-four hours apiece; so we end up stumped when trying to figure out how to cope with the estimated 4.5 billion-year age of the earth, and factor in the various eras, e.g. Triassic, Jurassic, Mesozoic, Cenozoic, Cretaceous, etc, plus the ice ages and the mass extinction events.

    It just never seems to occur to us that it might be okay in some cases to go ahead and think outside the box, so to speak. When we do that-- when we allow ourselves to think outside the box --that's when we begin to really appreciate the contributions science has made towards providing modern men a window into the Earth's amazing past.


    NOTE: Galileo believed that science and religion are allies rather than enemies-- two different languages telling the same story. In other words: science and religion compliment each other-- science answers questions that religion doesn't answer, and religion answers questions that science cannot answer; viz: science and religion are not enemies; no, to the contrary, science and religion assist each other in their respective quests to get to the bottom of some of the cosmos' greatest mysteries.

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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sa:ji:sdo:de View Post
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    The Length Of A Creation Day

    Gen 1:5b . . And there was evening and there was morning, a first Day.

    According to Gen 1:24-31, God created humans and all land animals on the sixth day; which has to include dinosaurs because on no other day did God create land animals but the sixth. Well; that right there gives us a clue to the length of a creation day because current scientific dating methods have easily proven that dinosaurs preceded human life by several million years.

    So then, in my (private) estimation, the days of creation should be taken to represent epochs of indeterminable length rather than 24-hour events. That's not an unreasonable estimation; for example:

    "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven." (Gen 2:4)

    The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very same word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm in Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time obviously much longer than a 24-hour calendar day; it justifies suggesting that each of the six days of creation were longer than 24 hours apiece too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to interpret sometimes.

    So then, why is it so difficult to accept a six-epoch explanation? Because of the expression "evening and morning"

    The interesting thing is: there were no physical evenings and mornings till the fourth day when the Sun was created and brought on line. So I suggest that the expression "evening and morning" is simply a convenient way to indicate the simultaneous wrap of one epoch and the beginning of another.


    NOTE: Chronologically speaking; physical evenings and mornings indicate overnight, i.e. the days of creation would include no daytime, plus they'd be only twelve hours in length rather than twenty-four.

    Evenings and Mornings themselves are just as ambiguous as yowm due to the fact that there is no specific word for afternoon in the Bible, so evening can indicate the hours from high noon to sunset, while morning can indicate the hours between sunrise and high noon. In that respect, an evening and a morning together would indicate twelve hours of daytime. (cf. John 11:9)

    Anyway; this "day" thing has been a chronic problem for just about everybody who takes Genesis seriously. It's typically assumed that the days of creation consisted of twenty-four hours apiece; so we end up stumped when trying to figure out how to cope with the estimated 4.5 billion-year age of the earth, and factor in the various eras, e.g. Triassic, Jurassic, Mesozoic, Cenozoic, Cretaceous, etc, plus the ice ages and the mass extinction events.

    It just never seems to occur to us that it might be okay in some cases to go ahead and think outside the box, so to speak. When we do that-- when we allow ourselves to think outside the box --that's when we begin to really appreciate the contributions science has made towards providing modern men a window into the Earth's amazing past.


    NOTE: Galileo believed that science and religion are allies rather than enemies-- two different languages telling the same story. In other words: science and religion compliment each other-- science answers questions that religion doesn't answer, and religion answers questions that science cannot answer; viz: science and religion are not enemies; no, to the contrary, science and religion assist each other in their respective quests to get to the bottom of some of the cosmos' greatest mysteries.

    /
    With this understanding, then would that mean that ONE earth's rotation on its axis took millions of years? God says that a day was judged by the Sun rising and setting... Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    With this understanding, then would that mean that ONE earth's rotation on its axis took millions of years? God says that a day was judged by the Sun rising and setting... Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
    I used the wrong wording: Days were not judged by the SUN itself, but by light and darkness. So then the creation of light was imperative to the distinguishing of Ligt and Darkness, which is imperative to the creation of a literal DAY (Full rotation of the earth in position to a single point of light. So then their needs to be a single point of light.

    As you correctly observed, the Sun is not created until after a few days. So there was ANOTHER LIGHT.

    JESUS WAS THAT LIGHT. John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

    Jesus IS the Word of God John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Jesus was with God in the Beginning: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Jesus Created all things: John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    SO when God Spoke, the Word Created what He spoke. Jesus was the light that separated Day from night as the earth turned under Him. So then evening and morning were the first day.

    IMHO...

  6. #6

    Post Re: Things For The Knowing

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    Light

    Gen 1:3 . . Then God said "Let there be light" and there was light.

    The creation of light was a very, very intricate process. First God had to create particulate matter, and along with those particles their specific properties, including mass. Then He had to invent the laws of nature to govern how matter behaves in combination with and/or in the presence of, other kinds of matter in order to generate electromagnetic radiation.

    Light's properties are a bit curious. It exists as waves in a variety of lengths and frequencies, and also as theoretical particles called photons. And though light has no mass; it's influenced by gravity. Light is also quite invisible. For example: you can see the Sun when you look at it, and you can see the Moon when sunlight reflects from its surface. But none of the Sun's light is visible in the void between them and that's because light isn't matter; it's energy.

    The same laws that make it possible for matter to generate electromagnetic radiation also make other conditions possible too; e.g. fire, wind, water, ice, soil, rain, life, centrifugal force, thermodynamics, fusion, dark energy, gravity, atoms, organic molecules, magnetism, color, radiation, refraction, reflection, high energy X-rays and gamma rays, temperature, pressure, force, inertia, sound, friction, and electricity; et al. So the creation of light was a pretty big deal; yet Genesis scarcely gives its origin passing mention.

    Gen 1:1-2 . .The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep

    That statement reveals the planet's condition prior to the creation of light; and no mystery there because sans the natural laws that make light possible, the earth's particulate matter would never have coalesced into something coherent.

    2Cor 4:6 verifies that light wasn't introduced into the cosmos from outside in order to dispel the darkness and brighten things up a bit; but rather, it radiated out of the cosmos from inside-- from itself --indicating that the cosmos was created to be self-illuminating by means of the various interactions of the matter that God made for it; including, but not limited to, the Higgs Boson.

    It's curious to me that most people have no trouble readily conceding that everything else in the first chapter of Genesis is natural, e.g. the cosmos, the earth, water, sky, dry land, the Sun, the Moon, the stars, aqua life, winged life, terra life, flora life, and human life.

    But when it comes to creation's light they choke; finding it impossible within themselves to believe that Genesis just might be consistent in its description of the creative process. I mean, if all those other things are natural, why wouldn't creation's light be natural too? In point of fact, without natural light, planet Earth would become a cold dead world right quick.


    NOTE: 1Tim 6:16 mentions a light that no man has seen, nor can see.

    Back in that day, the only light that people knew much about was visible light. We today know of several kinds of light invisible to the human eye: radio, infrared, ultraviolet, X-ray and gamma-ray. However, those are all natural forms of light. The light spoken on in 1Tim 6:16 is a supernatural kind of light for which humans have no means of detection thus far.

    1Tim 6:16's light is further described by the Greek word aprositos (ap-ros'-ee-tos) which means: inaccessible. In contrast; all natural light is accessible in one way or another.

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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    God created time (beginning) and space (heaven) and matter (earth).

    Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    The earth was an Ocean "planet", not a lava "planet". The earth was without form, so it WAS NOT in the form of a globe. It was a blob of water with a "speck" of earth in the middle.

    Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    God created energy (light) and it was not confined, but shown everywhere. There was no darkness at all.

    Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5a And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.

    God then assigned the light to a point (The WORD [Jesus] is the light - John 8:12). This allowed for Darkness to be created. However the Sun did not exist yet, so the light had to be placed upon something else. The only other objects was the Word, God, or the Holy Spirit. I assume the light was the Creator (The Word - John 1:1-2), which is now known as Jesus Christ. Darkness is simply created when Light is blocked by matter, or if Light is completely absent. To have light and darkness with a globe, light MUST be emanated from a direction, casting a shadow. That is how the earth saw Light and Darkness.

    Gen 1:5b And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    So then the earth began rotation beside the Light (Word of God), which caused it to form into the shape of a globe, and upon one full rotation, "evening and the morning were the first day". Remembering that on the other side of the Light, earth was in darkness. The rotation would also help generate and create magnetic fields ect, ect... And gravity would be demonstrated through the mass.

    IMHO...

  8. #8
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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    What many students of the Bible miss in Genesis 1 and 2 is that:
    • God does not enter into discussion with man about His creation. Was was not there, man is very limited in his intellect, man is known liar and man is prone to "hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom.1:18). That is, he has the truth, comprehends it, but then denies it. Why would God show grand truths to such a person?
    • God does not care one wit what men's speculations are except if they infringe on the truth. Then He judges - and who can stay His hand
    • There are different words in the Hebrew for the process that took place in Genesis 1 and 2, and if used incorrectly lead to confusion

    In Genesis 1 and 2, concerning the creation, THREE different Hebrew words are used. (1) "Bara", meaning "made from nothing" and translated as "created", (2) "Asah", meaning "made from existing materials" and translated as "made" like a carpenter "makes" a table from wood, and (3) "Yatsar", meaning "formed as potter forms a vessel". If students of scripture would acknowledge this and use these words correctly, the information in Genesis 1 and 2 would be understood much better.

    In Genesis 1:1 the word "bara" is used and the sentence in Hebrew has the sense of completion. God "created" (out of nothing) the heaven and the earth - period. Here, a long process is indicated because in Job 38 the angels rejoiced when the earth was made. That means that God first created heaven (for this is the abode of angels), THEN He created angels. And THEN ONLY did He create the earth. This is not to show any impotence on God's side, but His loving care. He made a home for angels before He made the angels. Then He FIRST creates the earth and only later puts His man on it. Again, much later He allows David a home before His Home, the Temple, is built. The time elapse while "Creating" heaven and earth is not to indicate God's impotence. It is there to indicate God's orderliness and care for His creature.

    But when, in verse 16, God "made" ("asah") the lights, the substance of the light was already there. It did not need to be created. It needed to be made "light" to the darkened earth - like opens the curtains of a dark room on a sunny morning. And when God makes man ALL THREE words are used because man is a tripartite being. Isaiah 43:7 informs us, "Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." And truly, when we examine Genesis 2:7, we find this threefold construction evident. "And the LORD God (1) formed man of the dust of the ground, and (2) breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man (2) became a living soul." We find;
    1. Man is "formed" ("yatsar") from the dust, dust already being available
    2. Man receiving the breath of God for human vitality as a human SPIRIT (Jas.2:26) - God's breath, which is "SPIRIT", having been there all the time ("asah")
    3. But man "BECAME" a living soul - some thing that had never been there before was "created" ("bara")- the SOUL of man

    And so 1st Thessalonians 5:23 shows the "whole" man (mentioned twice in the verse). "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    So also the matter dinosaurs. What does God need a million years for? He needs a millionth of a second to "create" TWO dinosaurs who have the seeds of procreation in them. Genesis 1:21 says, "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, ... ." Man, in his impotence, needs millions of years to satisfy his inability to "create" one single thing (for which man has yet brought forth something from nothing?). But God needed a split second - and that, without ANY effort. And within ten gestation periods of a dinosaur, God has populated the earth with dinosaurs.

    C'mon esteemed brothers and sisters. Make your choice. Is the God of the Bible Who He claims to be? In that case, what is too difficult for Him? Or shall we drag Him down to our level of impotence and inability and grant Him a some millions years to do what should take the ALL-Mighty a split second? Perish the thought!

  9. #9

    Post Re: Things For The Knowing

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    To Infinity And Beyond

    Gen 1:16 . . He also made the stars.

    Celestial objects require some special consideration because of their apparent distances and the apparent time it takes for their light to reach the Earth.

    For example: last decade, an analysis of the light that Hubble telescope detected coming from a distant galaxy named A1689-zD1 suggested it's apparent distance at approximately 12.8 billion light years.

    Chronologically; the cosmos' creator began constructing the Earth before He began constructing the stars; which indicates that as a physical structure, the Earth should be older than A1689-zD1. But geologists have pretty good reason to believe the Earth to be only something like 4.5 billion years old; while A1689-zD1 appears to be a minimum 12.8 billion years old.

    So then, it seems reasonable to conclude that A1689-zD1 is Earth's senior by at least 8.3 billion years. But there's a rub. Light's journey through space is complicated by some curious mysteries.

    1• The available data suggests that the universe is expanding in all directions. And not only is it expanding; but the velocity of its expansion isn't steady, nor is it slowing down as might be expected; but rather, contrary to common sense and Newton's standard laws of gravity; the velocity of the cosmos' expansion is accelerating due to a mysterious force which, for convenience sake, has been labeled dark energy.

    Plus, the expansion isn't uniform. Galaxies farthest from our own appear to be moving away faster than those closer in; which means of course that viewed from those farthest galaxies; our own would appear to be moving away faster than those closer in because the expansion is moving us too.

    Ergo: many of the galaxies seen by powerful telescopes are quite a bit more spread out now than when they were born. How much more I don't know; but if the age of the Earth is really and truly 4.5 billion years, then it's my guess the difference is significant.

    2• Light has no detectable mass, yet is effected by gravity; so that light's path through the cosmos is not always the shortest distance between two points; which suggests to me that A1689-zD1 is nearer than its estimated 12.8 billion light years.

    3• Although the speed of light is constant in a vacuum, the void is a bit more complicated due to the fact that it's state isn't steady. There are forces in space influencing not only light's path, but also its velocity. There was a time when scientists sincerely believed that although light could be slowed down, it could not be sped up; now they're not so sure.

    4• Light doesn't decay. In other words: there is no detectable difference in age between the cosmos' first light, and the light emitted by the screen of an iPhone.

    5• The more that scientists study the cosmos, the more things they discover about it that cause them to question what they believed in the past. Today's scientific truth is only valid until another truth comes along to cancel it.

    All the above suggests to me that A1689-zD1's apparent distance has no bearing upon its age; viz: the estimated age of the cosmos is only loosely theoretical rather than actual. In other words: current dating methods are unreliable and subject to revision. It's very possibly true that the Earth really did precede the stars just as the Bible says.

    Now; a consideration that shouldn't be overlooked is that Gen 1:16 refers only to stars visible to the author's naked eye, which would limit the category to those of the Milky Way. In point of fact, as recent as the beginning of the last century, most astronomers sincerely believed that the Milky Way contained the sum total of all the stars in the universe; up until Edwin Hubble showed that the Milky Way is just one of many galaxies-- now estimated to number as many as 200 billion in the observable universe.

    God challenged Abraham to count the stars (Gen 15:5). But of course without optical assistance, Abraham was limited to the stars of the Milky Way; whose apparent diameter is estimated to be a mere 100-150,000 light years.

    The final say of course is the Bible. According to Gen 1:15, stars illuminated the earth on the day that God made them, which was prior to His creation of humanity. In other words: it's not unreasonable to believe that God didn't wait till starlight reached the earth on its own, but punched it straight through in order to begin illuminating the earth immediately.

    But what's the point of putting all those objects out there in space? Well, for one thing, they're not only brain teasers; but they're actually quite pretty. Celestial objects decorate the night sky like the ornamentation people put up during holidays. The night sky would sure be a bore if it was totally black. Decorated with stars; the night sky is like a beautiful tapestry, or a celestial Sistine Chapel.

    "The heavens declare the glory of God, the sky proclaims His handiwork." (Ps 19:2)

    Stars makes better sense that way than to try and find some other meaning for them. I believe the universe is simply a magnificent work of art-- just as intriguing, if not more so, than the works of Picasso, Rembrandt, Michelangelo, Monet, Vermeer, and da Vinci --testifying to the genius of an engineer-artist without peer.

    "For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what He has made." (Rom 1:19-20)

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  10. #10
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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    What many students of the Bible miss in Genesis 1 and 2 is that:
    • God does not enter into discussion with man about His creation. Was was not there, man is very limited in his intellect, man is known liar and man is prone to "hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom.1:18). That is, he has the truth, comprehends it, but then denies it. Why would God show grand truths to such a person?
    • God does not care one wit what men's speculations are except if they infringe on the truth. Then He judges - and who can stay His hand
    • There are different words in the Hebrew for the process that took place in Genesis 1 and 2, and if used incorrectly lead to confusion

    In Genesis 1 and 2, concerning the creation, THREE different Hebrew words are used. (1) "Bara", meaning "made from nothing" and translated as "created", (2) "Asah", meaning "made from existing materials" and translated as "made" like a carpenter "makes" a table from wood, and (3) "Yatsar", meaning "formed as potter forms a vessel". If students of scripture would acknowledge this and use these words correctly, the information in Genesis 1 and 2 would be understood much better.

    In Genesis 1:1 the word "bara" is used and the sentence in Hebrew has the sense of completion. God "created" (out of nothing) the heaven and the earth - period. Here, a long process is indicated because in Job 38 the angels rejoiced when the earth was made. That means that God first created heaven (for this is the abode of angels), THEN He created angels. And THEN ONLY did He create the earth. This is not to show any impotence on God's side, but His loving care. He made a home for angels before He made the angels. Then He FIRST creates the earth and only later puts His man on it. Again, much later He allows David a home before His Home, the Temple, is built. The time elapse while "Creating" heaven and earth is not to indicate God's impotence. It is there to indicate God's orderliness and care for His creature.

    But when, in verse 16, God "made" ("asah") the lights, the substance of the light was already there. It did not need to be created. It needed to be made "light" to the darkened earth - like opens the curtains of a dark room on a sunny morning. And when God makes man ALL THREE words are used because man is a tripartite being. Isaiah 43:7 informs us, "Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." And truly, when we examine Genesis 2:7, we find this threefold construction evident. "And the LORD God (1) formed man of the dust of the ground, and (2) breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man (2) became a living soul." We find;
    1. Man is "formed" ("yatsar") from the dust, dust already being available
    2. Man receiving the breath of God for human vitality as a human SPIRIT (Jas.2:26) - God's breath, which is "SPIRIT", having been there all the time ("asah")
    3. But man "BECAME" a living soul - some thing that had never been there before was "created" ("bara")- the SOUL of man

    And so 1st Thessalonians 5:23 shows the "whole" man (mentioned twice in the verse). "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    So also the matter dinosaurs. What does God need a million years for? He needs a millionth of a second to "create" TWO dinosaurs who have the seeds of procreation in them. Genesis 1:21 says, "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, ... ." Man, in his impotence, needs millions of years to satisfy his inability to "create" one single thing (for which man has yet brought forth something from nothing?). But God needed a split second - and that, without ANY effort. And within ten gestation periods of a dinosaur, God has populated the earth with dinosaurs.

    C'mon esteemed brothers and sisters. Make your choice. Is the God of the Bible Who He claims to be? In that case, what is too difficult for Him? Or shall we drag Him down to our level of impotence and inability and grant Him a some millions years to do what should take the ALL-Mighty a split second? Perish the thought!
    I believe that if we compromise on believing the plain text of Genesis, we then compromise the entire Word of God. So then, If I will pick and choose which parts of the Scriptures I will take literally and which parts I will take in my own interpretation, I am in error. Genesis says Everything was created in 6 days. I believe that. I don't have to try to explain how it happened, I only have to have Faith that it happened. But yet I (in the flesh) still love to consider how it was done. We have to be careful using man's science to explain Gods creation. We know that dinosaurs existed because we have bones to look at. Instead of looking at the Word for guidance on what these are, we look to science a lot of the time. Sad... God created ALL Beasts by their KIND. Dinos were some of these beasts. There indeed was no need for millions of years.

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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    C'mon esteemed brothers and sisters. Make your choice. Is the God of the Bible Who He claims to be?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In that case, what is too difficult for Him?
    Nothing
    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Or shall we drag Him down to our level of impotence and inability and grant Him a some millions years to do what should take the ALL-Mighty a split second? Perish the thought!
    Why are you now limiting God? Who are you to say that God did not use millions or billions of years? As my YEC friends often like to say, "Were you there?". His created order is telling us that the world is indeed much older than some bishop's (a man!) calculation of the age of the earth.
    It is only the cynic who claims “to speak the truth” at all times and in all places to all men in the same way, but who, in fact, displays nothing but a lifeless image of the truth… He dons the halo of the fanatical devotee of truth who can make no allowance for human weaknesses; but, in fact, he is destroying the living truth between men. He wounds shame, desecrates mystery, breaks confidence, betrays the community in which he lives, and laughs arrogantly at the devastation he has wrought and at the human weakness which “cannot bear the truth”. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in Ethics.


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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    Yes.
    Nothing
    Why are you now limiting God? Who are you to say that God did not use millions or billions of years? As my YEC friends often like to say, "Were you there?". His created order is telling us that the world is indeed much older than some bishop's (a man!) calculation of the age of the earth.
    I hear you. God bless.

  13. #13
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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    We weren't there but Jesus was..

    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

    He said he created the universe and everything in it in 6 days.. if we take him at his word then he created it in 6 days..

    He even broke it down for us knowing these arguments would continue into the future..

    John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


    Jude
    “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.”

    ― Jim Elliot


  14. #14
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    Re: Things For The Knowing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
    There are 24 hours in a day. Unless you mean daylight hours, which can then mean anywhere from 24 hours of daylight to zero hours depending on where and when you are on the globe.
    It is only the cynic who claims “to speak the truth” at all times and in all places to all men in the same way, but who, in fact, displays nothing but a lifeless image of the truth… He dons the halo of the fanatical devotee of truth who can make no allowance for human weaknesses; but, in fact, he is destroying the living truth between men. He wounds shame, desecrates mystery, breaks confidence, betrays the community in which he lives, and laughs arrogantly at the devastation he has wrought and at the human weakness which “cannot bear the truth”. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in Ethics.


  15. #15

    Post Re: Things For The Knowing

    -
    Day And Night

    Gen 1:4b-5a . . God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.

    Day and Night simply label two distinct, and opposite, conditions-- the absence of light, and/or the absence of darkness. Defining those conditions may seem like a superfluous detail, but when analyzing the chronology of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, it's essential to keep days and nights separate. When people attempt to define "day" as a twenty-four hour amalgam of light and darkness, they invariably come up with some rather convoluted interpretations of Matt 12:40.

    Gen 1:14 . . God said: Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish Day from Night

    On the first day; God defined Day as a condition of light; and defined Night as a condition of darkness. Gen 1:14 further defines that Day, as pertains to life on Earth, is when the sun is up; and Night is when the sun is down.

    These definitions occur so early in the Bible that they easily escape the memories of Bible students as they slip into the reflexive habit of always thinking of Days as 24-hour events. That's okay for calendars but can lead to gross misunderstandings when interpreting biblical schedules, predictions, and/or chronologies.

    Gen 1:15-18a . . God made the two great lights, the greater light to dominate the day and the lesser light to dominate the night, and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth, to dominate the day and the night, and to distinguish light from darkness.

    That passage not only defines "day" as when the sun is up, and "night" as when the sun is down; but it further defines night as when the stars are out; and yet people still don't think God means it.

    Christ defined Day and Night as they were practiced when he was here.

    John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

    "this world's light" is the sun; which Christ defined as "by day". So if Christ's "day" was defined as when the sun was up; then Christ's "night" had to be defined as when the sun was down.

    So then, when Christ predicted his death to last for three days and three nights, he obviously meant the hours of daytime and nighttime as they were understood when he was here rather than some other era otherwise the people in his own time wouldn't have known when to expect his crucified body to come back to life.


    NOTE: Daytimes divided into twelve divisions were regulated by what's known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when daytime consists of less than 12 normal hours of sunlight, and sometimes more; but when Christ was here; the official number of daytime hours was always 12 regardless.

    I don't know exactly why the Jews of that era divided their daytimes into twelve divisions regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities (e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices)

    /

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