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Thread: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

  1. #451
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post

    As Fenris himself said in the thread about Hitler "Who would want to worship a God that forgave Hitler but condemned Hitler's victims to hell?" Indeed! Who would?
    Well, this is a tough pill to swallow, on one hand, but this IS the God we follow. He alone gives mercy to whom he gives mercy. Who are we to judge?! Let’s remove Hitlers name from this as it seems to inflam the discussion.

    If after 30 years in prison, a serial killler finds the Lord, does he not deserve to find Grace? ( even tho many of his victims may not have ) Are only some allowed to find Grace and others not? Is’nt that the whole point of the Gospel - to find Grace? To be forgiven? To be born again?

    Paul persecuted the new born church, a very terrible deed, was he forgiven? How about a General who in this life worked for a mighty military and was responsible for killing 10’s of thousands of people ( some who knew the Lord and some who did not.) Later in his life, this General becomes a real born again Christian, and realizes he sent thousands to their death, needlessly, and many whom most likely did not know the Lord. Can he be saved? Of course!

    I imagine (and this is just a guess), but part of what motivates Fenris to post here is to deal with what he sees as anti-semitism. If that is the case, then we should be careful what we say, so that if he is offended, he is offended by the gospel and not some other belief we have.
    I agree with you here. But we should also be care how we throw around the “anti-semitism” card. Just because someone has a disagreement with some Jewish theology, thought or perspectives does not necessarily make one a rabid Jew-hater. That’s not fair or reasonable either. We should all be careful, I completely agree.
    “Dispensationalism has thrown down the gauntlet: and it is high time that Covenant theologians take up the challenge and respond Biblically.” – Dr. Robert L. Reymond, author, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith






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  2. #452
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I wasn't referring to discussions of Jesus, but rather, some of the anti-jewish posts in this thread. Fenris and I have had some discussions on Jesus that were rather blunt. But saying things like what was said in post 425 or in other threads, accusing Jews of genocide, etc. Such things do not further our Lord Jesus desire to win over lost souls. Rather, they alienate.
    Hi Mark,

    How serious must one take so-called anti-semitism? It is a misnomer to start with (Muslims are Semites too and what about the Chinese?)... and Paul for one is then guilty of this manipulative misnomer, which I believe is in most cases a way to derail and lead people astray by ensuring an uneven playing field, keeping them in a place where they will be stuck in and be lost for/of words... So you dare not question anything unbelieving Jews may do..., though unbelieving Russians are guilty as charge..., no way out for them. We are not children anymore, but when one mature, such type of manipulative tactics cannot be taken seriously.

    For we are the circumcision who worship God in the spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh; though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other thinks that he has reason to trust in the flesh, I more. I was circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews. As regards the Law, I was a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness in the Law, blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. But no, rather, I also count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them to be dung, so that I may win Christ and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness, which is of the Law, but through the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith,
    (Php 3:3-9 MKJV)

    For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also have suffered these things by your own countrymen, even as they also by the Jews; who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, also driving us out and they do not please God and being contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always; but the wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
    (1Th 2:14-16 MKJV)


    Read these passages carefully and then tell me, what do think have changed since then? If Paul say something factual that is the truth it is kosher, but I'm antisemitic..., whether the facts are correct or not?
    The Rapture

    My dearest friends, I’m so sorry… so sorry
    but I must confess, don’t worry
    the rapture is not before the Great Tribulation
    it’s before God’s wrath!!!

    Because His wrath is not meant for you
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  3. #453
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by CFJ View Post
    Hi Mark,

    How serious must one take so-called anti-semitism? It is a misnomer to start with (Muslims are Semites too and what about the Chinese?)
    The term "antisemitism" was coined by Wilhelm Marr, in 1881. He himself did not like Jews, but didn't like the conventional German term "Judenhass", meaning "Jew hatred". He liked his new term better, because it seemed almost scientific. So when someone uses the term, they aren't referring to Arabs, but specifically Jews.
    ... and Paul for one is then guilty of this manipulative misnomer, which I believe is in most cases a way to derail and lead people astray by ensuring an uneven playing field, keeping them in a place where they will be stuck in and be lost for/of words...
    If you are accusing Jews of shadowy conspiracies taking place over centuries, or using gentile blood to make Matzo, or the other bizarre accusations that people make against Jews, then you should be at a loss for words when confronted.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  4. #454
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by CFJ View Post
    Hi Mark,

    How serious must one take so-called anti-semitism? It is a misnomer to start with (Muslims are Semites too and what about the Chinese?)... and Paul for one is then guilty of this manipulative misnomer, which I believe is in most cases a way to derail and lead people astray by ensuring an uneven playing field, keeping them in a place where they will be stuck in and be lost for/of words... So you dare not question anything unbelieving Jews may do..., though unbelieving Russians are guilty as charge..., no way out for them. We are not children anymore, but when one mature, such type of manipulative tactics cannot be taken seriously.

    For we are the circumcision who worship God in the spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh; though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other thinks that he has reason to trust in the flesh, I more. I was circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews. As regards the Law, I was a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness in the Law, blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. But no, rather, I also count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them to be dung, so that I may win Christ and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness, which is of the Law, but through the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith,
    (Php 3:3-9 MKJV)

    For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also have suffered these things by your own countrymen, even as they also by the Jews; who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, also driving us out and they do not please God and being contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always; but the wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
    (1Th 2:14-16 MKJV)


    Read these passages carefully and then tell me, what do think have changed since then? If Paul say something factual that is the truth it is kosher, but I'm antisemitic..., whether the facts are correct or not?
    IMO, post 425 was conspiracy and towards a race, not a religion. What Paul spoke about was false religion within Judaism, just as there are those within Christianity that focus on the false path of self righteousness.

    For instance, Jesus said it was impossible for a prophet to die outside of Jerusalem. And He charged all those of that generation with the blood of every prophet from Abel, all the way to Zacharias. Where was Jerusalem when Abel was slain?

    Luke 11:47-52
    illed them. 48 "Consequently, you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 "For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, 50 in order that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' 52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered."
    NASB

    and

    Here's a passage where the Pharisees actually wanted to save Jesus life.

    Luke 13:31-35

    31 Just at that time some Pharisees came up, saying to Him, "Go away and depart from here, for Herod wants to kill You." 32 And He said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.' 33 "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem. 34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it! 35 "Behold, your house is left to you desolate; and I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'"
    NASB

    Jesus knew it wasn't Herod that was the big problem because political foes were rarely the issue. It has always been the religious that had false beliefs that commit murder of God and His prophets. It was the false religion that Cain chose to follow that killed Abel. Often, when the NT refers to this false religion, it uses the word "Jews" but not wholesale as was used in post 425. And it doesn't use the word "Jews" to refer to a race of people. There were no Jews when Abel was slain. But there was manmade false religion, that IMO, post 425 is full of!
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  5. #455
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Your main point appeared to have been that Israel behaves badly, which I refuted.
    In your own eyes maybe. Other observers of this chat can easily research what happened to 700000 displaced Arabs. The history is there for all to observe. You have mentioned that Jews too have been displaced. I agreed.

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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    In your own eyes maybe. Other observers of this chat can easily research what happened to 700000 displaced Arabs.
    Aaand now you're repeating it.

    Every war creates refugees. Maybe if the combined Arab world didn't declare war on Israel the day it became a state, there wouldn't be any refugees.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  7. #457
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by CFJ View Post
    Hi Mark,

    How serious must one take so-called anti-semitism? It is a misnomer to start with (Muslims are Semites too and what about the Chinese?)... and Paul for one is then guilty of this manipulative misnomer, which I believe is in most cases a way to derail and lead people astray by ensuring an uneven playing field, keeping them in a place where they will be stuck in and be lost for/of words... So you dare not question anything unbelieving Jews may do..., though unbelieving Russians are guilty as charge..., no way out for them. We are not children anymore, but when one mature, such type of manipulative tactics cannot be taken seriously.

    For we are the circumcision who worship God in the spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh; though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other thinks that he has reason to trust in the flesh, I more. I was circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews. As regards the Law, I was a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness in the Law, blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. But no, rather, I also count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them to be dung, so that I may win Christ and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness, which is of the Law, but through the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith,
    (Php 3:3-9 MKJV)

    For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also have suffered these things by your own countrymen, even as they also by the Jews; who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, also driving us out and they do not please God and being contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always; but the wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
    (1Th 2:14-16 MKJV)


    Read these passages carefully and then tell me, what do think have changed since then? If Paul say something factual that is the truth it is kosher, but I'm antisemitic..., whether the facts are correct or not?
    Let's use another term than:

    Ben Haman.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  8. #458
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Let's use another term than:

    Ben Haman.
    Purim coming up! On March 1st!
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  9. #459
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Purim coming up! On March 1st!
    Yep.


    "Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked."
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    One of my son's soccer coaches was Jewish and he was a blessing to my son and the whole team. And I don't mean this flippantly at all.
    A Jewish doctor saved my wife's life in childbirth.

    I'm going to say that was a blessing.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  11. #461
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    It's the way of the world, so what choice do I have?

    It seems kind of backwards, but about 100 years ago a Jewish writer named Ahad Ha-am found consolation in the blood libel that Jews use gentile blood to make Passover matzos. He asked, is it possible that everyone else is wrong and the Jews are right? Yes, he answered. The blood libel makes it possible. Because "everyone knew it to be true" and every Jew knew that it was a lie.

    So, go on people. Make your ridiculous accusations.
    Just know that every condemnation, ridicule and insult to you is also an insult to me. Why? Because it's an insult to God.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  12. #462
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    In your own eyes maybe. Other observers of this chat can easily research what happened to 700000 displaced Arabs. The history is there for all to observe. You have mentioned that Jews too have been displaced. I agreed.
    This is what happens when 7 Arab nations attack Israel after the UN re-establishes Israel to her rightful place.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    A Jewish doctor saved my wife's life in childbirth.

    I'm going to say that was a blessing.
    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv
    One of my son's soccer coaches was Jewish and he was a blessing to my son and the whole team. And I don't mean this flippantly at all.
    A Jewish doctor saved my wife's life in childbirth.

    I'm going to say that was a blessing.
    No one has said otherwise.

    Lots of Jews and Gentiles have been/continue to be, a blessing on the earth, and many of each continue to be a blight on the world stage [ Harvey Weinstein ? ] ( although we all should know there is no such delineation anymore according to the NT )

    Your point friends?
    “Dispensationalism has thrown down the gauntlet: and it is high time that Covenant theologians take up the challenge and respond Biblically.” – Dr. Robert L. Reymond, author, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith






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  14. #464
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    This is what happens when 7 Arab nations attack Israel after the UN re-establishes Israel to her rightful place.
    Well, this should have been expected to happen when you take a piece of land and call it your own based on a misunderstanding of the Scriptures.

    Just saying. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    “Dispensationalism has thrown down the gauntlet: and it is high time that Covenant theologians take up the challenge and respond Biblically.” – Dr. Robert L. Reymond, author, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith






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  15. #465
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    Re: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capitol of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Just know that every condemnation, ridicule and insult to you is also an insult to me. Why? Because it's an insult to God.
    Wouldn't that be true for every person?

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