Who are Gog and Magog?

[divaD]

Very true, nevertheless, it doesn't make it completely unrecognisable to the discerning scholar. For example, wherever we see "sword" in scripture, one should understand that it means "gun" in our modern age. However, there are many inventions (missiles, bombs, planes etc) that didn't exist in their time, so they didn't have names for them.

To add to your post, they apparently used what they were familiar with at the time to try and describe things they weren't familiar with at the time. What other options would they have had if not that?

[Fenris]

So how does one explain the following part which has to be the case before the attack occurs?

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

So nu, the IDF makes them safe. It doesn't mean they don't face attacks, only that the attacks don't succeed. Which is a good view of the situation now.

[divaD]

So nu, the IDF makes them safe. It doesn't mean they don't face attacks, only that the attacks don't succeed. Which is a good view of the situation now.

Can't say that that has ever crossed my mind before. Maybe you are correct then, the Israel Defense Forces, this might explain why the text indicates they shall be dwelling safely prior to this attack. In that verse I submitted in that other post, and if meaning in our day and time, that was the only part I was wondering how it might fit this present age. The other parts are easily explained by the regathering back to their land that began in the last century. Yet there are numerous Christians, some being members of this board, who deny God was behind any of that. In order for God to fulfill Ez 38 and 39 though, it obviously requires that God was behind the regathering back into their land that began in the last century.

[Johosophat]

So how does one explain the following part which has to be the case before the attack occurs?

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Israel is one of the safest places in the whole world you can live right now. Even the crime is very low.

They are actually dwelling safer now that most periods of the Old Kingdom.

[Johosophat]

IMO, though I submitted that article, I don't see anything in Ez 38 or 39 that could possibly fit in the millennium if the millennium is after Christ returns. But if the millennium is meaning before Christ returns, such as Amils believe, maybe then it could be in the millennium, actually after though, since it would be after the millennium that this attack occurs.

I agree. I don't see anything in those chapters that support a millennium timing.

[divaD]

Israel is one of the safest places in the whole world you can live right now. Even the crime is very low.

They are actually dwelling safer now that most periods of the Old Kingdom.

I would have never guessed it though, but apparently this must be the case. I have no reason at this point to doubt you nor Fenris, in regards to this. Makes good sense when one looks at from that perspective.

[Fenris]

Yet there are numerous Christians, some being members of this board, who deny God was behind any of that.

I would say that God, being all powerful, is behind everything. But I suppose that's a different discussion for a different part of the boards...

[Johosophat]

Can't say that that has ever crossed my mind before. Maybe you are correct then, the Israel Defense Forces, this might explain why the text indicates they shall be dwelling safely prior to this attack. In that verse I submitted in that other post, and if meaning in our day and time, that was the only part I was wondering how it might fit this present age. The other parts are easily explained by the regathering back to their land that began in the last century. Yet there are numerous Christians, some being members of this board, who deny God was behind any of that. In order for God to fulfill Ez 38 and 39 though, it obviously requires that God was behind the regathering back into their land that began in the last century.

Some point to the fact that the Jews (or whatever they view them as) are lost so how is this logical.

Two key verse here about the regathering:

Ezekiel 36:22-24
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.


Ezekiel 36:32
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

[Keraz]

It isn't hard to know where the G/M army comes from; the far reaches of the North. This means Russia and the 'stan' countries. Who are mainly Muslim peoples.

I see this attack happening before Jesus Returns. Proved by; then you will know that I; the Lord have done this. Ezekiel 38:23 & Ezekiel 39:22 By His actions, not His presence, as yet.
And the seven year clean up isn't likely to go into the Millennium, so the G/M attack will happen soon after all Israel, Ezekiel 39:23, are gathered into all of the holy Land.
All Israel; is in no way just the Jewish people, the remnant who will survive the Day of the Lord devastation and depopulation of the Middle East, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Ezekiel 21:1-7, but every faithful Christian person. Romans 9:24-27, Revelation 5:9-10 A vast multitude seen in Jerusalem by John, soon after the Sixth Seal. Revelation 7:9

[Trivalee]

So nu, the IDF makes them safe. It doesn't mean they don't face attacks, only that the attacks don't succeed. Which is a good view of the situation now.

And God has made the IDF successful since inception. It's the same thing divaD said. Ungodly nations may not see the need to attribute their successes to God, but Israel recognises that even the ability to breathe in the air is down to God. So I don't see them suddenly claiming their successes in security and prosperity, etc is down to their technology and ingenuity. God is simply behind everything.

[Keraz]

And God has made the IDF successful since inception. It's the same thing divaD said. Ungodly nations may not see the need to attribute their successes to God, but Israel recognises that even the ability to breathe in the air is down to God. So I don't see them suddenly claiming their successes in security and prosperity, etc is down to their technology and ingenuity. God is simply behind everything.

Sorry, Trivalee, but you are wrong that the Jews acknowledge God to be their helper and Protector.
I have been to Israel and know many Jews. They are proud of their victories and do not even consider that God helped them. They say their best ally is the Arab command!
My wife and I went to the memorial at T'safat, near Galilee. The info there made no mention of why the strongly held fort there unexpectedly melted away in the night.

The IDF will run for cover on the Day of the Lord's wrath. Isaiah 22:1-4

[David Taylor]

A deep study of the book of Esther provides and interesting consideration related to Gog.

[divaD]

The IDF will run for cover on the Day of the Lord's wrath. Isaiah 22:1-4

Posting Scripture without commentary showing how this connects is somewhat meaningless. When I read Ez 38 and 39, which I take to be meaning the last events that lead up to the 2nd coming, I'm failing to see what the IDF will have to do with things one way or the other at the time. God destroys Gog and his multitude who are coming against Israel at the time, thus the Lord's wrath is against those coming against Israel and not those of Israel who are being attacked.

[divaD]

A deep study of the book of Esther provides and interesting consideration related to Gog.

Obviously some of His people are still polluting His holy name today. Yet we are told in Ezekiel 39:7...and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more. If this is already fulfilled, then God is apparently a liar and incapable of actually preventing them from polluting His holy name if some are still polluting His holy name today. When we look for clues like these in the text, it should be a no brainer after that as to whether or not this prophecy has been fulfilled.

[Keraz]

Posting Scripture without commentary showing how this connects is somewhat meaningless. When I read Ez 38 and 39, which I take to be meaning the last events that lead up to the 2nd coming, I'm failing to see what the IDF will have to do with things one way or the other at the time. God destroys Gog and his multitude who are coming against Israel at the time, thus the Lord's wrath is against those coming against Israel and not those of Israel who are being attacked.

Well; I gave the reference of Isaiah 22:1-4, that says how people will be terrified and the military will flee in all directions. Then Isaiah 22:5-14 shows how the Jews will not look to their Maker or consider Him, instead they feast and get drunk, so the Lord says: Assuredly your wickedness will never be removed, you will die for your sins.

Please do not confuse the Gog from Magog attack with the Day of the Lord's wrath. They are separate events, easily proved when both are read and understood.