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  1. #1
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    Times and seasons

    There are 2 scriptures that speak of the times and seasons. One by Jesus, one by Paul. What does it mean, times and seasons?

    *[[Act 1:7]] KJV* And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    *[[1Th 5:1]] KJV* But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    *[[1Th 5:2]] KJV* For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    So when Jesus said what he did, i see three parts to his response.
    It is not for YOU to know...OR
    IT is not for you to know the TIMES &SEASONS...OR
    it is not for you to know the times and seasons which THE FATHER HAS PUT IN HIS OWN POWER.

    It seems odd to me that because he is speaking to "YOU", his disciples that he would want his disciples to know. Maybe the emphasis should be on what the Times & Seasons refers to... The kingdom of God. I think that his whole response is about the reestablished kingdom to Israel.

    If it was not for them to know about the "kingdom reestablished", why did he give them the Olivet discourse? Is the day of the Lord to come upon his disciples unawares, like a thief?

    Is it because only the Father knows when? After all Jesus said that only the Father "knows the day and hour". What hour? The 2nd advent? Again, what would the purpose of the olivet discourse be, if it is not telling them how to know when he was going to return (not the rapture)?

    It seems to me that the best answer is that the "signs" given in the O.D. are not relevant to them, their generation. This seems to be saying that applying the Olivet Discourse to the events of 70 AD would be inappropriate.

    What do you think?

    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    There are 2 scriptures that speak of the times and seasons. One by Jesus, one by Paul. What does it mean, times and seasons?

    *[[Act 1:7]] KJV* And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    *[[1Th 5:1]] KJV* But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    *[[1Th 5:2]] KJV* For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    So when Jesus said what he did, i see three parts to his response.
    It is not for YOU to know...OR
    IT is not for you to know the TIMES &SEASONS...OR
    it is not for you to know the times and seasons which THE FATHER HAS PUT IN HIS OWN POWER.

    It seems odd to me that because he is speaking to "YOU", his disciples that he would want his disciples to know. Maybe the emphasis should be on what the Times & Seasons refers to... The kingdom of God. I think that his whole response is about the reestablished kingdom to Israel.

    If it was not for them to know about the "kingdom reestablished", why did he give them the Olivet discourse? Is the day of the Lord to come upon his disciples unawares, like a thief?

    Is it because only the Father knows when? After all Jesus said that only the Father "knows the day and hour". What hour? The 2nd advent? Again, what would the purpose of the olivet discourse be, if it is not telling them how to know when he was going to return (not the rapture)?

    It seems to me that the best answer is that the "signs" given in the O.D. are not relevant to them, their generation. This seems to be saying that applying the Olivet Discourse to the events of 70 AD would be inappropriate.

    What do you think?

    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

    Actually there are some OT examples as well like the sons of Issachar

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Johosophat View Post
    Actually there are some OT examples as well like the sons of Issachar
    I don't follow what you are saying. Could you explain?
    Blessings
    GB

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Times and seasons is just another way of saying "you need not worry about the period or when" the event will occur.

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Times and seasons is just another way of saying "you need not worry about the period or when" the event will occur.
    So we should not heed Jesus's words to "watch" and "be ready/ sober" or Paul's exhortation to "watch and be sober"? Watching is the means by which we are to be ready and/ or being sober.

    *[[Mat 24:42]] KJV* Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    *[[Mat 24:44]] KJV* Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    *[[Mar 13:33]] KJV* Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
    *[[1Th 5:6]] KJV* Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    Too many people fail to
    Watch,
    AND
    Be ready, &
    Pray, &
    Be sober.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    So we should not heed Jesus's words to "watch" and "be ready/ sober" or Paul's exhortation to "watch and be sober"? Watching is the means by which we are to be ready and/ or being sober.

    *[[Mat 24:42]] KJV* Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    *[[Mat 24:44]] KJV* Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    *[[Mar 13:33]] KJV* Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
    *[[1Th 5:6]] KJV* Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    Too many people fail to
    Watch,
    AND
    Be ready, &
    Pray, &
    Be sober.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    The answer is in the passage you quoted Matt 24:44. Since we don't know the "hour and season" of the event, the key, therefore, is to be ready ALWAYS! If you are always ready, then you have *heeded* Jesus Christ' counsel and will not be taken unaware.

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Going further. Since Paul said that there was no need for him to write to them concerning the times and seasons, and yet they(the Thessalonians) didn't seem to have a proper or correct understanding of the times/ seasons, that must mean that they had something, whether it was written or spoken, that did explain the times or seasons. If they knew how to identify the times, but were not going to know them. Maybe the key word in Jesus's response is the word know.
    It is not for you to KNOW the times or seasons in which the Father has put into his own power. Could that word "know" have the same meaning as Joseph knew not his wife Mary. As if to say they would not experience the times and seasons? How else could you explain that the Thessalonians understood, but didn't understand the times and seasons?

    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    Going further. Since Paul said that there was no need for him to write to them concerning the times and seasons, and yet they(the Thessalonians) didn't seem to have a proper or correct understanding of the times/ seasons, that must mean that they had something, whether it was written or spoken, that did explain the times or seasons. If they knew how to identify the times, but were not going to know them. Maybe the key word in Jesus's response is the word know.
    It is not for you to KNOW the times or seasons in which the Father has put into his own power. Could that word "know" have the same meaning as Joseph knew not his wife Mary. As if to say they would not experience the times and seasons? How else could you explain that the Thessalonians understood, but didn't understand the times and seasons?

    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

    The first thing one needs to note is, that 1 Thess 5 begins with a 'But'. This tells us this is connected with something previously said, but if not, who begins a sentence with a 'but' and that it's not connected with something already previously said? What topic just preceded this 'But' in 1 Thess 5? Is it not the rapture disclosed at the end of chapter 4?

    1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


    Why would he be saying For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night, when there has been zero mention of the day of the Lord at this point, unless he was referring to the rapture in chapter 4? Isn't verse 2 telling us that the rapture is connected with the day of the Lord? The day of the Lord cannot precede the GT though. It follows after that time. That means the rapture in ch 4 can't precede the GT, but must follow after it.

    IMO then, that day and hour that knoweth know man, that is meaning these same times and seasons the Father has put in His own power, and is meaning the rapture and the day of the Lord, and that this follows the GT and doesn't precede the GT like Pretribbers tend to conclude.

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The first thing one needs to note is, that 1 Thess 5 begins with a 'But'. This tells us this is connected with something previously said, but if not, who begins a sentence with a 'but' and that it's not connected with something already previously said? What topic just preceded this 'But' in 1 Thess 5? Is it not the rapture disclosed at the end of chapter 4?

    1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


    Why would he be saying For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night, when there has been zero mention of the day of the Lord at this point, unless he was referring to the rapture in chapter 4? Isn't verse 2 telling us that the rapture is connected with the day of the Lord? The day of the Lord cannot precede the GT though. It follows after that time. That means the rapture in ch 4 can't precede the GT, but must follow after it.

    IMO then, that day and hour that knoweth know man, that is meaning these same times and seasons the Father has put in His own power, and is meaning the rapture and the day of the Lord, and that this follows the GT and doesn't precede the GT like Pretribbers tend to conclude.
    I don't necessarily disagree with your overall conclusion, just the part about the "But" of 1 Thess 5. He is writing "chapter 5" within the context of the whole epistle. I.e., he is referring to knowledge that they currently have, prior to him writing the epistle to them.
    Blessings
    GB

    P.s. "But" such is the case with the use of wherefore, or therefore, e.g,

    *[[1Th 4:18]] KJV* Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    *[[1Th 5:6]] KJV* Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    gb

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with your overall conclusion, just the part about the "But" of 1 Thess 5. He is writing "chapter 5" within the context of the whole epistle. I.e., he is referring to knowledge that they currently have, prior to him writing the epistle to them.
    Blessings
    GB
    Can't say I had ever looked at it that way. You could be correct then, I don't know. But I do see what you saying making good sense.

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with your overall conclusion, just the part about the "But" of 1 Thess 5. He is writing "chapter 5" within the context of the whole epistle. I.e., he is referring to knowledge that they currently have, prior to him writing the epistle to them.
    Blessings
    GB

    P.s. "But" such is the case with the use of wherefore, or therefore, e.g,

    *[[1Th 4:18]] KJV* Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    *[[1Th 5:6]] KJV* Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    gb
    Indeed, wherefore and therefore is also consistent with "but" as divaD said earlier. Any of these prepositions serve an addition or continuation of a previously made statement. IOW, you and him are saying the same thing.

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The first thing one needs to note is, that 1 Thess 5 begins with a 'But'. This tells us this is connected with something previously said, but if not, who begins a sentence with a 'but' and that it's not connected with something already previously said? What topic just preceded this 'But' in 1 Thess 5? Is it not the rapture disclosed at the end of chapter 4?

    1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


    Why would he be saying For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night, when there has been zero mention of the day of the Lord at this point, unless he was referring to the rapture in chapter 4? Isn't verse 2 telling us that the rapture is connected with the day of the Lord? The day of the Lord cannot precede the GT though. It follows after that time. That means the rapture in ch 4 can't precede the GT, but must follow after it.

    IMO then, that day and hour that knoweth know man, that is meaning these same times and seasons the Father has put in His own power, and is meaning the rapture and the day of the Lord, and that this follows the GT and doesn't precede the GT like Pretribbers tend to conclude.
    Good post, couldn't have put it better

  13. #13

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    There are 2 scriptures that speak of the times and seasons. One by Jesus, one by Paul. What does it mean, times and seasons?

    *[[Act 1:7]] KJV* And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    *[[1Th 5:1]] KJV* But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    *[[1Th 5:2]] KJV* For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    So when Jesus said what he did, i see three parts to his response.
    It is not for YOU to know...OR
    IT is not for you to know the TIMES &SEASONS...OR
    it is not for you to know the times and seasons which THE FATHER HAS PUT IN HIS OWN POWER.

    It seems odd to me that because he is speaking to "YOU", his disciples that he would want his disciples to know. Maybe the emphasis should be on what the Times & Seasons refers to... The kingdom of God. I think that his whole response is about the reestablished kingdom to Israel.

    If it was not for them to know about the "kingdom reestablished", why did he give them the Olivet discourse? Is the day of the Lord to come upon his disciples unawares, like a thief?

    Is it because only the Father knows when? After all Jesus said that only the Father "knows the day and hour". What hour? The 2nd advent? Again, what would the purpose of the olivet discourse be, if it is not telling them how to know when he was going to return (not the rapture)?

    It seems to me that the best answer is that the "signs" given in the O.D. are not relevant to them, their generation. This seems to be saying that applying the Olivet Discourse to the events of 70 AD would be inappropriate.

    What do you think?
    Good questions.

    I think I've covered them all before (in posts not long ago), but here goes another attempt (being more brief here).

    In Acts 1, the disciples are indeed asking Him about [what we now know is "future" yet] their promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom ["the age [singular] to come" from the perspective they were standing in]. This point in time (Acts 1) was following His resurrection [and I believe following His *first ascension* ON FIRSTFRUITS His Resurrection day] so I believe *HE* already knew/had perfect knowledge again with the Father (and knowing it is far off in the future, to these disciples). Thus, He says to them, "it is not for you [standing before Me at this moment] to know...". Later, He gives "The Revelation" in 95ad, detailing the sequence of events and time-markers that will cover the final 7 years LEADING UP TO that very thing they were asking about (and didn't understand the "TIMING" of), which is the SAME SUBJECT that the Olivet Discourse covers (which is NOT the SUBJECT of our Rapture).

    What the Thessalonians "knew perfectly" is that that TIME PERIOD [the 7 yrs that LEAD UP TO His "return" to the earth] will "ARRIVE" as a thief IN THE NIGHT (with its INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" 1Th5:2-3 [SEAL #1, the AC]). In 2Th2, Paul is exhorting them not to be swayed into believing that THAT DAY [the TIME PERIOD] "IS PRESENT," for (he says) ONE THING must happen "FIRST"! (the EVENT of v.1 [our RAPTURE]), following which, "the man of sin [is] revealed" [SEAL #1, the AC--the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" 1Th5:2-3, the ARRIVAL point in time OF the TIME PERIOD (the DOTL)]


    If it was not for them to know about the "kingdom reestablished", why did he give them the Olivet discourse?
    They knew ABOUT it perfectly, they just didn't understand its TIMING. (I believe Jesus DID KNOW at this point.) The Revelation He gives later in 95ad is an expansion of the very same subject, and detailing more specific TIMING elements, that those "servants" existing WITHIN those future 7-years WILL UNDERSTAND (they will COME TO understand it). This is that "further information" that God GAVE after He "burned up their city" [70ad], per the Matthew 22:7-8 verses (about the subject of "INVITING PPL TO THE SUPPER [the earthly MK]"--You and I aren't offering THAT "invitation," WE are asking ppl to participate in "THE MARRIAGE" or "G4862 [denoting 'UNION']" presently [this pertains to our "Rapture" when it happens], and after our Rapture takes place, THEN His servants of that future TIME PERIOD will be doing the "INVITING" to the SUPPER / their promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [preaching: Matt24:14,26:13], the one the disciples [Acts 1] understood RIGHTLY, just not the TIMING of it!)

    Is the day of the Lord to come upon his disciples unawares, like a thief?
    The "Day of the Lord [a TIME PERIOD]" will not come upon "the Church which is His body" (we will not be present on the earth, when IT is). It will ARRIVE "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" (not Jesus Himself, whose advent/coming will be 7 years later, and "as a thief." but not "IN THE NIGHT" Rev16:15-16 [speaking to those saints existing on the earth, having come to faith WITHIN the trib]), and IT (the DOTL, STARTING back at the BEGINNING of the 7 yrs) will unfold over time on the earth (the "in his time" of the man of sin, and ALL he will do over 7 years' time).


    It seems to me that the best answer is that the "signs" given in the O.D. are not relevant to them, their generation. This seems to be saying that applying the Olivet Discourse to the events of 70 AD would be inappropriate.
    Right. Only Luke:21:12-24a (OF the Olivet Discourse) applies to the events of 70ad (and 24b to that which followed on from there, and 24c ends at His 2nd Coming to the earth, per Rev11:2--all concerning "Israel"). The rest is all "future". [future to "this present age" (pertaining to "the Church which is His body") as well, I might add].............

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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Good questions.

    I think I've covered them all before (in posts not long ago), but here goes another attempt (being more brief here).

    In Acts 1, the disciples are indeed asking Him about [what we now know is "future" yet] their promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom ["the age [singular] to come" from the perspective they were standing in]. This point in time (Acts 1) was following His resurrection [and I believe following His *first ascension* ON FIRSTFRUITS His Resurrection day] so I believe *HE* already knew/had perfect knowledge again with the Father (and knowing it is far off in the future, to these disciples). Thus, He says to them, "it is not for you [standing before Me at this moment] to know...". Later, He gives "The Revelation" in 95ad, detailing the sequence of events and time-markers that will cover the final 7 years LEADING UP TO that very thing they were asking about (and didn't understand the "TIMING" of), which is the SAME SUBJECT that the Olivet Discourse covers (which is NOT the SUBJECT of our Rapture).

    What the Thessalonians "knew perfectly" is that that TIME PERIOD [the 7 yrs that LEAD UP TO His "return" to the earth] will "ARRIVE" as a thief IN THE NIGHT (with its INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" 1Th5:2-3 [SEAL #1, the AC]). In 2Th2, Paul is exhorting them not to be swayed into believing that THAT DAY [the TIME PERIOD] "IS PRESENT," for (he says) ONE THING must happen "FIRST"! (the EVENT of v.1 [our RAPTURE]), following which, "the man of sin [is] revealed" [SEAL #1, the AC--the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" 1Th5:2-3, the ARRIVAL point in time OF the TIME PERIOD (the DOTL)]




    They knew ABOUT it perfectly, they just didn't understand its TIMING. (I believe Jesus DID KNOW at this point.) The Revelation He gives later in 95ad is an expansion of the very same subject, and detailing more specific TIMING elements, that those "servants" existing WITHIN those future 7-years WILL UNDERSTAND (they will COME TO understand it). This is that "further information" that God GAVE after He "burned up their city" [70ad], per the Matthew 22:7-8 verses (about the subject of "INVITING PPL TO THE SUPPER [the earthly MK]"--You and I aren't offering THAT "invitation," WE are asking ppl to participate in "THE MARRIAGE" or "G4862 [denoting 'UNION']" presently [this pertains to our "Rapture" when it happens], and after our Rapture takes place, THEN His servants of that future TIME PERIOD will be doing the "INVITING" to the SUPPER / their promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [preaching: Matt24:14,26:13], the one the disciples [Acts 1] understood RIGHTLY, just not the TIMING of it!)



    The "Day of the Lord [a TIME PERIOD]" will not come upon "the Church which is His body" (we will not be present on the earth, when IT is). It will ARRIVE "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" (not Jesus Himself, whose advent/coming will be 7 years later, and "as a thief." but not "IN THE NIGHT" Rev16:15-16 [speaking to those saints existing on the earth, having come to faith WITHIN the trib]), and IT (the DOTL, STARTING back at the BEGINNING of the 7 yrs) will unfold over time on the earth (the "in his time" of the man of sin, and ALL he will do over 7 years' time).




    Right. Only Luke:21:12-24a (OF the Olivet Discourse) applies to the events of 70ad (and 24b to that which followed on from there, and 24c ends at His 2nd Coming to the earth, per Rev11:2--all concerning "Israel"). The rest is all "future". [future to "this present age" (pertaining to "the Church which is His body") as well, I might add].............
    If you see the DOTL beginning as a thief in the night (which you say here that you do, and i do agree), to which Paul says this:

    *[[1Th 5:2]] KJV* For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    *[[1Th 5:3]] KJV* For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    Being that he uses the same figurative language as Jesus did in describing the birth pangs [the rest of which are laid out in the Olivet Discourse], and the O.D. is all about Israel,

    Do you believe that "the sudden destruction, like a travailing woman" is the focus of Paul's words, then how can the rapture, be in any shape, form, or fashion, "IMMINENT" [granted that you are saying yes about the travailing woman referring to Israel] if God's judgment upon Israel must include the whole house of Israel?
    [Let me provide a scripture that makes my question a valid one]. From Eze 5.

    *[[Eze 5:4]] KJV* Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel.

    This says that it will come upon the WHOLE house of Israel. But not only that, but it says that it will take place IN JERUSALEM!

    I think that this causes problems with what you are believing. I will explain.

    *[[Eze 5:1]] KJV* And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the hair.
    *[[Eze 5:2]] KJV* Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them.
    *[[Eze 5:3]] KJV* Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts.
    *[[Eze 5:4]] KJV* Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel.
    *[[Eze 5:5]] KJV* Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.
    *[[Eze 5:8]] KJV* Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations.
    *[[Eze 5:9]] KJV* And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations.
    *[[Eze 5:10]] KJV* Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers; and I will execute judgments in thee, and the whole remnant of thee will I scatter into all the winds.
    *[[Eze 5:11]] KJV* Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.
    *[[Eze 5:12]] KJV* A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.
    *[[Eze 5:13]] KJV* Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them.
    *[[Eze 5:14]] KJV* Moreover I will make thee waste, and a reproach among the nations that are round about thee, in the sight of all that pass by.
    *[[Eze 5:15]] KJV* So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment unto the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the LORD have spoken it.
    *[[Eze 5:16]] KJV* When I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, which shall be for their destruction, and which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread:
    *[[Eze 5:17]] KJV* So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee; and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it.

    Verse 5 says that this all takes place in Jerusalem.
    Verse 9 says that it is the great tribulation.
    How can this be the GREAT TRIBULATION, in the middle of the week, and also that Jerusalem shall be desolate for 42 months that follow?

    *[[Rev 11:2]] KJV* But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    If you answered no to the part about the DOTL and that Israel is the travailing woman, no explanation is needed. My main point being that the whole house of Israel is and has not gathered to Jerusalem since the days of king Solomon/ Rehoboam.Thanks
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    Last edited by goldenboy; Jan 12th 2018 at 10:07 PM. Reason: added "main point"

  15. #15

    Re: Times and seasons

    goldenboy,

    I'm trying to understand your question or your main point, but let me first ask you whether you are perceiving MY point to be that the AC ["man of sin be revealed"] to be occurring later in the chronology than I am meaning? I am meaning that "the man of sin be revealed" at the FIRST SEAL (that is the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]"), at the START of the 7 years, not in its middle.

    I'm not really understanding your contention or your main point.

    I believe the sequence is "the [one] restraining AT PRESENT will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst [I believe this is the Spirit-indwelt/sealed Church which is His body] he be come [come to be]. AND THEN shall that Wicked BE REVEALED..." This "AND THEN" means pretty much this is the immediate [or possibly, almost-immediate] outcome/results/after-effects/consequence/following-thing of the previous action (following "out of the midst he be come").

    Thus, "the Church which is His body" [raptured immediately prior] is OUTSIDE "the DOTL TIME PERIOD," whereas "the man of sin BE REVEALED" falls INSIDE the DOTL TIME PERIOD (which will unfold over time on the earth, and ALL that "the man of sin" will DO in those 7 years).

    Now, please let me know if I've missed the point you are endeavoring to draw my attention to. (I believe the 7-yrs will involve Israel and the Gentiles [initially "unsaved" but many will come to faith WITHIN that time period], but NOT "the Church which is His body" until the later point in time when we return with Him, as already-wed, as I understand Rev19:7 as distinct from 19:9; FOR "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [the earthly MK]" (where the "10/5 Virgins [plural]" are still located [on the earth], where "the guests [plural]" are still located [on the earth], and where "the servants [of that time period]" are still located [on the earth]--none of whom He is coming to "MARRY," as I see it; "the righteous" of those [still on the earth] will enter the earthly MK time period [the wedding FEAST/SUPPER]).

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