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Thread: Times and seasons

  1. #31

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I get your thoughts, however the first seal is NONE of the things in Ezekiel. The second and fourth you could connect.
    Satan is NOT cast out of heaven at the 6th seal.
    You could as easily attribute it to the fourth trumpet - this states a third of the stars were struck, which matches the third part in Rev 12:4
    The point is that just because similar language is used it doesn't make it the same thing. Or are you claiming the 6th seal and the 4th trumpet and the 7th trumpet are about the same thing?
    There are no stars mentioned in connection with the 7th trumpet. And :

    *[[Rev 8:12]] KJV* And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    He does not use the phrase "stars of heaven". He merely says stars and makes it clear that this is not figurative language.

    Blessings
    GB

  2. #32
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    There are no stars mentioned in connection with the 7th trumpet. And :

    *[[Rev 8:12]] KJV* And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    He does not use the phrase "stars of heaven". He musty says stars and makes it clear that this is not figurative language.

    Blessings
    GB
    I agree no stars mentioned with the 7th trumpet - and?
    Where are the stars? In heaven.
    With the 6th seal we have the same figurative language used:
    sun turned black, moon red, stars falling from the sky, the sky receding like a scroll, mountains and islands moved.

    Can you literally have a third part of the sun stopping shining?
    Will a third of the moon disappear?
    Will an entire third of stars be gone?

    It is all a picture.

  3. #33

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I get your thoughts, however the first seal is NONE of the things in Ezekiel. The second and fourth you could connect.
    Satan is NOT cast out of heaven at the 6th seal.
    You could as easily attribute it to the fourth trumpet - this states a third of the stars were struck, which matches the third part in Rev 12:4
    The point is that just because similar language is used it doesn't make it the same thing. Or are you claiming the 6th seal and the 4th trumpet and the 7th trumpet are about the same thing?
    Concerning this point:
    I get your thoughts, however the first seal is NONE of the things in Ezekiel. The second and fourth you could connect.
    In Eze 14, you find the 4 judgments are:

    *[[Eze 14:21]] KJV* For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

    There he says "noisome" beasts, sword, famine, and pestilence.

    In Eze 5 we see:

    *[[Eze 5:17]] KJV* So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee; and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it.

    "Evil" beasts, sword, famine & pestilence.

    And in Rev. 6 we see:

    *[[Rev 6:8]] KJV* And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    Beasts, sword, hunger/ famine, and death.

    In Eze 5 he says that they shall "die" with pestilence, within the city. In other words, they die at their own hands

    *[[Eze 5:12]] KJV* A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.

    Besides that he says by "Death and Hell " concerning the 4th seal. If you want to believe that Rev. 6:8 is not giving a recapitulation of the 4 seals collectively, where he calls the 4th seal pestilence to refer to Death & Hell, that's your prerogative to do so.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

  4. #34

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I agree no stars mentioned with the 7th trumpet - and?
    Where are the stars? In heaven.
    With the 6th seal we have the same figurative language used:
    sun turned black, moon red, stars falling from the sky, the sky receding like a scroll, mountains and islands moved.

    Can you literally have a third part of the sun stopping shining?
    Will a third of the moon disappear?
    Will an entire third of stars be gone?

    It is all a picture.
    Do you not pay attention to what he said?

    *[[Rev 8:12]] KJV* And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    The sun shone not for a third part of the day, and the moon and stars shone not for a third part of the night.
    Blessings
    GB

  5. #35
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    Do you not pay attention to what he said?

    *[[Rev 8:12]] KJV* And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    The sun shone not for a third part of the day, and the moon and stars shone not for a third part of the night.
    Blessings
    GB
    I did pay attention. And? So are you saying the sun disappears, or stops burning for 8 hours every day?
    Or are you thinking it is reduced in intensity by a third, so less bright?
    Or actually is it speaking of the atmospherics?
    Or yet again is it figurative and not literal?

    You seem to be claiming it is literal so I am open as to how this would literally be the case.

  6. #36

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I did pay attention. And? So are you saying the sun disappears, or stops burning for 8 hours every day?
    Or are you thinking it is reduced in intensity by a third, so less bright?
    Or actually is it speaking of the atmospherics?
    Or yet again is it figurative and not literal?

    You seem to be claiming it is literal so I am open as to how this would literally be the case.
    If the earth's rotation speed was increased, the days would become shorter and the night would be shorter. Reducing a 24 hour day down to 16 hours would literally fulfill this prophecy. And also Christ's prophecy about "shortened days" during the GT and at the same time preserve the prophetic times given (ie. 42 months). A short 16 hour day would still count as a day right? The sun would rise and set.

    A significant meteor impact at the correct angle at the equator could really cause something like this to happen. Or a series of planned nuclear strikes to intentionally cause it to happen. Or even a series of huge earthquakes whose energy is projected downward at the correct angle. It doesn't take a lot of energy to increase the momentum of something that's already in motion in a frictionless environment.

  7. #37

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by crush View Post
    If the earth's rotation speed was increased, the days would become shorter and the night would be shorter. Reducing a 24 hour day down to 16 hours would literally fulfill this prophecy. And also Christ's prophecy about "shortened days" during the GT and at the same time preserve the prophetic times given (ie. 42 months). A short 16 hour day would still count as a day right? The sun would rise and set.

    A significant meteor impact at the correct angle at the equator could really cause something like this to happen. Or a series of planned nuclear strikes to intentionally cause it to happen. Or even a series of huge earthquakes whose energy is projected downward at the correct angle. It doesn't take a lot of energy to increase the momentum of something that's already in motion in a frictionless environment.
    This point about the stars (being darkened) [in the sky] was FHG's rebuttal about the stars of heaven. As I said earlier, "stars of heaven" is not mentioned here. Just a reference to the stars being darkened. Absence of the metaphorical "stars of heaven" and context clearly shows the literalness of what is written there. I guess he was trying to point out the impossibility of the skies going dark, meaning that it is to be taken figuratively. This does not mean that this has to last more than one day to find literal fulfilment.

    With that being said, I did some scientific research, and nearly got knocked out of my seat. This will require some visualization skills or (you) getting some visual props to grasp what i found. I looked at some future lunar eclipses to occur in the middle East. [I will not devolve which particular lunar eclipse that i used, just one in the "near" future.

    There are 2 principal requirements for a lunar eclipse [besides the eclipse itself], and they are a full moon, and nighttime. Not every full moon produces an eclipse, but they are a fairly common occurrence. But as I said, I looked at a future one in the middle east. It is not even a total eclipse. [Put your 3-D glasses on right now, lol]. When it is nighttime in the eastern hemisphere, it is daytime in the western. Simple enough. A lunar eclipse occurs when the earth passes between the paths of the sun and moon. It's in the middle. Simple enough. If something, in the atmosphere, blocks out the sun, in the western hemisphere (daytime), at the same time as a lunar eclipse is taking place in the darkened eastern hemisphere, both will grow dark at the same time. In other words, the whole world will be in darkness at the same time. [Are you still with me so far? ]. This particular PARTIAL eclipse that i looked at, I went and found a few pieces of information. The amount of darkness (sunset until sunrise - a day begins at sunset for Jews) and the total length of the eclipse. This is the time that elapsed from the time the the earth is (only partially in this case) is in a direct line between the sun and moon. Here is what I found. The amount of time that the earth is eclipsing the moon is (within 60 seconds of time) exactly one third of the amount of"night" time. So, if we have an "unnatural" solar eclipse, take place in the western hemisphere at the same time as a natural lunar eclipse in the east, the whole world will be in darkness.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    Last edited by goldenboy; Jan 14th 2018 at 02:54 PM. Reason: Spelling mistakes

  8. #38
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by crush View Post
    If the earth's rotation speed was increased, the days would become shorter and the night would be shorter. Reducing a 24 hour day down to 16 hours would literally fulfill this prophecy. And also Christ's prophecy about "shortened days" during the GT and at the same time preserve the prophetic times given (ie. 42 months). A short 16 hour day would still count as a day right? The sun would rise and set.

    A significant meteor impact at the correct angle at the equator could really cause something like this to happen. Or a series of planned nuclear strikes to intentionally cause it to happen. Or even a series of huge earthquakes whose energy is projected downward at the correct angle. It doesn't take a lot of energy to increase the momentum of something that's already in motion in a frictionless environment.
    I get the idea of a shorter day, but it isn't God who changes the times or seasons.
    Further it doesn't deal with the moon and stars.

  9. #39

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I get the idea of a shorter day, but it isn't God who changes the times or seasons.
    Further it doesn't deal with the moon and stars.
    ��

    *[[Isa 65:17]] KJV* For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

    *[[Dan 2:21]] KJV* And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

    *[[Dan 7:25]] KJV* And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
    GB

  10. #40
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Times and seasons is just another way of saying "you need not worry about the period or when" the event will occur.

  11. #41
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The first thing one needs to note is, that 1 Thess 5 begins with a 'But'. This tells us this is connected with something previously said, but if not, who begins a sentence with a 'but' and that it's not connected with something already previously said? What topic just preceded this 'But' in 1 Thess 5? Is it not the rapture disclosed at the end of chapter 4?

    1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


    Why would he be saying For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night, when there has been zero mention of the day of the Lord at this point, unless he was referring to the rapture in chapter 4? Isn't verse 2 telling us that the rapture is connected with the day of the Lord? The day of the Lord cannot precede the GT though. It follows after that time. That means the rapture in ch 4 can't precede the GT, but must follow after it.

    IMO then, that day and hour that knoweth know man, that is meaning these same times and seasons the Father has put in His own power, and is meaning the rapture and the day of the Lord, and that this follows the GT and doesn't precede the GT like Pretribbers tend to conclude.
    Good post, couldn't have put it better

  12. #42

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Times and seasons is just another way of saying "you need not worry about the period or when" the event will occur.
    So we should not heed Jesus's words to "watch" and "be ready/ sober" or Paul's exhortation to "watch and be sober"? Watching is the means by which we are to be ready and/ or being sober.

    *[[Mat 24:42]] KJV* Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    *[[Mat 24:44]] KJV* Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    *[[Mar 13:33]] KJV* Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
    *[[1Th 5:6]] KJV* Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    Too many people fail to
    Watch,
    AND
    Be ready, &
    Pray, &
    Be sober.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

  13. #43

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    This point about the stars (being darkened) [in the sky] was FHG's rebuttal about the stars of heaven. As I said earlier, "stars of heaven" is not mentioned here. Just a reference to the stars being darkened. Absence of the metaphorical "stars of heaven" and context clearly shows the literalness of what is written there. I guess he was trying to point out the impossibility of the skies going dark, meaning that it is to be taken figuratively. This does not mean that this has to last more than one day to find literal fulfilment.

    With that being said, I did some scientific research, and nearly got knocked out of my seat. This will require some visualization skills or (you) getting some visual props to grasp what i found. I looked at some future lunar eclipses to occur in the middle East. [I will not devolve which particular lunar eclipse that i used, just one in the "near" future.

    There are 2 principal requirements for a lunar eclipse [besides the eclipse itself], and they are a full moon, and nighttime. Not every full moon produces an eclipse, but they are a fairly common occurrence. But as I said, I looked at a future one in the middle east. It is not even a total eclipse. [Put your 3-D glasses on right now, lol]. When it is nighttime in the eastern hemisphere, it is daytime in the western. Simple enough. A lunar eclipse occurs when the earth passes between the paths of the sun and moon. It's in the middle. Simple enough. If something, in the atmosphere, blocks out the sun, in the western hemisphere (daytime), at the same time as a lunar eclipse is taking place in the darkened eastern hemisphere, both will grow dark at the same time. In other words, the whole world will be in darkness at the same time. [Are you still with me so far? ]. This particular PARTIAL eclipse that i looked at, I went and found a few pieces of information. The amount of darkness (sunset until sunrise - a day begins at sunset for Jews) and the total length of the eclipse. This is the time that elapsed from the time the the earth is (only partially in this case) is in a direct line between the sun and moon. Here is what I found. The amount of time that the earth is eclipsing the moon is (within 60 seconds of time) exactly one third of the amount of"night" time. So, if we have an "unnatural" solar eclipse, take place in the western hemisphere at the same time as a natural lunar eclipse in the east, the whole world will be in darkness.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    Yes this a very interesting phenomena, but wouldn't an extended period of darkness during the daytime just increase the length of the nighttime and shorten the length of the daytime for all practical purposes? I don't see how this could fulfill Rev 8:12 where both the daytime and nighttime are made shorter by one third.

  14. #44

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I get the idea of a shorter day, but it isn't God who changes the times or seasons.
    Further it doesn't deal with the moon and stars.
    If the earth is spinning faster both day and night will be shorter. So if you were on the equator with 12 hour days and 12 hour nights and this 24 hour period was reduced to 16 hours by an increased rotational spin, your daytime hours would now be 8 hours and your nighttime hours would be 8 hours. So you would see the sun 4 hours less per day, and you would see the moon and stars 4 hours less per day.

    Yes I agree that God changes the times and seasons, but often uses people to accomplish his will. As goldenboy posted the AC will see to change the 'times'. Although I'm not really sure why he'd want shorter days lol. It would be possible for him to do it though, I'm sure he would have the resources to do it if he wanted to.

    I was just pointing out that an increased rotational spin of the earth seems to be the only way that Rev 8:12 could be fulfilled. Whether God does it to 'shorten the days to save all flesh from being destroyed', or the AC does it to 'change the times', or for some other reason IDK.

  15. #45

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by crush View Post
    Yes this a very interesting phenomena, but wouldn't an extended period of darkness during the daytime just increase the length of the nighttime and shorten the length of the daytime for all practical purposes? I don't see how this could fulfill Rev 8:12 where both the daytime and nighttime are made shorter by one third.
    The "unnatural" solar eclipse, would remove the light from the normal daylight, while the exacerbated lunar eclipse would eliminate the lesser lights of the night at the same time. Thus, both night and day would be without lights for a subsequent third part. This could not happen under a normal solar eclipse because it takes place during a new moon. (The moon would not be affected, since it is already dark).
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

    P.s. Just trying to put to rest, a preconceived notion, i.e. think out of the box!
    Last edited by goldenboy; Jan 14th 2018 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Added p.s.

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