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Thread: Times and seasons

  1. #46
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with your overall conclusion, just the part about the "But" of 1 Thess 5. He is writing "chapter 5" within the context of the whole epistle. I.e., he is referring to knowledge that they currently have, prior to him writing the epistle to them.
    Blessings
    GB

    P.s. "But" such is the case with the use of wherefore, or therefore, e.g,

    *[[1Th 4:18]] KJV* Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    *[[1Th 5:6]] KJV* Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    gb
    Indeed, wherefore and therefore is also consistent with "but" as divaD said earlier. Any of these prepositions serve an addition or continuation of a previously made statement. IOW, you and him are saying the same thing.

  2. #47

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    The "unnatural" solar eclipse, would remove the light from the normal daylight, while the exacerbated lunar eclipse would eliminate the lesser lights of the night at the same time. Thus, both night and day would be without lights for a subsequent third part. This could not happen under a normal solar eclipse because it takes place during a new moon. (The moon would not be affected, since it is already dark).
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

    P.s. Just trying to put to rest, a preconceived notion, i.e. think out of the box!
    Hey no problem, I really appreciate out of the box thinking. I think it's required alot of times in understanding scripture. God's thoughts are different than ours (Isa 55:8) so sometimes we have to think differently to understand him right?

    I will definitely investigate your theory here, but just off the top of my head, what type of 'atmospheric conditions' would cause the sun to be dark in the entiretly of one hemisphere during this period? It would have to be something pretty major right? Like smoke from a huge volcanic eruption or nuclear winter or something like that? Something this major couldn't dissipate this rapidly could it?

  3. #48
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I can't speak for goldenboy, but it seems that Rev15:1 says, [re: the 7 Vials] "the seven LAST plagues, for IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED" (not saying this is the START of it).


    http://biblehub.com/text/revelation/15-1.htm
    To clarify, in the 7 vials of Rev 15:1 the wrath of God will be completed. BUT it is NOT yet completed. Rather, it is a prelude to the last round of judgments that God is going to send upon the earth. It is as though the Lord is warning, “Brace yourself, I have not yet finished judging the wickedness of the earth, there is more to come.” Revelation 15:1 is an introduction to the beginning of the end!

    I like to check the views of several scholars to understand what the majority view is before quoting an expert.

    https://bible.org/seriespage/24-end-...velation-151-8

  4. #49

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by crush View Post
    Hey no problem, I really appreciate out of the box thinking. I think it's required alot of times in understanding scripture. God's thoughts are different than ours (Isa 55:8) so sometimes we have to think differently to understand him right?

    I will definitely investigate your theory here, but just off the top of my head, what type of 'atmospheric conditions' would cause the sun to be dark in the entiretly of one hemisphere during this period? It would have to be something pretty major right? Like smoke from a huge volcanic eruption or nuclear winter or something like that? Something this major couldn't dissipate this rapidly could it?
    I suppose that there are a number of things that it could be. [Just speculation here] how long do nuclear mushroom clouds last? Maybe, like you say, a volcanic cloud, but that, guessing, would probably last longer? Perhaps another dust storm like during the dust bowl? Maybe a huge wildfire? Maybe a dust cloud from an asteroid/ comet strike? Maybe cities suffering from a strong earthquake?
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

  5. #50
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    So we should not heed Jesus's words to "watch" and "be ready/ sober" or Paul's exhortation to "watch and be sober"? Watching is the means by which we are to be ready and/ or being sober.

    *[[Mat 24:42]] KJV* Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    *[[Mat 24:44]] KJV* Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    *[[Mar 13:33]] KJV* Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
    *[[1Th 5:6]] KJV* Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    Too many people fail to
    Watch,
    AND
    Be ready, &
    Pray, &
    Be sober.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    The answer is in the passage you quoted Matt 24:44. Since we don't know the "hour and season" of the event, the key, therefore, is to be ready ALWAYS! If you are always ready, then you have *heeded* Jesus Christ' counsel and will not be taken unaware.

  6. #51
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    There are 2 scriptures that speak of the times and seasons. One by Jesus, one by Paul. What does it mean, times and seasons?

    *[[Act 1:7]] KJV* And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    *[[1Th 5:1]] KJV* But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    *[[1Th 5:2]] KJV* For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    So when Jesus said what he did, i see three parts to his response.
    It is not for YOU to know...OR
    IT is not for you to know the TIMES &SEASONS...OR
    it is not for you to know the times and seasons which THE FATHER HAS PUT IN HIS OWN POWER.

    It seems odd to me that because he is speaking to "YOU", his disciples that he would want his disciples to know. Maybe the emphasis should be on what the Times & Seasons refers to... The kingdom of God. I think that his whole response is about the reestablished kingdom to Israel.

    If it was not for them to know about the "kingdom reestablished", why did he give them the Olivet discourse? Is the day of the Lord to come upon his disciples unawares, like a thief?

    Is it because only the Father knows when? After all Jesus said that only the Father "knows the day and hour". What hour? The 2nd advent? Again, what would the purpose of the olivet discourse be, if it is not telling them how to know when he was going to return (not the rapture)?

    It seems to me that the best answer is that the "signs" given in the O.D. are not relevant to them, their generation. This seems to be saying that applying the Olivet Discourse to the events of 70 AD would be inappropriate.

    What do you think?

    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    Considering the phrase "times and seasons" the word "times", which is "chronos" in the plural, refers to a period of time having distinct characteristics. In our idiom we might talk about "the Sixties", or "the Seventies" or "the 'me' generation", or "the bronze age" or "the times of the Gentiles", or any bracket of time marked by a set of unique situations and circumstances.

    The word "seasons", on the other hand, refers to an opportune time for an event to take place. For instance, the spring time is the most appropriate time of year for planting, whereas the fall is the most appropriate time for harvest (depending on location.) Figuratively speaking, a "season" is any moment of time that is particularly advantageous for a desired activity.

    The Apostles and the Thessalonians wanted to know something about the distinct characteristics, situations, and circumstances that would mark the restoration of Israel and the coming of Jesus. What will be the proper or suitable set of world circumstances that will necessitate the coming of the Lord?

    The answer is, no one knows and the times and seasons will look normal and not recognizable as "the right time."

  7. #52

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    I suppose that there are a number of things that it could be. [Just speculation here] how long do nuclear mushroom clouds last? Maybe, like you say, a volcanic cloud, but that, guessing, would probably last longer? Perhaps another dust storm like during the dust bowl? Maybe a huge wildfire? Maybe a dust cloud from an asteroid/ comet strike? Maybe cities suffering from a strong earthquake?
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    Yeah pretty much anything that would cause a smoke or dust cloud to cover half the planet, enough to black out the sun, is an extinction level event. These clouds wouldn't dissipate for years. Dust bowls and wildfires would just affect local areas. The only thing I could think of is if a giant rouge asteroid passed very close to us between us and the sun. But then that would just behave as a normal solar eclipse, and most of the world wouldn't see a full eclipse of the sun anyway. And even the full eclipse wouldn't appear at the same time to everyone.

  8. #53
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I agree no stars mentioned with the 7th trumpet - and?
    Where are the stars? In heaven.
    With the 6th seal we have the same figurative language used:
    sun turned black, moon red, stars falling from the sky, the sky receding like a scroll, mountains and islands moved.

    Can you literally have a third part of the sun stopping shining?
    Will a third of the moon disappear?
    Will an entire third of stars be gone?

    It is all a picture.
    I agree. It's a picture. I am convinced that the sun, moon, and stars, being lights in the sky, are figurative references to sources of information, especially information concerning the future. The mention of sun, moon, and stars is an oblique reference to astrology and idolatry in general. Thus, when the Revelation indicates that these luminaries are diminished, it seems to suggest that astrologers will not gain as much "information" from the skies as usual. Or perhaps the number of astrologers has been reduced by a third. Or perhaps a third of the people have stopped seeking the advise of astrologers, indicating a return to God. Or perhaps there might occur a series of celestial events that preclude or prevent the practice of astrology or render astronomical charts useless. In other words, the skies will no longer be predictable.

  9. #54

    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    However many have the idea that the 7th trumpet is the moment when Jesus returns. It isn't. It is the moment when Heaven is cleared of Satan and his angels.
    It is the blast which then means "he who is removed" has been removed from heaven and has already comes to empower the man of sin to go and kill the two witnesses.
    Nah. The "[re: man of sin] whose coming [advent/arrival/presence (I believe this is SEAL #1 at the BEGINNING of the 7 yrs [Dan9:27a(26)])] is after [according to] the working of Satan in every power and signs and wonders of falsehood." I see this as different to the later [mid-trib] "and power was given unto him to continue 42 months" Rev13:5b. [see also v.2b] [again, I see 5th Trumpet/1st Woe to be mid-trib, which is what this later Rev13 is referring to]

    ____________

    As for the "times and the seasons," OP subject, I see this as correlating with what Daniel 2:21 says, "21 And he [God] changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding"


    I tend to view the word "changeth" to mean something like the following:

    J-F-B Commentary says this (and I tend to agree generally with this idea, I say 'generally,' because I might change the wording up a little bit, but the overall thought I am tracking with):

    "21. [He/God] changeth … times … seasons—"He herein gives a general preparatory intimation, that the dream of Nebuchadnezzar is concerning the changes and successions of kingdoms" [Jerome]. The "times" are the phases and periods of duration of empires (compare Da 7:25; 1Ch 12:32; 29:[29-]30); the "seasons" the fitting times for their culmination, decline, and fall (Ec 3:1; Ac 1:7; 1Th 5:1). The vicissitudes of states, with their times and seasons, are not regulated by chance or fate, as the heathen thought, but by God."


    So Seal #1 initiates the final [7-year] kingdom [headed by the AC] which leads up to Christ's Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom. "The Church which is His body" is removed/taken out of the way/caught-away-up/episynagōgēs-unto Him/set up in Heaven [Rev4-5 (crowns and thrones)]/etc, so that "the man of sin be revealed" on the earth [ARRIVAL of the DOTL time period] who "goes/went forth conquering and to conquer" [Rev6:1-2 (a crown was given unto him)] (which "conquer" word is the same word used in the later events when he "overcomes" and kills the 2 Witnesses [Rev11:7 (6th Trumpet events/2nd Woe)], and "overcomes" the saints [Rev13:7 (2nd half of trib, starting at 5th Trumpet/1st Woe unto the earth; Satan & his angels now cast to the earth, to now be limited to that sphere; Dan7:21 also)].)


    So I see "the times and the seasons" to pertain to this... a sort of "changing of the guard" moment. The Church is removed off the earth to be "WITH [G4862] HIM," AND THEN the man of sin be revealed, "in his time". [<---earthly time period, ARRIVAL of the DOTL time period, "IN THE NIGHT"/"DOTL is darkness" (the 7-yr portion), commencing at SEAL 1]

  10. #55
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I agree. It's a picture. I am convinced that the sun, moon, and stars, being lights in the sky, are figurative references to sources of information, especially information concerning the future. The mention of sun, moon, and stars is an oblique reference to astrology and idolatry in general. Thus, when the Revelation indicates that these luminaries are diminished, it seems to suggest that astrologers will not gain as much "information" from the skies as usual. Or perhaps the number of astrologers has been reduced by a third. Or perhaps a third of the people have stopped seeking the advise of astrologers, indicating a return to God. Or perhaps there might occur a series of celestial events that preclude or prevent the practice of astrology or render astronomical charts useless. In other words, the skies will no longer be predictable.
    I believe the key thing throughout Revelation is summed up in "Who do you worship!"
    The worship of idols will be diminished and it will be IMO the cult of Man as expressed through the Beast (not Islam or another religion), or Jesus (the true Man.)

  11. #56

    Re: Times and seasons

    Acts 1:7-8 KJV
    And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
    [8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    Times and seasons are always in the power of God and the Christ.

    1. times and seasons in the power of the God the Father is made known by the Father to saints eestablished in the everlasting life.
    2. times and seasons in the power of the God the Son is made known by the Son to saints begotten as sons and who have eternal life.
    3. times and seasons in the power of the Christ is made known by the Christ to saints made perfect and who live forever.


    It was not yet given for saints in the early Church to know the times and seasons that are in the power of God the Father. They were yet raised up into the kingdom and then to the Father.

    Rather, the power of Christ was given to them by the Holy Ghost so that times and seasons in that power of Christ might be made known to them.

    Similarly, no man knows the Day (of God the Son) or Hour (of God the Father) until they come. The Day or the Hour comes like a thief in the night for those who are asleep. Saints who are alive and remain are not overtaken by the Day of Hour of God.


    .
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  12. #57
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    Re: Times and seasons

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I believe the key thing throughout Revelation is summed up in "Who do you worship!"
    The worship of idols will be diminished and it will be IMO the cult of Man as expressed through the Beast (not Islam or another religion), or Jesus (the true Man.)
    The purging of idolatry from among the people and especially in the city of Jerusalem is the central focus of Zephaniah chapter one, which I believe takes place in the run-up to the day of the Lord.

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