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Thread: The Forbidden Fruit

  1. #16

    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Sa:ji:sdo:de, "At any rate, the pending dialogue, between God and Man in the next few verses, implies that God himself had no hand in making those two people change. On the page of scripture, their altered human nature is directly related to the fruit and to nothing else."

    The fallen state of man is not attributed to some biological makeup of fruit. The sin that brought death onto all mankind is the sin of unbelief. They turned from the truth of God's words and instead believed Satan's lies.

    Previous to their transgression, Adam and Eve knew only good. Afterwards, they knew both good and evil.

    1Ti 2:13* For Adam was first formed, then Eve.*
    1Ti 2:14* And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    Heb 2:14* Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;*
    Heb 2:15* And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.**

    2Co 11:3* But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    1Jn 3:8* He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.*

    The prophecy in Gen 3:15 concerns the serpent (the devil, Satan) and Christ. Satan will be humiliated and his ploys will come to nothing. He will be crushed. Christ's suffering was temporary. He was "bruised" but will overcome death and his enemy "the old serpent." (Rev 20:10)

    Gen 3:14* And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:*
    Gen 3:15* And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.

    Rom 16:20* And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen*

  2. #17
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    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by verity View Post
    Previous to their transgression, Adam and Eve knew only good. Afterwards, they knew both good and evil.
    They only knew good because they had not experienced evil. Afterwards, they knew good and evil because they experienced both.

  3. #18
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    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam07 View Post
    Hi

    i believe in the sin nature and sin passed on from the parent to child through our genes could you please explain your point of view that the sin nature is false so i could understand your POV.

    thank you
    Hi,
    There's simply no support in scripture. There's no change of nature found or any idea that sin is passed through generation.
    Where does scripture imply the nature/genes of Adam and Eve were altered?
    I see an a effected relationship and fellowship not an effected nature.

  4. #19

    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Is it though? When was the last time you ate something that drastically and permanently changed your psyche? They sinned against the living, loving, holy God and realized it. That's not a change in nature. They came to know something, is what it says. It does not say their nature changed. 'Sin nature' is false doctrine.
    I do not understand your question. yes everything we do affects us.

  5. #20
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    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler7 View Post
    I do not understand your question. yes everything we do affects us.
    So then when Adan did good his nature was made righteous and holy? No. Does it us? No. Our nature is our nature. God created and made it and you, a mere mortal, are not going to change it anymore than Adam or the serpent could. Unless you want to suggest God changed it? I don't think you do. Minor and temporary causative changes you are talking about ("Every thing we eat affects us, just like every thing we see, feel etc.") are irrelevant to a sin nature discussion, which is major and permanent.

  6. #21
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    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Hi,
    There's simply no support in scripture. There's no change of nature found or any idea that sin is passed through generation.
    Where does scripture imply the nature/genes of Adam and Eve were altered?
    I see an a effected relationship and fellowship not an effected nature.
    i came to this conclusion my self regarding sinful nature, before i did a little research on it and found it is it is taken to be a heresy belief and your answer like the research answers i found didnt provide much help.

    to help me understand the difference between how or why a person needs salvation if the dont have a sinful nature

    why do they need salvation then if there ok?

    does that make sense

    thx

  7. #22
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    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam07 View Post
    to help me understand the difference between how or why a person needs salvation if the dont have a sinful nature

    why do they need salvation then if there ok?
    We sin. So did Adam and Eve and they didn't have this 'sin nature'. It's not necessary. There's a lot of reasons we sin. Our nature is only one of many, but choice and free will is not evil. Without our nature being one of the reasons how would either Adam and Eve or ourselves ever have a choice? We don't sin because of a sin nature. We sin for a lot of reasons. Blaming it on just our nature is shallow thinking. Since being born again and a relationship and fellowship (grace) is what keeps us from sinning, why isn't a lack of these a major reason we do?

  8. #23
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    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sa:ji:sdo:de View Post
    -
    Her death, though related to eating the fruit, would come upon her from a very different direction; one that Eve apparently never suspected; though it was right under her nose the whole time.

    /
    Actually the only reason Eve physically died is because God made her mortal...created in a mortal body that is meant to age and die. What the fruit did was cause her to die in a spiritual sense, the same way the unsaved are physically alive but spiritually dead.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  9. #24
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    Re: The Forbidden Fruit

    I believe that the Sin that Adam and Eve committed was the REASON for Death, but that the DEATH ITSELF is from the curses (Punishment) that God placed upon the earth, Satan, and mankind.

    THE ACT(s) OF SIN (Satan, Eve, Adam):

    Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    THE IMMEDIATE ACT ON FLESH: All flesh (Any flesh that comes forth from Adam and Eve forevermore) received something new at this point that it did not (or would not) have had before.

    Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

    JUDGEMENT/PUNISHMENT:

    ON SATAN:

    Gen 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    ON WOMAN:

    Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    ON MAN:

    Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;19a In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,

    ON MANKIND: DEATH

    Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    But I also believe that there WAS BORN AT THAT MOMENT a form of "DEATH" in that the "2nd Death" should now apply. So then they were "SEPARATED from God" (which is the condition people are in when assigned to the Lake of Fire), and this was a form of death as well.

    So there are 2 forms of death applied, one Spiritual (Separation from God), and Physical (Gen 3:19).

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