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Thread: Tattoos and Christians

  1. #106
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    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Wrong. That is 6,6,6 not 666. This has nothing to do with the number of the beasts name.
    Exactly .
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  2. #107

    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    Greetings Crush,

    This post I am largely, if not completely, in agreement. Separate the issues: 1) DNA tampering and 2) Bible prophecy.

    DNA tampering can be good if used to fix things that broken in it due to the fallen world we live in. Like Bluesky mentioned, if we can come up with vaccines to defeat diseases, that can be good. However, at what cost, does the vaccine require embryonic stem cells, for example? That’s a problem.

    We shouldn’t treat it like a toy. The fact is though our world is fallen and most people are not God’s people and even those of us who belong to God too often fall to our sinful inclinations.

    A good place to go for some good thinking on this is Al Mohler’s podcast/webpage called The Briefing. Al Mohler is the President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and does a 20-25 minute podcast Monday - Friday and addresses issues like this regularly. He uses articles from mainstream publications such as The New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, et al. Very good sources. Tremendous analysis by him. Very current articles. A wise way to use a half hour of our week days.

    Jesusinmylife is a good guy. I know him outside the forum. I talk to him on the phone (there are a couple people I’ve exchanges phone numbers with). Never met him in person. We aren’t geographical close. Don’t let a post or two in this thread ruin his good voice in your forum time here. You may find him to be quite the blessing.

    Grace & peace to you,

    Joe
    It's a bit more serious an issue than I think you are aware. Yes editing single cells has been around for a long time and it's been fairly well regulated as usually only well funded laboratories had the money and talent to play around with it.

    But now absolutely anyone with 100 dollars can edit in foreign pieces of dna material into another organisms dna. Using a virus delivery system you can deliver the foreign dna and CRISPR template to large portions of the human body or the entire adult human body. You can snip out part of the dna in a majority of cells in your body and replace it with a snippet from a tomato if you want to, or a lizard, or a housefly, or anything. Since this is happening now in people's garages it is totally unregulated. And of course with the possibility of making lots of money, or changing something they don't like about themselves, or giving themselves possible superpowers, or curing some disease they might have, people are already injecting themselves with home brew concoctions. It is now being treated like a toy. At best we should be concerned about the possibility of 10's of thousands of these guinea pigs killing themselves or turning themselves into bags of cancer. At worst it is the start of the end of man as God created.

    Here is a quote from the CEO of "The Odin" which is one of the start-ups selling these DIY CRISPR home kits:
    "I am sure many people will try and dismiss this as unscientific or how clinical trials will need to be run. The problem is that old world is dead. It died long ago and biohackers are creating a new one in its place. This is a world where the only important outcome is the one intended by the user."

    When he says the 'old world', he means the world that God made. His 'new world' vision is one created by man.

    Thank you for the referral, I will check out Mr Mohler's podcast. And it's no problem, I totally understand Jesusinmylife's reaction. What is happening now does sound crazy.

  3. #108
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    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    If memory serves, Jacob genetically altered sheep
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  4. #109
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    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    CRISPR doesn't work on humans ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Don't let me interfere with the narrative.

  5. #110

    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    CRISPR doesn't work on humans ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Don't let me interfere with the narrative.
    CRISPR works on anything with DNA as far as I know. All it does is snip the DNA using the cells own natural mechanisms. Cas9 enzyme can be attacked by the human immune system and render the whole process less effective. But the immune system can be also overwhelmed by repeated dosing, or there are dozens of other enzymes that can replace Cas9 in the process. I think you mean to say that CRISPR/Cas9 doesn't work in adult humans, as it is extremely effective on human embryos that don't have any immune system. So lizard babies could theoretically be a reality now, so long as you can get someone to remove and replace the egg in the womb.

    It's only a few months since the first DIY guinea pig injected himself so it remains to be seen how effective it can be on adult humans. It will take 6 months to a year to see the effects of the dosing.

  6. #111

    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    If memory serves, Jacob genetically altered sheep
    Nice point. I had just read that story a few days ago and didn't even make the connection with genetics. I'll have to go back now and re-read it! Thank you.

  7. #112
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    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    I mentioned Al Mohler’s podcast. He commented on CRISPR a year ago this Friday.

    https://albertmohler.com/2017/02/16/briefing-02-16-17/

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

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  8. #113
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    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by crush View Post
    CRISPR works on anything with DNA as far as I know. All it does is snip the DNA using the cells own natural mechanisms. Cas9 enzyme can be attacked by the human immune system and render the whole process less effective. But the immune system can be also overwhelmed by repeated dosing, or there are dozens of other enzymes that can replace Cas9 in the process. I think you mean to say that CRISPR/Cas9 doesn't work in adult humans, as it is extremely effective on human embryos that don't have any immune system. So lizard babies could theoretically be a reality now, so long as you can get someone to remove and replace the egg in the womb.

    It's only a few months since the first DIY guinea pig injected himself so it remains to be seen how effective it can be on adult humans. It will take 6 months to a year to see the effects of the dosing.
    No, I meant to be imprecise with my language. My hope was to draw out the response you wrote so that I could contrast it with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by crush View Post
    But now absolutely anyone with 100 dollars can edit in foreign pieces of dna material into another organisms dna. Using a virus delivery system you can deliver the foreign dna and CRISPR template to large portions of the human body or the entire adult human body. You can snip out part of the dna in a majority of cells in your body and replace it with a snippet from a tomato if you want to, or a lizard, or a housefly, or anything. Since this is happening now in people's garages it is totally unregulated.
    Do you suppose that 'absolutely anyone with 100 dollars' is using CRISPER-Cas9 home kits to splice the DNA of human embryos with lizards, houseflys, or tomatos? You then correct yourself by clarifying that delivering large portions of foreign DNA to 'the entire adult human body' would require repeated dosing - the effects of which no one currently knows - because the immune system of a healthy, adult human decimates CRISPR-Cas9's delivery system. How expensive would that dosing be for the average adult? Prohibitively so I would argue.

    In other words, by being imprecise I've drawn you into correcting me, into correcting you. You've nullified a portion of your doomsday scenario within a few posts of arguing for its legitimacy. Khan's not a reality, yet (or Bashir, for that matter).

  9. #114

    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    No, I meant to be imprecise with my language. My hope was to draw out the response you wrote so that I could contrast it with this:



    Do you suppose that 'absolutely anyone with 100 dollars' is using CRISPER-Cas9 home kits to splice the DNA of human embryos with lizards, houseflys, or tomatos? You then correct yourself by clarifying that delivering large portions of foreign DNA to 'the entire adult human body' would require repeated dosing - the effects of which no one currently knows - because the immune system of a healthy, adult human decimates CRISPR-Cas9's delivery system. How expensive would that dosing be for the average adult? Prohibitively so I would argue.

    In other words, by being imprecise I've drawn you into correcting me, into correcting you. You've nullified a portion of your doomsday scenario within a few posts of arguing for its legitimacy. Khan's not a reality, yet (or Bashir, for that matter).
    Repeated dosing cost almost nothing more than the initial dose, since the component parts are grown at home with the kit. You'd probably want to replace the syringe each time I guess.

  10. #115
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    Re: Tattoos and Christians

    God sees the Spiritual nature of man, not the physical. No matter what one does to the human genome, the spiritual aspects will still reign. If you are born again and a follower of Jesus, you have nothing to worry about. Just my sense on the issue.

    With that said, I am 100% against GMO's ( the so called food ) and playing around with our genes. Seeking a "higher" human, a genetic replacement, is folly.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.



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