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Thread: the Millennial reign of the Church

  1. #16
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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The New Heavens and the New Earth, incl Jerusalem, does not come down until after the Millennium.

    I believe the prophesies that describe things which can literally happen, will literally happen.
    The New Jerusalem is described in great detail in Revelation 21. The precious stones, for example: are not allegorical or metaphors for something else.

    From what we read in Revelation22:15 and Zechariah 14:16, there will be people who are not citizens of the holy City.
    I've believed, at one time or another, very similar things. I believed New Jerusalem followed the Millennium, and that perhaps the "lost" lived on earth outside the city. But I never really considered much of the imagery as being anything more than symbolism. But in the last few years I've begun to accept a more literal version. I remain open on all questions.

  2. #17
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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post
    Not as kings. I think more as judges. We will rule them by judging them according to the laws Christ determines as He sits on His throne in the temple in Jerusalem. We will judge them according to those laws and the laws of the nations that don’t contradict the laws of Christ.

    I think the nations will still select their leaders who will represent the people before Christ when they have to go up to Jerusalem (Zec 14:16-19).


    I know there are many who think that we will be reigning as “kings”. I have a different view on that. We will be physical. Actual flesh and bone. But we will not be kings.

    Is 60:11-12 and Zec. 14:16-19 reveal what will happen to those nations who do not go up to worship during this time. I can’t see us being kings of nations and not going up. Yet the scriptures say it Is a possibility.

    Rev 20:7-8 says that satan will deceive the nations after he is released. Yet I have trouble think how this would happen if we are the ruling kings of those nations. Unless he deceives us as well?


    Reigning for us means judging the people. But only those of us who have proven we can do it here now will be given that task. So not all of us will “rule / judge”.

    I am of the opinion that there will be a multitude of jobs and tasks for us to do. What we end up doing will depend on our faithfulness here determined by what we are faithful in. Whereas we can be faithful in one area there may be another area we are not so much. That area of faithfulness will determine our position of responsibility during the MK.
    I tend to agree with this--not kings but judges, assuming we've been proven faithful. I do think that all the saved will perform according to their natural gift for all eternity. It should be something else to find out...

  3. #18
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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post
    Not as kings. I think more as judges. We will rule them by judging them according to the laws Christ determines as He sits on His throne in the temple in Jerusalem. We will judge them according to those laws and the laws of the nations that don’t contradict the laws of Christ.

    I think the nations will still select their leaders who will represent the people before Christ when they have to go up to Jerusalem (Zec 14:16-19).


    I know there are many who think that we will be reigning as “kings”. I have a different view on that. We will be physical. Actual flesh and bone. But we will not be kings.

    Is 60:11-12 and Zec. 14:16-19 reveal what will happen to those nations who do not go up to worship during this time. I can’t see us being kings of nations and not going up. Yet the scriptures say it Is a possibility.

    Rev 20:7-8 says that satan will deceive the nations after he is released. Yet I have trouble think how this would happen if we are the ruling kings of those nations. Unless he deceives us as well?


    Reigning for us means judging the people. But only those of us who have proven we can do it here now will be given that task. So not all of us will “rule / judge”.

    I am of the opinion that there will be a multitude of jobs and tasks for us to do. What we end up doing will depend on our faithfulness here determined by what we are faithful in. Whereas we can be faithful in one area there may be another area we are not so much. That area of faithfulness will determine our position of responsibility during the MK.
    I agree with many points. Here are some considerations.
    • 2nd Timothy 2:12 and Revelation 20:4-6 use the word "reign". Israel refused the Kingdom, and the Gentiles twice had their chance to reign properly (1. Adam to Moses, and 2. Nebuchadnezzar to the Beast). They not only reigned unjustly but the earth descends into a deplorable condition under their reign. From the return of Christ the reputation of God is as stake, for it is the "Kingdom of God". Thus, only those followers of Christ who have shown that they will manage God's things with utmost obedience to Him, in righteousness and strictness, and in constant communication with their Master Jesus, will be allowed to reign. In Revelation 2:26 it is; "And he that (1) overcometh, and (2) keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations."
    • Those who are found wise, diligent, self-denying and exact followers of Jesus, receive "crowns". A "crown" is for ruling (1st Corinthians 9:25; 2nd Timothy 4:8; James 1:12; 1st Peter 5:4; Revelation 2:10 and 3:11)
    • The nations will still be in the flesh as we know it now. They will resist God's rule at every turn (Rom.8:7). That is why the co-kings with Christ, will, like Christ Himself, rule "with a rod of iron". We are sometimes tempted to think that the Millennium will be a continuation of the age of grace. It is not. The king of any one city must expect to administer the death penalty until the rebellious of the nations are "subdued".
    • This matter of the rebellion of Satan with Gog and Magog at the end of the 1,000 years is fully understandable. If Christ asks His co-kings to give a little time to see what the nations will decide, the co-king can easily still manage his/her daily affairs in his/her city, but allow each of the subjects to decide which way they are going to go. God does this all the time. He gives time to see which way a man will go without relinquishing His rule.
    • So also for those who absolutely refuse to go up to Jerusalem annually at the Feast of Tabernacles (Zech.14:16). It is no problem for God to withhold rain for a year or two for the rest of the population to "lynch" those who caused the drought. I do not mean "lynch" in an anarchic way, but the bulk of the Gentiles in a city, will themselves, having empty bellies, put so much pressure on the wayward one, PLUS the wayward one will have an empty belly. It will not take long to jack them into order once they have no water or food.
    • Each city is to be administered in three areas. (1) Worship of Christ (Phil.2:10), (2) righteousness (Rom.14:17), and (3) orderly and clean living so that the best conditions for safe and prosperous living are achieved. So besides a "rod of iron" making each Gentile bend his/her knee and worship at the mention of Christ's Name, punishing criminals with commensurate and instant retribution, and managing civil service (tax collection - whatever the monetary system is, water and sewerage and trade) will be the co-kings duties.

    God, and His Christ, stake their name on this Kingdom. It will be run according to Their orders and the bottom line is;
    1. Give God and Christ Their due, and eradicate any attempt at idol worship or display of disdain towards Them
    2. "All the families of the earth must be blessed" (Gen.12:3, 28:14). The best conditions for safe, healthy and prosperous living will be achieved. Woe to the Gentile who tries to upset this Promise of God's

  4. #19
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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I am talking about before man was created. There are two passages that shed some light on Satan's activities before man came onto the scene. They are Isaiah 14:12-17 and Ezekiel 28:12-19. In these passages, we see God addressing the power behind two kings - Satan, and information is given about Satan that has not happened in man's history. In;
    • Ezekiel 28:12-13 and 15 we see that. like all things, God created Lucifer perfect, beautiful, with musical instruments in his body, bedecked with the precious stines that make up God's House, and wise in all things
    • Ezekiel 28:14 and 16 we learn that he was the "Covering Cherub". This is explained by the two Cherubim covering the Ark of the Covenant which allude to the fact that he was the "go-between" a Holy God and the rest of His creation. We can see that he was greater than the other angels because Michael, Israel's angel, had to respect him (Jude 1:9)
    • Isaiah 14:13 we see that he had a throne - meaning that he was a king
    • Isaiah 14:12 he had power over the nations. Which nations is subject to discussion but in the following verses what he did to them has never happened since Adam
    • Isaiah 12:16-17 he made the (1) earth to tremble, (2) shook kingdoms, (3) made the world a wilderness, (4) destroyed the cities of it, and (5) had prisoners that were not released. While the first two could have taken place after Adam although there is no record of it, the rest has never happened in human or Biblical history except it certainly could have happened before Genesis 1:2. In Genesis 1:2 the literal Hebrew is; "But the earth BECAME a chaos and was empty; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." In Isaiah 45:18, concerning the creation, we see that it was made in good order. It reads, "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else." The word "vain" is the same word as is used in Genesis 1:2 for "chaos", or, in the KJV, "without form". So if Lucifer was Covering Cherub, was magnificent in all ways, had a throne, and had power over the earth, its cities, the nations and their prisoners, and was able to cause unimaginable chaos, it is reasonable to assume that he was the Governor of earth before the chaos of Genesis 1.2 occurred.

    Added to this, in;
    1. John 12:31, 14:30 and 16:11 our Lord Jesus Himself calls Lucifer "the prince of this world". He could not have had this title simply by deceiving Adam
    2. In Luke 4:6 our Lord Jesus did not refute Satan's claims. They were (1) that he had "All this power", (2) that he was in the position to "give them and their glory" to Jesus, (3) that they were, "... delivered unto me", and (4) that he had the power to give them and their glory to whomsoever he wanted to.
    3. In Genesis 1:26-28 one of man's duties was to "subdue". To subdue implies that there is an opponent, who has power and lays claim to something, but is to be put in subjection

    It seems to me to be clear, considering all this evidence, that Lucifer was once governor of this earth. His ambitions led to "violence" and ultimately chaos and the destruction in his domain - the earth. He was supposed to be replaced by Adam and his seed, but through deception caused Adam to become impotent to overcome his authority. Since God has decreed that the earth is to be ruled by mankind, Satan must now exercise his "power" and "position" through men - which is the history of the Bible up until he met our Lord Jesus. But since our Lord Jesus is largely rejected, and must take time to choose out, call out, and train a new people for rulership - the Church, the Gentiles have a "time" apportioned to rule this earth in subservience to the provocations of Lucifer. This ends when the "times of the Gentiles are full" (Lk.21:24).

    Satan is defeated progressively by a Man from;
    • our Lord's birth - the "Seed of the woman" has arrived to replace Satan
    • our Lord's survival under Herod - Satan was unable to kill Him to
    • our Lord's temptation - Satan no power of deception over Jesus to
    • our Lord's life under Law - Satan cannot provoke Jesus to break it to
    • our Lord's agony in Gethsemane - Satan cannot get Jesus to refuse His Father's will even though He was innocent to
    • our Lord's death - Satan's power to use death is annulled because "sin" (singular) is put away (Rom.6:23; Heb.2:14) to
    • our Lord's resurrection - the ownership of the keys to Hades changes to
    • our Lord's military victory at Armageddon to
    • our Lord imprisoning Satan for 1,000 years in an abyss to
    • our Lord's Kingdom withstanding Satan's renewed attempt to stir the nations led by Gog and Magog against His Citadel - Jerusalem to
    • our Lord casting Satan into the Lake of Fire forever

    Note that in that Satan was able to provoke a rebellion after the 1,000 years of Christ's rule, he was not completely "subdued" until then. It is only when he is completely subdued, and all men are resurrected, that our Lord hands over the Kingdom to God (1st Cor.15:24).
    I've looked into these things but find it frustrating to base doctrine on mere allusions to Satan in biblical prophecy. The kings in Isa 14 and Eze 28 refer to the King of Babylon and the King of Tyre. They were historical kings, and although they do seem to depict Satan I don't know how much I can rely on symbolism to establish doctrinal facts?

    I don't know for sure exactly *when* Satan fell? He may have already fallen by the Eden story because logically, Wouldn't Satan had to have fallen *before* he tempted Eve? Beyond this, I've wondered if God produced "darkness" in the Creation Account because Satan had already fallen by that time, being an agent of darkness? Also, why would God have created animals and canine teeth unless Satan had already fallen, and God was interested in producing symbolic truth about divine judgment in Creation?

    The idea of Satan having been created to be a "king" I find interesting. It appears he abused his leadership class by attempting to be like God, ending up a tyrant. Two witnesses among the archangels, Michael and Gabriel, seem to testify against Satan. And there are two angelic witnesses over the ark of the covenant. Satan is not allowed in God's presence, except on the periphery. He is no longer able to be like God, except in terms of perfunctory function. The virtues of God are absent from him, and he is blind to what they are any longer.

    It is interesting that the kings of the earth have the same problems Satan had. They vie with God for control over their kingdoms, and often end up being tyrants. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only true reign is exercised on behalf of God, and not on behalf of the king himself. He must serve in order to reign properly. To serve himself would be to depart from the Lord's own reign over His own Kingdom.

    I have to plead ignorant to so much of this speculation, though we can know for sure that a rebellious spirit exists out there, just as it exists within all men tainted with sin. And if sin is in each one of us, then certainly it is in the hearts of leaders within our societies, as well as in angelic powers supervising history itself.

  5. #20

    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Daniel 2:36-38:
    36 "This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
    37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
    38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold."
    Set in a hierarchical order are fathers, men, the children of men as well are servants. There isn't a difference between children and servants except that the former are heirs.

    Fathers are brought in to establish men who, in God, are the sons of God. Men are chosen reign as kings because of their riches (human subject and things such as their names, glories and powers). Also, they rule by reason of their works (of their kingdom, righteousness and holiness). In the Scripture, everything about them is great and color coded pure/white.

    Children of men are, in God, called believers in the Christ of God. Throughout the Scripture, everything about them ends in perfection and are color coded gold.

    Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, ruled over the category of children of men (not the men) of Babylon, wherever the children were then found. That is how come his head was seen as gold

    Daniel 2:36-38 do not say that Nebuchadnezzar ruled over the earth, but diligently stated whom/what Nebuchadnezzar ruled over.

    Only the Son of God (the Son of man, the Lamb) rules over the earth with His brethren who are/will be begotten by God.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    God the Father reigns from heaven. Heaven is His throne (Isaiah 66:1; Matthew 5:34, 23:22; Acts 7:49). But our Lord Jesus, Son of man, Son of David and King of the Jews, and ruler of the whole earth, will live in Jerusalem. Jeremiah 3:17 tells us about the time when Judah and Israel are united again and Israel have been gathered together. "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart."
    God the Son sits on and reigns from His throne in heaven. Remember that the Book of Revelation is about Jesus Christ; He is seen sitting on His throne in heaven. His throne never departs from heaven.

    The rebellious children of Israel, after they had multiplied and increased, called Jerusalem the throne of the LORD. God did not call Jerusalem His throne, but they (the rebellious children) did. Read from Jeremiah 3:16-25.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Eternal life is the RESULT of FAITH.
    John 3:15-16;
    15 "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    John 6:40; "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
    Below is the sequence from faith to eternal life:
    1. everyone starts out in the first generation of the Christ with the gift of faith from God.
    2. then advances to become a believer in the beginning generation of the Christ.To have faith is not to believe the truth: all believers have faith, but not all faithfuls yet believe.
    3. then the believer in Christ is raised up into the eternal kingdom of the Son in the foundation of God. The overcoming saint becomes an eternal king and an eternal priest. In his eternal priesthood, he rules and is imputed with eternal righteousness that leads to eternal holiness (peace) that leads to the appearing of eternal life.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  6. #21
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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I've looked into these things but find it frustrating to base doctrine on mere allusions to Satan in biblical prophecy. The kings in Isa 14 and Eze 28 refer to the King of Babylon and the King of Tyre. They were historical kings, and although they do seem to depict Satan I don't know how much I can rely on symbolism to establish doctrinal facts?

    I don't know for sure exactly *when* Satan fell? He may have already fallen by the Eden story because logically, Wouldn't Satan had to have fallen *before* he tempted Eve? Beyond this, I've wondered if God produced "darkness" in the Creation Account because Satan had already fallen by that time, being an agent of darkness? Also, why would God have created animals and canine teeth unless Satan had already fallen, and God was interested in producing symbolic truth about divine judgment in Creation?

    The idea of Satan having been created to be a "king" I find interesting. It appears he abused his leadership class by attempting to be like God, ending up a tyrant. Two witnesses among the archangels, Michael and Gabriel, seem to testify against Satan. And there are two angelic witnesses over the ark of the covenant. Satan is not allowed in God's presence, except on the periphery. He is no longer able to be like God, except in terms of perfunctory function. The virtues of God are absent from him, and he is blind to what they are any longer.

    It is interesting that the kings of the earth have the same problems Satan had. They vie with God for control over their kingdoms, and often end up being tyrants. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only true reign is exercised on behalf of God, and not on behalf of the king himself. He must serve in order to reign properly. To serve himself would be to depart from the Lord's own reign over His own Kingdom.

    I have to plead ignorant to so much of this speculation, though we can know for sure that a rebellious spirit exists out there, just as it exists within all men tainted with sin. And if sin is in each one of us, then certainly it is in the hearts of leaders within our societies, as well as in angelic powers supervising history itself.
    Thanks for your answer. I agree with much that you have said. I admit that some of my "speculation" is just that. In my early years I needed "two witnesses" for everything. Everything had to be tested and confirmed. I still do this with doctrine that will form my behavior. But in the matters that do not immediately dictate my behavior, I am prepared to accept the tiniest indication simply because I am so sure of God's Word, that He wrote it in a most calculating way, and that to those who search, He will reveal. I actually enjoy threads like this because the information on the conditions on earth during the Millennium is not the main theme of the Bible, but I have ideas and they need to be tested. Mostly, this job is left to other brothers like you. The Millennium itself is a main theme of both Testaments, but the detail is often missing. But information there is - but not for teaching it as graven in stone.

    Here's something I do as well. After writing down my points as posted, I try to reverse them to see what the opposite would bring. Example; I said "Lucifer was once governor of this earth". Now, if this it not true, what then means those 5 proofs I brought from the Old Testaments and the 3 from the New? How shall we then explain them? But in the end, Lucifer's position in the past is not a governing factor in my Christian life. Lucifer's present status is - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1st Peter 5:8).

  7. #22
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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Set in a hierarchical order are fathers, men, the children of men as well are servants. There isn't a difference between children and servants except that the former are heirs.

    Fathers are brought in to establish men who, in God, are the sons of God. Men are chosen reign as kings because of their riches (human subject and things such as their names, glories and powers). Also, they rule by reason of their works (of their kingdom, righteousness and holiness). In the Scripture, everything about them is great and color coded pure/white.

    Children of men are, in God, called believers in the Christ of God. Throughout the Scripture, everything about them ends in perfection and are color coded gold.

    Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, ruled over the category of children of men (not the men) of Babylon, wherever the children were then found. That is how come his head was seen as gold

    Daniel 2:36-38 do not say that Nebuchadnezzar ruled over the earth, but diligently stated whom/what Nebuchadnezzar ruled over.

    Only the Son of God (the Son of man, the Lamb) rules over the earth with His brethren who are/will be begotten by God.




    God the Son sits on and reigns from His throne in heaven. Remember that the Book of Revelation is about Jesus Christ; He is seen sitting on His throne in heaven. His throne never departs from heaven.

    The rebellious children of Israel, after they had multiplied and increased, called Jerusalem the throne of the LORD. God did not call Jerusalem His throne, but they (the rebellious children) did. Read from Jeremiah 3:16-25.




    Below is the sequence from faith to eternal life:
    1. everyone starts out in the first generation of the Christ with the gift of faith from God.
    2. then advances to become a believer in the beginning generation of the Christ.To have faith is not to believe the truth: all believers have faith, but not all faithfuls yet believe.
    3. then the believer in Christ is raised up into the eternal kingdom of the Son in the foundation of God. The overcoming saint becomes an eternal king and an eternal priest. In his eternal priesthood, he rules and is imputed with eternal righteousness that leads to eternal holiness (peace) that leads to the appearing of eternal life.
    Thank you for your answer. I have read it and noted it. We have both stated our cases. Shall we leave it at that and let the other readers judge?

    God bless.

  8. #23
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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Thanks for your answer. I agree with much that you have said. I admit that some of my "speculation" is just that. In my early years I needed "two witnesses" for everything. Everything had to be tested and confirmed. I still do this with doctrine that will form my behavior. But in the matters that do not immediately dictate my behavior, I am prepared to accept the tiniest indication simply because I am so sure of God's Word, that He wrote it in a most calculating way, and that to those who search, He will reveal. I actually enjoy threads like this because the information on the conditions on earth during the Millennium is not the main theme of the Bible, but I have ideas and they need to be tested. Mostly, this job is left to other brothers like you. The Millennium itself is a main theme of both Testaments, but the detail is often missing. But information there is - but not for teaching it as graven in stone.

    Here's something I do as well. After writing down my points as posted, I try to reverse them to see what the opposite would bring. Example; I said "Lucifer was once governor of this earth". Now, if this it not true, what then means those 5 proofs I brought from the Old Testaments and the 3 from the New? How shall we then explain them? But in the end, Lucifer's position in the past is not a governing factor in my Christian life. Lucifer's present status is - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1st Peter 5:8).
    Well said, and I concur. Thanks for spending the energy--very helpful!

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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Where do you think the resurrected/glorified Church will reign during the Millennial Kingdom? Do you think they will be physical human beings reigning over mortal nations? Or do you think they will be like angels, invisibly reigning over the mortal nations? Perhaps you don't believe in the Millennium at all? What do you think reigning on earth means, if there is a future reign of the Church at all? Thanks! My opinions are somewhat weak in this area.


    What does it mean to reign?

    Romans 5:17
    For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.



    Romans 5:21
    so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.




    We reign with him now through the gift of his grace and the righteousness of the one, the second Adam.


    I cannot come to terms with the idea that we reign over rebellious ignorant God rejecting nations in the future. Today is the day ,as God has fixed a day to repent or perish , that will end at the glorious second coming when the door be shut.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    What does it mean to reign?

    Romans 5:17
    For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.



    Romans 5:21
    so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.




    We reign with him now through the gift of his grace and the righteousness of the one, the second Adam.


    I cannot come to terms with the idea that we reign over rebellious ignorant God rejecting nations in the future. Today is the day ,as God has fixed a day to repent or perish , that will end at the glorious second coming when the door be shut.
    great post Jeff how right you are with reigning over God rejecting people

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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    What does it mean to reign?

    Romans 5:17
    For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.



    Romans 5:21
    so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.




    We reign with him now through the gift of his grace and the righteousness of the one, the second Adam.


    I cannot come to terms with the idea that we reign over rebellious ignorant God rejecting nations in the future. Today is the day ,as God has fixed a day to repent or perish , that will end at the glorious second coming when the door be shut.
    How then do you really feel about it?

    What do you think, Jeff, about the New Earth? Will we be reigning there too, as well?

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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post

    What do you think, Jeff, about the New Earth? Will we be reigning there too, as well?
    Much more so with a body like his. We will be like him , as we shall see him as he is when he appears...glorified. We will reign forever and ever with him when the ungodly are long gone. lol.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Where do you think the resurrected/glorified Church will reign during the Millennial Kingdom? Do you think they will be physical human beings reigning over mortal nations? Or do you think they will be like angels, invisibly reigning over the mortal nations? Perhaps you don't believe in the Millennium at all? What do you think reigning on earth means, if there is a future reign of the Church at all? Thanks! My opinions are somewhat weak in this area.
    One problem with modern millennium theories is that they are essentially elitist. They place a racial group (usually Israel) in a superior position to everybody else. I am Amill for other reasons, but if I were to accept a literal interpretation of the thousand years, I would say that it is the "Church" who rules and reigns on earth with Christ - not a racial elite.

    (and certainly not with a return to animal sacrifice)

    As best as I remember, this is the view of George Ladd, one of the few premillers that I admire.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    One problem with modern millennium theories is that they are essentially elitist. They place a racial group (usually Israel) in a superior position to everybody else. I am Amill for other reasons, but if I were to accept a literal interpretation of the thousand years, I would say that it is the "Church" who rules and reigns on earth with Christ - not a racial elite.

    (and certainly not with a return to animal sacrifice)

    As best as I remember, this is the view of George Ladd, one of the few premillers that I admire.
    I completely agree with you. This is where Dispensationalism comes "unhinged," viewing a restored Israel as once again the "Chosen Nation." I don't think we'll ever go back there. Only Christianity is "chosen." Israel can be "chosen" along with other Christian nations when they become Christian themselves!

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    Re: the Millennial reign of the Church

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I completely agree with you. This is where Dispensationalism comes "unhinged," viewing a restored Israel as once again the "Chosen Nation." I don't think we'll ever go back there. Only Christianity is "chosen." Israel can be "chosen" along with other Christian nations when they become Christian themselves!
    Excellent, Randyk.
    But you realize this destroys the 'rapture to heaven of the Church' theory?

    That is why there is so much opposition to the truth of ethnicity being of no value anymore. The truth that God has no favorites!

    Re; 'elitist people', we who have accepted the Salvation of Jesus and keep His Commandments, ARE the chosen, special, elite people of God. That's how it is and in Romans 9:22-24, we are told very plainly that the godless peoples are due for destruction. God is the Potter, who are we to question His purposes?

    Also, Cyberseeker, I have to challenge you contention that there will not be any more sacrifices. Many prophesies tell of thank offerings and cleansing sacrifices that will be done in the new Temple. Ezekiel 45:13-25 & 46:4-7, Isaiah 56:6-7, Jeremiah 33:11, Daniel 9:27, +

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