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Thread: what about "prophets" of today?

  1. #61
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe."

    In the past means...well....in the past.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  2. #62
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe."

    In the past means...well....in the past.
    Then Agabus wasn't speaking prophetically AFTERwards in the "past" and after Jesus' ascension as well??
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

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  3. #63
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Protective Angel View Post
    Little late here.

    A true prophet can only tell what has already be written in scripture. Anything else would not be prophecy. He could only be pointed by God to events that are already written that we have not understood properly.
    Anyone can not go against what is already written.
    I agree. God has fully revealed his eschatological plans to the church. I don't think there are new prophecies outside the Bible concerning eternal life, salvation, God's kingdom etc that remains to be revealed through a prophet. So in my view, a true prophet today is one that seeks true understanding of the word of God and then breaks it down to the church in a way that is easy to understand.

    Prophecying one or two events that have nothing to do with the Bible which eventually comes to pass doesn't necessarily make one a true prophet. False prophets are able to prophecy events that comes to pass also.

    A true modern prophet's message must have salvation and eternal life at its heart. OT prophets were not everybody's friend, in fact, the majority of ancient Israel hated them because their message reproved them of their sins. Sin has increased manifold from the OT, therefore, a real prophet today reproving society of its departure from God will not be a likeable fellow in society, save the righteous who abide in Christ.

  4. #64
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    Interesting, can you explain?
    First he told the king he was going to die. But the king repented and the Lord spoke to Isaiah again that we would not die but live another 15 years. Someone just hearing the first prophesy would claim Isaiah to be a false prophet because he did not die. My point is that even when prophesy is spot on, there are variables that are sometimes unknown by the hearers. These variables can sometimes give the appearance that the word was not fulfilled. We should judge, but not be quick to judge.

  5. #65
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    God is still speaking to his prophets, but I'm reluctant to accept that prophecies of a flood, earthquake or something like John Doe being the president one day, are actually from God. My doubt is because God is not a soothsayer. Throughout the scriptures, we see the sense of God's prophecies. They are either a warning to refrain and repent from sin, warnings of judgment to come, or promises of mercy and redemption, etc.

    We can easily understand the significance of each prophecy, its relevance to the people prophecied to, etc. But I'm really struggling to associate some of the so-called prophecies of modern times to God (it makes no difference whether they come to pass or not). The question that comes to mind is, what is God's objective here? For example, I'll wait until Israel actually moves its capital to Jerusalem and perhaps, the remotest possibility of rebuilding the temple before I believe that God has a hand in Donald Trump's presidency.

  6. #66
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe."

    In the past means...well....in the past.
    Something can happen in the past, and also be in the present. It can also be in the future.

  7. #67
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlyCall View Post
    I personally would not call seeking guidance and answers prophetic but rather seeking to be led by the Holy Spirit. Do you think God directs our paths more often without us even being aware of it than He does when we are seeking for such things?
    Jesus said that *if* we seek, *then* we will find. That means we will not see God's prophetic guidance if we are not praying for it, and seeking it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlyCall
    Here's the bottom line for me. To seek God is better than to seek signs and wonders, or to seek answers to what may or may not come to pass. Trust in God and exercising faith in God does not come through knowing things but rather through not knowing, and when God would have us know something, if we seek Him, He will make it known.
    We are told not to seek "signs" when we have already rejected Jesus' answer. That's what the Pharisees did. They pursued signs even though they had already rejected Jesus. King Herod wanted Jesus to perform signs, but Jesus was interested only in people willing to serve him.

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlyCall
    But that's how I see it and just my thinking and I may be wrong, but it's where I'm at and what I've got to go on at this time. I do believe God gives answers and speaks to us through others at times, and I've not said I don't believe that.

    I have a problem with those running around saying this and that and claiming it is a word from God and they have one every day like clockwork. They are vague and open to interpretation to each person hearing or reading it, and they come with such frequency that no one can keep up with them or judge them because it seems to me the goal is to move from the one today to the one tomorrow and so on and so forth. And such people call themselves prophets and I'm sorry but I don't buy into it nor give them my time.
    I understand your frustration--I've had my own share of it. But the reality is, a relationship with a supernatural God is in fact a *prophetic* thing. God's word is heard by us, in one way or another. And so we are always sensing divine guidance in some way--if only in morals or in good character.

    We do tend to go wild with "God showed me this," and "God showed me that." Maybe it's just our own imagination, or what *we* want to have happen?

    We have to put up with our own imperfections, and with the imperfections of others. This does not mean they're always wrong to say "God showed me this." More often than not I think Christians are right when they say God is revealing something to them. I just expect errors, because we are by nature flawed creatures.

  8. #68
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Something can happen in the past, and also be in the present. It can also be in the future.
    That verse means that when speaking prophetically we are speaking on behalf of Christ, from whom all prophecy now flows. So if we have Christ living in us - we do - and he is with us when we gather together - he is - then we can readily prophesy with the expectation that the other prophets around us (all of us) will lend their input, feedback, agreement, or disagreement. The prophecies of the past through the "ancestors" were specifically related to the matters of Israel and the law, a paradigm that has ended. God required very specific things to be accomplished and sent prophets to accomplish those things with specific messages. We no longer have those specific missions and purposes, the spirit of God has spread into the world, to the gentiles, and no more mission exists but love thy neighbor. We act abstractly in a world of spiritual conditions (fruit) which we recognize and nurture through edification and even collaboration using the gifts god has given the church. The church following God closely has no need of predictions, all predictions are meaningless in the face of the certain death of all men, and a certain resurrection only for believers.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    That verse means that when speaking prophetically we are speaking on behalf of Christ, from whom all prophecy now flows. So if we have Christ living in us - we do - and he is with us when we gather together - he is - then we can readily prophesy with the expectation that the other prophets around us (all of us) will lend their input, feedback, agreement, or disagreement. The prophecies of the past through the "ancestors" were specifically related to the matters of Israel and the law, a paradigm that has ended. God required very specific things to be accomplished and sent prophets to accomplish those things with specific messages. We no longer have those specific missions and purposes, the spirit of God has spread into the world, to the gentiles, and no more mission exists but love thy neighbor. We act abstractly in a world of spiritual conditions (fruit) which we recognize and nurture through edification and even collaboration using the gifts god has given the church. The church following God closely has no need of predictions, all predictions are meaningless in the face of the certain death of all men, and a certain resurrection only for believers.
    Aijalon, I wouldn't give up so fast. I've heard it said that Augustine was about to give up on miracles of healing because he just never saw them happen. But then later in his life he began to see them happen.

    I'd like to suggest that God moves in waves. It may depend on the "climate" of a nation. We may expect that there are times when God does not speak very directly, either to our nation or to us as an individual.

    But I do think things can change. I really expect God to get more specific, and those who "seek God" will prophesy more, and see more miracles. I don't think it's wrong to want them. These things are not difficult with God. It's just hard for God to entrust us with these things. We could turn around and stab Him in the back, making Him look bad.

    We can't produce miracles ourselves. We can't do the supernatural without God. And we shouldn't pretend to have supernatural gifts. We shouldn't speak in tongues if we don't really have that gift. We shouldn't speak in tongues just because the Pentecostals say everyone must speak in tongues to show they have the Holy Spirit!

    You're right, though. I do get words of counsel from fellow believers. God chooses to speak through who He wants to speak through. That's a major reason I come on sites like this--not just to persuade others of my positions, but so as to "hear from God" through others. Even if I don't agree with them I often find elements of truth that I can benefit from. Ultimately, I hope our "words from God" become more specific, so that we can come to a better consensus!

  10. #70
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I understand your frustration--I've had my own share of it.
    And what did you learn?

  11. #71
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Jesus said that *if* we seek, *then* we will find. That means we will not see God's prophetic guidance if we are not praying for it, and seeking it.
    You have taken a verse of scripture and then added to it something that simply isn't true. Your statement makes a claim that isn't true. What was Moses seeking when God spoke to him when he saw the burning bush? What was Samuel seeking when God called his name in the middle of the night? What were the disciples seeking when Jesus called them?

    We have to be careful making statements that are supposed truisms. For example. If I say all men with red hair have green eyes, if even one man with red hair does not have green eyes, then the statement is false and not true.

    Finally, your statement above puts God in a box, for He is able to speak to us whether we seek or not, and as I've shown by example - He does.

    Now, that said, we are to seek, but God will often not answer, and this is reality. God never told Job the "why" of the matter. And oftentimes God will reveal and speak when we do seek.

    Also, do you not think that God enjoys revealing Himself and what He has done without our ever being aware of His doing it until after He had done it? Then we can look back in awe and praise Him for it and say wow, I had no idea but all along God was doing such and such.

    i think I do understand the intent of what you've said, but it isn't accurate, and so we need to be careful when we speak in absolutes.

  12. #72
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    First he told the king he was going to die. But the king repented and the Lord spoke to Isaiah again that we would not die but live another 15 years. Someone just hearing the first prophesy would claim Isaiah to be a false prophet because he did not die. My point is that even when prophesy is spot on, there are variables that are sometimes unknown by the hearers. These variables can sometimes give the appearance that the word was not fulfilled. We should judge, but not be quick to judge.
    Nice

  13. #73
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    And what did you learn?
    I'm still learning....

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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlyCall View Post
    You have taken a verse of scripture and then added to it something that simply isn't true. Your statement makes a claim that isn't true. What was Moses seeking when God spoke to him when he saw the burning bush? What was Samuel seeking when God called his name in the middle of the night? What were the disciples seeking when Jesus called them?

    We have to be careful making statements that are supposed truisms. For example. If I say all men with red hair have green eyes, if even one man with red hair does not have green eyes, then the statement is false and not true.

    Finally, your statement above puts God in a box, for He is able to speak to us whether we seek or not, and as I've shown by example - He does.

    Now, that said, we are to seek, but God will often not answer, and this is reality. God never told Job the "why" of the matter. And oftentimes God will reveal and speak when we do seek.

    Also, do you not think that God enjoys revealing Himself and what He has done without our ever being aware of His doing it until after He had done it? Then we can look back in awe and praise Him for it and say wow, I had no idea but all along God was doing such and such.

    i think I do understand the intent of what you've said, but it isn't accurate, and so we need to be careful when we speak in absolutes.
    No, I would agree with you. I was not speaking "in absolutes" as you suggested.

  15. #75
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    Re: what about "prophets" of today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    First he told the king he was going to die. But the king repented and the Lord spoke to Isaiah again that we would not die but live another 15 years. Someone just hearing the first prophesy would claim Isaiah to be a false prophet because he did not die. My point is that even when prophesy is spot on, there are variables that are sometimes unknown by the hearers. These variables can sometimes give the appearance that the word was not fulfilled. We should judge, but not be quick to judge.
    Yes, that's true. But for me the bigger issue is, What about Christians who sometimes give true prophecies and sometimes do not? I'm talking about the Christian who always says, "God told me this, and God told me that?" He or she might say, "I feel God telling you to do this or that." But sometimes it is God, and sometimes it is not.

    I think that people try to fit into their theology, into their doctrine. They think they should prophesy "on demand," and so prophesy sometimes when they feel inspired, and also prophesy just because they think "they can." They think they can, and should, prophesy everything that enters into their minds!

    This is, I believe, a matter of people confusing the genuine gift of prophecy with their doctrines. We are flawed people, and need to "judge prophecy," as Paul indicated in 1 Corinthians. I think it suggests that sometimes Christians do get it wrong with respect to prophecy.

    1 Cor 14.29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

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