Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 65

Thread: 2 horned Beast

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    7,888

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I don't like long posts, so instead I am going to ask you to do homework

    If you do research you will find that ancient Jewish writings assigned a beast/animal to a demon prince who ruled over an area. For example the demon prince Dobiel/Bear is the prince of Persia according to Jewish tradition. This knowledge helps us to understand the four beasts of Daniel 7 better, because the wording strangely uses the "symbol" of "kings" in v17 to illustrate four reigning kingdoms which are in power for hundreds of years each. Why then use the symbol "kings" when the symbol "beasts" is already in use to describe these four ongoing kingdoms? The answer is that these are kings, it isn't a symbol. These are four demon prince kings. Just like Gog.

    The false prophet is a demon prince king who rules two territories, Europe/Vatican and Istanbul/MEast. This false prophet manifests in two prophetic kingdoms, whose unity is the healed 6th head of Rome. So united Rome supports the move of the Roman beast to a new location, Jerusalem, where the demon prince is given a mouth/eyes, he manifests in a human, the antichrist.

    Ephesians 7:12 our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness

    If you think I'm far fetched that Persia had a demon prince, read this:
    Daniel 10 the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia
    Durban, I've looked this up before, because I think Glory brought it up for some reason. But my question was, how can there be a single False Prophet, and two imperials cities in conflict with one another? Would it be a Pope or an Ayatollah? If you say the two Beasts are two demon princes, then you don't have a human Antichrist, and I would have to reject that. Throughout history the Antichrist has been viewed as a human being. And so has the False Prophet often been viewed as a human being. I'm unclear whether you reject the Antichrist and the False Prophet as being two actual men--or just two demon princes?

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    6,922

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Durban, I've looked this up before, because I think Glory brought it up for some reason. But my question was, how can there be a single False Prophet, and two imperials cities in conflict with one another? Would it be a Pope or an Ayatollah? If you say the two Beasts are two demon princes, then you don't have a human Antichrist, and I would have to reject that. Throughout history the Antichrist has been viewed as a human being. And so has the False Prophet often been viewed as a human being. I'm unclear whether you reject the Antichrist and the False Prophet as being two actual men--or just two demon princes?
    The false prophet is an end times demon prince who takes authority of the two Roman Cities of Istanbul and Rome. Just like any other demon prince he would have a strong influence over the leaders of his territory, Pope and Caliph. He is a false prophet because he promotes the false prophetic doctrine of both the Catholic Church and Islam. The wording never implies that he is a human being, the false prophet is not given a mouth or eyes like a man.

    The demon prince of the first beast, is when the location of the capital of Rome moves to a new location, Jerusalem. This demon prince is given "a mouth", meaning he manifests through a human being, the antichrist. The demon is given a human to express himself through. Some used the word "possessed" , I am not sure, but certainly evil manifests in the antichrist.

    This covers all your objection and explains why four long ruling kingdoms in Daniel 7 are called four kings.

    Have you an alternative explanation for kingdoms described strangely as kings in Daniel 7?
    Furthermore do you have any biblical reason to see the beast/kingdom of the false prophet as a human?

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    7,888

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    The false prophet is an end times demon prince who takes authority of the two Roman Cities of Istanbul and Rome. Just like any other demon prince he would have a strong influence over the leaders of his territory, Pope and Caliph. He is a false prophet because he promotes the false prophetic doctrine of both the Catholic Church and Islam. The wording never implies that he is a human being, the false prophet is not given a mouth or eyes like a man.

    The demon prince of the first beast, is when the location of the capital of Rome moves to a new location, Jerusalem. This demon prince is given "a mouth", meaning he manifests through a human being, the antichrist. The demon is given a human to express himself through. Some used the word "possessed" , I am not sure, but certainly evil manifests in the antichrist.

    This covers all your objection and explains why four long ruling kingdoms in Daniel 7 are called four kings.

    Have you an alternative explanation for kingdoms described strangely as kings in Daniel 7?
    Furthermore do you have any biblical reason to see the beast/kingdom of the false prophet as a human?
    I see the false prophet as a human largely because he appears as such in Revelation.

    Rev 19.20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

    I suppose you could see it otherwise, but if the Antichrist is a human, it seems the False Prophet would be a human also. And as you suggest, the Antichrist has eyes and a mouth, indicating he is a man. And if he stands alongside the False Prophet, suffering the same fate, it stands to reason they are both men.

    But I have no inside info on the False Prophet. The Antichrist is the "Little Horn" of Dan 7. And Paul describes him in 2 Thes 2. Pretty clear on that front. But the False Prophet seems to have no precedent.

    It also seems to me that if "beasts" are "demon spirits," then that would make the Antichrist a "demon spirit." And that seems contradicted by Scriptures, which identify Antichrist as a man.

    I do see the "beasts" of Dan 7 as successive empires, or kingdoms. And they are "kings" because the kings lead the kingdoms. But no, I don't know anything more about the False Prophet. The key seems to be finding in Rev 12 a link to something in OT prophecy. I just don't know what it is!

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    6,922

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I see the false prophet as a human largely because he appears as such in Revelation.

    Rev 19.20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

    I suppose you could see it otherwise, but if the Antichrist is a human, it seems the False Prophet would be a human also. And as you suggest, the Antichrist has eyes and a mouth, indicating he is a man. And if he stands alongside the False Prophet, suffering the same fate, it stands to reason they are both men.

    But I have no inside info on the False Prophet. The Antichrist is the "Little Horn" of Dan 7. And Paul describes him in 2 Thes 2. Pretty clear on that front. But the False Prophet seems to have no precedent.

    It also seems to me that if "beasts" are "demon spirits," then that would make the Antichrist a "demon spirit." And that seems contradicted by Scriptures, which identify Antichrist as a man.

    I do see the "beasts" of Dan 7 as successive empires, or kingdoms. And they are "kings" because the kings lead the kingdoms. But no, I don't know anything more about the False Prophet. The key seems to be finding in Rev 12 a link to something in OT prophecy. I just don't know what it is!
    If we see beasts as demon kings of kingdoms, much like the prince of Persia described in Daniel 10 then we can understand that there's a difference between the beast and that beast given "eyes" or a "voice" or a "mouth". When the demon prince is expressing itself strongly through a ruler, then it now has a "mouthpiece". A human.

    The Bible just describes one judgement day for unsaved humans, described in Rev 20 for ALL the unsaved. No exceptions, there is no special judgement day for the antichrist 1000 years earlier.

    The two beasts (demon princes) are thrown into the lake of fire first, then 1000 years later Satan is thrown into the lake of fire, only then are humans judged at the great white throne. So your assertion that it has to be a human thrown into the fire, is not in the text.

    It is not the eyes/mouth of the beast thrown into the lake, it's the beast itself. This is not the antichrist, but the antichrist's demon prince. I know it's a non biblical source, that describes these dmon princes as animals, nevertheless it was a commonly held belief system in Israel. The demon prince of Persia, Dobiel was the bear, and yet the Bible uses the same description for Persian king/kingdom/beast

    The link is between Daniel 2 and Rev 13. Both describe a two part empire in power at the end. Unless there are four empires, the two horns of the false prophet beast are Rome.
    Last edited by DurbanDude; Mar 15th 2018 at 05:19 AM.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,216
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Just a thought I'd like to throw out there. Is it possible the 2 horned 2nd Beast of Rev 13 may refer to a Catholic Pope, representing the German/Roman axis of the Western Roman Empire?

    In the past I thought that the 2 horns may symbolize the East/West axis of the old Roman Empire, centered in Rome and in Constantinople. But I'm now wondering if perhaps this 2 horns like a Lamb are better represented by Christian Germany and Christian Rome? The East hardly looks like a "Lamb!"

    Also, it would explain the development of a false Super Church, healing the Protestant/Catholic divide.

    All opinions welcome!
    The error is to think the 2 horned beast looks like a lamb.
    It doesn't. ONLY the horns are like Lamb's horns, which means they are short stubs/nubs and not full blown horns at all.
    This means, unlike the Goat with the Great horn, this 2 horned beast doesn't have much power of its own.
    It has two sources of power, but they are BOTH weak.
    Instead its position is assured by its role in supporting the 10 horned beast.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    7,888

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The error is to think the 2 horned beast looks like a lamb.
    It doesn't. ONLY the horns are like Lamb's horns, which means they are short stubs/nubs and not full blown horns at all.
    This means, unlike the Goat with the Great horn, this 2 horned beast doesn't have much power of its own.
    It has two sources of power, but they are BOTH weak.
    Instead its position is assured by its role in supporting the 10 horned beast.
    So, you don't think this is meant to be a counterfeit "Lamb of God?" Interesting thought. Lambs have got to be one of the most vulnerable creatures on earth. It's said that their best natural defense is the shepherd!

    But this False Prophet doesn't look in the least "weak." So I'm not sure how you're wanting to apply these "two weak horns?"

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    6,922

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So, you don't think this is meant to be a counterfeit "Lamb of God?" Interesting thought. Lambs have got to be one of the most vulnerable creatures on earth. It's said that their best natural defense is the shepherd!

    But this False Prophet doesn't look in the least "weak." So I'm not sure how you're wanting to apply these "two weak horns?"
    I regard horn size as relative to geographical size. Two tiny places geographically which control much of the religious thought of Earth.

    But weak powers militarily and strong religiously can also work.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    7,888

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I regard horn size as relative to geographical size. Two tiny places geographically which control much of the religious thought of Earth.

    But weak powers militarily and strong religiously can also work.
    That's true. I'm looking back at the two horns of the Ram in Dan 8, which I believe was Medo-Persia. And I'm looking at the contrast in Rev 13.11 indicating that there is this opposition between appearing as a Lamb and speaking as a Dragon. Let's look at these two elements.

    1) If the two horns of the Ram in Dan 8 represented two connected peoples, the Medes and the Persians, then the two horns like a Lamb likewise indicated two connected peoples.

    2) The fact it was not actually a Lamb, but *like* a Lamb, seems significant. It just *looked* like a Lamb, but was actually a bilateral people dominated by Satanic rule.

    So how can it look like a Lamb and not *be* a Lamb? It sounds very much like false religion. It appears to be Lamb-like, and pacifistic. But in reality it is incredibly dangerous, like a Dragon. And as you suggest, its power may appear to be small and limited. But through the Antichrist this False Prophet may be incredibly strong.

    John is seeing this vision in his own time. But I'm not sure if he's talking about something that already existed in some form, or about something yet to come? The 1st Beast had 7 heads, and if these heads had already begun to exist, in consecutive fashion, then perhaps the 2nd Beast already existed in some form as well?

    I do think it's possible that the 2 horns could form the two parts of the old Roman Empire. So that could either be a corruption of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, or that could be a union between Rome and Istanbul. I guess I haven't moved much on this subject?

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    6,922

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    That's true. I'm looking back at the two horns of the Ram in Dan 8, which I believe was Medo-Persia. And I'm looking at the contrast in Rev 13.11 indicating that there is this opposition between appearing as a Lamb and speaking as a Dragon. Let's look at these two elements.

    1) If the two horns of the Ram in Dan 8 represented two connected peoples, the Medes and the Persians, then the two horns like a Lamb likewise indicated two connected peoples.

    2) The fact it was not actually a Lamb, but *like* a Lamb, seems significant. It just *looked* like a Lamb, but was actually a bilateral people dominated by Satanic rule.

    So how can it look like a Lamb and not *be* a Lamb? It sounds very much like false religion. It appears to be Lamb-like, and pacifistic. But in reality it is incredibly dangerous, like a Dragon. And as you suggest, its power may appear to be small and limited. But through the Antichrist this False Prophet may be incredibly strong.

    John is seeing this vision in his own time. But I'm not sure if he's talking about something that already existed in some form, or about something yet to come? The 1st Beast had 7 heads, and if these heads had already begun to exist, in consecutive fashion, then perhaps the 2nd Beast already existed in some form as well?

    I do think it's possible that the 2 horns could form the two parts of the old Roman Empire. So that could either be a corruption of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, or that could be a union between Rome and Istanbul. I guess I haven't moved much on this subject?
    The word beast means basically dangerous wild animal. Only the horns are like a lamb, that's what the text says. You say the beast itself looks like a lamb, I say the beast looks like a wild animal. The two horns look like a lamb. We would be silly to picture two tiny lambs on the wild beasts head, obviously the text didn't mean the two horns look like two lambs, it means the two horns look like two lambs horns.

    So we don't have to speculate on the lamb like nature of the beast, that is not meant in the text. The lamb like nature of the horns reflects in their small size.

    Whether that small size means it has a small military or non existent military like the Vatican, or it means it has a small area of direct rule , like the Vatican, both fit.

    The comparison with the two horns of Media Persia should extend to the comparison of the four Greek horns as well to get a good feel for what horns represent. Unlike the Media-Persian Empire the four Greek Empires had the same cultures in charge and a variety of cultures split into four. By this we can see that the emphasis is on location, not ruling people. Two shifting locations for the rule of Media Persia, and four separate locations for Greece.

    Applying this to the two horns, it means two tiny locations ( or small militaries). Rev 13 then describes how this false prophet kingdom of the two locations had immense influence and power over nations.

    I cannot divorce the idea of the"divided" kingdom of two feet in Daniel 2 from the idea of this two location kingdom of Rev 13. I see a match between the split Rome of Istanbul/Rome and these two religious powers of two locations. To see four world influencing powers at the end does not appeal to my reasoning.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,216
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So, you don't think this is meant to be a counterfeit "Lamb of God?" Interesting thought. Lambs have got to be one of the most vulnerable creatures on earth. It's said that their best natural defense is the shepherd!

    But this False Prophet doesn't look in the least "weak." So I'm not sure how you're wanting to apply these "two weak horns?"
    No it is NOT a counterfeit Lamb of God. It is the AC who is the counterfeit Lamb.
    This is the False Prophet and the closest would be a counterfeit Elijah.
    Lambs are indeed weak, but this picture is NOT a lamb, ONLY the horns of a lamb.
    So many get this wrong. Lamb's horns are small and ineffectual and not something that worries us. It is the Voice of this beast which is what should worry us. It speaks like a dragon.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    5,300
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    No it is NOT a counterfeit Lamb of God. It is the AC who is the counterfeit Lamb.
    This is the False Prophet and the closest would be a counterfeit Elijah.
    Lambs are indeed weak, but this picture is NOT a lamb, ONLY the horns of a lamb.
    So many get this wrong. Lamb's horns are small and ineffectual and not something that worries us. It is the Voice of this beast which is what should worry us. It speaks like a dragon.
    Totally agree. Scripturally, *horn* denotes power, strength and influence. So when the passage describes the FP as having two horns like a lamb, it is a clear suggestion that his power is weaker than that of the first beast, i.e. AC.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    5,300
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    The word beast means basically dangerous wild animal. Only the horns are like a lamb, that's what the text says. You say the beast itself looks like a lamb, I say the beast looks like a wild animal. The two horns look like a lamb. We would be silly to picture two tiny lambs on the wild beasts head, obviously the text didn't mean the two horns look like two lambs, it means the two horns look like two lambs horns.

    So we don't have to speculate on the lamb like nature of the beast, that is not meant in the text. The lamb like nature of the horns reflects in their small size.

    Whether that small size means it has a small military or non existent military like the Vatican, or it means it has a small area of direct rule , like the Vatican, both fit.

    The comparison with the two horns of Media Persia should extend to the comparison of the four Greek horns as well to get a good feel for what horns represent. Unlike the Media-Persian Empire the four Greek Empires had the same cultures in charge and a variety of cultures split into four. By this we can see that the emphasis is on location, not ruling people. Two shifting locations for the rule of Media Persia, and four separate locations for Greece.

    Applying this to the two horns, it means two tiny locations ( or small militaries). Rev 13 then describes how this false prophet kingdom of the two locations had immense influence and power over nations.

    I cannot divorce the idea of the"divided" kingdom of two feet in Daniel 2 from the idea of this two location kingdom of Rev 13. I see a match between the split Rome of Istanbul/Rome and these two religious powers of two locations. To see four world influencing powers at the end does not appeal to my reasoning.
    Horns have nothing to do with an army, its size or territory. Horns are used in many places in OT, especially in the Book of Psalms. Are you, therefore, saying that every use of horn refers to the strength of an army? Of course, such a conclusion will be silly

    The simple meaning of *horn* in scripture is power and strength. Lambs are not known to have big and fearsome horns, so "two little horns like a Lamb" suggests that the power of the beast (FP) is weak in comparison to the first beast, i.e. the Antichrist.

  13. #28

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    The way that i would understand this 2 horned beast would be to refer back to Daniel 7, and the best that rises out of sea.
    There we see the beast represents a kingdom, a realm of dominion, headed up by the little horn, also referred to as a beast. Tho not of utmost importance to see that these 4 beasts are 4 kings, not necessarily kingdoms, [tho they each head up their respective kingdoms], the beasts are referred to as kings. So, the 4th beast is the king of this 4th kingdom. This beast with two horns then represents a kingdom (singular). And just as the 10 horns, as well as the little horn, each represent a subdivision of the 4th kingdom, i.e., 10 subordinate kings [vice presidents if you will, just as Daniel was one of three presidents to rule in Babylon] within this 2 horned kingdom.
    In this case, we have 2 "presidents" ruling this kingdom. The most obvious answer to who these 2 presidents are would be the 1st beast (from the sea, The Beast) and the false prophet. When we look at the interaction of the beast and false prophet, i see the situation similar to that of Moses and Aaron. Moses was the leader, but Aaron was the spokesperson for the nation/ kingdom. The thing that brings this idea to the forefront is the FP's promotion of the beast. So what do we make of the dominion of this kingdom? Why is it called the beast from the earth? How ever we view the "earthly" beast, or should be in the form of type/ antitype to the "sea" beast. I see two possible methodology answers possible. The "sea" represents the realm of the dead [the four kings rise up from the ground] And the"earth" represents the realm of the living. Two short reasons why i see this is possible because:
    1. He is called the son of perdition(2 Thess 2,Rev 17:8], and
    2. He ascends out of the bottomless pit and was wounded to death, Rev. 13.
    The other possibility for the sea & earth would be that the sea simply represents non - existant and the earth would be the visible, as a transformation from his kingdom of the 10 horns to the greater dominion [afterwards] of the leopard, bear and lion.
    *[[Rev 13:2]] KJV* And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    I see (imho) the 10 horns primarily representing Islamic countries, led by the little horn. Becoming the beast of Rev. 13 where his summoning is expanded to contain the former kingdom's of brass [nails/Greece] and Iron [Teeth/ Rome]. This is illustrated by being
    "Like a leopard", "bears feet" and "lions mouth". What this amounts to would be the full extent of the Roman Empire. This would, to me, settle the offsite of there being only 4 kingdoms in Daniel 2. The revival of the Empire of Rome, being different from just the kingdom of 10 horns/ toes, being the kingdom of iron and clay.
    I see the possibility of some sort of unholy bond between Catholicism and Islam. I don't think this necessarily means the heads of Islam and the Catholic church, aka the pope, but i would not preclude that being possible. But I do see this 2 horned beast as some sort of joint rulership of the kingdom, that arises after the time of great tribulation.

    The PuP

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    6,922

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Horns have nothing to do with an army, its size or territory. Horns are used in many places in OT, especially in the Book of Psalms. Are you, therefore, saying that every use of horn refers to the strength of an army? Of course, such a conclusion will be silly

    The simple meaning of *horn* in scripture is power and strength. Lambs are not known to have big and fearsome horns, so "two little horns like a Lamb" suggests that the power of the beast (FP) is weak in comparison to the first beast, i.e. the Antichrist.
    Yes this makes sense. I can go with power or strength.a large horn being a powerful kingdom. (Power does denote military strength though). A small horn therefore having less power. And the FP being weak in comparison to the beast. This makes sense.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    7,888

    Re: 2 horned Beast

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    The way that i would understand this 2 horned beast would be to refer back to Daniel 7, and the best that rises out of sea.
    There we see the beast represents a kingdom, a realm of dominion, headed up by the little horn, also referred to as a beast. Tho not of utmost importance to see that these 4 beasts are 4 kings, not necessarily kingdoms, [tho they each head up their respective kingdoms], the beasts are referred to as kings. So, the 4th beast is the king of this 4th kingdom. This beast with two horns then represents a kingdom (singular). And just as the 10 horns, as well as the little horn, each represent a subdivision of the 4th kingdom, i.e., 10 subordinate kings [vice presidents if you will, just as Daniel was one of three presidents to rule in Babylon] within this 2 horned kingdom.
    In this case, we have 2 "presidents" ruling this kingdom. The most obvious answer to who these 2 presidents are would be the 1st beast (from the sea, The Beast) and the false prophet. When we look at the interaction of the beast and false prophet, i see the situation similar to that of Moses and Aaron. Moses was the leader, but Aaron was the spokesperson for the nation/ kingdom. The thing that brings this idea to the forefront is the FP's promotion of the beast. So what do we make of the dominion of this kingdom? Why is it called the beast from the earth? How ever we view the "earthly" beast, or should be in the form of type/ antitype to the "sea" beast. I see two possible methodology answers possible. The "sea" represents the realm of the dead [the four kings rise up from the ground] And the"earth" represents the realm of the living. Two short reasons why i see this is possible because:
    1. He is called the son of perdition(2 Thess 2,Rev 17:8], and
    2. He ascends out of the bottomless pit and was wounded to death, Rev. 13.
    The other possibility for the sea & earth would be that the sea simply represents non - existant and the earth would be the visible, as a transformation from his kingdom of the 10 horns to the greater dominion [afterwards] of the leopard, bear and lion.
    *[[Rev 13:2]] KJV* And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    I see (imho) the 10 horns primarily representing Islamic countries, led by the little horn. Becoming the beast of Rev. 13 where his summoning is expanded to contain the former kingdom's of brass [nails/Greece] and Iron [Teeth/ Rome]. This is illustrated by being
    "Like a leopard", "bears feet" and "lions mouth". What this amounts to would be the full extent of the Roman Empire. This would, to me, settle the offsite of there being only 4 kingdoms in Daniel 2. The revival of the Empire of Rome, being different from just the kingdom of 10 horns/ toes, being the kingdom of iron and clay.
    I see the possibility of some sort of unholy bond between Catholicism and Islam. I don't think this necessarily means the heads of Islam and the Catholic church, aka the pope, but i would not preclude that being possible. But I do see this 2 horned beast as some sort of joint rulership of the kingdom, that arises after the time of great tribulation.

    The PuP
    This is a little difficult to wade through, but it gives me some related thoughts. The 4 beasts, the 10 horns, and the Little Horn (Dan 7) are, in my thinking, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome, the 10 nations associated with Antichrist at the end of the age, and the Antichrist himself.

    Inasmuch as the Antichrist is identified as a "Little Horn" makes me wonder if the "2 Beasts" in Rev 13 are individual men, and not just kingdoms? We know the Beasts represent Kingdoms, but we also know that a Little Horn on the 4th Beast is a man.

    The "horn" is "little" because it isn't a Kingdom--it is an individual. And so, the 1st Beast may represent a series of kingdoms, but it also represents an individual. The Beast itself in Revelation is identified not just as a Kingdom, but also as a man.

    So, the 2nd Beast may thus also represent an individual. But as a "Lamb" he may also represent a rather new development in history, following the long tradition of Imperial Rome. It may represent the fact that the apostasy of the Roman Christian tradition will take place purely at the end of history. It will be a "young" movement. If this Beast is "weak" at all, it will be because the Christian Church has apostacized, and is in decline, and is now devoted to the powerful 1st Beast.

    I do see the 4th Beast as representative of the Roman Empire, the final imperial tradition on earth that subverts the holy tradition. This can only be, presently, European Civilization. Christianity has grown up on the back of this "Beast Imperial Tradition," and is now becoming a "Harlot." It is actually coming back to life as a pagan entity, persecuting the Holy Tradition. This speaks, to me, of an apostate Catholic Church! The Catholic Church has had east and west branches, and so may be represented by the "Two Horns."

    The mixture of "clay" and "iron" does not seem to suggest a mix of Christianity and Islam. The Harlot would represent, for me, an apostate Christianity--not Islam. The "clay" represents the rise of Humanism in Christian history. The "iron" represents the imperial rule of Christianity in the former Roman Imperial Tradition.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: Sep 7th 2017, 03:37 PM
  2. Discussion The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Number
    By Kofoworola Awojobi in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: Jul 23rd 2015, 08:44 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •