Why Did Adam and Eve Choose To Sin? [for debate]

[qbee]

Adam and Eve chose to sin because God allowed them to have free agency..
He didnt want to create robots. They chose to go outside of Gods will
because they didnt KNOW what evil was (Evil is being outside of Gods will)
or the consequences of being outside of Gods will.. Without God or being in
his will there is only.. EVIL Death suffering pain sorrow. They NEVER
experienced this so they did not understand the true consequences of
disobeying God and being outside of his will... They didnt trust what he said.

God allowed Adam and Eve (mankind) to be tempted by evil and go outside
of his will.. So that he could teach us and so mankind will know without a
doubt that only in God will we have ... Eternal Life, peace, love, Joy and Happines..

Without him showing us Evil we would NEVER Know what and who
God really is... All powerfull, merciful, Just, kind , forgiving, Loving..
Now we trust him and believe what he said was true... But we have
inherited Adam and Eves sinfull nature through our flesh...

He wants us to know him and understand that without him....
We are forever lost..

The REAL reason God allowed Adam and Eve (mankind) to sin and experience
Evil.. Is Because he loves us and wanted us to fully trust him and he will bring
us back into his will and destroy.. Evil forever... And then once again it will be good..
But this time very very Good... Forever

[Doma]

It may not be a case of 'want' or 'will', but a case of inevitability.

God knew that Adam would sin, period. He knew it, before Adam ever conceived the notion.
As far as God is concerned, it was already an accomplished fact.

As far as God is concerned, everything is already an accomplished fact.
We are the ones lagging behind.

Of coarse He knew, thus we know from scripture that Jesus died before the foundations of the World. But this was not the will of God. And yes God has a will, in fact there are 3 levels to His will:

Rom 12:
1: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1. The Good
2. The Acceptable
3. The Perfect

You know the english word "sin" comes from the British terminology from archery and missing the target. A target has 3 circles. the bulls eye is God's perfect will. The inner circle is God's acceptable will, and the outer ring is His good will, missing the target completely is a sin. This is what Adam and Eve did. They missed the target.

Anyone who says it was God's plan for Adam to miss the target is living in heresy. God knew it, I do not deny, but it was not His will. He did not plan it, but made arrangments to fix it.

Eph:1:11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Here we see He causes all things even failure to work toward His will. Thus He has a will, but even a failure to accomplish it will not defeat God's will. Adam's sin was NOT God's will, but God nevertheless used it.

[qbee]

God hates evil ...which is (anything outside his will)

It is NOT Gods will that Adam or mankind should sin... and his will in this
will be accomplished.... Through his perfect plan of salvation to do this.

In fact in Gods eyes this has already been accomplished..
His will is all there is... He is just proving this to mankind..

It is Gods will that only that which is Good and righteous exist.

But he does allows evil and sin in this world to show mankind that it can
NOT be done for anyone outside of his will... He allows evil to teach us
this and he will destroy evil (satan) after he (it) has fufilled this purpose..

Satan and all his temptations will be thrown into the lake of fire forever..

Then Gods will, that only that which is Good and righteous exists,
will be accomplished in our eyes also.. We will no longer be confused
or even desire to be outside his will..

This is his plan and this is his will,
It WILL be done on earth as it is in heaven...

He is in control of all things even evil...
Everything created is only created for Gods glory and to bring
mankind through Jesus into Gods perfect will.. Which is.....

Goodness, kindness. mercy, Justice, Love.. etc etc... Forever..

[ChristopherE]

I agree. She understood what God had commanded. And Adam was standing right there with her when she did it.

I have a hard time believing that. I can't imagine any man standing by as some other beguiles his wife. Plus, if Adam were present we'd have to say the serpent deceived them both rather than Eve was deceived and Adam sinned because of Eve.

Genesis 3
1Now the serpent was more subtile than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

So There was a field and a garden. The serpent was from the field and snuck into the garden. Adams job was to 'keep' (gaurd) the garden safe.

There's a couple different ways to view this and your statement confuses them both.

First, if you take the serpent, as in the beast of the field (later to be the snake), it was not evil. Adam shouldn't have had to guard from it. God made all the beast of the field and it was all good, for "God saw that it was good"

However, if you take the serpent as in Satan. He probably had free reign once he rebelled against God's authority. Still, Adam and Eve should have steared clear of such an influence, and would have had they kept God's instruction.

I am limitted in time now, and would have to organize my thoughts to delve any deeper into this but maybe it's enough for further comentating by others for now.

[jasonlevene]

Scripture doesn't teach that Jesus had a sin nature, so I'm leary of describing Him as such.

I must respectfully disagree with you on this. The bible does teach that Jesus had a sin nature and that he defeated it by submitting himself to the excruciating pain and suffering of the cross.

Consider this:

• Eve sinned because she succumbed to the worldly and corrupt sin nature [Genesis 3:6; 1 John 2:16]. Satan's lie provoked Eve into desiring that tree of knowledge fruit because she wanted to be her own god with her own rules in defiance of God's laws and God's rules. This is the jealousy greed and corruption of the sin nature and it was inherent in Adam and Eve from creation.

• Believe it or not, when Jesus asked God the Father in Gethsemane to take the cup of wrath away from him, this was his very own sinful nature talking because if God the Father had granted that request, then the word of YHWH [the OT] would be lies. You see if the ancient Scriptures requred Jesus to suffer and die on that cross and he was somehow spared of the cross, how could we ever believe anything God ever said again. Jesus asked this of God the Father because he didn't want to endure the pain and suffering of the cross and he wanted the Father to get him out of it. But there was no having that which was why Jesus concluded that God's will be what it is: that he suffer and die on the cross. Every drop of blood thus that poured when Jesus was scourged, crowned with thorns and crucified was testimony against his own sin nature and his death sealed the deal in its defeat.

The sin nature thus is not the curse of death that renders man sinful. Succumbing to the sin nature renders man sinful and Jesus never allowed this.

[Kahtar]

I have a hard time believing that. I can't imagine any man standing by as some other beguiles his wife. Plus, if Adam were present we'd have to say the serpent deceived them both rather than Eve was deceived and Adam sinned because of Eve.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasing to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make wise, she took of its fruit, and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

H5973 eem From H6004; adverb or preposition, with (that is, in conjunction with), in varied applications; specifically equally with; often with prepositional prefix (and then usually unrepresented in English): - accompanying, against, and, as (X long as), before, beside, by (reason of), for all, from (among, between), in, like, more than, of, (un-) to, with (-al).

Seems fairly clear to me. Not too difficult to believe if it's in the Word.

[Kahtar]

I must respectfully disagree with you on this. The bible does teach that Jesus had a sin nature and that he defeated it by submitting himself to the excruciating pain and suffering of the cross.

Consider this:

• Eve sinned because she succumbed to the worldly and corrupt sin nature [Genesis 3:6; 1 John 2:16]. Satan's lie provoked Eve into desiring that tree of knowledge fruit because she wanted to be her own god with her own rules in defiance of God's laws and God's rules. This is the jealousy greed and corruption of the sin nature and it was inherent in Adam and Eve from creation.

So you are trying to convince us that God created man with sinful nature? I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that.

• Believe it or not, when Jesus asked God the Father in Gethsemane to take the cup of wrath away from him, this was his very own sinful nature talking because if God the Father had granted that request, then the word of YHWH [the OT] would be lies. You see if the ancient Scriptures requred Jesus to suffer and die on that cross and he was somehow spared of the cross, how could we ever believe anything God ever said again. Jesus asked this of God the Father because he didn't want to endure the pain and suffering of the cross and he wanted the Father to get him out of it. But there was no having that which was why Jesus concluded that God's will be what it is: that he suffer and die on the cross. Every drop of blood thus that poured when Jesus was scourged, crowned with thorns and crucified was testimony against his own sin nature and his death sealed the deal in its defeat.

You indicated that the Bible teaches this 'sinful nature of Christ'. Perhaps you would like to share with us exactly where we can find that. The portion of scripture you are referring to does not tell us about sin nature.

The sin nature thus is not the curse of death that renders man sinful. Succumbing to the sin nature renders man sinful and Jesus never allowed this.

Seems to me like you are confusing man's free will with sin nature.

[jasonlevene]

So you are trying to convince us that God created man with sinful nature? I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that.

Did God create man with a sin nature? Well the answer to that question is the answer to the question of this thread. Why did Adam and Eve choose to sin? According to Genesis 3:3, it was only when Eve heard Satan's lie that the deadly poisonous tree of knowledge fruit became desirable. In other words, she wanted the divine good/evil knowledge of Satan's lie more than the truth and life of God's commandment. 1 John 2:16 summarizes what was going through Eve's mind and keep it mind that this was before the sin even took place.

You indicated that the Bible teaches this 'sinful nature of Christ'. Perhaps you would like to share with us exactly where we can find that. The portion of scripture you are referring to does not tell us about sin nature.

It's the Gethsemane account. I would think everybody knows where that is. It's Matthew 26:36-46. Think about it for a second. Let's suppose God the Father took the cross/cup away from Jesus. Do you realize there would be no salvation for us? Do you realize that the OT words of YHWH that prophesied Jesus' suffering on the cross would have been nullified? Taking the cup away from Jesus would have meant the literal end of all things. So why did he ask it? Simply because the sinful nature desires what is contrary to God's will and Jesus did not want to suffer the pain and agony of the cross. Jesus was asking for what was contrary to God's will: the will outlined in the OT-the Scriptures. But by forcing himself to endure it, he defeated the sinful nature. This is why Jesus is called obedient [Phil. 2:6-11]: he rejected the sin nature's desires by suffering on the cross and he raised himself in immortality as the result.

Let me know what you think. God bless.

[ChristopherE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherE
I have a hard time believing that. I can't imagine any man standing by as some other beguiles his wife. Plus, if Adam were present we'd have to say the serpent deceived them both rather than Eve was deceived and Adam sinned because of Eve.



Quote:
Originally Posted by God in His Word
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasing to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make wise, she took of its fruit, and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong's Concordance
H5973 eem From H6004; adverb or preposition, with (that is, in conjunction with), in varied applications; specifically equally with; often with prepositional prefix (and then usually unrepresented in English): - accompanying, against, and, as (X long as), before, beside, by (reason of), for all, from (among, between), in, like, more than, of, (un-) to, with (-al).


Seems fairly clear to me. Not too difficult to believe if it's in the Word.

That can just as easily be that at a later time she had Adam with her and they ate together. However, if we are to assume that Adam was there at the time Satan was deceiving Eve, then we have to conclude that Satan deceived them both.

[qbee]

Well that could be true..
Adam allowed evil to enter into the garden and then Eve was
then tempted by evil to disobey God then she tempted Adam...

So the fault (original sin) lies with Adam for not keeping Gods
Garden from evil.. Sin would not have entered the garden if Adam
had not allowed the serpant (evil) to enter in.

He may not have known that the serpent was evil or was satan.
But he could have been tempted first by satan to let him in..
He was beautifull Adam may had admired this beautifull snake.
and let it in from the field..

so by not obeying God he still allowed evil (something outside of Gods will)
to enter in and to tempt them to disobey. Without evil present man may not
have ever had the desire to disobey.. Meaning if they would have stayed
inside of Gods will (obeyed) ... Evil would have never entered to temp them
to sin. It could not enter unless Adam allow it to... and so God now teaches
Adam and Eve (mankind) what it is like to live amongst evil and that it is
impossible for mankind to overcome this evil (if we are outside of God will) Hard lesson....


If Gods children come back into his will by following the example of Jesus
with the help of His Holy Spirit to overcome our sinfull nature. Satan will
have no power in tempting us. God will finally destroy satan (evil) and man
will no longer have have a sinfull nature because evil will be destroyed.
and there will be no more temptation or desire to sin..
( we will be greatfull to be inside of Gods will once again)

I believe the flesh of Jesus may have had a sinfull nature.
Because it is said he overcame sin.. so to that means he
had the ability to sin.. But he always remained inside of Gods will..
He was tempted just like the first Adam was but he rebuked satan
(evil) and refused to sucumb to his temptations.

The only sin to come upon Jesus were our own sins not his..
That is why he was so overcome with grief in the garden he was bearing
all our sins upon him.. and contemplating the terrible deathe he was to suffer.
It was unbearable for him and he did cry out to God for merci and to take this
cup if at all possible.. But that wasnt a sin.. (asking God for merci is not sinfull)
He mearly was asking God if there was any other way because it was so painfull
and unbearable... But non-the less he said I will stay inside your will father
and obey whatever you have asked of me. He didnt didnt disobey or sin EVER.
Even though he was tempted by satan and had burdens of the flesh, pain
hunger, sorrow suffering... He always stayed inside of Gods will.

[ChristopherE]

Hold up a minute.

Adam was not charged with protecting the garden from evil. He could not have been. They had no knowledge of good and evil. He can't protect against something he knows not of.They were both simply charged with not eating of the tree. Something Eve was seduced into doing and later Adam chose to do because of Eve.

[qbee]

Hold up a minute.

Adam was not charged with protecting the garden from evil. He could not have been. They had no knowledge of good and evil. He can't protect against something he knows not of.They were both simply charged with not eating of the tree. Something Eve was seduced into doing and later Adam chose to do because of Eve.

Ooops You are right..Christopher
He wasnt told to protect the garden from evil.
He was charged to keep the garden period.. What I meant is he allowed the
serpent in... Not knowing it was evil.. But he still shouldnt have done that.
because he was charged to keep the garden.

This was not charged to Adam as sin.. Eating the fruit was.
But sin entered.. because of one man...


Non the less evil entered the garden in the form of a serpent..

Because of evil they went outside of Gods will and ate the fruit.
Because of thier disobedience they now had a sinfull nature because
they followed satans will (evil) instead of God will. They also now
knew the difference and were ashamed..



I believe Adam and Eve would not have sinned had they not been tempted to
sin.. They didnt know the difference between goodness and evil... All they
knew is that God told them not to eat or they would die. They didnt know
anything different outside of Gods will, untill satan lied to them. God allowed
evil in so he could teach A&E (mankind) the difference. So that they will
eventually be satisfied and trust to obey him and live in his will. Knowing
that is the best and safest place to be.. Anything else is brings suffereing
and death.


The reason we still sin knowing this is that we have been completly corrupted
and have inherited this sinfull nature through the ages. Sin upon sin upon sin.
We dont know how not to sin.. That is where Jesus comes in and he is how

we will be restored and recinsiled back into Gods will...

Evil (satan) will have served its purpose and be destroyed..

We will receive new uncorrupted bodies without a sinfull nature.
I would assume we will also be completly content in living in his will.

so am I way off here...

[ChristopherE]

so am I way off here...

I agree entirely with 50% of your post there. The Latter 50%, for the record.

Adam and Eve would not have sinned had Satan not entered in.

I don't know where this notion that Adam should somehow not have allowed the serpent into the garden comes from. I mean, I see "keep" and it could mean guard but where is he directed in what to guard against. Were certain animals not allowed in the garden? God created all beasts and "it was good", Also, God brought all animals to Adam in the garden to see what he would name them even looking for a companion for him. What was not good, as far as Adam was concerned, was already in the midst of the garden and he kept his instruction concerning this until Eve was seduced into breaking it. Maybe I'm missing something, I can't figure this out. It just seems like a 'let's give the woman a break and heap more blame onto the man' sort of thing. Not that he needs more blame. He chose Eve over God.

What I meant is he allowed the
serpent in... Not knowing it was evil..

I want to expand on this a little. I believe the serpent was just an animal not inherently evil. In fact, God saw that all the beasts he created was good. We also know that it was Satan that deceived Eve. I will submit that Satan possessed the serpent to do his will, or at least whispered in his ear while he still had one. The serpent was judged for doing Satan's will and transformed into the snake. And Satan went on his merry way (held over for trial)

--------------------

I did find more reason why the "and Adam was right there" wasn't sitting well with me. It's First Timothy 2:14

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

It would seem to me that if Adam was in the presence of the deception, allowing it to occur, he would then be a party to that deception and/or deceived himself. He would then also be guilty of not "keeping" the garden. However, God's judgement against Adam was for 'listening to his wife and disobeying God in the act of eating of the tree', not failing to keep the garden and not being deceived

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong about this, I'd love to see more evidence to the contrary.

Incidently, are we adhering to a literal interpretation of the trees of knowledge and life for the purpose of this debate. Or would branching into metaphorical meanings be profitable?

[Kahtar]

Did God create man with a sin nature? Well the answer to that question is the answer to the question of this thread. Why did Adam and Eve choose to sin? According to Genesis 3:3, it was only when Eve heard Satan's lie that the deadly poisonous tree of knowledge fruit became desirable. In other words, she wanted the divine good/evil knowledge of Satan's lie more than the truth and life of God's commandment. 1 John 2:16 summarizes what was going through Eve's mind and keep it mind that this was before the sin even took place.

What you have described here is nothing more that the God-given freewill in action. God did not create man with a sinful nature. The verse you quoted above shows that.

1John 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

It's the Gethsemane account. I would think everybody knows where that is. It's Matthew 26:36-46.

I'll say again, this portion of scripture does not say that Jesus had a sin nature. That is purely conjecture on your part. You have not yet given any scripture to back up your statement.

Think about it for a second. Let's suppose God the Father took the cross/cup away from Jesus. Do you realize there would be no salvation for us? Do you realize that the OT words of YHWH that prophesied Jesus' suffering on the cross would have been nullified? Taking the cup away from Jesus would have meant the literal end of all things.

No disagreement here.

So why did he ask it? Simply because the sinful nature desires what is contrary to God's will and Jesus did not want to suffer the pain and agony of the cross. Jesus was asking for what was contrary to God's will: the will outlined in the OT-the Scriptures. But by forcing himself to endure it, he defeated the sinful nature.

He asked it because he was fully man, and as a man, did not desire the suffering he knew was to come. But because he did NOT have a sin nature, he chose God's will over his own.

Matthew 26:36-39 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.
37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].

Again, there is nothing in here that says he had a sin nature. It is your own opinion that he did, and (so far) not supported Biblically.

This is why Jesus is called obedient [Phil. 2:6-11]: he rejected the sin nature's desires

He rejected the natural human aversion to suffering.
This is what I think. God bless...

[Kahtar]

That can just as easily be that at a later time she had Adam with her and they ate together. However, if we are to assume that Adam was there at the time Satan was deceiving Eve, then we have to conclude that Satan deceived them both.

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

It seems faily clear to me that it is describing one single event, rather than two separate events. Nevertheless, satan did in fact deceive them both, but he did it through the woman (I am NOT woman-bashing here). Satan understood the whole right-brain/left-brain thing and new that he could not get to Adam directly, but that he could get to Eve directly, and through her to Adam.