Purgatory?

[the inside out]

What is the biblical basis for purgatory?

[Prodigal Daughter]

I was always told that it was a place where souls in limbo go. They werent bad enough for hell, nor good enough for heaven. THey would have to stay there until judgement day. This is just what Ive been told. Dont take heed to it unless someone else agrees with me.

[FaithfulSheep]

Good question. Here are the results of my search.

No results were found for purgatory in the version(s):King James Version. Try refining your search using the form above.


No results were found for purgatory in the version(s):New American Standard Bible.

Therefore, I will be bold and say.... There is no Biblical basis.

[Quickened]

Its not at all biblical.

[sheina maidle]

Way of Life Encyclopedia
PURGATORY

(to purge; to cleanse). According to Roman Catholic theology, purgatory is a place or state where Christians go after death to suffer for sins not cleansed during their earthly existence. After an unspecified time of purgation, the soul is thought to go to Heaven. It is said to be a place of suffering. Until recent years, purgatory was described as a place of fiery pain, but many Catholic priests today teach that the fires of purgatory as taught in former days might be symbolic. Masses are said for the dead in the belief that rituals and prayers can help speed the soul's escape from purgatory. Even popes are not thought to be exempt from purgatory. When Pope Paul died, special masses were performed all over the world to help him out of purgatory

"The doctrine of purgatory clearly demonstrates that even when the guilt of sin has been taken away, punishment for it or the consequences of it may remain to be expiated or cleansed. They often are. In fact, in Purgatory, the souls of those who died in the charity of God and truly repentant, but who have not made satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions, are cleansed after death with punishment designed to purge away their debt" (Vatican Council II, p. 75).

"The Church teaches us that after death the soul still has to suffer purification (that is the meaning of the word purgatory) before it is able to see God. It will certainly be a painful purification; that is why it is represented by the image of a `fire'" (The Theologians Answer Your Questions, 1970, pp. 138-139).

"This doctrine of purgatory, reflected in Scripture and developed in Tradition, was clearly expressed in the Second Council of Lyons (A.D. 1274). ... Besides declaring the fact of purgatory, the Second Council of Lyons also affirmed that `the faithful on earth can be of great help' to persons undergoing purgatory by offering for them `the sacrifice of the Mass, prayers, almsgiving, and other religious deeds'" (Handbook for Today's Catholic, p. 36).

The Roman Catholic Church has no scriptural authority for the teaching of Purgatory. A key "authority" cited by the Catholic Church for purgatory is a quote from one of the apocryphal books, II Maccabees. The Apocrypha are included in the Catholic Bible but rejected by Bible-believing Christians. According to the Catholic church, the Apocrypha and their own tradition are equally authoritative with the Scriptures, but this is impossible in that the Apocrypha and Catholic tradition contains many teachings contrary to the Bible. It is the Bible alone which is the authoritative Word of God, and when a religious doctrine such as purgatory contradicts the plain teaching of the Scriptures, we reject it.

Purgatory is NOT biblical--it is not taught in the Bible.

[Frances]

What is the biblical basis for purgatory?

None that I've ever seen.

[Doxology]

You won't get any information about Catholic beliefs coming to a Protestant message board

[Quickened]

You won't get any information about Catholic beliefs coming to a Protestant message board

Regardless of the denomination of any posters on this board we stick to the

"If its not in scripture then its not biblical" method.

[Doxology]

Regardless of the denomination of any posters on this board we stick to the

"If its not in scripture then its not biblical" method.

Catholics have more books, so what may not be in your Bible, may be in theirs.

(as a side note, I'm not Catholic. )

[Joseph Antley]

Good question. Here are the results of my search.




Therefore, I will be bold and say.... There is no Biblical basis.

Hmm. A search for "Trinity" also came up with no results. According to your logic, it must also have no biblical basis!

How can you be teaching such heresy as no Trinity?

[Quickened]

Hmm. A search for "Trinity" also came up with no results. According to your logic, it must also have no biblical basis!

How can you be teaching such heresy as no Trinity?

But throughout the bible we see that God exsists in three persons. No where do we see purgatory. Its either heaven or hell. You think if there was another option that perhaps Christ would have Himself mentioned it. Considering He preached more about Hell then heaven.

Puragtory is showing that basically that Christs work wasnt enough to get you into heaven and that you yourself need to be punished for a time before you can get there. But in actuality if that were the case we wouldnt need Christ in the first place and we could all just go to purgatory for whatever duration of time and then go to heaven.

Christ's Work on the cross made it possible that we were saved from an eternal damnation of hell which he rightfully deserved by being sinners.

Whats next? Are indulgences ok too even though they are not in the bible's scriptures. Although they are mentioned in the beginning of the Catholic bible.

[FaithfulSheep]

Hmm. A search for "Trinity" also came up with no results. According to your logic, it must also have no biblical basis!

How can you be teaching such heresy as no Trinity?

Whoa! Let's just stop right there. I never said anything about there not being a Trinity. We are talking about purgatory, for which there is no Biblical basis, not the Trinity, for which there is.

I am very saddened that you think you can know what I do or do not believe in and am both offended and angered that you would be so bold as to say I do not believe in the Trinity, when I do and as well am offended that you are calling me a heretic.

Genesis 1:26 says Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Clearly, that is in reference to the Trinity.

I searched about purgatory using other keywords and phrases, I just didn't list them all in the post. Honestly, I didn't know I needed to list every one that I searched, I was making my point. I was getting ready for church as I was searching and didn't have time to list everything I searched under.

No need to get personal with me.

I understand your point, but your comment on what I must think about the Trinity was quite uncalled for.

[Joseph Antley]

Sorry, I said that tongue-in-cheek.

But I hope you see my point. The word "purgatory" isn't used in the Bible (just as the word "trinity" isn't used in the Bible), but just as you find scriptural basis for the Trinity, so do Catholics find scriptural basis for purgatory.

If you sincerely won't to know what scriptural justification Catholics use for purgatory, I would suggest googling it and looking on a pro-Catholic website.

[RSiscoe]

Hmm. A search for "Trinity" also came up with no results. According to your logic, it must also have no biblical basis!

How can you be teaching such heresy as no Trinity?

Joseph,

I was just about to say the same thing.

As Doxology pointed out, Catholics and Protestants have two different Bibles. Catholics use the Bible that Christians have always used, while modern day Protestants use a Bible that excludes 7 books from the Old Testament.

The original King James Version of 1611 did indeed include all 73 books of the Bible. The seven disputed books were only removed from the year 1629 forward.

Collier's Encyclopedia: "The books termed Apocryphal by Protestants and deuterocanonical by Catholics... were included in the King James Version of 1611, but they are usually omitted in the English Revised Version and the American Revised Version. The Puritans disapproved of them because they did not form part of the original Hebrew text. The Septuagint, however, which was the Greek version of the Jewish Bible, did contain these books, and from the Septuagint, they found their way into the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome" (Collier's Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, Pg 348).

Every canon of scripture from the early years of the Church includes the seven disputed books.

Now, one of the Old Testament books dropped from the later printings of the King James Version was the Book of Machabees. Coincidentally (or not), the Book of Machabees supports the doctrine of purgatory.

In this book, which was contained in every Christian Bible up to the 16th century, we find a story of a soldier whose troops had been killed in a battle. The soldier then sent money to Jerusalem to purchase sacrifices for his dead soldiers. "In making a gathering, he sent 12,000 drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead..." (2 Mach. 12:43). After relating this story, we are told that "it is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins" (2 Mach. 12:46).

That clearly supports the doctrine of purgatory by showing that there is a place where some go, after death, to be purified prior to entering heaven.

Purgatory is the place of final purification. The Bible tells us "nothing impure will enter the kingdom of Heaven". The purpose of purgatory is to purge, or purify, our souls so that we will be ready to stand in the presence of God. Purgatory is not a 'second chance', but it is rather the final phase of our sanctification, if it has not been completed on earth.

Ideally we will overcome our imperfections and make temporal reparation for our sins while on earth so that we will not have to go through purgatory. If we have not, yet die with God's grace within us, we will be purged in purgatory where, as Jesus says, we will "not come out thence, until we have paid the uttermost farthing" (Mt 5:26).

But, some may ask, "If Jesus died for my sins, and my sins have been forgiven, why do I have to make reparation them?" Because there are temporal consequences to sin - even if those sins have been forgiven. There is also a corresponding temporal punishment due to sin.

Our Lord overcame sin and thus opened the gates of heaven, but he did not put an end to suffering which is the consequence of sin. And even if our sins have been forgiven, there has been temporal damage done which must be atoned for. We can atone for the temporal damage caused by our sins in several ways, one of which is by doing good. This is what is sometimes referred to as "covering" our sins.

The eternal punishment for sin is not forgiven by doing good; but temporal punishment is lessened or totally 'erased' by what we do in reparation for our sins.

We have a very explicit reference to this in the book of James where we read: [i]"My brethren, if any of you err from the truth, and one convert him: He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins" (James 5:20).

Above the passage clearly tells us that converting a soul from the error of his ways is one way of atoning for, or "covering", sins.

Now obviously doing good - even the good of converting someone - is not enough to get us to heaven, or even enough to have the eternal guilt of one sin forgiven; however, it is a means of supplying for the temporal guilt of our sins, and thus "covering" them over.

We have similar statement in 1st Peter where we are told that: "Charity covereth a multitude of sins". (1st Peter 4:8). In this quote, Peter is quoting from the Old Testament book of Proverbs 11:31, and is carrying the same principal forward to the New Testament. I point this out to show that the need to atone for temporal punishment - as shown in 2 Mach. 12:46 of the Old Testament - is still necessary.

Another good example is found in the Old Testament book of Daniel (4:24), which says to "redeem thou thy sins with alms". Now obviously giving money will not have our eternal guilt washed away, but it is a means of atoning for our temporal punishment.

It is really a matter of common sense that we must atone for our sins - even the eternal guilt has been forgiven. Lets say that someone stole some money from work. After several weeks their conscience began to bother them, and they went to their boss to confess the sin. If the boss was merciful he would forgive them, however, he would also expect them to return the money, or at least find some other way to make up for what they had done. And if the person was really sorry, they would want to make reparation in order to repair the damage caused by their sin.

It is the same in the spiritual order. Although our sins may be forgiven, there has been damage caused which must be atoned for.

Let's take another example. This example was used by the lae Fulton J Sheen who explained it this way: Lets say you had a board with nails hammered into it (the nails representing sins). Now, if Jesus forgave you your sins, the nails would immediately be removed, however the board would still have the indentions where the nails were. Reparation is the process by which we fixed the damaged caused by our sins. In God's great mercy, he gives us a place to make that reparation if we have not done so by the end of our lives. We call that place purgatory.

In Matthew 12:32, Jesus said: "He that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come" (Mt 12:32), thereby showing that some sins can be forgiven "in the world to come".

St. Augustine wrote: "For our part, we recognize that even in this life some punishments are purgatorial,--not, indeed, to those whose life is none the better, but rather the worse for them, but to those who are constrained by them to amend their life. All other punishments, whether temporal or eternal, inflicted as they are on every one by divine providence, are sent either on account of past sins, or of sins presently allowed in the life, or to exercise and reveal a man's graces... But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment.of the world to come." (City of God,21:13(A.D. 426)

Purgatory has been believed in since the days of the Old Testament, as is seen by the quote from 1st Machabees. Even today Orthodox Jew pray a prayer called the mourner's kaddish for their departed loved ones for 12 months after they die.

The belief in a place of final purification has been believed, not only by the Jews of the Old Testament, but by Christians since the beginning of the Church age. And although the word purgatory is not found in the Bible, there are certainly passages that allude to it.

In the following quote, St. Augustine refers to the practice of praying for those who have died and tells us that the practice has been "handed down by the Fathers":

St. Augustine: "For the whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice (Mass) itself; in the sacrifices offered also in memory of them on their behalf (St. Augustine - Sermons 172,2, circa 400AD).

If you read the writings of the early Church you will see them continually speak of praying for the dead. Those who are heaven have no need of prayers, and those in hell will not benefit from them. Therefore, the practice of praying for the faithful departed is a confirmation of a belief in a place of purgation after death.

"Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them." (John Chrysostom 41:5, 392 AD)

Tertullian: "We offer sacrifices [the Mass] for the dead on their birthday and anniversaries." (Tertullian, The Crowning 3:3, 211AD)

The following are a few New Testament passages that refer to purgatory, and the interpretation of these verses given by the Church Fathers:

Matthew: 5:25-26. "Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing."

Tertullian: "[T]hat allegory of the Lord which is extremely clear and simple in its meaning, and ought to be from the first understood in its plain and natural sense...Then, again, should you be disposed to apply the term 'adversary' to the devil. You are advised by the (Lord's) injunction, while you are in the way with him, to make even with him such a compact as may be deemed compatible with the requirements of your true faith. Now the compact you have made respecting him is to renounce him, and his pomp, and his angels. Such is your agreement in this matter. Now the friendly understanding you will have to carry out must arise from your observance of the compact: you must never think of getting back any of the things which you have abjured, and have restored to him, lest he should summon you as a fraudulent man, and a transgressor of your agreement, before God the Judge (for in this light do we read of him, in another passage, as 'the accuser of the brethren,' or saints, where reference is made to the actual practice of legal prosecution); and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell [i.e. purgatory], out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection. What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation?" (Tertullian,A Treatise on the Soul,35(A.D. 210),in ANF,III:216)

Tertullian: "All souls, therefore; are shut up within Hades: do you admit this? (It is true, whether) you say yes or no: moreover, there are already experienced there punishments and consolations; and there you have a poor man and a rich...Moreover, the soul executes not all its operations with the ministration of the flesh; for the judgment of God pursues even simple cogitations and the merest volitions. 'Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.' Therefore, even for this cause it is most fitting that the soul, without at all waiting for the flesh, should be punished for what it has done without the partnership of the flesh. So, on the same principle, in return for the pious and kindly thoughts in which it shared not the help of the flesh, shall it without the flesh receive its consolation. In short, inasmuch as we understand 'the prison' pointed out in the Gospel to be Hades, and as we also interpret 'the uttermost farthing' to mean the very smallest offence which has to be recompensed there before the resurrection, no one will hesitate to believe that the soul undergoes in Hades some compensatory discipline, without prejudice to the full process of the resurrection." (ibid. III:234-235)

1 Corinthians 3:13-15: "The fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." (1 Cor 3.13-15)

Origen: "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones(1 Cor.,3); but also wood and hay and stubble,what do you expect when the soul shall be seperated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones; Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials;for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature,but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble.It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our trangressions and then returns to us the rewardof our great works."
Origen,Homilies on Jeremias,PG 13:445,448(A.D. 244),in CE,577

Lactantius,The Divine Institutes,7:21: "The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment: which the poets transferred to the vulture of Tityus. Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when He shall have judged the righteous, He will also try them with fire. Then they whose sins shall exceed either in weight or in number, shall be scorched by the fire and burnt:" (A.D. 307),in ANF,VII:217)

St. Augustine: "If the baptized person fufils the obligations demanded of a Christian, he does well. If he does not--provided he keeps the faith,without which he would perish forever--no matter in what sin or impurity remains, he will be saved, as it were, by fire; as one who has built on the foundation, which is Christ, not Gold, silver, and precious stones, but wood, hay straw, that is, not just and chasted works but wicked and unchaste works." (Faith and Works,1:1, A.D. 413)

St. Gregory: "Each one will be presented to the Judge exactly as he was when he departed this life. Yet, there must be a cleansing fire before judgement, because of some minor faults that may remain to be purged away. Does not Christ,the Truth,say that if anyone blasphemes against the Holy Spirit he shall not be forgiven 'either in this world or in the world to come'(Mt. 12:32)? From this statement we learn that some sins can be forgiven in this world and some in the world to come. For, if forgiveness is refused for a particular sin, we conclude logically that it is granted for others. This must apply, as I said, to slight transgressions." (Dialogues,4:39)

Here are a few additional quotes from the Church Fathers:

Gregory of Nyssa: "When he has quitted his body and the difference between virtue and vice is known he cannot approach God till the purging fire shall have cleansed the stains with which his soul was infested. That same fire in others will cancel the corruption of matter, and the propensity to evil."
(Sermon on the Dead,PG 13:445,448, A.D. 394.

St. Augustine: "...some believers shall pass through a kind of purgatorial fire, and in proportion as they have loved with more or less devotion the goods that perish, be less or more quickly delivered from it. This cannot, however, be the case of any of those of whom it is said, that they 'shall not inherit the kingdom of God,' " (Enchiridion,69, A.D. 421)

In conclusion, a place of final purification has been believed in since the days of the Old Testament. The early Christains all believed in it, and wrote about it. The questions is, when did the denial of purgatory begin?

[sheina maidle]

1 Cor. 3:13-15 does not teach the doctrine of Purgatory. What it does teach is that the "works of the saved" will be tried--not their sins. Sin has already been judged at the cross. The saved are NOT PURGED in a place called Purgatory, they have been washed in the blood of Christ. That is not a biblical doctrine and to pull Scriptures out of context to make Purgatory a doctrine is adding to what the Scripture already says. Read Rev. 22:18-19.