Joyce Meyer

[Faithwalker]

Amen Navaros!

Eze 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned, and the sword come, and take any person from among them; he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.


Act 20:26 I therefore declare to you today that I am not responsible for the blood of any of you, for I never shrank from telling you the whole plan of God. Pay attention to yourselves and to the entire flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to be shepherds of God's church, which he acquired with his own blood. I know that when I'm gone savage wolves will come among you and not spare the flock. Indeed, some of your own men will come forward and distort the truth in order to lure the disciples into following them. So be alert! Remember that for three years, night and day, I never stopped warning each of you with tears.

[Studyin'2Show]

And so it goes! The verse about the watchman tells US to to watch and be aware. Not to go on talking about one another. I absolutely agree that we must test all things and on hold on to what is good. The only thing I don't agree with is gossiping.

Proverbs 17:9 - He who covers a transgression seeks love, But he who repeats a matter separates friends.

Proverbs 10:12 - Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins.

Listen to how I would say something mentioned in this thread against Joyce with which I somewhat agree. I'd say something like - The word 'amen' translated means 'so be it'. When you say 'amen' you are in essence agreeing with what was said before. Be very careful when people ask for an 'amen' that you are not saying it to something you don't agree with. Many times people will say "Amen?" as if seeking you to say it as well. Be cautious because words are extremely important. See no one has been bashed yet the point has been made about something that many preachers do.

The watchman must indeed watch and warn, but remember, the Bible does not contradict itself. If you feel Joyce's doctrine is false then speak against the DOCTRINE. I would never have even gotten into the discussion if there had been no name on it. God would not tell us not to gossip and then tell us it's ok to talk about PEOPLE! When Paul spoke of a person by name it was to exhort them that they be corrected with love, like Peter and John Mark. It was always the doctrine and false teaching he spoke harshly about telling people to beware. Talk about the doctrine you either agree or disagree with. Warn the flock about the doctrines with which to beware, sure! It is about our own personal walk with Messiah. This, however, is a very PUBLIC place. As I've said before, nothing about a person bash thread ever feels right to me. Ever! That's my two cents!

P.S. BTW, Joyce does not actually have a congregation. She is not a pastor. She and her husband attend a particular chuch in St Louis, I think when they are in town and sometimes she will preach there but she is not the pastor. Just thought I'd clear that up.

[ikester7579]

Would this qualify?:

Mt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.


Lu 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Lu 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Lu 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.


All you have to do, is worship Satan - to have this world as your oyster.

Having the world is not a blessing. And did Satan say: In God the Father's name I give these things to you? He cannot bless someone in God the Father's name.

Satan is what? The Father of lies. So was he lying when he told Jesus this?

The kingdoms he promised Jesus were the kingdoms that were given to him upon being cast out of heaven. To give them to Jesus, he would be giving up his position as being the prince of them (prince of the air). Someone who wants to take the throne of God, is now going to give up his own throne and position? The lie reveals itself in two ways here.

1) "Worship me" means he does not intend to dethrone himself.
2) To give his own kingdoms to Jesus, he would not be worthy to worship. Because he would become like any other demon.

And to prove this even further:

mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

So to give all that he owns to Christ (his kingdoms), how does Satan maintain his position in those kingdoms? He maintains it because he never intended to give them away.

So when Joyce leads someone in the sinner's prayer to Christ, in Jesus name. Is she, or is she not doing the work of Satan?

No one has answered that question yet.

Remember, you can only be for or against God, there is no other way. And against means only one thing. So which is it? Because if people are going to imply that Joyce is against God, why not go the rest of the way and commit to what is actually being implied?

Anyone?

[divaD]

Having the world is not a blessing. And did Satan say: In God the Father's name I give these things to you? He cannot bless someone in God the Father's name.

Satan is what? The Father of lies. So was he lying when he told Jesus this?

The kingdoms he promised Jesus were the kingdoms that were given to him upon being cast out of heaven. To give them to Jesus, he would be giving up his position as being the prince of them (prince of the air). Someone who wants to take the throne of God, is now going to give up his own throne and position? The lie reveals itself in two ways here.

1) "Worship me" means he does not intend to dethrone himself.
2) To give his own kingdoms to Jesus, he would not be worthy to worship. Because he would become like any other demon.

And to prove this even further:

mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

So to give all that he owns to Christ (his kingdoms), how does Satan maintain his position in those kingdoms? He maintains it because he never intended to give them away.

So when Joyce leads someone in the sinner's prayer to Christ, in Jesus name. Is she, or is she not doing the work of Satan?

No one has answered that question yet.

Remember, you can only be for or against God, there is no other way. And against means only one thing. So which is it? Because if people are going to imply that Joyce is against God, why not go the rest of the way and commit to what is actually being implied?

Anyone?

Please don't take this as anything personally against Joyce Meyer, but who do you think all the warnings that are seen in the NT are implying towards? Athiests? Non-believers?
We're warned of wolves in sheep's clothing. We're warned of false prophets and teachers. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-22:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 *Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Was he talking about athiests and non-believers?
As we can see, these warnings are to make us aware of some of those that profess to know God.

[Faithwalker]

And so it goes! The verse about the watchman tells US to to watch and be aware. Not to go on talking about one another. I absolutely agree that we must test all things and on hold on to what is good. The only thing I don't agree with is gossiping.

The watchman must indeed watch and warn, but remember, the Bible does not contradict itself. If you feel Joyce's doctrine is false then speak against the DOCTRINE. I would never have even gotten into the discussion if there had been no name on it. God would not tell us not to gossip and then tell us it's ok to talk about PEOPLE! When Paul spoke of a person by name it was to exhort them that they be corrected with love, like Peter and John Mark. It was always the doctrine and false teaching he spoke harshly about telling people to beware. Talk about the doctrine you either agree or disagree with. Warn the flock about the doctrines with which to beware, sure! It is about our own personal walk with Messiah. This, however, is a very PUBLIC place. As I've said before, nothing about a person bash thread ever feels right to me. Ever! That's my two cents!

Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

Just thought I would clear up the idea its not alright to name names of those teaching false doctrines. Sounds to me like some people are being talked about there, not just their 'doctrine.'

[ikester7579]

Please don't take this as anything personally against Joyce Meyer, but who do you think all the warnings that are seen in the NT are implying towards? Athiests? Non-believers?
We're warned of wolves in sheep's clothing. We're warned of false prophets and teachers. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-22:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 *Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Was he talking about athiests and non-believers?
As we can see, these warnings are to make us aware of some of those that profess to know God.

If God be the only being that has absolute truth, then what does that make the rest of us? So who is worthy to stand behind the pulpit if we are all liars because we do not have complete absolute truth? If God requires perfection in this, then no body is. But that's not how it is done now is it?

So how are imperfect beings supposed to some how know perfect judgement enough to know how to judge people on spiritual things such as preaching? For the judgement unto itself becomes imperfect because we do not have the knowledge of God on these issues. So to what knowledge do we judge? It's not knowledge, but our own opinions which is a form of gossip.

People judge other people from the outside, and how does God judge? From within, correct? This is why we are supposed to look for God's approval through blessings and gifts of power. For even Christ said:

mk 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

Does Christ lie? So if Joyce prays for someone in Christ's name, and they become healed. the power to heal comes through Christ. And Joyce cannot even lightly speak evil of christ and do these things, or did Christ lie about this? Let's do this a different way.

Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

So let us apply this to the one who we judge on this thread.

And I came to Christ saying: Master I saw Joyce casting out devils in thy name, and she does not believe like we do, so we forbad her because she does not follow our doctrine completely.

But Jesus said: Forbid her not: For there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

For he that is not against us is for us.

Now some might say that those verses only refer to the male gender so it does not apply to Joyce. But you would be wrong.

1) Woman was made from the man's flesh.
2) God considers man and woman one flesh when married.

This is even more confirmed in the book of Job. When Satan ask to do more to Job, and God laid out the rules and said that Satan could not kill Job. But yet Satan killed his whole family except his wife. Now why was the wife spared when the wife was not even mentioned as one that Satan could not touch? Here again it is because they are one flesh in marraige so the rule that applied to Job, also applied to his wife. So when God said that Satan could not kill Job, it also applied to his wife, and Satan knew this.

So if marraige is mentioned, the the word man applies also to the woman because they are of one flesh.

[divaD]

If God be the only being that has absolute truth, then what does that make the rest of us? So who is worthy to stand behind the pulpit if we are all liars because we do not have complete absolute truth? If God requires perfection in this, then no body is. But that's not how it is done now is it?

So how are imperfect beings supposed to some how know perfect judgement enough to know how to judge people on spiritual things such as preaching? For the judgement unto itself becomes imperfect because we do not have the knowledge of God on these issues. So to what knowledge do we judge? It's not knowledge, but our own opinions which is a form of gossip.

People judge other people from the outside, and how does God judge? From within, correct? This is why we are supposed to look for God's approval through blessings and gifts of power. For even Christ said:

mk 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

Does Christ lie? So if Joyce prays for someone in Christ's name, and they become healed. the power to heal comes through Christ. And Joyce cannot even lightly speak evil of christ and do these things, or did Christ lie about this? Let's do this a different way.

Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

So let us apply this to the one who we judge on this thread.

And I came to Christ saying: Master I saw Joyce casting out devils in thy name, and she does not believe like we do, so we forbad her because she does not follow our doctrine completely.

But Jesus said: Forbid her not: For there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

For he that is not against us is for us.

Now some might say that those verses only refer to the male gender so it does not apply to Joyce. But you would be wrong.

1) Woman was made from the man's flesh.
2) God considers man and woman one flesh when married.

This is even more confirmed in the book of Job. When Satan ask to do more to Job, and God laid out the rules and said that Satan could not kill Job. But yet Satan killed his whole family except his wife. Now why was the wife spared when the wife was not even mentioned as one that Satan could not touch? Here again it is because they are one flesh in marraige so the rule that applied to Job, also applied to his wife. So when God said that Satan could not kill Job, it also applied to his wife, and Satan knew this.

So if marraige is mentioned, the the word man applies also to the woman because they are of one flesh.

My issue with Joyce Meyer is not because she is a woman and because she teaches. My issue is what she teaches. And that is the teaching that states Jesus went to Hell to be tormented because he deserved it.
She needs to publically denounce that teaching and repent of it. If she is not willing to do that, then she at least needs to provide scripture for this theory.

[Studyin'2Show]

Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

Just thought I would clear up the idea its not alright to name names of those teaching false doctrines. Sounds to me like some people are being talked about there, not just their 'doctrine.'

Just to clear things up, I didn't say or imply that it is wrong to name people who have done wrong. Look at these scriptures again. The first and the last DO NOT speak of someone's doctrine but of someone's actions, historically, toward the group that Luke writes of and toward Paul. It speaks of their actions toward the speaker. Has Joyce done any actions toward you to which you can fairly be a witness against her or are you referring to her doctrine? If someone assaults your neighbor or does something evil against them or even against you, by all means, name them! As for Peter, once again, Paul is talking about his actions against him and the non-Jewish believers; not his doctrine as a false teacher. Paul is exhorting Peter with love. Do you wish to exhort Joyce with love? By all means, do so. There are a few things I would tell her, in love, if I had the opportunity. We are not talking about things to exhort her in love, are we? Nor are we talking of some evil she has done to you which you must bear witness to. Come on, it's like apples and oranges! I believe we may agree on some levels with the premise, where we disagree is with the process.

God Bless!

[ikester7579]

My issue with Joyce Meyer is not because she is a woman and because she teaches. My issue is what she teaches. And that is the teaching that states Jesus went to Hell to be tormented because he deserved it.
She needs to publically denounce that teaching and repent of it. If she is not willing to do that, then she at least needs to provide scripture for this theory.

And for all we know, this just maybe the test God is taking her through. So who are we to judge what God is trying to fix? For if her ministry is being blessed by God, then God is with her. Which means she will have trials and tribulation. So while God is walking her through her test, what help are we as we stand by and condemn her? Are we helping God, or hendering God?

For can you prove through scripture:

1) That God will bless a ministry that He does not approve of?
2) And that miracles in His name can be peformed when God is not in it?

And then do we have the knowledge of God to see within the heart of Joyce?

For our judgement of Joyce to be Godly and just, we would have to have access to this same information that God has access to. Does anyone here have this ability? So to what end do we do this judgement when it is neither Godly or just based on how God would judge us?

When we get to heaven, how would we want God to judge us? From how we look upon the outside, or from what is within our hearts?

[Ramon]

Well where do you think Jesus went after he died. He said that he had not ascended to his Father on the resurrection day. In some versions of Isaiah 53 it says "the suffering of his soul" so this could mean that he did in fact go to Hades/Sheol.

Jesus also referred to the sign of Jonah. Jonah was in the depths of the earth and then was freed when the whale vomited him up. Does this mean that Jesus was also in the depths of the earth (Hell) and was "vomited" out with his resurrection?

[divaD]

[QUOTE=ikester7579;1214067]And for all we know, this just maybe the test God is taking her through. So who are we to judge what God is trying to fix? For if her ministry is being blessed by God, then God is with her. Which means she will have trials and tribulation. So while God is walking her through her test, what help are we as we stand by and condemn her? Are we helping God, or hendering God?

For can you prove through scripture:

1) That God will bless a ministry that He does not approve of?
2) And that miracles in His name can be peformed when God is not in it?



Why do you assume that if a ministry is successful, that it is blessed by God? Why not just say it for what it is? Some ministries are blessed by the people sending them money. This doesn't necessarily have to be of God.
Most of these prosperity teachers are just plain con artists, doing so in the name of God. This doesn't mean that Jesus knows them.
I see a lot of banners on tv and outside of huge churches, where the pastor/teacher's name is in larger letters than Jesus's name. Why is that? Do they think that their names are exalted above the name of Jesus?
I noticed in an earlier post in this thread, that it was stated that Joyce Meyer said she was living in her reward. Maybe that's the answer. She chooses to accept a reward that is temporary instead of waiting for rewards that are everlasting.

[divaD]

Well where do you think Jesus went after he died. He said that he had not ascended to his Father on the resurrection day. In some versions of Isaiah 53 it says "the suffering of his soul" so this could mean that he did in fact go to Hades/Sheol.

Jesus also referred to the sign of Jonah. Jonah was in the depths of the earth and then was freed when the whale vomited him up. Does this mean that Jesus was also in the depths of the earth (Hell) and was "vomited" out with his resurrection?

I don't think anyone is denying that Jesus descended into the heart of the earth. But there was a paradise side and a torment side. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in paradise today.

[Ramon]

I don't think anyone is denying that Jesus descended into the heart of the earth. But there was a paradise side and a torment side. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in paradise today.

true. hmmm that adds more to this discussion defiantly.

[Studyin'2Show]

I noticed in an earlier post in this thread, that it was stated that Joyce Meyer said she was living in her reward. Maybe that's the answer. She chooses to accept a reward that is temporary instead of waiting for rewards that are everlasting.

This is one of those things I mean. First, whether she said this or not, we don't know because our only reference is that someone on the internet said so. Next, if she said something close to this, I'd really have to hear the EXACT quote in context to be able to say what was meant by it. I have heard her speak about the 'abundant life' Jesus has given us. There are many things like power and authority over the wiles of the enemy that He has said He has given us - IN THIS LIFE! Yet, there are MANY believers living defeated lives as if we have been given nothing for this life and have to wait for heaven to see victory. This is not biblical and is leaving many believers to continue a life in defeat. So, you see, it is very important to understand the context of what was said. Which is why we, as believers should test all things in the word, but not waste our time with things we can not verify.
God Bless!

[ikester7579]

[

Why do you assume that if a ministry is successful, that it is blessed by God? Why not just say it for what it is? Some ministries are blessed by the people sending them money. This doesn't necessarily have to be of God.
Most of these prosperity teachers are just plain con artists, doing so in the name of God. This doesn't mean that Jesus knows them.
I see a lot of banners on tv and outside of huge churches, where the pastor/teacher's name is in larger letters than Jesus's name. Why is that? Do they think that their names are exalted above the name of Jesus?
I noticed in an earlier post in this thread, that it was stated that Joyce Meyer said she was living in her reward. Maybe that's the answer. She chooses to accept a reward that is temporary instead of waiting for rewards that are everlasting.

I never said that being successful is God's blessing. Whether it be a multi-million dollar church, or a 50 cent open air church. Neither can use Christ's name and do a deception on purpose and have the power of Christ in that ministry. Money does not make a church. Whether God approves, and the Holy Ghost is there is what makes a church. You can't put a price on a church that is spirit filled.

And I have yet to see any indication that Joyce's ministry is not spirit filled. And maybe someone would like to give an example of where it is not?