The "faith" of Speaking In Tongues.

[Magnetic]

Before I start this thread, I want to let you all know that I go to a pentacostal church where they speak in tongues. Every once in a while, after the worship, someone in the congregation will speak out in tongues then everyone will wait until someone "gives the interpretation". I've never spoke in tongues, and don't really seek it.

Now, to the question. This past Wednesday, the speaker spoke on "baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues". He spoke of how it was a supernatural thing to help people witness. But then he said that the act of speaking in tongues is a "step of faith. When you don't know what to pray for, your spirit will know and speaking in tongues is the language of the spirit." . . . .Something along those lines.

Now, I began to think, if something is by definition "supernatural", would there really be the necessity of "faith"? Supernatural is something that is beyond us, beyond our senses, beyond our knowledge many times. However, as the speaker spoke, he said "if you think it is you doing the talking, then you're doing it right. You have to have faith that the 'funny words' you speak is your spirit praying." I thought to myself, if I am formulating incomprehensible syllables from my mouth and having faith that it is my spirit praying, then where does the "supernatural" come into play there, and of what value does the speaking in tongues actually have? I've never really quite got the idea behind all of it.

My final thought on this was, how does my spirit somehow know how to pray when my brain apparently doesn't, . . . . as if the spirit has it's own way of "thought" that my mind isn't in touch with? It doesn't really make sense to me, . . and then when you throw in the notion of speaking words that are unintelligable, you are speaking some "spirit language" that your spirit knows?

All of this to say (bottom line) . . . . . even though I've been raised in churches that speak in tongues, I have to say that I just don't comprehend it all.

[Pilgrimtozion]

At the start of this thread, I just want to encourage all the participants to do two things:
1. Stick to the questions asked and issues raised in the OP
2. Do not turn this into a debate. This is a forum for discussing, not arguing.

Just a friendly reminder to keep things going the way they should!

Benjamin

[Steve M]

At the start of this thread, I just want to encourage all the participants to do two things:
1. Stick to the questions asked and issues raised in the OP
2. Do not turn this into a debate. This is a forum for discussing, not arguing.

Just a friendly reminder to keep things going the way they should!

Benjamin

Ah, you read my mind...

That is, I read that and chuckled, imagining the firestorm of entertaining debate to come.

In Acts the gift of tongues seems to indicate the ability to speak to others in their native tongue. "How do each of us hear in our language," etc.

Paul spoke at length on tongues in 1 Corinthians. I recommend reading the entire book. Several times, actually; that one's a personal favorite.

[Pilgrimtozion]

I think one of the crucial issues in your post is indeed the connection between the supernatural and faith. One of the phrases you find often in the Gospels is Jesus saying, "your faith has healed you". In other words, the faith brought about the working of the supernatural in the person's life.

If you look at Hebrews 11:1, the traditional translation is "Faith is the substance of things hoped for." Watchman Nee rightly points out that the word used for substance is more of a verb than a noun, which would lead us to translate it as following: Faith is the substantiating of things hoped for. Faith makes it possible for the supernatural to manifest in our lives.

Taking that as the foundation of our thoughts, we see that faith is indeed necessary for something supernatural such as speaking in tongues to occur. Faith is indeed essential for anything supernatural to occur through us; even Jesus could not do many miracles in Nazareth because of their unbelief!

The question is, of course, what one needs to have faith in. As a child, I laid in my bed one night and prayed that I would pray in that funny language that my parents pray in. With the childlike faith I had, I believed God answered my prayer and began to speak in tongues. I was 7 at the time and I have spoken in tongues ever since. My faith is in God and the fact that He gives the gift of tongues to those who ask and believe Him for it - and that the result is also from God. That my mind might interpret it as gibberish is indeed a barrier that needs to be overcome, since the rational does not always correspond with faith.

As for your assessment of what actually happens, I would say you are right in saying it is God's Spirit that is enabling us to pray His perfect will while bypassing the mind. This is something that has great spiritual power - something Paul points out in 1 Corinthians 14 when he says that speaking in tongues builds up the individual man.

I hope that gives you at least somewhat of a start in getting an answer to your questions.

Benjamin

[A820djd]

My mom has spoken in tongues before and she got the interpretation, but never said anything and then someone across the room said what it was and she was right! So hmm... I heard that tongues is actually 'Arabic tongues' an earthly language, is this true? If so why not just have an Arabic translator around to translate easier?

[Pilgrimtozion]

My mom has spoken in tongues before and she got the interpretation, but never said anything and then someone across the room said what it was and she was right! So hmm... I heard that tongues is actually 'Arabic tongues' an earthly language, is this true? If so why not just have an Arabic translator around to translate easier?

Actually, you won't find anything in the Bible saying that. Acts 2 shows us that the people on the day of Pentecost heard the apostles speaking in their own languages, which was a variety of languages. Also, some would argue that tongues is not only tongues of men but can also be tongues of angels. Don't want to argue the case, however.

[Magnetic]

But how would my spirit know Arabic language? And that particular language is no more "holy" than any other, I wouldn't think.

Along those lines, many times the speaker of the tongues, in the service, many times says the same phrase over and over with a slight deviation in it's phrasology. When someone "interprets it", the interpretation often doesn't seem to follow the same "flow" that the tongues had. It may be longer, . . . shorter, or not follow the same "syntax-ical pattern".

Here's my problem with speaking in tongues. It relies too heavily on someone else's faith that THEY are speaking the right interpretation, and when in a congregation, who's to say if the message is an actual interpretation, then who it was actually for?

I never have felt anything from those who decide to speak in tongues during a service. I've often found them to be out of place and a bit of an interuption. And those who may not be saved, in the service, may have a problem with it. Now, if the speaker of the tongues just happens to be speaking in this person's native tongue, . . . I'd say that is pretty supernatural, and would be something the unsaved person could walk away from the experience wondering what just happened.

[Steve M]

But how would my spirit know Arabic language? And that particular language is no more "holy" than any other, I wouldn't think.

Along those lines, many times the speaker of the tongues, in the service, many times says the same phrase over and over with a slight deviation in it's phrasology. When someone "interprets it", the interpretation often doesn't seem to follow the same "flow" that the tongues had. It may be longer, . . . shorter, or not follow the same "syntax-ical pattern".

Here's my problem with speaking in tongues. It relies too heavily on someone else's faith that THEY are speaking the right interpretation, and when in a congregation, who's to say if the message is an actual interpretation, then who it was actually for?

I never have felt anything from those who decide to speak in tongues during a service. I've often found them to be out of place and a bit of an interuption. And those who may not be saved, in the service, may have a problem with it. Now, if the speaker of the tongues just happens to be speaking in this person's native tongue, . . . I'd say that is pretty supernatural, and would be something the unsaved person could walk away from the experience wondering what just happened.

Again, go back to 1 Corinthians. There's instructions on when to speak in tongues, how many to speak in tongues, and when not to speak in tongues. (specifically, with the unbeleiver among you)

A lot of Churches who practice tongue-speaking ignore those scriptures entirely, while using the existence of the chapter to defend the practice. That's something I personally don't like at all. If you say the gift has a place here and now, you're bound by the rules Paul set down for their use.

Still... as I'm not a tongue-speaker, I suppose that doesn't hold much weight.

[Pilgrimtozion]

But how would my spirit know Arabic language? And that particular language is no more "holy" than any other, I wouldn't think.

Along those lines, many times the speaker of the tongues, in the service, many times says the same phrase over and over with a slight deviation in it's phrasology. When someone "interprets it", the interpretation often doesn't seem to follow the same "flow" that the tongues had. It may be longer, . . . shorter, or not follow the same "syntax-ical pattern".

Here's my problem with speaking in tongues. It relies too heavily on someone else's faith that THEY are speaking the right interpretation, and when in a congregation, who's to say if the message is an actual interpretation, then who it was actually for?

I never have felt anything from those who decide to speak in tongues during a service. I've often found them to be out of place and a bit of an interuption. And those who may not be saved, in the service, may have a problem with it. Now, if the speaker of the tongues just happens to be speaking in this person's native tongue, . . . I'd say that is pretty supernatural, and would be something the unsaved person could walk away from the experience wondering what just happened.

Coming from a Pentecostal background, I understand your questions. I myself have had times in Bible school where somebody spoke in tongues, an interpretation came forth, and I was left wondering to which extent this was all 'real'.

At the same time, I myself have been moved by the Holy Spirit to give an interpretation at times. All I can say is that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was the Holy Spirit moving me to interpret and that what I said was from God and not from me. I would suggest to leave the final call up to God, though I can fully understand your questions.

[Diolectic]

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
There seem to be some confusion with this verse.
I will show you the best examples of this

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
Mark 7:34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
John 11:33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,

He did not speek in toungues.

Toungue is no diferent that any other Gift of the Spirit, you can not have it from your own volition.
In other words, one can not choose to speek in toungues.
The Gift must come upon you.

Think of it this way:
As one prays, it is like when one fills his cup fuller and fuller with cold water.
As one can not get any fuller "in the spirit" God comes and drops an ice cube in and then you over flow.

[OldChurchGuy]

Before I start this thread, I want to let you all know that I go to a pentacostal church where they speak in tongues. Every once in a while, after the worship, someone in the congregation will speak out in tongues then everyone will wait until someone "gives the interpretation". I've never spoke in tongues, and don't really seek it.

Now, to the question. This past Wednesday, the speaker spoke on "baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues". He spoke of how it was a supernatural thing to help people witness. But then he said that the act of speaking in tongues is a "step of faith. When you don't know what to pray for, your spirit will know and speaking in tongues is the language of the spirit." . . . .Something along those lines.

Now, I began to think, if something is by definition "supernatural", would there really be the necessity of "faith"? Supernatural is something that is beyond us, beyond our senses, beyond our knowledge many times. However, as the speaker spoke, he said "if you think it is you doing the talking, then you're doing it right. You have to have faith that the 'funny words' you speak is your spirit praying." I thought to myself, if I am formulating incomprehensible syllables from my mouth and having faith that it is my spirit praying, then where does the "supernatural" come into play there, and of what value does the speaking in tongues actually have? I've never really quite got the idea behind all of it.

My final thought on this was, how does my spirit somehow know how to pray when my brain apparently doesn't, . . . . as if the spirit has it's own way of "thought" that my mind isn't in touch with? It doesn't really make sense to me, . . and then when you throw in the notion of speaking words that are unintelligable, you are speaking some "spirit language" that your spirit knows?

All of this to say (bottom line) . . . . . even though I've been raised in churches that speak in tongues, I have to say that I just don't comprehend it all.

At the risk of crossing the warning about a debate, it seems to me the speaker is incorrect by saying the speaking in tongues is an act of faith BECAUSE (finish the paragraph, please) it is a gift. Just like the other gifts mentioned in Paul's writings (knowledge, teaching, wisdom, etc.) not everyone has the same gifts. Therefore, not everyone is going to be able to speak in tongues.

OldChurchGuy

[childforgiven]

ok so i have been raised non denominational we dont like the whole divided thing going on with denomination but are belives are close to penecostal. any way i was raised in a church that definatly speaks the "penecostal way" as i have heard a lot. ok i have been filled with the Holy Spirit several times. it is an amazing feeling i cant describ it is awesome. i have spoken in tongues before i am not in control when i do it is just sorta like i have no way to stop nomatter what. i think that some people are afraid to release themselves into Gods hands to have the experince to speak in tongues. i know that many people can claim to speak in tongues it would be pretty easy it is just mumble a lot of random words or well half of words iguess and sometimes that is what seems to be happening with somepeople in my church,but it is hard to know the difference. there have been sometimes i have wondered if someone was faking it. it just is a little....foggy i guess, it just seems like a weird moment. i mean sometimes i can just feel how awesome the movment is but sometimes it is like someone forcing what isnt there. i do have a question though is it a sin to fake the holy spirit? i belive it is wrong because of several reasons but i want to know all of yalls thoughts.

[ForceMajuere]

I realyze that this can be a very divisive topic, but it's a very important one since a good portion of the church rejects it catagorically while another part of the church embraces it emphatically for this present age?

Fortunately, the scripture has much to say about this; just because it's not necesarily part of your everyday experience doesn't mean it's not valid for the present day church. No one questions divine healing but how many can say its a daily experience for them.

Tongues:

1) Edifies the believer(1Cor.14:4)

2) Is a gift of the Holy Spirit(Mark 16:17,1 Cor.12:10)

3) Can be the tongues of men or of angels(1 Cor.13:1)

4) May or may not be a message from God to the body; ie.,at Pentacost men heard in their native languages the wonderful works of God-something that was done simultaneously by numerous individuals, not a conscious message being delivered in which 1 person spoke and the rest listened. In 1Cor.14:27-28 the context is a mesage given in an unknown tongue to the body-far different than people(men and women) being stirred simultaneously to speak praises to God in an unknown tongue.

5) Ministered according to the measure of faith that the individual has;
"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophecy according to the proportion of faith."(Rom.12:6) Since prophecy, a spiritual gift is referred, speaking in tongues, a spiritual gift, is inferred

The greatest opposition to spiritual gifts in our time has been the doctrine of dispensationalism which has taught that tongues(and other spiritual gifts) ceased after the Age of the Apostles. Up until Azuza Street Revival in 1900 this was thought to be univerally true and then the Pentacostal, followed by the Later Rain, Charismatic, Third Wave, and other movements have refuted it. The fastest church growth has been in Pentacostal/charismatic churches and the greatest missions growth has been by this same movement.

6) Finally, gifts are given, fruits are grown. 1Cor. 13:1 tells us that we can speak in all the tongues possible but without love it is sounding brass or tinkling symbol. We don't judge the character of an individual by the spiritual gift he manifests but by the fruit he exhibits. But we are told in 1Cor. 14:39,"Wherefore brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."

James 1:17 says,"Every good and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." If God has given us a perfect gift, who are we to despise God's gift. Rather we are to grow in it's usage.

Sincerely.

FM

[godsgirl]

Just a couple points here-first of all-we are not "out of control" when we speak in tongues-the Bible says, "the Spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets"-when the Lord asks us to speak in tongues (as a gift of the Spirit) we can obey or not obey.
The Bible teaches that the "gift" of tongues is different in purpose and use from the tongue we receive at our baptism in the Spirit. All who are baptised in the Spirit can speak in tongues (Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, Acts 19:6) but not all will be used in the gift of tongues. (out loud in the congregation where it must be interpreted so that the church will be built up).

As far as the gift of tongues being sometimes the same words over and over-and not the interpretation? That's a good question-but we must realise that the word is "interpretation" not "translation". When someone is interpreting someone elses art, for example, they can describe it in detail or just the basics. The gift of interpretation works the same way.

[Toolapc]

Before I start this thread, I want to let you all know that I go to a pentacostal church where they speak in tongues. Every once in a while, after the worship, someone in the congregation will speak out in tongues then everyone will wait until someone "gives the interpretation". I've never spoke in tongues, and don't really seek it.

Now, to the question. This past Wednesday, the speaker spoke on "baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues". He spoke of how it was a supernatural thing to help people witness. But then he said that the act of speaking in tongues is a "step of faith. When you don't know what to pray for, your spirit will know and speaking in tongues is the language of the spirit." . . . .Something along those lines.

Now, I began to think, if something is by definition "supernatural", would there really be the necessity of "faith"? Supernatural is something that is beyond us, beyond our senses, beyond our knowledge many times. However, as the speaker spoke, he said "if you think it is you doing the talking, then you're doing it right. You have to have faith that the 'funny words' you speak is your spirit praying." I thought to myself, if I am formulating incomprehensible syllables from my mouth and having faith that it is my spirit praying, then where does the "supernatural" come into play there, and of what value does the speaking in tongues actually have? I've never really quite got the idea behind all of it.

My final thought on this was, how does my spirit somehow know how to pray when my brain apparently doesn't, . . . . as if the spirit has it's own way of "thought" that my mind isn't in touch with? It doesn't really make sense to me, . . and then when you throw in the notion of speaking words that are unintelligable, you are speaking some "spirit language" that your spirit knows?

All of this to say (bottom line) . . . . . even though I've been raised in churches that speak in tongues, I have to say that I just don't comprehend it all.

it reminds me of the movie borat when he finds Jesus


speaking in touges to me is talking about the bible in your own way and no one else really knows what your talking about.

Jesus will return during the sounding of the last trumpet when all of mankind will be resurrected with a new spirtual body. This is speaking in touges because the body of Christ doesnt really know what im talking about.

the speaking in touges we have today seems to be false and the people lie to them selfs. you know when the 12 apostles can speak there own language after the holy spirit entered them. It seems like today people try to copy this story and they act like they can speak in tongues.The truth is its just there self making up random words and they manipulate there self and they think God is speaking. The only part in the bible when man can speak a different language or his own is when the 12 apostles see the holy spirit and the spirit enters them.

Now this doesn't happen to your every day man and the only people alive that will have this happen is the last prophet of mankind or the two witnesses. The Lord sends us two lamp stands that are from heaven and these are the only people that will be able to do the same things as the 12 apostles. to solve this problem it would be nice to have all the scripture on this topic and what group of people in the bible spoke in tongues did saint Paul speak in tongues.tobad Padre Peo isnt around he would know