Eternal Security (Once Saved Always Saved)

[lordzboy]

I was a Christian for 17 years before i started understanding the eternal security message and now for the life of me i can't see how anyone can see it any different. The funny thing is, most (not all) of the scriptures that people use to support a "maintained" salvation is the same scriptures people use to support eternal security. What say you?

[The Parson]

Good start but this one actually belongs in Bible Chat due to the nature of the subject.

[OneStep]

I was a Christian for 17 years before i started understanding the eternal security message and now for the life of me i can't see how anyone can see it any different. The funny thing is, most (not all) of the scriptures that people use to support a "maintained" salvation is the same scriptures people use to support eternal security. What say you?

Share please, if you will, the scriptures you speak of.

[jiggyfly]

Share please, if you will, the scriptures you speak of.

I too am very interested in the scriptures you speak of.

[taddy]

I don't believe in "Once saved, always saved".

MARK 4:5 (from the sower)

"And some {seed} fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth".

MARK 4:16-17

" {16}And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who when they have heard the Word, immediately receive it with gladness; {17} And have no root in themselves, and so endure for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth, immediately they are offended".

These verses clearly tell us that these people have been born again. (IMMEDIATELY RECIEVE IT, ENDURE FOR A TIME), and then fell from grace when bad times come.

GALATIANS 5:4

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; you are FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Clearly states that Salvation can be lost. You can not fall from grace, unless you have been saved by grace.

1 TIMOTHY 4:16

"Take heed unto yourself, and unto the Doctrine; CONTINE IN THEM: for in doing this you shall save yourself and them who hear you"

Notice the phrase "CONTINUE IN THEM". This implies that a person can indeed DISCONTINUE in the Doctrine. If once saved always saved is true, then this verse would not need to be in the Bible!

HEBREWS 10:26

"For if WE sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the Truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins".

Notice Paul included himself in this verse ( if WE sin...). Paul was indeed saved. In this verse, Paul is admitting that he and all other Christians are capable of sinning and leaving their salvation. Also notice that it says "RECIEVED the knowledge of the Truth". Any translation of the Bible that says "BELIEVED" instead of "RECIEVED" is not an accurate version. To recieve the knowledge of the Truth clearly means to get saved. The message of this verse is the same as Galatians 5:4.

2 PETER 3:17

"You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, BEWARE LEST YOU ALSO, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED, FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS".

This verse clearly disprooves once saved, always saved.


REVELATION 22:19
"And if any man {or worman} shall take away from the words of this Prophesy, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are wriiten in this Book {The Book of Revelation}".

"GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART IN THE BOOK OF LIFE". A person's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life at SALVATION and only at Salvation. This definately disprooves "Once saved, always saved".

If you have lost your salvation, the good news is that Jesus will forgive you and bring you back to Salvation.

1 JOHN 1:9

"IF we confess our sins, He {JESUS} is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness".


I hope this helps. I know that this a very controversial topic. I would have never have started this topic, but since it was here, I felt like sharing my views.

GOD bless, Tad.

[Centurionoflight]

taddy

I don't believe in "Once saved, always saved".

MARK 4:5 (from the sower)

"And some {seed} fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth".

MARK 4:16-17

" {16}And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who when they have heard the Word, immediately receive it with gladness; {17} And have no root in themselves, and so endure for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth, immediately they are offended".

These verses clearly tell us that these people have been born again. (IMMEDIATELY RECIEVE IT, ENDURE FOR A TIME), and then fell from grace when bad times come.

They did take root..
The seed did grow.
Produce fruit; No;
Take root; yep

That is salvation

GALATIANS 5:4

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; you are FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Clearly states that Salvation can be lost. You can not fall from grace, unless you have been saved by grace.

One shouldnt Add salvation to a passage that is not about salvation.

They didnt lose salvation; rather they used works to justify them self rather than grace {Which cant be earned or kept.}.

1 TIMOTHY 4:16

"Take heed unto yourself, and unto the Doctrine; CONTINE IN THEM: for in doing this you shall save yourself and them who hear you"

Notice the phrase "CONTINUE IN THEM". This implies that a person can indeed DISCONTINUE in the Doctrine. If once saved always saved is true, then this verse would not need to be in the Bible!

If one isnt in truth; then how do they know if they are saved.

This is the plea of Paul for us to stay in true doctrine.

This is not about losing salvation.

HEBREWS 10:26

"For if WE sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the Truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins".

Notice Paul included himself in this verse ( if WE sin...). Paul was indeed saved. In this verse, Paul is admitting that he and all other Christians are capable of sinning and leaving their salvation. Also notice that it says "RECIEVED the knowledge of the Truth". Any translation of the Bible that says "BELIEVED" instead of "RECIEVED" is not an accurate version. To recieve the knowledge of the Truth clearly means to get saved. The message of this verse is the same as Galatians 5:4.

Salvation isnt mentioned here; why add it to fit a dogma.

There is no more animal sacrifice for sins; because of Christs work.
We turn to him over sin; not some alter with a burning beast on it.

2 PETER 3:17

"You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, BEWARE LEST YOU ALSO, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED, FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS".

This verse clearly disprooves once saved, always saved.

Steadfeastness; not salvation is the subject.

REVELATION 22:19
"And if any man {or worman} shall take away from the words of this Prophesy, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are wriiten in this Book {The Book of Revelation}".

"GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART IN THE BOOK OF LIFE". A person's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life at SALVATION and only at Salvation. This definately disprooves "Once saved, always saved".

Take away his part;

And take away his life.

If one is adding or removing from that book they can lose their life; and their {part} reward

1 JOHN 1:9

"IF we confess our sins, He {JESUS} is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

That isnt salvation; that is the point of HEBREWS 10:26; we turn to Christ when we sin.

This is done by believers.
To say its salvation make sin the issue of salvation not Christ.

CHRIST; not sin is the issue of salvation.

John 3
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[Chris38]

CHRIST; not sin is the issue of salvation.

Excellant response. If sin is what decides our salvation then the Bible says that we all fall short.

I use to believe that one pretty much had to be spotless in order to be saved. I know at least my first ten years as a christian I was the most miserable christian I knew because I believed that I wasnt good enough becaues of my shortcomings. But then God started showing me that nobody can earn salvation. All this was shown to me from God teaching me the differance between the old and new covenant.
Lordzboy knows my story well.

[OneStep]

So is it that you believe as the Universalist do? All are saved?
Will still wait for scripture to show OSAS

[Chris38]

So is it that you believe as the Universalist do? All are saved?
Will still wait for scripture to show OSAS

I said nothing about all being saved. And never said there is a scripture that says once saved always saved. But I do believe that it was the act of Christ being sacrificed that brings salvation and our acceptance of that.

Can someone lose there salvation? I dont know.I certainly have never seen any examples of that in the Bible, except for Judas. But I do know the bible says that all have sinned and fall short. If our sins condenm us then what was the purpose of Christ being sacrificed. That power that sin had over us is broken and the righteousness from Christ has set me free from that.


Now there are those who would use that as a ticket to do whatever they want to, and people like this I would have to question if they ever were saved to begin with.

[OneStep]

Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were advocating the OSAS.
Do you believe in "backsliders"? Or is that under the heading of never being a Christian.
You state "Now there are those who would use that as a ticket to do whatever they want to, and people like this I would have to question if they ever were saved to begin with."
To me it appears that people are faced with sin every day and it is a "daily dying" of the self/flesh. 1Corinthians 15:31 tells us it is daily...therefore, I see not how it can be OSAS.

[Centurionoflight]

OneStep

So is it that you believe as the Universalist do? All are saved?
Will still wait for scripture to show OSAS

Still waiting for the scripture that shows we can become unborn.

Like if I denied what I was;
Or did something my parents disliked

Would I suddenly become a fetus?
Just whoosh; plop to the floor;
There I am; what I was before I was born.

Such silliness.

We cant return in the flesh to what we was before.
We cant return in the spirit to what we was before salvation.
It is a one way ticket.


2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We are born of the spirit; by God.

John 1

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

We are not born by our will; by being good; by doing something.

We are spiritually born by God.

This is not reversable.
If it was; then it wouldnt be a birth.

[*Madeline*]

Hi Centurionoflight!

What about this?

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

I believe in Eternal Security, I just wanted to know how you interpret this verse.

Love,
Madeline

[Centurionoflight]

*Madeline*

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Now they have a father who will flog them to keep on the straight and narrow.

For them;

It is worse;
They now have disipline, where none existed before.
They now know the truth and must suppress it to continue their path.
They now cant look to salvation as a way to make peace with God; for they are saved and they are one of his wayward sons.

[Chris38]

Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were advocating the OSAS.
Do you believe in "backsliders"? Or is that under the heading of never being a Christian.
You state "Now there are those who would use that as a ticket to do whatever they want to, and people like this I would have to question if they ever were saved to begin with."
To me it appears that people are faced with sin every day and it is a "daily dying" of the self/flesh. 1Corinthians 15:31 tells us it is daily...therefore, I see not how it can be OSAS.

Oh I do believe in backsliding. As a matter of fact have done it before myself. Although I never fell back into drugs and such, I have been to the point where I wasnt seeking God the way I use to; this would be considered backsliding and I still believe if something would have happened to me I still would have gone with Christ.
And you are correct about dying daily which Paul spoke of. But Paul also said that there is none righteous. That we all sin. So when you talk about dying daily, does it mean you never sin? And if the fact that our sins determine rather or not that we are saved then where does grace come into play.
1st John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceave ourselves and the truth is not in us.
So it is obvious that sin is present with us. And if that fact determines our salvation then we will all fall short.

[*Madeline*]

Hi again!

*Madeline*

Now they have a father who will flog them to keep on the straight and narrow.

For them;

It is worse;
They now have disipline, where none existed before.
They now know the truth and must suppress it to continue their path.
They now cant look to salvation as a way to make peace with God; for they are saved and they are one of his wayward sons.

COL, it says that "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." How is being a LOST person who is headed to an eternity in hell fire not worse than being one of his wayward sons? In the beginning they're LOST, however the "wayward son" is still saved...so how is a wayward son worse than someone who is headed for an eternity in hell? Sorry If I am confusing you. Thanks in advance!

Love,
Madeline