Depart From Me Ye That Work Iniquity

[Jesusinmyheart]

Faithwalker,

you can be sure i'll let my light shine.

Please quit thinking we are lost, cause we are not. God will give us a ton of credit for walking His ways, however, and having Faith that He will forgive us where we fall short.

Why is it that you cannot understand that the two greatest Commandments are a summary of all others ? Does this render all others null and void ?

I have studied the bible with God's leading, cause i got tired of seeing the church and what they taught, yet not producing any fruit. I went from church to church, to find my spiritual home, and i could not find it. So i went and asked God to show me truth, and He did!!! Hallelujah!!! Praise be to Him, cause no man can take credit for having taught me the truth.

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

This was directed towards the Pharisees back in Yeshuas time. I can tell you, that while Yeshua disagreed with their man made statues, He still agreed with them on the following of the Law, hence He said here:

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;
Do what ? Follow the Law!!!
but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Why would Yeshua say this?
This had to do with their pridefull appearance acting holier than thou. Wanting to be recognized for that holiness.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
What are the heavy burdens?

It's The Pharisees little "fence laws" they had erected to keep everyone 50 ft from even the posibillity of transgression of the Law, that they themselves did not observe, cause they considered themselves immune to transgression of the Law.

We are to fall on the stone and be broken, to have a broken and contrite spirit, this is how we do today's sacrifices, and these same God accepted even in OT times.

But woe to those on whom the stone falls, he will be ground into powder. Those are the people, who like the Pharisees teach false doctrine.

The sacrifices we make today are when we pick up our cross and deny our flesh and bring it into subjection to God's will. How do we know God's will ?
Look at the Law, and you know it.
This is why we follow the Law, cause we love Him Who loved us first.

This is what it means to love God with all your heart, mind, strenght and soul.

Joh 14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."

1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

This is what it means to be emulaters of Christ.

We are not in bondage to sin, or under the Law, by following it, cause Yeshua has died for us, and His blood washes us clean. We have been set free to walk like Him.

This is what it means to have Faith in Him, that if we follow/emulate Him, we will not be condemned even though we fall short.

You're obviously asking me/us to check our faith, and see if i/we are wrong, but you have not yet really opened your mind and eyes to see if we could possibly be right.
Would it hurt you to take a second look ?
Those little "contradictions about the Law" will never begin to make sense to you, unless you deny those scriptures that do not fit. OR, you open your mind, and ask God for complete truth as i had done.

I went straight to the Word and asked for answers. Do you really think the Word could possibly lead me astray ? Will God when i ask for Truth give me a snake instead ?
I had NO agenda when i asked God for Truth, i wanted to know Truth, and nothing but the Truth. And that is what i've been given.
I did not go to church, but completely searched the scriptures, dilligently searched nothing but the Word. When i emerged with the truth, i then learned what "denomination" i belonged to.

Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

I have come from the belief you espouse, i've been told and taught the same by men for many, many years. The more i read my bible, and went to church, the more i started to know in my heart that there was only parts of truth being taught. That's when i decided to set everything aside, and look to God only, and He has richly rewarded me, i've been born again. I now know the truth, and I can start over knowing the right way.

Disclaimer: i am in no wise trying to infer you're not reading the bible... it's obvious you do.
All of this posted above is strictly my opinion based on what i believe is truth, and i do not expect anyone to agree with it.

[Saved7]

wow, I didn't realize that this post would stir up so much thought in so many. I am pleased with the results so far.
Carry on.

[Saved7]

Yes, He is saying "depart from Me you who practice Torahlessness/Lawlessness".



Yes those sum up the 10 Commandments. By obeying the 10 Commandments then you are loving YHWH with all your heart and soul and strength and by obeying the 10 Commandments you will also love your neighbor.

Jesus said, "If you love me you will obey my commandments." And those commmandments were love. If we love Him, we will by nature obey. It isn't the other way around, we aren't supposed to prove our love by trying to obey, though that doesn't mean we are supposed to not obey. But rather it should be out of love for Him and a desire to please Him that we NATURALLY obey. But pride doesn't allow us to love as we are commaned to love, pride gets in our way of true fellowship, and true obedience. However, we will not be able to be perfect, and we have to remember that.
But ultimately, I believe it was the "prideful" that Jesus was talking to, because our pride keeps us from truely bowing the knee.

I suppose it would have been much easier if I had put this in there from the get go, but I wanted to give others something to think about.
Though I suppose you will still disagree with me along with many others.
That's ok.

[diffangle]

I went straight to the Word and asked for answers. Do you really think the Word could possibly lead me astray ? Will God when i ask for Truth give me a snake instead ?
I had NO agenda when i asked God for Truth, i wanted to know Truth, and nothing but the Truth. And that is what i've been given.
I did not go to church, but completely searched the scriptures, dilligently searched nothing but the Word. When i emerged with the truth, i then learned what "denomination" i belonged to.

Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

I have come from the belief you espouse, i've been told and taught the same by men for many, many years. The more i read my bible, and went to church, the more i started to know in my heart that there was only parts of truth being taught. That's when i decided to set everything aside, and look to God only, and He has richly rewarded me, i've been born again. I now know the truth, and I can start over knowing the right way.

I've experienced a parallel experience too in my walk. HalleluYah!

wow, I didn't realize that this post would stir up so much thought in so many. I am pleased with the results so far.
Carry on.

Crazy, huh?

[Jesusinmyheart]

Saved 7,

i have one question to ask you in regards to your statement in above post.

If we love Him, we will by nature obey. It isn't the other way around, we aren't supposed to prove our love by trying to obey, though that doesn't mean we are supposed to not obey. But rather it should be out of love for Him and a desire to please Him that we NATURALLY obey.

If you truly love someone, will you not sometimes do that which is contrary to your fleshly nature, because you love the person ? IOW, because you love a person, you will put your own self aside, and do that which you would not normally want to do for another ?

There's no pride involved in that, it's called humbling oneself.

This is what Yeshua did on a much grander scale the night before He was crucified:
Remember His prayer:

Mat 26:39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."

Do any of you really think Yeshua wanted to go through all of that ? No, but nevertheless, He did as God willed, not as Yeshuas flesh wanted.
I am sure Yeshua did many things against what His body would have had Him do, but He subjected Himself, as we all should, He was God, but He was also in this earthly flesh. Just cause you nevber hear about it in scripture aside from this one final time, doesn't mean he didn't have that aspect of humanness. He just never complained.

Php 2:14 Do all things without grumbling or questioning,
Php 2:15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
Php 2:16 holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain.

In the same way we need to pay our price, and pick up our cross:

Mat 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.


1Co 6:20 For you were bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body.

[diffangle]

Jesus said, "If you love me you will obey my commandments." And those commmandments were love. If we love Him, we will by nature obey. It isn't the other way around, we aren't supposed to prove our love by trying to obey, though that doesn't mean we are supposed to not obey. But rather it should be out of love for Him and a desire to please Him that we NATURALLY obey. But pride doesn't allow us to love as we are commaned to love, pride gets in our way of true fellowship, and true obedience. However, we will not be able to be perfect, and we have to remember that.

If we believe Yahushua is YHWH in the flesh, does it make sense that the way to show Him love is obeying His Commandments that were in place from the beginning?

But ultimately, I believe it was the "prideful" that Jesus was talking to, because our pride keeps us from truely bowing the knee.

I'm not saying you are but others have been... is it a prideful thing to be angry/mocking at those who choose to obey His Commandments that have been in place from the beginning?

I suppose it would have been much easier if I had put this in there from the get go, but I wanted to give others something to think about.
Though I suppose you will still disagree with me along with many others.
That's ok.

That is okay, we can definately agree to disagree, I love you no matter what, that includes those who have mocked us.

Peace

[Braves27]

[quote=Faithwalker;1256508]The OLD Testament does not include "we" Please take ....[/quote]


In all of this, as hard as I tried, I could not find anything actually relating to the topic at hand.
Here's the thing:
I've been trying to figure this out for a while now, and have pretty much come to be sure that my stance is as GOD's word instructs. Through all the arguments I've seen against keeping GOD's law, every one either relies (like the one in the post I quoted) entirely on interpretation of otherwise unrelated scriptures, or entirely on certain words of Paul.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
You all have to remember that Paul writes complicated things that are hard to understand. Remeber, he is an apostle of Jesus Christ, and nothing he says is going to contradict the words of Jesus, or, for that matter, anything else in the Bible. So, when you find something in his letters that appears to do that(and Jesus definitely never told anyone not to follow the law--every appropriate scripture is already laid down in this thread), humble yourself and realize that you are not understanding it correctly. Read more thoroughly and pray for understanding:
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.




Yall listen to Jesusinmyheart. He's dropping some serious knowledge right now. Read the scriptures he's posting. Read them.

[HalleluYAH]

Yall listen to Jesusinmyheart. He's dropping some serious knowledge right now. Read the scriptures he's posting. Read them.

Agreed. Except he is spelling the Messiah's name wrong.

[Jesusinmyheart]

Braves 27,

i'm a she

[Jesusinmyheart]

Agreed. Except he is spelling the Messiah's name wrong.

If i'm in error on His name, please do show me.

[jiggyfly]

1 Timothy 1:3-11
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 knowing this, that the law is notmade for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

[diffangle]

1 Timothy 1:3-11
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 knowing this, that the law is notmade for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

It's made for the lawless and disobedient... Yahushua said, " Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. "

Have you ever been guilty of being angry at your brother? Have you ever been guilty of any of those things listed in 1 Timothy? If so, would that make you guilty of lawlessness?

[Saved7]

Saved 7,

i have one question to ask you in regards to your statement in above post.

If you truly love someone, will you not sometimes do that which is contrary to your fleshly nature, because you love the person ? IOW, because you love a person, you will put your own self aside, and do that which you would not normally want to do for another ?

There's no pride involved in that, it's called humbling oneself.

Ummm, that's what I said. When I said "by nature" I meant it will be a natural thing to us, because of our love for him, it's our "new" nature.

[Braves27]

Braves 27,

i'm a she

haha...sorry bout that.

[jiggyfly]

It's made for the lawless and disobedient... Yahushua said, " Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. "

Have you ever been guilty of being angry at your brother? Have you ever been guilty of any of those things listed in 1 Timothy? If so, would that make you guilty of lawlessness?

Prime example, desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.