How serious are we about science?

[ThinkingFaith]

I have a peeve that I shared with one of the mods and I thought maybe I should share it here. Maybe it's something we can together come to some consensus about.

Regularly on Christian websites I see science misrepresented. I don't think in most cases it is intentional, I think it's usually just the product of lack of scientific education by the writers.

Often when I and other Christians point out the "actual" science, we are moderated or ridiculed.

In my mind lying about science is not different than lying about anything else--we ought not do it.

I deal with non-Christians every day. Many of them know the science and are quick to dismiss Christianity because of the stupid, uneducated things we say. So what should we do when as a Christian we see science misrepresented on this board or other Christian websites?

[DSK]

I have a peeve that I shared with one of the mods and I thought maybe I should share it here. Maybe it's something we can together come to some consensus about.

Regularly on Christian websites I see science misrepresented. I don't think in most cases it is intentional, I think it's usually just the product of lack of scientific education by the writers.

Often when I and other Christians point out the "actual" science, we are moderated or ridiculed.

In my mind lying about science is not different than lying about anything else--we ought not do it.

I deal with non-Christians every day. Many of them know the science and are quick to dismiss Christianity because of the stupid, uneducated things we say. So what should we do when as a Christian we see science misrepresented on this board or other Christian websites?

First of all we should make sure we are able to distinquish true science from science fasely called.

1 Tim 6:20 Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

True science is observable, and repeatable.

[GothicAngel]

I think yes it is good to argue science, to see what is true, but not to say that you are a Christian and thus believe in that, because those who disagree will then have a low opinon of Christianity

[ThinkingFaith]

First of all we should make sure we are able to distinquish true science from science fasely called.

1 Tim 6:20 Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

True science is observable, and repeatable.

Exactly. But when Christians ignore solid science in favor of their interpreations of scripture, we become fools.

For example one thing I see regularly on Christian websites is the idea that the dating methods used by scientists are flawed. They're not. They've been verified again and again. And again. Yet, because a Christian wants to interpret the Bible to teach the universe is only a few thousand years old, they say science doesn't count.

And those who might otherwise see Christianity as viable are discouraged from seeking Christ because of silly superstitions.

[OneStep]

In my humble opinion, I believe science has a purpose.
I believe many times it actually upholds the truth in the Bible.
I also know that science discoveries are forever changing from one discovery to the latest and updated discovery which may actually show that the first discover was in error.

[ThinkingFaith]

In my humble opinion, I believe science has a purpose.
I believe many times it actually upholds the truth in the Bible.
I also know that science discoveries are forever changing from one discovery to the latest and updated discovery which may actually show that the first discover was in error.

That's what makes science dependable. Science is peer reviewed constantly. If one wants to question the age of the earth, he's welcome to, but he also has to demonstrate his methodology.

Christians seem to quickly dismiss science as speculation. It's not.

[OneStep]

I am Christian...a struggling one though it may be, and I do not dismiss science as speculation.
It all comes together with the truth of the bible, it is just a manner of interpretaion. Nothing in science can prove error to the Bible. It can prove error in intrepretation.

[ThinkingFaith]

I am Christian...a struggling one though it may be, and I do not dismiss science as speculation.
It all comes together with the truth of the bible, it is just a manner of interpretaion. Nothing in science can prove error to the Bible. It can prove error in intrepretation.

Good post OS,

One of the problems I see with many Christian websites is assuming they have an accurate understanding of scripture even when it defies reality. They assume their interpretation trumps observation.

[ThinkingFaith]

OK, I am going to say something I have been reluctant to say...

I wonder how many Christians really want to hear anything that causes them to re-evaluate what they believe, even on this board. That troubles me. When we have to ignore reality to be a Christian then we are no better than those who believe the world is supported on the back of a couple turtles.

[OneStep]

I am hoping you get more input than just mine, but here is mine again.
I am forever "re-evaluating" what I believe. I say that because what I believed when my journey first started has changed considerably. I am under, my own, assumption that as my growth occurs in my spiritual walk, not to mention my actual age, that what I thought was "the way" and the only way, was not so.
I am forever seeking further knowledge, from all sources, that I may make a valuable judgement of my belief.
I agree, to some point, that many christians do not want to hear anything than that which they have heard for many years. They would prefer to stay in their "comfort zone". If they were to venture out of that comfort zone, some, may have their very foundation shaken. Don't know anyone that particularly likes to be proven in error.
Personally, I believe if we do not venture out, we gain less.

[ThinkingFaith]

I am hoping you get more input than just mine, but here is mine again.
I am forever "re-evaluating" what I believe. I say that because what I believed when my journey first started has changed considerably. I am under, my own, assumption that as my growth occurs in my spiritual walk, not to mention my actual age, that what I thought was "the way" and the only way, was not so.
I am forever seeking further knowledge, from all sources, that I may make a valuable judgement of my belief.
I agree, to some point, that many christians do not want to hear anything than that which they have heard for many years. They would prefer to stay in their "comfort zone". If they were to venture out of that comfort zone, some, may have their very foundation shaken. Don't know anyone that particularly likes to be proven in error.
Personally, I believe if we do not venture out, we gain less.

I agree, but I'm not sure most people on most Christian websites do. It's sad and it makes the job of evangelists harder when they encounter those who have an accurate understanding of the universe.

The universe is billions of years old. Evolution is a fact. As long as we are denying these simple facts we look like fools.

[pmckelvy]

The problem is that what is fact in the secular world has a tendancy to change, then who looks stupid for believing it? In the 70's it was fact that an ice age was coming. Trends in the past were brought forth to prove this "fact". Those who thought it was rubbish were looked at as having their heads in the sand. There is middle ground. Science has done much but is not even close to having the answers. The Word of God has ALL the answers but we can't see them yet. And here we are in the middle. We should just be careful what we say is fact, there is the potential to be greatly shamed. God Bless.

Pat

[ThinkingFaith]

The problem is that what is fact in the secular world has a tendancy to change, then who looks stupid for believing it? In the 70's it was fact that an ice age was coming. Trends in the past were brought forth to prove this "fact". Those who thought it was rubbish were looked at as having their heads in the sand. There is middle ground. Science has done much but is not even close to having the answers. The Word of God has ALL the answers but we can't see them yet. And here we are in the middle. We should just be careful what we say is fact, there is the potential to be greatly shamed. God Bless.

What are the examples you would give as places where science is currently wrong?

[aliensyndm]

For example one thing I see regularly on Christian websites is the idea that the dating methods used by scientists are flawed. They're not. They've been verified again and again. And again. Yet, because a Christian wants to interpret the Bible to teach the universe is only a few thousand years old, they say science doesn't count.

Have they ? How ? How exactly can you ever KNOW that something is 2 million years old or 2 billion years old ? How can you verify it ? What do you check it against ?
Does it come with a label on it ? What do the majority of dating methods use ? Radioactivity. How many assumptions are made when using these methods ? Alot !

The most obvious assumption which could be in error is that the rate of decay of elements has been constant for billions of years. How can they possibly know this ? Rates of decay have only been measured for the past 100 years or so, how can you say with authority they have remained unchanged for billions of years ?

They assume that no contamination of sample ever happened. Alot of things could happen to a rock in a few billions years.

They also assume the material had no orginal daughter element in it, or claim they know how much if it did. They say all this element A was produced from element B, they know this how ?


Evolution is not a fact. Why don't you just toss out the entire bible whilst you are it then ? I mean if God has got it wrong on a few issues what's to say he has got anything right in regards to salvation etc ?
I cannot see how evolution and Christianity are compatible.
Now if someone actually had some decent evidence for evolution I might be slightly concerned, but I am still waiting on it. It's all inference, assumption, extrapolation, belief. It's moulding the evidence to fit the paradigm. It's supposed to work the other way around.

You see when you say evolution is fact and anyone who says otherwise is a fool then people get this idea that in order to be a Christian you have to check your brain in at the door and reject science and be some sort of heretic. I don't think that's the case at all. There are many well qualified scientists who do not subscribe to evolution. Many many times scientists have boldly stated things as facts and anyone who disagrees is a heretic, a fool, not educated. Many many times scientists were completely wrong. Each generation of scientists think they are smarter and more englightned than their predecessors. Oh they made mistakes cos they didn't have our modern techniques, but we have everything sorted now, we know what we are doing ! Each generation also takes great delight in pointing out the errors of their predecessors.

In the 70s the environmentalists were telling us we're going to freeze to death by the year 2000 if we don't sort stuff out. Now we're told the exact opposite and we're going to boil to death. What's the age of the earth ? Go back a couple of hundred years and it's 70 000 years old. Advance on a bit and it's a few hundred thousand years old. A bit further and it's now increased to a few millions years old. Later on they now say it's a billion. Presently they say it's 4.6 billion. So how old is it gonna be in 50 years time do you think ? Oh I know......of course we KNOW the age now right ? All those other scientists were dumb and ignorant but todays scientists have it sorted ! :thumbsup

If you're worried about looking like a fool you might be in trouble. Jesus said many people will be persecuted for their faith in him. People might say oh you have the age of the earth and evolution right but why do you still believe in a non-existent God ? They will mock you for that. If you disgaree with their supposed science they will mock you for that also. Makes no difference either way, Christian faith will often produce persecution. Personally I don't see why I should give them an inch and say ah yeah I believe in evolution when it seems to be directly in opposition with scripture(and science too but that's another story).
This is a very apt verse I think...

2 Peter 3 3:6

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

[You silly people, imagine believing in God !. You are so dumb ! Why not become an atheist and you can do anything you want then, no rules ! ]

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?

[So where is Jesus then eh eh eh ? He said he's coming back, I don't see him ?!?!]

for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

[ The way things are happening today, is the way they have always happened. Uniformitarianism ! Exactly what I was mentioning before about how things have never changed, the they are happening now is the way they have always happened. The bible is telling us right here that the scoffers will say just that ! ]

5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

[ Willinginly ignorant - they don't want to know the truth. They refuse to acknowledge that the world perished from water in the genesis flood. Alot of the things we see in the world are the result of this, whereas the scoffers deny this and say, no, it's because of processes that took billions of years, things happened then the same way then that they do now. ]


That verse seems almost custom made to address those scoffing scientists......it's almost as if he knew such people would come about it ?
Funny that.

[Teke]

I have a peeve that I shared with one of the mods and I thought maybe I should share it here. Maybe it's something we can together come to some consensus about.

Regularly on Christian websites I see science misrepresented. I don't think in most cases it is intentional, I think it's usually just the product of lack of scientific education by the writers.

Often when I and other Christians point out the "actual" science, we are moderated or ridiculed.

In my mind lying about science is not different than lying about anything else--we ought not do it.

I deal with non-Christians every day. Many of them know the science and are quick to dismiss Christianity because of the stupid, uneducated things we say. So what should we do when as a Christian we see science misrepresented on this board or other Christian websites?

Let them know science can only further prove God by it's theories, which change, tho God doesn't.