Post Regeneration Synergist

[DSK]

I have searched long and hard without any sucess to find a person or group of persons who share the same theological view which I have come to believe.
I have just now come up with a label which describes my theological view. That label is Post Regeneration Synergist. Basically what that means is that I believe that once an individual has been monergistically regenerated he/she is able to perform synergistic acts such as repenting and believing unto salvation.

[Slug1]

What

[Soj]

I have searched long and hard without any sucess to find a person or group of persons who share the same theological view which I have come to believe.

Why do you think that is?

[Sold Out]

I have searched long and hard without any sucess to find a person or group of persons who share the same theological view which I have come to believe.
I have just now come up with a label which describes my theological view. That label is Post Regeneration Synergist. Basically what that means is that I believe that once an individual has been monergistically regenerated he/she is able to perform synergistic acts such as repenting and believing unto salvation.

Does this view have roots in Calvinism?

[DSK]

Why do you think that is?

Reasons why I believe that is:

1. I personally believe people have an incorrect understanding of regeneration
2. I believe people confuse regeneration with baptism, conversion, salvation, etc.
3. Certain theological schools have too narrow and limited a understanding of salvation. (in other words, I personally believe they haven't truly considered what takes place after illumination, and the convicting work of the Holy Spirit occurs)

[DSK]

Does this view have roots in Calvinism?

No. The theology of Calvinism is monergistic. And while it's true that regeneration is in fact monergistic, which Calvinism accepts, a response of faith is synergistic which Calvinism denies.

[Slug1]

DSK, where do I find the scriptural references for the uses of the words Regeneration and Illumination?

These terms are making it difficult to understand what you're saying.

[threebigrocks]

Yep, can we ask for us simple folk to put it in simple folk terms?

Much abliged!

[DSK]

DSK, where do I find the scriptural references for the uses of the words Regeneration and Illumination?

These terms are making it difficult to understand what you're saying.

Don't let the termonology I use make it impossible to understand.

Synergism, in the sense I am using it means we are active rather than passive when it comes to repenting and believing

Monergism, in the sense I am using it, simply means we are passive, in assisting in becoming regenerated.

Regeneration in the sense I am using it, simply means that God makes us spiritually alive, and enables us to sense the convicting work of the Holy Spirit and hear the gospel message, and respond with an exercise of faith and become saved. I refer to regeneration as being the same thing as becoming illuminated.

A Scripture reference for illumination would be, Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Illumination according to Thayers can mean "to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge," Robertson's Word Pictures makes the following comment on this verse. " After ye were enlightened (phōtisthentes). First aorist passive participle of phōtizō in the same sense as in Heb_6:4 (regeneration) and like “the full knowledge of the truth” in Heb_10:26." Another good verse on illumination is 2 Cor 4:6 which from the ALT says, "Because God [is] the One having said [for] light to shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts to [give] the illumination of the knowledge of the glory of God in [the] face of Jesus Christ"

Scripture which can be referenced for regeneration can include, John 3:3-8 where we find the word "born" or "born again" is used repeatedly and basically means to regenerate. Titus 3:5 is another good verse on regeneration.

[RogerW]

Don't let the termonology I use make it impossible to understand.

Synergism, in the sense I am using it means we are active rather than passive when it comes to repenting and believing

Monergism, in the sense I am using it, simply means we are passive, in assisting in becoming regenerated.

Regeneration in the sense I am using it, simply means that God makes us spiritually alive, and enables us to sense the convicting work of the Holy Spirit and hear the gospel message, and respond with an exercise of faith and become saved. I refer to regeneration as being the same thing as becoming illuminated.

A Scripture reference for illumination would be, Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Illumination according to Thayers can mean "to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge," Robertson's Word Pictures makes the following comment on this verse. " After ye were enlightened (phōtisthentes). First aorist passive participle of phōtizō in the same sense as in Heb_6:4 (regeneration) and like “the full knowledge of the truth” in Heb_10:26." Another good verse on illumination is 2 Cor 4:6 which from the ALT says, "Because God [is] the One having said [for] light to shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts to [give] the illumination of the knowledge of the glory of God in [the] face of Jesus Christ"

Scripture which can be referenced for regeneration can include, John 3:3-8 where we find the word "born" or "born again" is used repeatedly and basically means to regenerate. Titus 3:5 is another good verse on regeneration.

Someone recently used Rev 3:20 “I stand at the door and knock” to try to show me that regeneration or salvation is not conversion. He explained how this passage is not a salvation passage at all, but what he called a conversion passage. What he likened to conversion I have always thought of as sanctification. I wonder whether this is also what you are saying?

I have no problem with your understanding of how salvation comes through God ALONE. How after salvation, after His righteousness has been imputed to us, that righteousness in a sense is ours because it is certainly working through us, but in another sense can we ever say that His righteousness imputed to us becomes truly ours, enabling us to do those synergistic works “repenting” and “believing”? Do we dare take credit for any of it? And yet throughout Scripture we find reference to “faith” as ours, and as a working faith? I guess for me the question would be who’s faith works through believers? It was His faith that brought us to salvation, it was given/imputed to us, does that then make His faith we received at salvation ours? We have to be very careful when looking for this faith in Scripture because the vast majority of verses have been translated changing the word “of” to “in”. Many verses that should speak of His faith, have been translated to faith “in” Christ. Here a few that got it right.

Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
RW

[DSK]

RW, it seems to me from some of your comments that you probably don't understand my POV. Don't feel bad, I haven't as yet found anyone who does. I am finding that it is very difficult to put my POV into words, and I believe part of the reason for that is because my POV is an unheard of point of view, at least in my research. I am not even saying my POV is necessarily the absolute correct POV, however it is the view I have arrived at after spending countless hours studying Scripture. Having said that let me address some of your comments and provide answers using my personal POV.

Someone recently used Rev 3:20 “I stand at the door and knock” to try to show me that regeneration or salvation is not conversion.

I don't know about Rev 3:20, but I don't believe regeneration is salvation. The following statement maybe helpful to understand my view "In Regeneration, God confers the power to repent and turn, conversion is the exercise of that power.regeneration is not conversion, but makes conversion possible."

I have no problem with your understanding of how salvation comes through God ALONE.

I never said that. What I was trying to stress is regeneration comes through God alone. And once again regeneration isn't the same thing as salvation. We have to be able to distinguish the difference in meaning between theological terms.

His faith we received at salvation ours?

If I'm not mistaken, you are of the Reformed faith. Correct me if I'm wrong. Now even Reformed theology states that regeneration precedes faith. And since regeneration also precedes becoming saved, and since we cannot be saved without faith, then we don't receive faith "at salvation" We receive faith in order that we might become saved.

A few other thoughts which may or may not help you to understand my POV include:

"We are not regenerated because we believe, we believe because we are regenerated."

Hodge holds conversion to be a duty in which the sinner is active, but that the precedent regeneration is by a miracle in which the sinner is passive.

"In regeneration, God turns to man. In conversion man turns to God." - Lockyer

"Coming to Christ is the very first effect of regeneration. No sooner is the soul quickened than it at once discovers its lost estate, is horrified thereat, looks out for a refuge, and believing Christ to be a suitable one, flies to him and reposes in him. The understanding is darkened. Of that we have abundant Scriptural proof. I am not now making mere assertions, but stating doctrines authoritatively taught in the Holy Scriptures, and known in the conscience of every Christian man—that the understanding of man is so dark, that he cannot by any means understand the things of God until his understanding has been opened." (above quote taken from the message "Human Inability" by C. Spurgeon - http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0182.htm)

[RogerW]

I don't know about Rev 3:20, but I don't believe regeneration is salvation. The following statement maybe helpful to understand my view "In Regeneration, God confers the power to repent and turn, conversion is the exercise of that power.regeneration is not conversion, but makes conversion possible."

You're right I am having trouble understanding your view. In my study of Scripture I find “regeneration” is indeed power to repent and turn, but the two times regeneration is found in the NT it describes salvation. The definition of the word is “rebirth”.

Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I found only one verse in the NT to try to help me understand “conversion.” Conversion means to turn about, or turn towards. The word implies “a turning from and a turning to” corresponding to these are repentance and faith, as in 1Th 1:9 “and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;”

Ac 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion (salvation demonstrated through speaking in tongues) of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

The point I am trying to make is that I don’t see a difference between regeneration, and conversion. Both of these words are identified with salvation. The word “salvation” is to deliver, or rescue.

I never said that. What I was trying to stress is regeneration comes through God alone. And once again regeneration isn't the same thing as salvation. We have to be able to distinguish the difference in meaning between theological terms.

I think I can understand your distinction between the two, that God begins the process through regeneration (new birth), and after the regenerating process one responding through conversion (turning to Christ)? The problem I find with this is that it implies man has some part in his/her salvation. I believe that man is passive in salvation, and does not have sanctifying faith until after he/she is saved. It is only after the whole process of being born again and received His righteousness/faith that we are able to respond in belief.

If I'm not mistaken, you are of the Reformed faith. Correct me if I'm wrong. Now even Reformed theology states that regeneration precedes faith. And since regeneration also precedes becoming saved, and since we cannot be saved without faith, then we don't receive faith "at salvation" We receive faith in order that we might become saved.

If regeneration is the new birth, and I believe it is, this must precede the imputation of righteousness/faith to believe. Because we have no righteousness/faith of our own that causes us to believe. We must be imputed with His righteousness/faith at salvation in order to believe. I believe the process is simultaneous, and something like this: (1) there is a supernatural drawing from the Father to the message of the cross (this can be a process, not necessarily instantaneous) (2) we hear the message of the cross, and if we will be saved our spiritual ears are opened by the Spirit through the Word (3) we are at that moment imputed with the righteousness/faith of Christ causing us to believe the message (4) we have come into the Kingdom of God. This whole process is salvation, and you’ll notice the whole process is of God, and none of me. Even the drawing from the Father is supernatural, and did not originate from within.

"We are not regenerated because we believe, we believe because we are regenerated."

Absolutely! Since in my way of thinking regeneration is salvation, we cannot believe without regeneration. I cannot find agreement in any view that teaches man knowingly, actively participates in salvation. I believe salvation is totally of Christ alone.

RW

[Soj]

Reasons why I believe that is:

1. I personally believe people have an incorrect understanding of regeneration
2. I believe people confuse regeneration with baptism, conversion, salvation, etc.
3. Certain theological schools have too narrow and limited a understanding of salvation. (in other words, I personally believe they haven't truly considered what takes place after illumination, and the convicting work of the Holy Spirit occurs)

I see. We have somewhat in common you and I, for I too subscribe to a belief system that is rare in this day and age and sometimes feel sad that there aren't more people of like faith out there, but I don't allow such feelings to rob me of the peace and great contentment that I rest in, *knowing* that my God has blessed me with a faith and belief in his word that is unshakeable.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free...

[DSK]

In my study of Scripture I find “regeneration” is indeed power to repent and turn, but the two times regeneration is found in the NT it describes salvation. The definition of the word is “rebirth”.

That view is too narrow and confined. Regeneration cannot possibly be the power which enables us to repent and turn, and at the same time be salvation itself, because salvation comes only after repentance.

I found only one verse in the NT to try to help me understand “conversion.” Conversion means to turn about, or turn towards. The word implies “a turning from and a turning to” corresponding to these are repentance and faith, as in 1Th 1:9 “and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;”

Alright, lets work with that. I don't find any disagreement with what is said there. The only thing you need to think through is that regeneration is solely the work of God. Even those of the Reformed faith agree on that point. You see even from your own comments on conversion, it is not described as being solely a work of God. Therefore conversion differs from regeneration. Notice the "ye turned" in your comment. That is a description of a synergistic act, much like repenting and believing are both synergistic. Whereas regeneration is monergistic.

I think I can understand your distinction between the two, that God begins the process through regeneration (new birth), and after the regenerating process one responding through conversion (turning to Christ)? The problem I find with this is that it implies man has some part in his/her salvation. I believe that man is passive in salvation.

Well that is what Reformed teaching says, but Scripture disagrees. We know that unless a man first repents and believes he cannot be saved. And we know God doesn't do our repenting or believing for us. Those are not passive acts. We must each personally repent and believe if salvation is to be the result. Lets see how synergism is mentioned in Scripture.

Acts 16:30 Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy

The command to the jailer was to believe. Believe (pisteuō) is a verb which requires action on the part of the individual. Not a hint of passivity there.

Acts 17:30 Therefore, having overlooked the times of ignorance, God now commands all people everywhere to repent,

God commands us to repent. Once again the command directed to individuals isn't passive. Repent (metanoeō) is also in verb form. Verbs are not passive.

The conclusion I draw is that in regeneration man is passive. Regeneration is solely a monergistic work of God. Once regenerated, the Holy Spirit now begins His convicting work, and leading us to repentance and to exercise faith to become saved.

[RogerW]

Well that is what Reformed teaching says, but Scripture disagrees. We know that unless a man first repents and believes he cannot be saved. And we know God doesn't do our repenting or believing for us. Those are not passive acts. We must each personally repent and believe if salvation is to be the result. Lets see how synergism is mentioned in Scripture.

Acts 16:30 Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy

The command to the jailer was to believe. Believe (pisteuō) is a verb which requires action on the part of the individual. Not a hint of passivity there.

It is true that we must believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved, and it is also true that believing is not passive. But how does Paul show us is the only way we will believe? Paul instructed the jailer to believe because he did not yet believe. So Paul preaches to him the word of the Lord, and all that were in his house. Straightway he and his whole house was baptized, then (after hearing the Word of the Lord) he and his house believed in God. “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Ro 10:17)

Ac 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Ac 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Ac 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Acts 17:30 Therefore, having overlooked the times of ignorance, God now commands all people everywhere to repent,

God commands us to repent. Once again the command directed to individuals isn't passive. Repent (metanoeō) is also in verb form. Verbs are not passive.

The conclusion I draw is that in regeneration man is passive. Regeneration is solely a monergistic work of God. Once regenerated, the Holy Spirit now begins His convicting work, and leading us to repentance and to exercise faith to become saved.

Going through Athens Paul preached the message of the cross to men on Mars Hill. They listened to Paul until he spoke of the resurrection of the dead. Then some mocked, and others said they would like to hear more from Paul on this matter. These did not believe, so they could not repent, so Paul departed from them, but not everyone mocked the message Paul brought, some did believe, but again it is after hearing the Word of the Lord. “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Ro 10:17)

Ac 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Ac 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
Ac 17:33 So Paul departed from among them.
Ac 17:34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

None of these could follow the command to repent because they had not been given faith to believe, and we will not repent if we do not believe.

I would agree that salvation is of Christ alone. After man is saved his work of faith is not a work that man does to cooperate in salvation/repentance/conversion by turning to God, but a work of sanctifying, or growing in the graces through the operation of God working through him in faith.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

What is Paul talking about when he asks if some do not believe will their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? What does Paul mean “the faith of God”?

Ro 3:3 For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

RW