Post or Pre tribulation Rapture?

[Brotherken]

Have you all read the "left behind" books?

Well some bible scholars (bible answer man,Hank Hanegraaff ) think that the rapture will come at the end of the tribulation...Others think it will come before the trib...like in "left behind"....What do you think?

[ShirleyFord]

Have you all read the "left behind" books?

Well some bible scholars (bible answer man, Hank Hanagraph) think that the rapture will come at the end of the tribulation...Others think it will come before the trib...like in "left behind"....What do you think?

There is no Scripture that I can find that states that the Church will be removed off the planet before tribulation comes. Nor can I find where Jesus is going to have multiple Second Comings: 1 before the trib and 1 after the trib.

I really doesn't matter what I think or what you think or what Bible scholars think about the Rapture but what the Bible literally says.

Wouldn't you agree?


Shirley

[dan]

Not the Church, but "the righteous and merciful people".

IS 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

[Pilgrimtozion]

Moving this to the End Times Chat...please continue!

[cwb]

Have you all read the "left behind" books?

Well some bible scholars (bible answer man, Hank Hanagraph) think that the rapture will come at the end of the tribulation...Others think it will come before the trib...like in "left behind"....What do you think?

I Thess 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

[dworthington]

Being caught up together in the air is very differant that the second coming when Jesus sets foot on the mount of Olives.
By the way I am a pre-tribber.

[David Taylor]

Not the Church, but "the righteous and merciful people".

IS 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Isaiah 57 isn't talking about a Pretrib Rapture of the Church.

Put in its proper context, it is contrasting the wicked idolators of Isaiah's day just prior to the Babylonian Captivity, and the punishment that would soon befall them; to the righteous followers of God whom He would preserve and keep and provide rest and peace for.

When you find someone who is righteous and merciful before the Lord, you have found Christ's body, the church.

There are only two groups of people; those who faithfully follow the Lord Jesus Christ, and those who are against Him, and belong to their father the Devil.

Jesus said, "He that is not with me is against me" Mark 11:23

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" John 8:31

[windwords7]

I am an Apostolic Pre Millennialist and firmly believe that the Scripture teaches that Church will go through the tribulation. The rapture will happen but the question lies in the timing. Let me explain a little further.

I was born again at 16 years of age in movement that was and still is one of the leading proponents of a pre-trib eschatology. It wasn't until Bible School that God shifted radically my understanding of what I had previously been spoon fed as a young believer about the end-times and just assumed was correct because those who discipled me had taught me this was the "way it was". That was my mistake. It was innocent, but my mistake nonetheless.

Truth is never hurt by careful scrutiny but rather its confirmed. Taking the whole counsel of scripture regarding any given subject is the only way to arrive at any solid conclusions regarding any subject. In looking at the whole counsel of Scripture regarding everything that is on God's agenda as He concludes the current age it would seem obvious that the Church MUST be here during the great end-time revival and crisis. Furthermore, She will not just "be hanging on for dear life" but rather moving in great power and victory.

Consider the Church that finally arrives at unity, maturity, and power, a Bride without spot or wrinkle, only to be taken away when she is needed most in the greatest hour of need the world has ever known. Honestly I can not see any honest reading of the intent of God's heart for the lost of the world and one of the fundamental reasons why He has left us on the earth that would include a form of pre-trib removal of the Church.

That said I don't believe there is any benefit to disagreeing with those Godly men and women who are pre-trib with a spirit of debate but rather we must disagree with a spirit of love. The issues of the Great Tribulation and The rapture are of such magnificent importance that having an argumentative spirit will only serve to hinder and hurt.

[Toolapc]

There is no Scripture that I can find that states that the Church will be removed off the planet before tribulation comes. Nor can I find where Jesus is going to have multiple Second Comings: 1 before the trib and 1 after the trib.

I really doesn't matter what I think or what you think or what Bible scholars think about the Rapture but what the Bible literally says.

Wouldn't you agree?


Shirley

i agree all that matters is Gods word. The important thing is that we read the bible it doesnt matter what you think or what view you follow. The truth is the bible only has one truth and scripture is clear. So follow your self and ask God to show you what his plan is through Scripture. try to teach yourself by listening to the holy spirit or light of God. instead of following the material world and there false teachings ask God to show you truth.

you see how the left behind view has the faithful leaving this earth this is against the bible and scripture doesnt back this false view.

The faithful never leave this earth. Instead Jesus returns during the sounding of the last angel and Now our Lord rules this world with his anointed. When Jesus returns earth becomes heaven and the faithful rule with Christ in the new earth.

[Mograce2U]

Have you all read the "left behind" books?

Well some bible scholars (bible answer man, Hank Hanagraph) think that the rapture will come at the end of the tribulation...Others think it will come before the trib...like in "left behind"....What do you think?

What tribulation is that? In Satan's little season he is able to encompasss the camp of the saints - sounds like we will still be here to me. But he will not be able to cause us any harm before the fire falls from heaven.

The Left Behind writers have very fertile imaginations, especially considering it was an event that is already in the past. If some believers were still to have to suffer these things, then where is the instruction to be found in scripture for them? Which already must assume that there is a split that can be made between saints. Is Christ going to cut off the hands and feet of His body to save them while He brings the rest thru a severe trial? Where ever we are, we will be together WITH Him, just like we are now.

You can however find instructions for what we are all to do, and it applies to any age in which we find ourselves: that is, to continue in obedience to Christ and do those things He has commanded. For even though we die, we live forever with Him. And it matters not how that death comes, since most of us probably will suffer death before He returns.

(John 16:33 KJV) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

(1 John 5:18 KJV) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

[IamRyan]

There is no Scripture that I can find that states that the Church will be removed off the planet before tribulation comes. Nor can I find where Jesus is going to have multiple Second Comings: 1 before the trib and 1 after the trib.

I really doesn't matter what I think or what you think or what Bible scholars think about the Rapture but what the Bible literally says.

Wouldn't you agree?


Shirley

What about when it says that the last days are like Lot and Noah. And Lot and Noah were saved from the coming judgement. Also, a pre-trib rapture in no way contends that this would be a second coming and then a third coming. Jesus wouldn't come, he would call us up.

[cwb]

There is no Scripture that I can find that states that the Church will be removed off the planet before tribulation comes. Nor can I find where Jesus is going to have multiple Second Comings: 1 before the trib and 1 after the trib.

I really doesn't matter what I think or what you think or what Bible scholars think about the Rapture but what the Bible literally says.

Wouldn't you agree?


Shirley

I think it would be more accurate to say that you disagree with the interpretation of the scriptures pre-tribbers use to support their position rather than say there is no scripture to support the pre-trib viewpoint.

[cwb]

you see how the left behind view has the faithful leaving this earth this is against the bible and scripture doesnt back this false view.

I think it would be more accurate to say that you disagree with the interpretation of the scriptures pre-tribbers use to support their position rather than say there is no scripture to support the pre-trib viewpoint.

[2 Peter 2:20]

Isaiah 57 isn't talking about a Pretrib Rapture of the Church.

Put in its proper context, it is contrasting the wicked idolators of Isaiah's day just prior to the Babylonian Captivity, and the punishment that would soon befall them; to the righteous followers of God whom He would preserve and keep and provide rest and peace for.

When you find someone who is righteous and merciful before the Lord, you have found Christ's body, the church.

There are only two groups of people; those who faithfully follow the Lord Jesus Christ, and those who are against Him, and belong to their father the Devil.

Jesus said, "He that is not with me is against me" Mark 11:23

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" John 8:31

If we are putting things into proper context then Jesus was ONLY speaking to the Jews and not to the Gentiles. I don't know if you are a Gentile but I am. So is Jesus not referring to me?

If you put EVERYTHING into context you can explain almost the whole Bible away.

[2 Peter 2:20]

I am an Apostolic Pre Millennialist and firmly believe that the Scripture teaches that Church will go through the tribulation. The rapture will happen but the question lies in the timing. Let me explain a little further.

I was born again at 16 years of age in movement that was and still is one of the leading proponents of a pre-trib eschatology. It wasn't until Bible School that God shifted radically my understanding of what I had previously been spoon fed as a young believer about the end-times and just assumed was correct because those who discipled me had taught me this was the "way it was". That was my mistake. It was innocent, but my mistake nonetheless.

Truth is never hurt by careful scrutiny but rather its confirmed. Taking the whole counsel of scripture regarding any given subject is the only way to arrive at any solid conclusions regarding any subject. In looking at the whole counsel of Scripture regarding everything that is on God's agenda as He concludes the current age it would seem obvious that the Church MUST be here during the great end-time revival and crisis. Furthermore, She will not just "be hanging on for dear life" but rather moving in great power and victory.

Consider the Church that finally arrives at unity, maturity, and power, a Bride without spot or wrinkle, only to be taken away when she is needed most in the greatest hour of need the world has ever known. Honestly I can not see any honest reading of the intent of God's heart for the lost of the world and one of the fundamental reasons why He has left us on the earth that would include a form of pre-trib removal of the Church.

That said I don't believe there is any benefit to disagreeing with those Godly men and women who are pre-trib with a spirit of debate but rather we must disagree with a spirit of love. The issues of the Great Tribulation and The rapture are of such magnificent importance that having an argumentative spirit will only serve to hinder and hurt.

You are right about taking the whole Bible into account.

Your quote..."Consider the Church that finally arrives at unity, maturity, and power, a Bride without spot or wrinkle, only to be taken away when she is needed most in the greatest hour of need the world has ever known."

Do you know WHO or WHAT the Bride is and WHERE the Bride comes from? The Bride is New Jerusalem and it comes from Heaven.

Rev. 21:9-10
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Now if you believe the Bride is the Church, which I do as well as the Body, and the angel tells John that the city decends out of Heaven then the Church must be in the city. This means at some point the Church is taken to Heaven to be able to decend with the city.