Is Speaking in Tongues Essential for Salvation

[EarlyCall]

Luke,

I understand that you disagree and consider my understanding of Corinthians to be in error. And certainly that you disagree with me is quite acceptable.

Now I've come to learn a new tact of approaching things, and though I am not always successful in my attempts, I try to use wisdom in knowing that I think a thing, but I am not the last word, therefore the difference in what I know can sometimes be very great between what I think and what I believe.

I also recognize that is true with everyone else regardless of whether they realize it or not.

And finally, this also means that I need to carefully consider what others think.

I do want to respond to you out of courtesy, but I also want to be very clear that I will not argue this with you or anyone else. One more thing I've come to learn recently is that my opinion and thoughts matter most between God and myself with God being the one to set me right, certainly through His word, certainly through the Holy Spirit and yes, certainly sometimes through others. But arguing my thoughts and opinions means nothing, and arguing against another's opinions means nothing.

You mention that in Corinthians Paul is speaking to those in the meeting and so my understanding and conclusion of what Paul is saying in chapter twelve is wrong. But then I notice you use chapter fourteen to make your point. Of course in chapter fourteen, Paul does get down to business concerning what ought to be taking place with gifts in meetings.

But this is a shift of focus from chapter twelve with chapter thirteen between the two.

I reread chapter twelve a moment ago as it had been a while since I'd last read it, though having read it many times, I knew it well enough to speak to it.

You went on to say that because my premise was wrong the rest of what I had to say was also wrong.

Essentially, I can only say that I am not convinced. The only conclusion I can arrive at at this point in time for me, is that Paul spoke to everyone, present and future in chapter twelve concerning the gifts and their use in the body of Christ. In fact, Paul refers to the gifts in the context of the body of Christ often enough in chapter twelve to convince me that he is not speaking of any meeting, which he does speak to in chapter fourteen. I in fact see no mention of any meeting and use of gifts in a meeting in chapter twelve.

So what I see then is that Paul moves from speaking about the gifts and they the Holy Spirit gives to each one according to His pleasure, and then Paul explaining how the gifts, distributed as they are by the Holy Spirit are used in the body of Christ.

I then see Paul move on in the next chapter to talk about love. Here too I see no meeting being the context or point of anything.

And then finally I see Paul speak to the use of some gifts in the context of a meeting. What I did not do was to jump backwards then to chapter twelve and declare that Paul must have ben speaking in chapter twelve to a group of folk in a meeting.

My understanding of chapter fourteen as I read it, is that Paul is explaining more about the use of gist, but now he is doing so concenring when Christians come together to worship - and not more broadly as in the body of Christ as He did in chapter twelve. The focus here is still not tongues, though often mentioned, but ratehr still the focus is the gifts and their use.

Finally, and again, it is my belief that we are told what we must do to be saved elsewhere, and at that point, there is no mention of speaking in tongues. And isn't this what the thread was about? Is speaking in tongues required for salvation? Paul makes no mention of such a requirement here or elsewhere, nor did Jesus.

Further on in Acts, we see where some had been saved but had not received the Holy Spirit. I read no quesitoning by Paul or anyone else as to the validity of their salvation, but rather a next step in their relationship and growth in Christ. But I read no denial of their salvation or any mention made that they were not truly saved.

It seems to me that the very character of God would require God to be most clear on what we are required to do to be saved. Our very eternity depends on this and Christ died so we might be saved. I should think God would be quite remiss to have not made this "requirement" far more clear than He has. Determining hen the character of God from His word, I can only conclude it is not a requirement.

Well, that is what I read and understand, and like I said, that then is all I can come away with in my belief. But we disagree and that is ok. I will have to trust God in this that if I am wrong, He will show me. I have to believe that is His part since He knows and I can only know when He has taught me through one means or another as I am not the author of knowledge, wisdom or truth - He is. I depend then on God to set me right when I am wrong.

[godsgirl]

Hi Godsgirl:
As in the opening post; The Burden is for you to show where these individuals were “saved” prior to the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. You cite John 20 like you have found a loophole in the gospel that negates the need for repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I am contending that the church globally has become “lukewarm” and allowed the gospel to be disarmed and paralysed by saying that simply acknowledging Jesus as saviour is a guarantee of salvation. The disciples were saved at Pentecost. How do I know this to be so? Well Peter said so: Act 11:13 And he showed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. (“AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING”)
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like giftas he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. (Note: “THEN hath God also to the Gentiles”) The Then refers to a MOMENT in TIME when salvation is granted.
This is just one example of how people jump to a conclusion at the EXPENSE of other texts. There are THREE WITNESSES in the BIBLE.
1) WATER 2) SPIRIT & 3) BLOOD Please look at ALL the references of the Holy Ghost. Look at the examples you cited and see if the WITNESSES are present to attest to the innocence of the Believer.
I am not being legalistic at all about this. The problem is (as Jesus warned us it would be) that there are those who deceive and deceive themselves.2Ti 3:13 But evil people and impostors will advance to the worse [fig., will go from bad to worse], leading astray [fig., deceiving] and being led astray [fig., being deceived].
2Ti 3:14 But _you_ be remaining in the [things] you learned and were entrusted with, knowing from whom you learned [them],

I don't want to make too much ado about tongues. I do want to emphasise the importance of it though. Take the time to FULLY examine the case I put forward and tell me if there are any floors in my argument.

God Bless

Luke 7:35

I am not in disagreement with you-concerning the fact that we all need to be Baptised in the Spirit-but I do not believe it is essential for salvation-I believe it comes AFTER salvation. The world cannot receive-can the world receive salvation? Of course, else we would all be doomed to eternity in hell. The Baptism in the Spirit is the childrens bread-it is a Promise of the Father-God is not our Father till we are saved.

As far as John 20? I am not reading anything into that except what is already there-Jesus breathed on them and told them to "receive the Spirit"-yet they were not baptised in the Spirit till Acts 2.

I realise that you are coming at this from a "oneness" point of view-I just don't see it scripturally.

[Slug1]

Allot of scripture to read through in this thread but if I get the theme of the OP, the gift of Tongues is required as a Christian?

I've never spoken in Tongues and as my walk with Jesus progresses I find myself gifted otherwise.

Here is some scripture that may already be in this thread but figured I'd post them all anyway.

Romans 12:5-7

5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his[a]faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;

Now this next paste is rather long but I'd like to make a comment... if a certain church believed that "ALL" must be given the gift of Tongues then IMO this church is lacking in the multitude of the gifts given by God to make that church strong. This is just my opinion.

1 Corinthians 12

Spiritual Gifts

1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. 4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

My opinion of a church needed more then "just" the gift of Tongues is based on much of the scripture I've pasted into this post... for example:

1 Corinthians 12:27-29

27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

I'd like to point out the bold/underlined part that it does not say "ALL" those speaking in Tongues but informs us that Tongues is just "One" of the many gifts given by God.

I also read in 1 Corinthians 14 (Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues) that not all will speak in Tongues:

13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.

Again the verse says "anyone' NOT "everyone" and as I read through this scripture is shows the downside of speaking in Tongues. This causes me to wonder why all this scripture and warnings about Tongues would even be in the Bible .

I've seen on TV the mass Tongues sweep across a church service... odd how "everyone" is speaking in Tongues EXCEPT the cameramen (are they not Christians?)... no one was interpreting to bring edification to the church...

I have seen a few people speaking in tongues as this was their gift and when I witnessed it I felt the power of the Holy Spirit. In the past I've questioned Tongues because the only experience I've had with it was on TV. But last night (yes, just last night) the Lord has blessed me and a church I've visited with a few who spoke in Tongues (a close friend as a matter of fact). That church I visited last night not only was edified by this but I experienced my own edification as I was told a little about my path I will walk for Jesus. God is wonderful

[Whispering Grace]

I have seen a few people speaking in tongues as this was their gift and when I witnessed it I felt the power of the Holy Spirit. In the past I've questioned Tongues because the only experience I've had with it was on TV. But last night (yes, just last night) the Lord has blessed me and a church I've visited with a few who spoke in Tongues (a close friend as a matter of fact). That church I visited last night not only was edified by this but I experienced my own edification as I was told a little about my path I will walk for Jesus. God is wonderful

Praise God for this! Awesome!

[Slug1]

Praise God for this! Awesome!

Yeah, my very first personal experience listening to someone speak to me a "Word of God" and also go into tongues and a translator tell us (actually both me and cheech were called out) what we're to do together for God. I cried and cried hard.

[godsgirl]

What you've seen and heard manifested Slug-is the "gift of tongues" and the "gift of interpretation"-these are gifts "for when you come together'-ie for the church. The tongue we receive when we are Baptised in the Spirit isn't the same thing. The tongue we receive then-is mostly used for talking to God. (prayer). Not all are used in the gift of tongues-but we all can be Spirit Filled-and receive tongues for prayer--"he who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to man, but to God..l.indeed no one understands".

[Slug1]

What you've seen and heard manifested Slug-is the "gift of tongues" and the "gift of interpretation"-these are gifts "for when you come together'-ie for the church. The tongue we receive when we are Baptised in the Spirit isn't the same thing. The tongue we receive then-is mostly used for talking to God. (prayer). Not all are used in the gift of tongues-but we all can be Spirit Filled-and receive tongues for prayer--"he who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to man, but to God..l.indeed no one understands".

I didn't know that there are various "versions" of tongues. I have still never seen first hand a variant of Tongues that happens during baptism. Not in myself or any that I was present at watching someone else get baptized.

[godsgirl]

I didn't know that there are various "versions" of tongues. I have still never seen first hand a variant of Tongues that happens during baptism. Not in myself or any that I was present at watching someone else get baptized.

Not at water baptism-at Spirit baptism. Like in the book of Acts-Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, Acts 19:6.

In one type-ie the gift of tongues-God speaks to man-in the other-the prayer tongue-man speaks to God. Pauls whole treatise was to correct the Corinthians on their use of the prayer tongue-in the church.

[Slug1]

Now you have me all confused about baptism

[Centurionoflight]

Yay!

Another tongues thread.

Abraham never spoke in tongues and he was found righteous to God.

Thus tongues isnt essential to salvation.

[Slug1]

Thus tongues isnt essential to salvation.

Nor to mine

[godsgirl]

Now you have me all confused about baptism

why?

Baptism into the body of Christ
Baptism in water
Baptism in the Holy Spirit

What part don't you understand? I'll explain it to you, but I don't know where your confusion comes in.

[Slug1]

Oh, I understand baptism. I just don't understand why threads like this are made that can lead weak Christians into thinking that if you don't speak in tongues when you get baptized... then you're not saved. Kinda makes people pretend to speak in tongues to "fit in".

I mean, give me a break

[godsgirl]

Well, I don't know anyone who "pretends" to speak in tongues-any more than I would know anyone who "pretends" to be saved. Speaking in tongues is the initial sign of the baptism in the Holy Spirit-not water-and not salvation. I was saved for nearly a year before I was baptised in the Spirit and didn't get baptised in water till a couple months after that.
If a person is truely seeking to find the truth-they will.
As far as "threads like this" are concerned-this is a discussion board-after all.
I mean, if you don't want to discuss it-don't. I mean, give me a break

[Slug1]

My concern is simply for those new to Christianity reading the OPs posts and fearing that they aren't saved... that they didn't receive salvation because they don't speak in tongues... that is misleading as it's not an ingredient for salvation.

Well, I don't know anyone who "pretends" to speak in tongues

When I'm watching TV and I see an entire congregation falling out and speaking in tongues... everyone except the cameramen... they're pretending. That was what I was referring to as "give me a break".