OSAS: Why I believe it to be correct?

[diffangle]

I can't help but think that PP believes that "practicing sin" is practicing those things that religion says are the major ones. Smoking, drinking, not going to church, dancing, etc. However I know many Christians who practice arrogance, pride, hatefulness toward particular groups, but never consider is sin. The problem is what we call sin and what Jesus called sin. I see many a church person doing what Jesus called sin and we don't even know that we are doing it. Talk about practicing sin. Maybe it would be helpful to give us a hypothetical situation where a 'saved' person might become lost including the sins that they were practicing.

Considering that PP is knowledgable with the Word, I'm going to venture to say that he's talking about the things that are laid out in the Scriptures as sin... adultery/fornication, murder/hate, lying, coveting, idolatry, etc. At least that's what I consider to be sins, sorry PP if I'm wrong about assuming that would be your answer too.

[ProjectPeter]

And then there is the matter of one overtaken in a stronghold. A person can have a stronghold of anger, and be repentant. Paul wrote that "our" weapons are mighty to the pulling down of strongholds. In other words, believers (i.e. the saved) can have strongholds but we can take them down.

So does practicing sin mean a stronghold where one loses him temper during certain situations?

Oh not sure that I could just answer that with a blanket yes or no. Folks would have to define "stronghold" there because I am pretty certain it would vary from person to person.

[ProjectPeter]

Matthew 1:21
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."


This is the Word of the Lord... in truth, I believe.

The very name of Jesus means that He saves/saved His people from their sins.

I believe in the name of Jesus.

That makes me OSAS.

Do I believe, perhaps, more fully in the name of Jesus... in fully embracing that Jesus saves us who are born of God from our sins... meaning I'm believing in the meaning of the name more fully, perhaps, than people like me who are equally saved from their sins?

How does anyone who is NOSAS in position, believe in the name of Jesus*?

(*As stated in the above scripture... with no "ifs, ands, or buts".)

(I'm so OSAS... I believe every born-again Christian in the NOSAS position... though they deny, in their position,... Jesus as having saved all of us in Christ from all our sins with no ifs, ands, or buts... IS STILL SAVED!!!.. )

I will rejoice to spend eternity in Heaven with each and everyone of my equal brothers and sisters in Christ...

Love in Christ,

js

Why would you even think we believe such as that? Answer this for me though... what do you think Jesus saved us from? The power of sin or do you think Jesus saved us so we could continue in sin? Scripture says that sin has no power over us... what does that mean to you in context with the Scripture?

[ProjectPeter]

Hi Brother Mark,

I guess the question is this:

How powerful is the blood of Jesus?

Oh! And how long will that body which was sacrificed for us live to make intercession for us as the propitiation for our sins?

That will tell me how long I'm going to be saved.

The security of our salvation isn't in our performance... it's in the power of the blood of Jesus Christ, the absolution of the atonement, in the propitiation for our sins.

Love in Christ,

Laura

How does that line up with what Peter says?

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge;
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness;
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

[ProjectPeter]

? - What they toot the horn while thinking in their heart "the bird"?

Is that sin.

Absolutely.

If these sins, that you define as sins, if we practice them... will result in our being banished from Heaven... could you please make an accurate list?


I mean, if this is going to cost us our salvation... I think it's absolutely vital that we be given an accurate list.

It's not fair at all to have one's eternal destiny in Heaven taken away without being given opportunity to at least KNOW THE LIST so that we can stay within the list.

Would anyone hire us to do a job, not tell us our job responsibilities, then "fire us" for not doing what they wanted? Would God do the same? Because we didn't have the list?

They are in the Bible.

Examples:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Peter, what if your list isn't completely accurate? Is there a list out there that has been officially confirmed by Christendom as a whole? If our eternal place in Heaven is gained or lost by doing the "to do's" on a list and not doing the "don't do's" on a list... and practicing this list properly is how we are saved... I think we all need the list, don't we?

It's vital. These are our eternal souls hanging in the wind, here, right? Based on how we keep and do this list?

Wouldn't doing the things on the "to do" list and not doing the things on the "don't do this" list be working to be assured of a reserved seat in Heaven?

And failing to do the things on the "to do" list and doing the things on the "don't do" list... would be failure to do the works of the list resulting in damnation?

How does that line up with the gospel?

(Wouldn't that be going back to the law? The "new list"?)

Love in Christ,

Laura

Pay attention to that last passage I posted from 1 Timothy. Those things are CONTRARY to the Gospel that Paul preached. A simple read of the Bible.... you'll find a rather complete list.

[ProjectPeter]

I can't help but think that PP believes that "practicing sin" is practicing those things that religion says are the major ones. Smoking, drinking, not going to church, dancing, etc. However I know many Christians who practice arrogance, pride, hatefulness toward particular groups, but never consider is sin. The problem is what we call sin and what Jesus called sin. I see many a church person doing what Jesus called sin and we don't even know that we are doing it. Talk about practicing sin. Maybe it would be helpful to give us a hypothetical situation where a 'saved' person might become lost including the sins that they were practicing.

Then you ain't reading.

[ProjectPeter]

Considering that PP is knowledgable with the Word, I'm going to venture to say that he's talking about the things that are laid out in the Scriptures as sin... adultery/fornication, murder/hate, lying, coveting, idolatry, etc. At least that's what I consider to be sins, sorry PP if I'm wrong about assuming that would be your answer too.

Yeah... seems no matter how many times one mentions that... it ain't heard.

[justsurfing]

Why would you even think we believe such as that? Answer this for me though... what do you think Jesus saved us from? The power of sin or do you think Jesus saved us so we could continue in sin? Scripture says that sin has no power over us... what does that mean to you in context with the Scripture?

Hi Peter,

I believe Jesus saved us from our sins.

I do not believe Jesus saved us so we could continue to sin.



I do believe Jesus saved us completely from the penalty of our sin...

thankfully, Jesus saved us from the wage of sin being death.

What's key, imo, Peter is to understand that Jesus removed from us the sinful nature.

We were saved from the nature to sin... and were given by grace the new nature of God... the divine nature.

We passed from death to life because our spirits changed from old to new.

(And how's the weather?)



Love in Christ,

Laura

[justsurfing]

Absolutely.

They are in the Bible.

Examples:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Pay attention to that last passage I posted from 1 Timothy. Those things are CONTRARY to the Gospel that Paul preached. A simple read of the Bible.... you'll find a rather complete list.

Hi Peter,

I come from the perspective that I want to look to Jesus Christ... the author and finisher (perfector) of my faith.

I think it would be very depressing, personally, to think about sin.

I think it would depress me... which would then have the result of the light within me having a bushel over it... which would drag me further into darkness... which would result in more sin.

You know, like a very negative cycle of ruin and sin and misery.

But, when I look UP to Jesus... and see the Light... I am happy and blessed.

Because I am happy and blessed... I naturally do those things which are lighter and brighter... changed from glory to glory to reflect His image.

It's a process of change, Peter.

Love in Christ,

Laura

[Brother Mark]

Oh not sure that I could just answer that with a blanket yes or no. Folks would have to define "stronghold" there because I am pretty certain it would vary from person to person.

Indeed it would. The point is just that it is possible to have a stronghold and still be saved. Here's a little bit of a definition.

Stronghold - needs to be torn down. If it needs to be tore down, am I in control of it? Is Jesus in control of it? Hmmm.

Just food for thought.

But we cannot ignore warnings in scripture. Neither can we say a single sin will cause one to lose their salvation.

[justsurfing]

How does that line up with what Peter says?

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

That right there is what I am saying... that it is His divine power working in me by grace, and mercy and love. It is Jesus in me.. the hope of glory. Yet not I live, but Christ lives in me.

I could never, Peter, "stop sinning"... imo... by "trying harder to stop sinning"... because I would be sin-conscious rather that focussed on God.

I believe it is the power of God's love that gives me faith... and with faith God is pleased.

The fruits of the Spirit are produced by the Spirit... the divine power of Jesus Christ in me.

And if I made a list every day of every wrong thought, every wrong word, every wrong thing I did because I'm not perfect in all I say and do... and focussed on that list... I just couldn't.

My heart always thinks about Jesus and His love.



It's like water off a duck's back. I forgive others... and I am forgiven.

4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Yes, it is all by the divine nature...

5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge;
6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness;
7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

[/QUOTE]

These are all good things that we are called to think about. We are called to think about what ever is good, noble, lovely, praiseworthy and of a good report.

I beleive, quite simply, in the most usual terms... we are called to be happy and positive and bright... and we will grow in all of these things.

It is not good to think about things that are bad, ignoble, unlovely, not constructive, and of a bad report. Because if we think like that... however a man thinketh in his heart... so is he.

So I think we must purify our hearts and motives by thinking about Jesus.

The Bible says that if we think about Jesus, God will garrison our minds with peace.

A "laundry list" of sin?

Though our sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow.

As we walk in the light even as He is in the light we have fellowship one with another and His blood cleanses us of all sin.

Holiness... begins... imo... as an attitude of the heart...

When the High Priest went into the Holy of holies and placed the blood on the altar... the sins of all the people were atoned for.

Jesus is our High Priest... the propitiation for our sins... and because of what Jesus has done... and the power of His blood... the power of sin and sin have been destroyed.

Satan himself has been destroyed.

Jesus has cast sin into the sea of forgetfulness, and removed them as far as the east from the west, and has covered them so fully that not even God can see them...

That's what I think about "practicing sin".

What sin?

Love in Christ,

Laura

[mikebr]

Why would you even think we believe such as that? Answer this for me though... what do you think Jesus saved us from? The power of sin or do you think Jesus saved us so we could continue in sin? Scripture says that sin has no power over us... what does that mean to you in context with the Scripture?

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Two major flaws in NOSAS theology as I see it(not that I'm right).

First Flaw- You seem to assume that people who don't believe that we can lose our salvation think that we can just go and do as we please. I can't but not in the way that you think I can't. I can't love everyone unconditionally that I come in contact with, I can't be the father, husband, brother, son, teacher, church member, (you get the point) that I want to be because I do sin. If I could do what I want I would be a much better person than I am. I was saved from sin, but if that means that I was saved from sinning then I ain't just not reading PP, I ain't saved. But I am saved, I am being saved and I will be saved not because I do better than 90% of the population but because of what Jesus did on Calvary. He didn't die to make me a better person, He died because I couldn't be a better person by keeping a bunch of rules. Heathens can keep a set of rules. When I come to the understanding that its ALL HIM and none of me I am set free from the guilt that comes with not adding up to your standards. I AM holy, and righteous because He made me that way not because of anything I've done. If you don't understand how a person who lives by the Grace of God on a daily basis and can be less of a sinner than I was when I was trying to earn my salvation then I am truly sorry. It is the rest spoken of in Hebrews 4.

Second flaw- I have serious issues with the Kingdom of God being the climax of my salvation. Jesus told the Pharisees that it was within them. I am living under the Reign of God right now. He is my King. The King just happens to be my Father. I am not waiting for some reward. Jesus is the Reward and I get Him now. You will have to prove in scripture that the Kingdom is just some distant heavenly existence. If I am only looking for that I am guilty of the same thing the Pharisees were guilty and the reason they missed Messiah. He rules and reigns in my heart right now. I am not my own, I have been bought with a price. I am a slave to righteousness yet I am radically, scandalously free. I cannot be something other than what I am. I choose to believe what He says about me. So yes those sins may keep me from experiencing His Kingdom, but they make me no less His creation, His child. My sin offends Him in the same way that my son's disobedience offends me. Not because he broke my rules but because my rules were set up so that he will be safe and sound and free to live. I don't love him any less.

[mikebr]

That right there is what I am saying... that it is His divine power working in me by grace, and mercy and love. It is Jesus in me.. the hope of glory. Yet not I live, but Christ lives in me.

I could never, Peter, "stop sinning"... imo... by "trying harder to stop sinning"... because I would be sin-conscious rather that focussed on God.

I believe it is the power of God's love that gives me faith... and with faith God is pleased.

The fruits of the Spirit are produced by the Spirit... the divine power of Jesus Christ in me.

And if I made a list every day of every wrong thought, every wrong word, every wrong thing I did because I'm not perfect in all I say and do... and focussed on that list... I just couldn't.

My heart always thinks about Jesus and His love.



It's like water off a duck's back. I forgive others... and I am forgiven.




Yes, it is all by the divine nature...

These are all good things that we are called to think about. We are called to think about what ever is good, noble, lovely, praiseworthy and of a good report.

I beleive, quite simply, in the most usual terms... we are called to be happy and positive and bright... and we will grow in all of these things.

It is not good to think about things that are bad, ignoble, unlovely, not constructive, and of a bad report. Because if we think like that... however a man thinketh in his heart... so is he.

So I think we must purify our hearts and motives by thinking about Jesus.

The Bible says that if we think about Jesus, God will garrison our minds with peace.

A "laundry list" of sin?

Though our sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow.

As we walk in the light even as He is in the light we have fellowship one with another and His blood cleanses us of all sin.

Holiness... begins... imo... as an attitude of the heart...

When the High Priest went into the Holy of holies and placed the blood on the altar... the sins of all the people were atoned for.

Jesus is our High Priest... the propitiation for our sins... and because of what Jesus has done... and the power of His blood... the power of sin and sin have been destroyed.

Satan himself has been destroyed.

Jesus has cast sin into the sea of forgetfulness, and removed them as far as the east from the west, and has covered them so fully that not even God can see them...

That's what I think about "practicing sin".

What sin?

Love in Christ,

Laura

Great post Laura.....................

[Redeemed by Grace]

Considering that PP is knowledgable with the Word, I'm going to venture to say that he's talking about the things that are laid out in the Scriptures as sin... adultery/fornication, murder/hate, lying, coveting, idolatry, etc. At least that's what I consider to be sins, sorry PP if I'm wrong about assuming that would be your answer too.

Proverbs 20:9
Who can say, "I have cleansed my heart,
I am pure from my sin"?


So, is any one sinless by what they do [or not do] this side of heaven?

[diffangle]

Proverbs 20:9
Who can say, "I have cleansed my heart,
I am pure from my sin"?


So, is any one sinless by what they do [or not do] this side of heaven?

Main Entry: 1prac·tice
Variant(s): also prac·tise /'prak-t&s/
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): prac·ticed also prac·tised; prac·tic·ing also prac·tis·ing
Etymology: Middle English practisen, from Middle French practiser, from Medieval Latin practizare, alteration of practicare, from practica practice, noun, from Late Latin practice, from Greek praktikE, from feminine of praktikos
transitive verb
1 a : CARRY OUT, APPLY <practice what you preach> b : to do or perform often, customarily, or habitually <practice politeness> c : to be professionally engaged in <practice medicine>
2 a : to perform or work at repeatedly so as to become proficient <practice the act> b : to train by repeated exercises <practice pupils in penmanship>


Hbr 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Psa 141:4Incline not my heart to [any] evil thing, to practise wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

Mic 2:1Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand.