OSAS: Why I believe it to be correct?

[The Parson]

Cant take this in circles. That would be counter productive to all of us but the verses you posted still need to be look at in light of the difference in the flesh and the soul. The flesh will continue to be sinful and has to be killed off daily and the soul saved cannot sin because it is born of God. (1st John 3:9)

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

There must be a seperation of flesh and spirit before we can comprehend what is saved and what is not.

1st John 3:4 = The Unsaved
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 = The Flesh
Galatians 5:19-21 = The Flesh

[diffangle]

[quote=The Parson;1336600]

So then we have believe, the devils also believe, and tremble. Is belief the only prerequisite for salvation? Or do we also have to believe, admit, accept, and confess....

What was required of the theif on the cross?

Here's some of your quotes from this thread...

In our conversations past you and I have discussed the "Know So" salvation. Right? You and I both agreed that we are saved simply because we know so.

Belief?

Yet it is by grace we are saved through faith. not of any type of works we can do because it is a gift of God. Neither is salvation a process.

The believer's in the seed parable had faith, for a while, but then fell away.

Cannot be seperated because it is the power of Salvation through the Gospel

Jhn 3:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[diffangle]

Here's a question I asked in another thread that was never addressed by the OSASer's... hopefully someone could address it here....

Why do the Scriptures continually tell the body of believer's to watch, be on guard, beware, stand firm, remember, hold fast, to not be led away with the wicked, to be diligent, endure to the end, etc. ?

Thanx

[Mograce2U]

Cant take this in circles. That would be counter productive to all of us but the verses you posted still need to be look at in light of the difference in the flesh and the soul. The flesh will continue to be sinful and has to be killed off daily and the soul saved cannot sin because it is born of God. (1st John 3:9)

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

There must be a seperation of flesh and spirit before we can comprehend what is saved and what is not.

1st John 3:4 = The Unsaved
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 = The Flesh
Galatians 5:19-21 = The Flesh

So where does unbelief reside - in the soul or in the flesh?

The only sin that can rob one of his salvation is to remain in or return to unbelief. No one's flesh can be saved apart from his soul, hence all die. It would seem that sin remains attached to the flesh so that unless the flesh dies, what is then resurrected; whether to damnation or to glory, depends on what condition his soul was in beforehand.

And just like death could not hold Jesus because eternal life was in Him, so must that eternal life be in us if we are to be raised to glory like Him. I may sin with my body (fornicate, steal, murder), but the sin that condemns me is what originates in heart not in body. And that sin is able to harden my heart against repentance and can lead me to fall away from the faith and back to unbelief. It is sin that deceives me which is why we must be quick to submit ourselves to God and repent so that we continue abiding in Christ. The key is in abiding or actually living this spiritual life.

My soul cannot be separated from my flesh that is bent on sin which is why we are in this spiritual battle til death do us part. But the victory is in Christ and the power is of the Spirit. So if I walk according to the things of the Spirit rather than the world, the flesh and the devil; I will overcome as that Life will be in abundance in me.

[mikebr]

Here's a question I asked in another thread that was never addressed by the OSASer's... hopefully someone could address it here....

Why do the Scriptures continually tell the body of believer's to watch, be on guard, beware, stand firm, remember, hold fast, to not be led away with the wicked, to be diligent, endure to the end, etc. ?

Thanx

I would challenge any of you who believe that God will take your salvation away to show us in any of Paul's writings where Paul told the people how to act before he told them who they were in Christ. Paul, like Jesus, admonished people to be what they were, not to be so that they could obtain. It must be a bitter life to know that you may or may not have your Father's love.

To answer your question though, eternal life is a quality of life not a quantity of life. Yes it will last forever but those who choose to live a life of sin will be miserable folks indeed. Therefore scripture tells us to be on guard, beware, stand firm, remember.....................because there is a better life for those who trust in Christ.

[ProjectPeter]

I would challenge any of you who believe that God will take your salvation away to show us in any of Paul's writings where Paul told the people how to act before he told them who they were in Christ. Paul, like Jesus, admonished people to be what they were, not to be so that they could obtain. It must be a bitter life to know that you may or may not have your Father's love.

To answer your question though, eternal life is a quality of life not a quantity of life. Yes it will last forever but those who choose to live a life of sin will be miserable folks indeed. Therefore scripture tells us to be on guard, beware, stand firm, remember.....................because there is a better life for those who trust in Christ.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men, nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
2 and all the brethren who are with me, to the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ,
4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
5 to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.
6 ¶I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

Then he lays down who he is and makes clear his authority in the rest of that chapter and the next one. Then he begins again.

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain -- if indeed it was in vain?


Naturally... he continues in that for quite a few words.

So are we done with the challenge now?

[TrustingFollower]

We seem to all be referring to the soul rightly so here. With that said we can all agree that none of us have seen one's soul in a physical being, only the body caring the soul.

The question is was Lucifer saved when he was an arch angel?

He was perfect in the eyes of God until he sinned and was thrown out of heaven. He fell to the earth and lost his eternal salvation and will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

This is a great example of how our souls can lose salvation. Satan was an angel in God's present and glory before he was cast out. If God can cast out one of his arch angels along with a third of the rest of the angels from heaven, what makes one think God would not do the same to our souls if we do not continue to follow his ways.

[The Parson]

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men, nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
2 and all the brethren who are with me, to the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ,
4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
5 to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.
6 ¶I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

Then he lays down who he is and makes clear his authority in the rest of that chapter and the next one. Then he begins again.

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain -- if indeed it was in vain?


Naturally... he continues in that for quite a few words.

So are we done with the challenge now?

I think we are ProPet... If this be the only major difference in belief I count it no great thing. If we were debating the power of the Blood of the Lamb, that indeed would break fellowship between myself and anyone who denied that Almighty Power.

I had entertained and actually believed at one time, shhh, don't tell anyone, that salvation could be lost but then I became persuaded with that child like faith I mentioned before that Paul was right... Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This my friends is my personal convictions... Your servant in Christ Jesus Folks...

[Mograce2U]

I would challenge any of you who believe that God will take your salvation away to show us in any of Paul's writings where Paul told the people how to act before he told them who they were in Christ. Paul, like Jesus, admonished people to be what they were, not to be so that they could obtain. It must be a bitter life to know that you may or may not have your Father's love.

To answer your question though, eternal life is a quality of life not a quantity of life. Yes it will last forever but those who choose to live a life of sin will be miserable folks indeed. Therefore scripture tells us to be on guard, beware, stand firm, remember.....................because there is a better life for those who trust in Christ.

(Heb 10:26-31 KJV) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. {28} He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: {29} Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? {30} For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. {31} It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I would say this is a bitter life. Bitter because the one who continues in willful sin has no assurance of anything but judgment to face from the hand of God. This is not merely chastening or early death or loss of reward. This is the result of the despising that caused Esau to sell his birthright and lose the blessing, and then his descendants became the enemies of God's people. Here is where their destiny is described:

(Isa 63:1-6 KJV) Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. {2} Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? {3} I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. {4} For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. {5} And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. {6} And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

Esau HAD the birthright then forsook it for a mess of pottage, by selling it. He did not "lose" it thru Jacob's trickery - he traded it fair and square for something he found more valuable - because the thing he sold meant nothing to him. But he did possess it, else he could not have sold it.

One cannot "lose" his salvation (thru ignorance), but if he deliberately casts it away thru willful sin and disobedience - what hope of salvation is there to give him? He ought rather to fear the judgment of God for this has the ability to turn him back to repentance and faith and the place of assurance and true hope.

(Isa 48:22 KJV) There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.

[diffangle]

We seem to all be referring to the soul rightly so here. With that said we can all agree that none of us have seen one's soul in a physical being, only the body caring the soul.

The question is was Lucifer saved when he was an arch angel?

He was perfect in the eyes of God until he sinned and was thrown out of heaven. He fell to the earth and lost his eternal salvation and will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

This is a great example of how our souls can lose salvation. Satan was an angel in God's present and glory before he was cast out. If God can cast out one of his arch angels along with a third of the rest of the angels from heaven, what makes one think God would not do the same to our souls if we do not continue to follow his ways.

Great question and point TF!

One cannot "lose" his salvation (thru ignorance), but if he deliberately casts it away thru willful sin and disobedience - what hope of salvation is there to give him? He ought rather to fear the judgment of God for this has the ability to turn him back to repentance and faith and the place of assurance and true hope.

Amein Robin.

[mikebr]

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men, nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
2 and all the brethren who are with me, to the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ,
4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
5 to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.
6 ¶I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

Then he lays down who he is and makes clear his authority in the rest of that chapter and the next one. Then he begins again.

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain -- if indeed it was in vain?


Naturally... he continues in that for quite a few words.

So are we done with the challenge now?

Not exactly PP. He seems to be speaking to those who would rather live under the law than Grace.

[ProjectPeter]

Not exactly PP. He seems to be speaking to those who would rather live under the law than Grace.

Here is what you asked.

"show us in any of Paul's writings where Paul told the people how to act before he told them who they were in Christ"

I showed that right?

[markedward]

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

These may have been quoted before, but I'm just now jumping into the fray. What bearing do these passages have on "once saved-always saved"? If you ask me, whereas the other verses speak of how no outside force can make a person lose their salvation in Christ, these ones show that a person can still give it up according to their own free will. Of course, it makes you wonder who would want to, but these passages show that it is a possibility for a person to give up their salvation willingly, as opposed to unwillingly losing it to an outside force.

[diffangle]

I would challenge any of you who believe that God will take your salvation away to show us in any of Paul's writings where Paul told the people how to act before he told them who they were in Christ. Paul, like Jesus, admonished people to be what they were, not to be so that they could obtain.

Jhn 5:14Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Jhn 8:11She said, No man, Master. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


Hbr 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

It must be a bitter life to know that you may or may not have your Father's love.

No bitterness here... it's called having a healthy fear that all believer's should have.

Pro 9:10The fear of YHWH [is] the beginning of wisdom

Pro 10:27The fear of YHWH prolongeth days

Pro 14:26In the fear of YHWH [is] strong confidence

Pro 14:27The fear of YHWH [is] a fountain of life

Pro 16:6By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of YHWH [men] depart from evil.

To answer your question though, eternal life is a quality of life not a quantity of life. Yes it will last forever but those who choose to live a life of sin will be miserable folks indeed. Therefore scripture tells us to be on guard, beware, stand firm, remember.....................because there is a better life for those who trust in Christ.

Who's "us"? Believer's? Why would believer's need to be warned about sin if we will always remain saved? What do believer's "fall away" from?

[9Marksfan]

Jhn 5:14Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

The chastening hand of God?

Who's "us"? Believer's? Why would believer's need to be warned about sin if we will always remain saved? What do believer's "fall away" from?

The point about these warning verses is that the Bible NOWHERE teaches passive fatalism - in the same way that we can NEVER say "I don't need to evangelise - God will save His elect anyway" or "I don't need to believe, if I'm elect, I'll be saved anyway", so we can NEVER say "I don't need to persevere, if I'm saved, I'll just lose my reward" is possibly the biggest deception Satan has propagated in the evangelical church over the past forty years or so (possibly longer). God uses MEANS - we are saved THROUGH FAITH, we are preserved THROUGH OUR PERSEVERANCE - of course it's all of HIs grace, but passivity is NEVER sanctioned in Scripture! Those who are passive (like the man who buried his talent) will be those who are cast into the outer darkness. "He who endures to the end will be saved".