OSAS: Why I believe it to be correct?

[mikebr]

Part One:
For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish." Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and take counsel whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks terms of peace.

Would God begin a building project that He couldn't finish? If you are the temple can you be condemned?

[matthew94]

I don't think these 2 brief parables serve your point for at least a few reasons. In fact, they serve the opposite point!

1. The parables are not about eternal security, but about counting the cost of discipleship. The implication is that if you're going to follow Jesus, you'd best realize what you're getting into beforehand. Failure to prepare will result in defeat which implies defeat is possible.

For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish."

2. Even if this parable was about eternal security, it wouldn't speak to the eternal security of individual members, but to the security of the church in general. In every building project, individual pieces of the project are lost/broken. God will finish the building project with or without any individual piece. We, collectively, are the temple, not each individual! Of course, it's not about eternal security to begin with. It's about counting the cost, and it's implied that there's a danger in 'starting' a building but not finishing the project.

Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and take counsel whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks terms of peace.

3. Once again, even if the parable was about eternal security, it would be speaking of the security of the entire church. In every war, individual members are indeed lost, but a good king will win the war despite the casualties. God's kingdom will be the only remaining kingdom at the end of time, but that doesn't speak to the survival rate of individual soldiers. Of course, it's not about security, but the cost of discipleship, and it's implied that one could start a war, but not be able to finish in victory.

Interestingly enough, in the very next verse Jesus says

"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.

Seemingly, this is a reference to an individual who has not counted the cost. He was salt, but then he loses his saltiness. He is thrown out.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

[Baerly]

Part One:
For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish." Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and take counsel whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks terms of peace.

Would God begin a building project that He couldn't finish? If you are the temple can you be condemned?

You know the temple was once destroyed by Jesus. Just one thing to think about.

It also seems that you have been taught it is Jesus doing all the work in us. "If" that be so,what about the scripture which says

"Save Yourselves" - (Acts 2:40)

Just something to think about.

One other thing,Have you ever done a good study on the word "IF" in the New Testament? It is very interesting.

Why would Jesus warn people about falling from grace,"IF" it could not happen? (Gal.5:4) (1Cor.10) (Acts 8:22) (2Peter 2:20-22) (1John 1:7-9) (2Peter 1:10).

Just another thought to think about.

in love Baerly

[justsurfing]

Part One:
For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish." Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and take counsel whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks terms of peace.

Would God begin a building project that He couldn't finish? If you are the temple can you be condemned?

Hi mike,

I mean, we could go all into this that and the other.

But how simple, really, is it?

Will God ever condemn Jesus Christ?

Course not.

Jesus is in me. End of all questions.

Jesus is Life. I have Jesus. I have eternal life.

Period.

One has to focus on the flesh to think any NOSAS.

Jesus.

No question. I have eternal life. I have Jesus.

OSAS.

God's love in the Lord Jesus Christ is forever.

Romans 8:1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Hallelujah!!!

He lives in me!!! I have eternal life. I have Jesus. The Spirit of God who raised Jesus from the dead is living in me!!!

Hallelujah!!!

(Seeing as how I don't have to worry about "losing salvation"... I am free to focus on growing in grace... which is how we grow.)

Love in Christ,
js

[karenoka27]

What about these verses for OSAS?

Ephesians 1:13-"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

John 10:28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

A seal could not be undone by just anyone..only to the person it was meant for...

Revelation 5:2-"And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?"

Revelation 5:6-"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,"

Revelation 5:9-"Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

[The Parson]

Hey, just a note from your friendly neighborhood Parson. This is one of those subjects that can get heated if allowed to do so. Keep it kewl ya'll. OkeyDokey???

[The Parson]

Now suppose that while my dad was alive, I gave him so much trouble and brought so much shame to him that he took me to court to take away my sonship. Interesting concept, ain't it?

So the judge examines all the evidence and says to dad, "yeah, that boy has been a terrible son, I hereby declare he is no longer your son"... Interesting thought. It would take away any benifits I may have as my fathers son but alas, there is one thing the judge couldn't change that would make me not be my dad's son... Care to guess what that would be???

[karenoka27]

Now suppose that while my dad was alive, I gave him so much trouble and brought so much shame to him that he took me to court to take away my sonship. Interesting concept, ain't it?

So the judge examines all the evidence and says to dad, "yeah, that boy has been a terrible son, I hereby declare he is no longer your son"... Interesting thought. It would take away any benifits I may have as my fathers son but alas, there is one thing the judge couldn't change that would make me not be my dad's son... Care to guess what that would be???

Yes...OSAS! sorry...continue on...

[TrustingFollower]

Now suppose that while my dad was alive, I gave him so much trouble and brought so much shame to him that he took me to court to take away my sonship. Interesting concept, ain't it?

So the judge examines all the evidence and says to dad, "yeah, that boy has been a terrible son, I hereby declare he is no longer your son"... Interesting thought. It would take away any benifits I may have as my fathers son but alas, there is one thing the judge couldn't change that would make me not be my dad's son... Care to guess what that would be???

Your fathers blood would still be your blood, but you could lose your inheritance. We are all still children of God, but not all will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:13-14 tells us that many will claim to be Christian, but in fact only few will actually see the kingdom.

13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

[karenoka27]

Yes, many do "claim" to be Christians..it's easy to say you are a Christian..but only God knows the heart. Just let persecution come to America and we'll see who the Christians aren't...."Oh you mean that kind of Christian, that follows Jesus Christ? Oh I'm not one of those.."

But that is not the same as one who has truly accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior..(like I have..) and I don't believe there is anything that I could do that could undo what Christ has done for me...I may lose out on blessings but not eternal life.

[AskSeekKnock]

I also believe in OSAS...I do believe it has to do with the loss of rewards not your salvation...

If a believer in Christ Jesus truly gave their life over to Him, will be truly transformed. Evidence will follow them...

Those that give lip service I believe are the ones that on the day of their judgment, are the ones that get turned away...

[TrustingFollower]

Oh but why the warnings like Hebrews 2:1?

1For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it.

[mikebr]

1. The parables are not about eternal security, but about counting the cost of discipleship. The implication is that if you're going to follow Jesus, you'd best realize what you're getting into beforehand. Failure to prepare will result in defeat which implies defeat is possible.

I in no way intended to say that these verses said anything about eternal security but they certainly say something about God's character. Is God a foolish builder or a wise builder who counted the cost before starting a work in you?

Is God omniscient or not? Seems to me that He that began a good work in me will complete it?

[mikebr]

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

A gift that requires that I do something to keep it is not a gift, its a trade. I am exchanging slavery for life. You work you get life you don't you get death.

[karenoka27]

Philippians 1:6-"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

Amen...

I realize that there are two differing opinions here..however, I believe with all of my heart that Christ died once for my sins..not over and over again, therefore I don't believe I can lose my salvation and then get it back again...
But because I believe that I am eternally saved from the moment of my salvation, I have no desire to go back into the world and live for it..I have made a choice..to live for Jesus Christ..no turning back..no turning back...

1 Peter 3:18-"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

Question: do NOSAS believers...believe that once they lose their salvation they can never again attain it? If they do wouldn't that have to be by works? How else could someone come back? and yet we are not saved by works but by grace and it is a gift..God is not an indian giver..I can't imagine he would take back what He gave...Jesus Christ.