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Thread: "I die daily" means what?

  1. #1
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    "I die daily" means what?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShirleyFord
    describing our old sinful nature that the Bible sometimes refers to the flesh. We are commanded to continually die to the flesh and crucify it. Paul said, "I die daily." He couldn't have meant that he died daily physically. He couldn't have meant that he died spiritually. He had been made alive spiritually from spiritual death through the new birth when God saved him and His Spirit moved into Paul's spirit.

    No, Paul is referring to sanctification.


    This is merely a case of relying upon a poor translation rather than really studying and undrstanding what was said in the original langauge.


    ******************

    Have you ever heard of modern doctrines that teach something about "dying to self" or something similar? It may sound intriguing but is it scriptural?

    1Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
    1Cr 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we die.

    They might use these verses and suggest that Paul "died" to his carnal self etc but is that really what Paul was teaching?

    (ALT) [I affirm] by my boasting [or, pride] in you* which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily [or, every day I am in danger of death].

    (CEV) If the dead are not going to be raised to life, what will people do who are being baptized for them? Why are they being baptized for those dead people? And why do we always risk our lives and face death every day? The pride that I have in you because of Christ Jesus our Lord is what makes me say this. What do you think I gained by fighting wild animals in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised to life, "Let's eat and drink. Tomorrow we die."

    (GNB) My friends, I face death every day! The pride I have in you, in our life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord, makes me declare this.

    (GW) Brothers and sisters, I swear to you on my pride in you which Christ Jesus our Lord has given me: I face death every day.

    (ISV) I face death every day! That is as certain, brothers, as it is that I am proud of you in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    (MSG) I look death in the face practically every day I live. Do you think I'd do this if I wasn't convinced of your resurrection and mine as guaranteed by the resurrected Messiah Jesus?

    (NLT) If the dead will not be raised, then what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again? And why should we ourselves be continually risking our lives, facing death hour by hour? For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what the Lord Jesus Christ has done in you. And what value was there in fighting wild beasts-those men of Ephesus*-if there will be no resurrection from the dead? If there is no resurrection, "Let's feast and get drunk, for tomorrow we die!"

    Its pretty simple. Paul was merely saying he faced death on a daily basis and he wouldn't be doing that if he didn't truly believe that he would be resurrected after dying. If there was no afterlife, then there would be no reason to risk his life so much.

    I Corinthians 15:32 "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."

    Paul is quoting from Isaiah 22:13; "And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: "let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die."

    This was at a time when men did fight beasts in the arena, and they fought for their very lives. Paul is saying that if He didn't believe that Christ was raised from the dead, his life would have little more importance that the sweet victory that came from one of these fights. It would be a time of eating, drinking and making merry for when you died that would be it. But he says that that is not the case.

    Christ did die and He is resurrected, and there is a purpose for facing death in preaching the gospel. It is worth it all.

    While the concept of symbolically "dying" to your own personal desires is a valid concept it is not what Paul was talking about in these verses.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

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    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    Naphal,

    I understand how you got here from an ETC topic, but as is stands this post is better suited to Bible Chat. Can you tie it back into end times?
    It's really only related to the end times because it's being taught as a new "die to yourself" new age type of doctrine but I think it's better in bible chat. Thanks.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

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    I am not familar with the new age twist on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    I am not familar with the new age twist on this.
    They take the misleading translation of "I die daily" and teach then that Paul is dying to self, to desires, to his carnal self and teach then that we should as well. It gets pretty new-agey in certain circles when the truth of the matter is that Paul was simply talking about how he faced death daily, not dying daily.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    While the concept of symbolically "dying" to your own personal desires is a valid concept it is not what Paul was talking about in these verses.
    I never got the impression that the dying to self concept came from the 1 Cor passage, but from the passages in Matthew, Mark and Luke where Jesus tells his disciples to deny or disown (YLT) themselves and take up their cross and follow Him.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a new age twist and how it's different from the Biblical concept. Could you explain that further?
    Our destiny is to find our identity within the circumference of His identity--to express His nature, character, etc. ever revealing more of Him. ~ R&D Prinzing

  6. #6
    punk Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    They take the misleading translation of "I die daily" and teach then that Paul is dying to self, to desires, to his carnal self and teach then that we should as well. It gets pretty new-agey in certain circles when the truth of the matter is that Paul was simply talking about how he faced death daily, not dying daily.
    You can slander it by calling it "new age", but understanding that Paul is speaking of dying to the self and destroying the ego goes to the earliest Christian exegeses.

    It is certainly older than any Protestant teaching by a long while.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
    Could you explain that further?
    I don't think I can.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

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    Quote Originally Posted by punk View Post
    You can slander it by calling it "new age", but understanding that Paul is speaking of dying to the self and destroying the ego goes to the earliest Christian exegeses.
    Again, it has been shown that Paul was in no way speaking of such a concept.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

  9. #9
    Very interesting Naphal. I initially was under the assumption that it did indeed relate to personal desires. I'll have to do a bit of studying regarding the initial texts to get further understanding regarding this.

  10. #10
    punk Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    Again, it has been shown that Paul was in no way speaking of such a concept.
    I read your post, but failed to see any such demonstration.

    Maybe you could be clearer?

    But to look at the text:

    29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
    "Let us eat and drink,
    for tomorrow we die."[d] 33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.


    He says he didn't fight wild beasts for merely human reasons.

    Then for what reasons?

    Well what are human reasons? Those are precisely the sorts of things we die to ourselves to eliminate. In dying daily Paul dies to the merely human and as such no longer acts for human reasons.

    Human reasons are sin, and we should stop sinning, and to do that we must die to ourselves and act for super-human or in-human reasons.

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    But then the rub is the two verses after the ones you speak of.

    1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."
    34 Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

    What did Paul do here by tossing this in this particular part of his writing?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    It's really only related to the end times because it's being taught as a new "die to yourself" new age type of doctrine but I think it's better in bible chat. Thanks.
    There is nothing "new age" about these Scriptures that speak of our old nature, our flesh, and what we are to do about it:

    Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others

    Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

    2 Pet 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

    Mt 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    Mk 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

    Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

    Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

    Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

    Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

    1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    .2 Cor 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

    2 Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    2 Cor 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

    Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

    Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

    Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

    Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

    Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

    Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

    Gal 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

    Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

    Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Phil 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

    Phil 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

    Phil 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

    Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

    Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

    Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    1 Pet 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;


    2 Pet 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

    Pet 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

    1 Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.




    Shirley

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by friend of I am View Post
    Very interesting Naphal. I initially was under the assumption that it did indeed relate to personal desires. I'll have to do a bit of studying regarding the initial texts to get further understanding regarding this.
    If you read the text in context you will see that Paul is not speaking of such a concept whatsoever. I agree that the concept is mentioned elsewhere but not here.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

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    to die daily means to daily deny your selfish motives in your daily behaviors ...as aposed to behaving by the motives that the spirit God has put in the heart of His children

    by letting His spirit motivate your daily behaviors you will be dieng to your old selfish nature, all of Gods obedient children have to do this daily to serve with a pure heart.
    ...this isnt to say that you are not a child of God if you do not do this daily, but it is saying that you are selfish servant and disobedient child of God unless you do this daily.

    God bless you.

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    when I think of to die daily I automatically think of:
    john 3:30-"He must increase, but I must decrease."

    I believe every day we should be leaving old things behind us reaching forward to our destiny, eternal life, I believe we should not be conformed to the world but be transformed into the image of Christ.

    Every day...less of me...more of Him
    .................The message of the cross divides the human race." ~MW~

    ........ ... " LORD, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant..."
    .................................................. .................................................. ...Nehemiah 1:11a




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