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Brotherken
Sep 15th 2007, 05:22 PM
I see that question everywhere.

"Is it a Sin to do this?"

Well?

It could be a sin
Do you think its is?
Well Then. it It is a sin

Someone asked Is it a Sin to Drink "Red Bull"?

I had to Laugh at that one

I mean Come On!

If we are Christians we are Free! We want to do good.

Here is a Quote from my newest Favorite Bible teacher



Do you know why most Christians don’t get any better or why you don’t get any better? It’s because you’re doing it wrong, dummy! You are obsessed with sin and your faith has become another “system of laws” whereby you feel guilty and try and try and try to do better. It doesn’t work, never has worked, and never will work. Only really shallow people keep doing the same thing over and over again with the same result, thinking that the next time the result will be different.
So stop it.
You’re just making a mess out of it. People get better by obsessing on Jesus and his love…not by obsessing on their own sin and disobedience. That’s what the cross is about, to wit, a covering for sin. So that’s not the issue anymore. Not only that, the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to our account is a gift beyond measure assuring that God’s anger will never be directed at us again.
And, by the way, an obsession with sin may be the greatest form of pride. Frankly, it is quite narcissistic. (If you’re going to get neurotic on me, that’s a good place to start.)
So, not only does the Christian get three free sins…Christians get unlimited free sins! (Free to us because they are all forgiven…but not free to God.) And, not only that, I don’t know a better way to get people thinking about God’s unbelievable love and grace than by granting them what he has already granted. The gift one receives along with “free sins” is the gift of an unbelievable, amazing and surprising faithfulness.

Now Donn't get him wrong (like I did at 1st)
He is Not saying we are to go out and Sin. Cause as Crhistians we would not want to do that...I think Thats his Point...

I don't know how to explain it
I Don't have the gift of teaching
But I do care bout Folks
and want them all to relize we are forgiven

If you wanna check out this Bible teachers stuff go Here

http://Keylife.org
and here
http://stevebrownetc.com/

Vickilynn
Sep 15th 2007, 05:25 PM
Shalom Brother Ken,

I think we are simply misunderstanding the question they ask.

Here is the answer:

1 Corinthians 6

12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

Brotherken
Sep 15th 2007, 05:45 PM
Shalom Brother Ken,

I think we are simply misunderstanding the question they ask.

Here is the answer:

1 Corinthians 6

12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.


Hiya Vicki :)

So,
As Christians these things are no longer Sins?
Because all things are Lawful
Of Course as Christians we want to Do What Is Good and what is Right
But we Don't need to obsessed with every tiny little thing
I know there is a Battle and we need to keep our thoughts Pure and keep our Flesh in Check and Have self control
I try my best to do that and I pray for His Help doing that.

There has to be a "Happy Medium" Here somewhere:hmm:

Jesusinmyheart
Sep 15th 2007, 05:52 PM
There is no happy medium! It's either His way or my way.
We all know what happens to those that are lukewarm.....
We only have this one short life to figure it out.

Shalom my friend,
Tanja

Brother Mark
Sep 15th 2007, 05:55 PM
Hiya Vicki :)

So,
As Christians these things are no longer Sins?
Because all things are Lawful
Of Course as Christians we want to Do What Is Good and what is Right
But we Don't need to obsessed with every tiny little thing
I know there is a Battle and we need to keep our thoughts Pure and keep our Flesh in Check and Have self control
I try my best to do that and I pray for His Help doing that.

There has to be a "Happy Medium" Here somewhere:hmm:

It's called balance Ken. We don't allow any ordinary thing to become our master. Let us not be addicted to red bull. But we can use it in moderation. ;)

Of course, I would also add not to use it if it is unhealthy.

Vickilynn
Sep 15th 2007, 05:57 PM
Hiya Vicki :)

Shalom Ken, Hiya back!!!

Hey, my name is Vickilynn, but my family in Messiah calls me VL. :D Thanks!


So,
As Christians these things are no longer Sins?And what "these things" specifically are you talking about?
Your OP was very general.

If you are talking about something specific, let's look at it in the WORD and see if it is a sin or not.

And I believe that we SHOULD be concerned with living right before the L-rd. I believe that is a good use of our time and effort.

Brotherken
Sep 15th 2007, 06:00 PM
There is no happy medium! It's either His way or my way.
We all know what happens to those that are lukewarm.....
We only have this one short life to figure it out.

Shalom my friend,
Tanja

Yeah, They Get spit out

But "all things are Lawful"

What I meant by "Happy medium" was That we don't have to be obsessed with every Letter of the Law any more.
While we Try to do what is right.

It doesn't work

We have Jesus

He did the work for us

Brotherken
Sep 15th 2007, 06:03 PM
It's called balance Ken. We don't allow any ordinary thing to become our master. Let us not be addicted to red bull. But we can use it in moderation. ;)

Of course, I would also add not to use it if it is unhealthy.

Brother Mark;
I agree Moderation is the Key To Many things:)

Vickilynn
Sep 15th 2007, 06:04 PM
Yeah, They Get spit out

But "all things are Lawful"

What I meant by "Happy medium" was That we don't have to be obsessed with every Letter of the Law any more.
While we Try to do what is right.

It doesn't work

We have Jesus

He did the work for us

Shalom Ken,

Is murder lawful?

Vickilynn
Sep 15th 2007, 06:05 PM
It's called balance Ken. We don't allow any ordinary thing to become our master. Let us not be addicted to red bull. But we can use it in moderation. ;)

Of course, I would also add not to use it if it is unhealthy.

Shalom Mark,

Ding ding ding ding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
You win the ribbon!
Right on Brother! :pp

Edited: and I wouldn't use it if the L-rd convicted me NOT to use it. I must obey Him.

Brotherken
Sep 15th 2007, 06:08 PM
Shalom Ken, Hiya back!!!

Hey, my name is Vickilynn, but my family in Messiah calls me VL. :D Thanks!

And what "these things" specifically are you talking about?
Your OP was very general.

If you are talking about something specific, let's look at it in the WORD and see if it is a sin or not.

And I believe that we SHOULD be concerned with living right before the L-rd. I believe that is a good use of our time and effort.

VL
I Agree and I think we know and the Holy sprit tells what is Right and Good. :)

I just worry that some people are beating them selfs up.
And others are trying to do it all under there own power (like I was)

By "These things" I meant every thing

What was meant by "All things are Lawful"?

They are no longer sins?

Vickilynn
Sep 15th 2007, 06:12 PM
Shalom Ken, Hiya back!!!

Hey, my name is Vickilynn, but my family in Messiah calls me VL. :D Thanks!

And what "these things" specifically are you talking about?
Your OP was very general.

If you are talking about something specific, let's look at it in the WORD and see if it is a sin or not.

And I believe that we SHOULD be concerned with living right before the L-rd. I believe that is a good use of our time and effort.


I Agree and I think we know and the Holy sprit tells what is Right and Good. :)

I just worry that some people are beating them selfs up.
And others are trying to do it all under there own power (like I was)


By "These things" I meant every thing

What was meant by "All things are Lawful"?

They are no longer sins?Shalom Brother Ken,

No, not everything is no longer sin.
Sin remains sin.
That's why I asked you if you believe that "murder" is now lawful?
It's not.

I posted that verse and you picked it up and ran with it, but I feel it is being misused. The things that are "lawful" now are the things of personal conviction, not the things that G-d has set down as sins, such as murder.

You see the difference? Murder is still sin. Going to church on Sunday is not.

Brotherken
Sep 15th 2007, 06:20 PM
[quote=Brotherken;1382485]

Shalom Brother Ken,

No, not everything is no longer sin.
Sin remains sin.
That's why I asked you if you believe that "murder" is now lawful?
It's not.

I posted that verse and you picked it up and ran with it, but I feel it is being misused. The things that are "lawful" now are the things of personal conviction, not the things that G-d has set down as sins, such as murder.

You see the difference? Murder is still sin. Going to church on Sunday is not.

Ok VL

Point taken and Understood.
Thank you for that. I was misunderstanding that passage I suppose

Not That I would have committed Murder Because I thought it was lawful for me.

I Know wrong from right
It is written on my heart.

Tanya~
Sep 15th 2007, 07:08 PM
I find that it is very helpful to consider verses like this in their context. I think Paul's comments about all things being lawful are specifically in reference to foods and not intended to be applied to other things such as immorality. The reason is that immediately prior to making that comment, he had just told the Corinthians that immoral behavior would keep people from inheriting the kingdom of heaven. This passage cannot be used to suggest (for example) that thievery is lawful for Christians.

1 Cor 6:9-20
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh." 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
Paul repeats the refrain a few chapters later. In this context it becomes even more clear that he is talking about foods:

1 Cor 10:23-33

All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being.

25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience' sake; 26 for "the earth is the LORD's, and all its fullness."

27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth is the LORD's, and all its fullness." 29 "Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?

31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
Another passage that might help with understanding how the law is to be understood for Christians is this one:

1 Tim 1:5-11
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.
In another place, Paul said, "you are not under law but under grace." People often will misinterpret that to say a believer isn't under any kind of Biblical requirement to live a godly life, but the context of that verse tells us the opposite. Romans 6 is all about the believer's obligation to live a godly rather than a sinful life. Because we are under grace and not under law, we CAN and are EXPECTED to live a godly life. To be 'under law' as Paul meant it in that verse is to be in a continual, losing battle against sin. He talks about that in Romans 7. To be under grace is to be empowered because of the death of Christ for our sins and because we have the Holy Spirit. He talks about that in Romans 6 and 8.

But RED BULL?? :lol: Yeah. It's lawful. For you. The stuff would probably be the death of me!

Vickilynn
Sep 15th 2007, 07:09 PM
[quote=Vickilynn;1382489]

Ok VL

Point taken and Understood.
Thank you for that. I was misunderstanding that passage I suppose

Not That I would have committed Murder Because I thought it was lawful for me.

I Know wrong from right
It is written on my heart.

Shalom Brother Ken,

Amen, the Holy Spirit will lead you and tell you wrong form right.
And, as I posted in another thread, the L-rd is faithful and just to forgive us. Your tender heart blesses me!!

1 John 1:
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Jesusinmyheart
Sep 15th 2007, 11:24 PM
What I meant by "Happy medium" was That we don't have to be obsessed with every Letter of the Law any more.
While we Try to do what is right.

It doesn't work

We have Jesus

He did the work for us

He died for us, to atone for our shortcomings, yes, but He did not live the Law so we wouldn't have to.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I don't live by the letter of the Law, but i live by the Spirit, and try to do as He teaches me. I hope that makes it easier to understand my position.

Peace to you my friend,
Tanja

Brotherken
Sep 16th 2007, 06:27 PM
Thanks Tanja :)

Brotherken
Sep 16th 2007, 06:31 PM
Romans 7
6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? May it never be! However, I wouldn't have known sin, except through the law. For I wouldn't have known coveting, unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

8 But sin, finding occasion through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of coveting. For apart from the law, sin is dead.

9 I was alive apart from the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 The commandment, which was for life, this I found to be for death;

11 for sin, finding occasion through the commandment, deceived me, and through it killed me.

12 Therefore the law indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good.

13 Did then that which is good become death to me? May it never be! But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good; that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin.

15 For I don't know what I am doing. For I don't practice what I desire to do; but what I hate, that I do.

16 But if what I don't desire, that I do, I consent to the law that it is good.

17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.

18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing. For desire is present with me, but I don't find it doing that which is good.

19 For the good which I desire, I don't do; but the evil which I don't desire, that I practice.

20 But if what I don't desire, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the law, that, to me, while I desire to do good, evil is present.

22 For I delight in God's law after the inward man,

23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members.

24 What a wretched man I am! Who will deliver me out of the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ, our Lord! So then with the mind, I myself serve God's law, but with the flesh, the sin's law.


I have always been drawn to these pasagages
Im not sure I have ever fully understood them.
But they seem to comfort me

xSTEADFASTx
Sep 16th 2007, 07:20 PM
i drink red bulls.

i never really feel a conviction about it.

I dont see anything wrong with it.

Jesusinmyheart
Sep 16th 2007, 07:46 PM
Brotherken,

allow me to give you my take on these verses, especially the bolded ones:


6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.Being discharged from the Law to me means i'm now not under condemnation (i.e having to fear punishment of the crime/sin committed) because where i fall short Yeshua has me covered.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.


9 I was alive apart from the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Sin brings condemnation, which brings death. The sin was shown/pointed out by the Law. It served to point out that sin, and show us our condemnation and punishment/"reward" for our crime.



12 Therefore the law indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good. The Law/instructions are good, a lamp to one's feet if they are written in your heart.

What happens when you read the Law, is first you realize your wrongdoing, then you have remorse, guilt, and finally and hopefully repentance setting in. After that you will try and follow that Law, this makes it written on your heart. This only happens when you love God with all your heart.


Maybe this helps putting all of the above verses in perspective.

Peace to you Brotherken.

Tanja

Jesusinmyheart
Sep 16th 2007, 08:40 PM
I would like to add to the above with something i was told:

First we must want to please the Father. First by believing in Him and wanting to know Who He is and What pleases Him, and then by knowing His expectation of obedience is high, and His punishment will follow our disobedience in order to turn us towards Him.

This pretty much sums it up for me.. and isn't that really what we expect from our own children ? I know i do.

Peace to you my friend,
Tanja

mikebr
Sep 16th 2007, 09:13 PM
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Jesusinmyheart
Sep 16th 2007, 10:17 PM
I believe the new covenant is still happening, it's not completely established, neither is the old one completely gone.

Does everyone truly know God now ? Does everyone have the Law written in their hearts ?
Do we all have every single Law written into our hearts ?

I know i'm still lacking... i know the Law is being written onto my heart, but it's not going to happen from today to tomorrow.

Luk 13:3 Not at all, I tell you; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

God is gracious to forgive, but we still have a requirement to repent and change turning from our wicked ways.

Or who of you thinks that God would forgive your sins without a word of "i'm sorry" along with the deeds to back it up ?
God is not mocked.

Gal 6:4 But let each person examine his own work, and then he will have boasting in himself alone, and not in the other.
Gal 6:5 For each one shall bear his own load.
Gal 6:6 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for what a man sows, this also he will reap.
Gal 6:8 For he who sows to his flesh, from his own flesh will reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap everlasting life.
Gal 6:9 And while we do good, let us not lose heart, for in due season we shall reap if we do not become weary.

Peace to you my friend,
Tanja