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walked
Sep 23rd 2007, 02:51 PM
I'm not crafted into Christ but grafted by Christ into Gods blessings and promises to the house of Adam, Noah and Abraham.
The Olive tree, Gods loved/chosen people Israel.
Who were blessed by God to be a blessing to the nations,
who were blessed by God with His instructions and revelations to grow toward Himself.
Me as a Gentile believer am adopted into Gods Family/fellowship through Christ.
I pose that when we Gentiles receive the Gospel that Christ Jesus was the Son of God and that through His work on earth we will be restored to our Creator. When we except and receive this we are grafted in to the promises of God to the house of Adam, Noah and Abraham.
And we are no longer under the promises/curses of God that the house's of the Gentiles are under, Gentile houses being Cain and Ham but, fathered by Adam also.

I also pose that the dogs at the Masters table waiting for portions to fall off the table, are if fact:
The dogs at the Masters table=house's of the Gentiles
The table of the Master = house of Israel
The Master of the table = almighty God the Creator

Teke
Sep 24th 2007, 02:53 PM
Of course that is all metaphor, as there is no difference with God. If your born a human being, then your part of humanity without being "grafted in".

walked
Sep 24th 2007, 03:42 PM
Of course that is all metaphor, as there is no difference with God. If your born a human being, then your part of humanity without being "grafted in".

But I'm not pointing to Christ grafting me into humanity, I was born into humanity with out Christ.
By Christ I am grafted into His promise to Adam, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isac and Jacob.
My humanity seals and guaranties me nothing but a second death.
My grafting in to the promises to His chosen people seals and guaranties my restoration to fellowship with Him.

AlainaJ
Sep 24th 2007, 03:50 PM
1. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

2. God through Paul send the gospel to the gentiles.

3. All human beings now have to recieve salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

4. The Church or Body of Christ is mad up off all born again beleivers, Jew, Gentile or Greek etc........

Graffed means to attach as to become one. When you graff a branch into another tree, the branch BECOMES part of that tree. It is that tree.:)

Rom.3 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5023607)

[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

1Cor.12 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5107422)

[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. One Spirit, One body and one church- through faith in Jesus, alone.

Rom.11 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5051792)

[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, (jews, broken off) and thou, being a wild olive tree,(gentiles) wert graffed in among them, (one tree now)and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; All drink from one root- the root of Jesus:pp

God Bless
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? At first the gentioles were not partakers of the Kingdom of God. But, they are now gaffted in. The Jews can also be saved, but it must be through Jesus Christ...

Teke
Sep 24th 2007, 03:59 PM
But I'm not pointing to Christ grafting me into humanity, I was born into humanity with out Christ.
By Christ I am grafted into His promise to Adam, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isac and Jacob.
My humanity seals and guaranties me nothing but a second death.
My grafting in to the promises to His chosen people seals and guaranties my restoration to fellowship with Him.

So you mean this is not metaphorical to you.
Are you moving to Israel or do you already live there?

Vickilynn
Sep 24th 2007, 04:36 PM
Shalom Walked,

Good words, though not everyone has spiritual eyes to see what you're saying and the message is offensive to some Christians. They don't want to be associated with anything "Jewish" even though that's what the Scriptures say Christians are grated in with.

Some Christians want to erase these words:
Galatians 3:29
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

And you are correct, Gentiles are grafted into to the root, which is Yeshua Jesus, alongside the natural branches (now Believing) which are Jews. Not to replace the Jews, but to be chosen ALONGSIDE them, part of them.

Romans 11

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,

Sometimes, they forget these words as well:

18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
19Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith.
So do not become proud, but fear.
21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Vickilynn
Sep 24th 2007, 04:38 PM
So you mean this is not metaphorical to you.
Are you moving to Israel or do you already live there?

Shalom,
One does not need to "move to Israel" to rightly understand that Believing Gentiles are grafted into the Olive tree alongside Believing Jews.

We all ALL be in Israel one day, but for now, that is not necessary.

Vickilynn
Sep 24th 2007, 04:39 PM
But I'm not pointing to Christ grafting me into humanity, I was born into humanity with out Christ.
By Christ I am grafted into His promise to Adam, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isac and Jacob.
My humanity seals and guaranties me nothing but a second death.
My grafting in to the promises to His chosen people seals and guaranties my restoration to fellowship with Him.

Shalom Walked,

AMEN!

This bears repeating:

Galatians 3:29
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

Teke
Sep 24th 2007, 04:49 PM
Shalom,
One does not need to "move to Israel" to rightly understand that Believing Gentiles are grafted into the Olive tree alongside Believing Jews.

We all ALL be in Israel one day, but for now, that is not necessary.

Israel is now heaven or God?:confused

Vickilynn
Sep 24th 2007, 04:59 PM
Israel is now heaven or God?:confused

Shalom Teke,

There will be a New Jerusalem. Literal, new Jerusalem. Israel is not G-d. G-d is G-d and will dwell with us in New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

Teke
Sep 24th 2007, 05:06 PM
So a literal new Jerusalem is heaven?....with God......

walked
Sep 24th 2007, 05:34 PM
1. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

2. God through Paul send the gospel to the gentiles.

3. All human beings now have to recieve salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

4. The Church or Body of Christ is mad up off all born again beleivers, Jew, Gentile or Greek etc........

Graffed means to attach as to become one. When you graff a branch into another tree, the branch BECOMES part of that tree. It is that tree.:)

Rom.3 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5023607)

[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

1Cor.12 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5107422)

[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. One Spirit, One body and one church- through faith in Jesus, alone.

Rom.11 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5051792)

[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, (jews, broken off) and thou, being a wild olive tree,(gentiles) wert graffed in among them, (one tree now)and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; All drink from one root- the root of Jesus:pp

God Bless
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? At first the gentioles were not partakers of the Kingdom of God. But, they are now gaffted in. The Jews can also be saved, but it must be through Jesus Christ...


I'm not grafted into Judaism I'm grafted into the ((((promises)))) of God the promises to the house of Shem, Abraham, Isac and Jacob.

But yes I am a spiritual Jew now by His adoption and calling (Jew being the chosen people of God) ...YES! I am grafted in by the price Christ paid on the cross!

walked
Sep 24th 2007, 05:41 PM
So you mean this is not metaphorical to you.
Are you moving to Israel or do you already live there?

I live in the States on earth but I am also at the same time a bought and paid for citizen of heaven now, where God is on His throne.

And when Christ returns and restores all of creation to Himself If I still live in the States then, I will be migrating annually to Jerusalem the physical Jerusalem, the City of God in Israel to observe the seasons and holidays God ordained and offer praise an ordained sacrifices to the Prince of peace (Jesus Christ Himself) at the temple of God in Jerusalem where He will be seated and will rule His whole creation from with the power of His word. I hope to see you there too in those glorious days.

walked
Sep 24th 2007, 05:55 PM
So a literal new Jerusalem is heaven?....with God......

A literal new Jerusalem Is where (Christ will rule from) after He comes/returns to claim what is His, what He paid for. To establish His kingdom on earth.

You decide if that is heaven or not, where we will find our restored fellowship with God on earth....as it was in the beginning on earth until sin entered in by disobedience of Adam and Eve.

enarchay
Sep 24th 2007, 06:22 PM
I feel Christianity becoming a largely Gentile religion has led to some anti-Semitic theology, when in reality, Christianity started out as a sub-branch of Judaism.

The olive tree is a clear metaphor for Israel.

All of Romans 11 is dealing with the problem of first century Israel. Paul is preaching a Jewish message unto Gentiles when many of the very Jews Paul cares so very much for are rejecting Jesus as the Messiah and persecuting Christian congregations. Paul is posed with the question, “If Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, sent to save his Jewish people, why are so many Jews rejecting him; if all of Israel is to be saved, what’s wrong?”

He asks, “Hath God cast away his people” and answers “God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin” (verse 1). Hence a theme begins to emerge that is more fully elaborated upon in Galatians: God is saving Israel, but only a small remnant (cf. verse 3, 4, and 7) of Israel is actually Israel. This is where the metaphor of the olive branch comes in comes in.

Paul explains that the unfaithful of Israel according to the flesh are cut-off from the olive tree. The Gentiles are being grafted in their place. Paul assures his audience if something that was once foreign to the olive tree can be grafted in so also can that which was natural to the olive tree be re-attached, but this happens only “if they abide not still in unbelief” (Rom 11:23).

With the olive tree complete, whether made up of mostly Jews or mostly Gentiles, Paul is actually willing to say, “all Israel shall be saved” (verse 26). But this is not all Israel according to the flesh, but the entire olive tree one in Christ. Paul probably expected, not least after 70 A.D., for Jews to lose their hardness of heart and blindness, regain their faith in God through the Messiah, and become reattached to the tree to constitute a desired mostly Jewish community. However, this unfortunately did not happen.

Within this narrative, it is important to notice that we Gentiles are privileged to be grafted in. “Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee” (Rom 11:20b-21). We must remember there was a “time [we] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:12-13).

It’s not as if us Gentiles were some sort of figurative Israel all along and God calling Isaac over Ishmael was some big joke; no, by God’s grace God had mercy on us Gentiles and grafted us into the commonwealth of Israel. We must not forget that the Jew does have the “advantage” much “every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God” (Rom 3:1-2).

Paul picks up on the theme of two remnants of Israel elsewhere in Romans and especially in Galatians.

Paul realizes many Jews are being cut off from the olive tree and deals with this problem by stating, “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom 9:6) for “In Isaac shall thy seed be called” (verse 7) and “They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed” (verse 8).

Paul picks up on this again quite extraordinarily in Galatians:
“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free” (Gal 4:22-31).
Though we must realize God has privileged us by grafting us into a covenant that once was made with only a single nation and acknowledge the advantage of the Jew, those committed the oracles of God, chosen to be God’s people from the very beginning, we must not also forget: In Christ “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all” (Col 3:11). That is, we are all a part of Israel, and none within Israel is better than one or the other.

Teke
Sep 24th 2007, 07:11 PM
I feel Christianity becoming a largely Gentile religion has led to some anti-Semitic theology, when in reality, Christianity started out as a sub-branch of Judaism.

The olive tree is a clear metaphor for Israel.

All of Romans 11 is dealing with the problem of first century Israel. Paul is preaching a Jewish message unto Gentiles when many of the very Jews Paul cares so very much for are rejecting Jesus as the Messiah and persecuting Christian congregations. Paul is posed with the question, “If Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, sent to save his Jewish people, why are so many Jews rejecting him; if all of Israel is to be saved, what’s wrong?”

He asks, “Hath God cast away his people” and answers “God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin” (verse 1). Hence a theme begins to emerge that is more fully elaborated upon in Galatians: God is saving Israel, but only a small remnant (cf. verse 3, 4, and 7) of Israel is actually Israel. This is where the metaphor of the olive branch comes in comes in.

Paul explains that the unfaithful of Israel according to the flesh are cut-off from the olive tree. The Gentiles are being grafted in their place. Paul assures his audience if something that was once foreign to the olive tree can be grafted in so also can that which was natural to the olive tree be re-attached, but this happens only “if they abide not still in unbelief” (Rom 11:23).

With the olive tree complete, whether made up of mostly Jews or mostly Gentiles, Paul is actually willing to say, “all Israel shall be saved” (verse 26). But this is not all Israel according to the flesh, but the entire olive tree one in Christ. Paul probably expected, not least after 70 A.D., for Jews to lose their hardness of heart and blindness, regain their faith in God through the Messiah, and become reattached to the tree to constitute a desired mostly Jewish community. However, this unfortunately did not happen.

Within this narrative, it is important to notice that we Gentiles are privileged to be grafted in. “Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee” (Rom 11:20b-21). We must remember there was a “time [we] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:12-13).

It’s not as if us Gentiles were some sort of figurative Israel all along and God calling Isaac over Ishmael was some big joke; no, by God’s grace God had mercy on us Gentiles and grafted us into the commonwealth of Israel. We must not forget that the Jew does have the “advantage” much “every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God” (Rom 3:1-2).

Paul picks up on the theme of two remnants of Israel elsewhere in Romans and especially in Galatians.

Paul realizes many Jews are being cut off from the olive tree and deals with this problem by stating, “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom 9:6) for “In Isaac shall thy seed be called” (verse 7) and “They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed” (verse 8).

Paul picks up on this again quite extraordinarily in Galatians:
“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free” (Gal 4:22-31).
Though we must realize God has privileged us by grafting us into a covenant that once was made with only a single nation and acknowledge the advantage of the Jew, those committed the oracles of God, chosen to be God’s people from the very beginning, we must not also forget: In Christ “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all” (Col 3:11). That is, we are all a part of Israel, and none within Israel is better than one or the other.

"Though we must realize God has privileged us by grafting us into a covenant...."
Would that be the 'eternal covenant' in Genesis 9:16,or some other covenant?

walked
Sep 24th 2007, 07:11 PM
I feel Christianity becoming a largely Gentile religion has led to some anti-Semitic theology, when in reality, Christianity started out as a sub-branch of Judaism.

The olive tree is a clear metaphor for Israel.

All of Romans 11 is dealing with the problem of first century Israel. Paul is preaching a Jewish message unto Gentiles when many of the very Jews Paul cares so very much for are rejecting Jesus as the Messiah and persecuting Christian congregations. Paul is posed with the question, “If Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, sent to save his Jewish people, why are so many Jews rejecting him; if all of Israel is to be saved, what’s wrong?”

He asks, “Hath God cast away his people” and answers “God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin” (verse 1). Hence a theme begins to emerge that is more fully elaborated upon in Galatians: God is saving Israel, but only a small remnant (cf. verse 3, 4, and 7) of Israel is actually Israel. This is where the metaphor of the olive branch comes in comes in.

Paul explains that the unfaithful of Israel according to the flesh are cut-off from the olive tree. The Gentiles are being grafted in their place. Paul assures his audience if something that was once foreign to the olive tree can be grafted in so also can that which was natural to the olive tree be re-attached, but this happens only “if they abide not still in unbelief” (Rom 11:23).

With the olive tree complete, whether made up of mostly Jews or mostly Gentiles, Paul is actually willing to say, “all Israel shall be saved” (verse 26). But this is not all Israel according to the flesh, but the entire olive tree one in Christ. Paul probably expected, not least after 70 A.D., for Jews to lose their hardness of heart and blindness, regain their faith in God through the Messiah, and become reattached to the tree to constitute a desired mostly Jewish community. However, this unfortunately did not happen.

Within this narrative, it is important to notice that we Gentiles are privileged to be grafted in. “Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee” (Rom 11:20b-21). We must remember there was a “time [we] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:12-13).

It’s not as if us Gentiles were some sort of figurative Israel all along and God calling Isaac over Ishmael was some big joke; no, by God’s grace God had mercy on us Gentiles and grafted us into the commonwealth of Israel. We must not forget that the Jew does have the “advantage” much “every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God” (Rom 3:1-2).

Paul picks up on the theme of two remnants of Israel elsewhere in Romans and especially in Galatians.

Paul realizes many Jews are being cut off from the olive tree and deals with this problem by stating, “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom 9:6) for “In Isaac shall thy seed be called” (verse 7) and “They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed” (verse 8).

Paul picks up on this again quite extraordinarily in Galatians:
“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free” (Gal 4:22-31).
Though we must realize God has privileged us by grafting us into a covenant that once was made with only a single nation and acknowledge the advantage of the Jew, those committed the oracles of God, chosen to be God’s people from the very beginning, we must not also forget: In Christ “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all” (Col 3:11). That is, we are all a part of Israel, and none within Israel is better than one or the other.
AMEN ! :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp :pp

enarchay
Sep 24th 2007, 08:02 PM
"Though we must realize God has privileged us by grafting us into a covenant...."
Would that be the 'eternal covenant' in Genesis 9:16,or some other covenant?

"Eternal" is from olam, which means more closely "age." So "age-lasting covenant" or "eonian covenant" is a better translation.

The New Covenant (Jer 31:31) is what we have been grafted into in Christ, which is, perhaps, an extension of the covenant made with Abraham. There is definitely a distinction between the covenant made with Moses, which came with the Law of sin and the New Covenant made in Christ that comes with the Law of the Spirit, the circumcision of the heart.

Vickilynn
Sep 24th 2007, 08:16 PM
So a literal new Jerusalem is heaven?....with God......

Shalom,

Yes, I believe the Scriptures I posted from Revelation says just that. Literal, New Jerusalem with Jesus.

Vickilynn
Sep 24th 2007, 08:19 PM
I feel Christianity becoming a largely Gentile religion has led to some anti-Semitic theology, when in reality, Christianity started out as a sub-branch of Judaism.

The olive tree is a clear metaphor for Israel.

All of Romans 11 is dealing with the problem of first century Israel. Paul is preaching a Jewish message unto Gentiles when many of the very Jews Paul cares so very much for are rejecting Jesus as the Messiah and persecuting Christian congregations. Paul is posed with the question, “If Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, sent to save his Jewish people, why are so many Jews rejecting him; if all of Israel is to be saved, what’s wrong?”

He asks, “Hath God cast away his people” and answers “God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin” (verse 1). Hence a theme begins to emerge that is more fully elaborated upon in Galatians: God is saving Israel, but only a small remnant (cf. verse 3, 4, and 7) of Israel is actually Israel. This is where the metaphor of the olive branch comes in comes in.

Paul explains that the unfaithful of Israel according to the flesh are cut-off from the olive tree. The Gentiles are being grafted in their place. Paul assures his audience if something that was once foreign to the olive tree can be grafted in so also can that which was natural to the olive tree be re-attached, but this happens only “if they abide not still in unbelief” (Rom 11:23).

With the olive tree complete, whether made up of mostly Jews or mostly Gentiles, Paul is actually willing to say, “all Israel shall be saved” (verse 26). But this is not all Israel according to the flesh, but the entire olive tree one in Christ. Paul probably expected, not least after 70 A.D., for Jews to lose their hardness of heart and blindness, regain their faith in God through the Messiah, and become reattached to the tree to constitute a desired mostly Jewish community. However, this unfortunately did not happen.

Within this narrative, it is important to notice that we Gentiles are privileged to be grafted in. “Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee” (Rom 11:20b-21). We must remember there was a “time [we] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:12-13).

It’s not as if us Gentiles were some sort of figurative Israel all along and God calling Isaac over Ishmael was some big joke; no, by God’s grace God had mercy on us Gentiles and grafted us into the commonwealth of Israel. We must not forget that the Jew does have the “advantage” much “every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God” (Rom 3:1-2).

Paul picks up on the theme of two remnants of Israel elsewhere in Romans and especially in Galatians.

Paul realizes many Jews are being cut off from the olive tree and deals with this problem by stating, “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom 9:6) for “In Isaac shall thy seed be called” (verse 7) and “They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed” (verse 8).

Paul picks up on this again quite extraordinarily in Galatians:
“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free” (Gal 4:22-31).
Though we must realize God has privileged us by grafting us into a covenant that once was made with only a single nation and acknowledge the advantage of the Jew, those committed the oracles of God, chosen to be God’s people from the very beginning, we must not also forget: In Christ “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all” (Col 3:11). That is, we are all a part of Israel, and none within Israel is better than one or the other.


Shalom,

Whoooooooooooo HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Preach it!! :pp:pp:pp Amen!!!

Teke
Sep 24th 2007, 08:28 PM
"Eternal" is from olam, which means more closely "age." So "age-lasting covenant" or "eonian covenant" is a better translation.

The New Covenant (Jer 31:31) is what we have been grafted into in Christ, which is, perhaps, an extension of the covenant made with Abraham. There is definitely a distinction between the covenant made with Moses, which came with the Law of sin and the New Covenant made in Christ that comes with the Law of the Spirit, the circumcision of the heart.

I don't think Jer. 31:31 is for us. It specifically speaks to Israel (the whole nation) and Judah (not the whole nation). And the very next verse, where it states, "although I was an husband unto them" (KJV) means as Heb. 8:9 says, "and I regarded them not, saith the Lord". Doesn't sound very solid.

I believe the 'grafting' is a metaphor to mean communion with God, freedom etc.

enarchay
Sep 24th 2007, 08:45 PM
I don't think Jer. 31:31 is for us. It specifically speaks to Israel (the whole nation) and Judah (not the whole nation). And the very next verse, where it states, "although I was an husband unto them" (KJV) means as Heb. 8:9 says, "and I regarded them not, saith the Lord". Doesn't sound very solid.

I believe the 'grafting' is a metaphor to mean communion with God, freedom etc.
The author of Hebrews quotes Jeremiah 31 in reference to the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

Egkentrizo, to prick in, or to graft in, is in reference to the attachment of a branch from one tree to another. It is a metaphor for the incorporation of Gentiles into Israel. So some passages that speak of God making a covenant with Israel do in fact speak to us as well as to Israel according to the flesh.

"The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal" (Jer 11:16-17).

Teke
Sep 25th 2007, 12:40 AM
The author of Hebrews quotes Jeremiah 31 in reference to the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

Egkentrizo, to prick in, or to graft in, is in reference to the attachment of a branch from one tree to another. It is a metaphor for the incorporation of Gentiles into Israel. So some passages that speak of God making a covenant with Israel do in fact speak to us as well as to Israel according to the flesh.

"The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal" (Jer 11:16-17).

My point was that it is a metaphor. Not that we actually are Israel now.

enarchay
Sep 25th 2007, 01:58 AM
My point was that it is a metaphor. Not that we actually are Israel now.

But that's exactly what Paul believed. The olive tree is a metaphor for Israel which the Gentiles are now a part of; that's how he is able to say "all Israel shall be saved" and that Israel is called only through Isaac, the seed of which Gentiles are counted for by coming to Christ, the fulfillment of Abraham's seed.