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Steven3
Sep 26th 2007, 01:30 PM
At the risk of being accused of backsliding into legalism, this would be a good verse for a T-shirt :)

1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.

enarchay
Sep 26th 2007, 01:40 PM
What do you want this discussion to be about?

Steven3
Sep 26th 2007, 01:51 PM
What do you want this discussion to be about?Well I obviously have a fixed opinion, shown by the slightly naughty term "grace potatoes" in the thread title, that sometimes with too much emphasis on "grace" and "free gift", wonderful though that all is, we can become couch potato Christians who work on the principle that it is more blessed to receive (from God) than give (to our fellow men). The context - a million miles from this board - is recently having heard someone describing charity work as "legalistic". But then I came across this verse again and thought, "now, that's a balanced view of grace"... But I may soon be corrected :)
S

Brother Mark
Sep 26th 2007, 01:55 PM
Indeed! There are other verses that speak of falling short of the grace that is given us. What a travesty!

enarchay
Sep 26th 2007, 02:40 PM
Well I obviously have a fixed opinion, shown by the slightly naughty term "grace potatoes" in the thread title, that sometimes with too much emphasis on "grace" and "free gift", wonderful though that all is, we can become couch potato Christians who work on the principle that it is more blessed to receive (from God) than give (to our fellow men). The context - a million miles from this board - is recently having heard someone describing charity work as "legalistic". But then I came across this verse again and thought, "now, that's a balanced view of grace"... But I may soon be corrected :)
S

I see. I agree with you about the couch potatoe thing. That is why I think the Catholic vs. Protestant debate over works vs. salvation by grace is pretty fruitless, since both should agree that salvation is by grace and that the Christian should be doing good works (producing "fruit" as it is said in the gospels). One side puts so much of an emphasis on God's grace that they lose perspective on God's expectations for his people and the other puts so much of an emphasis on good works that they lose sight of God's mercy in the election of the people of God, grace, and righteousness. See what I am saying?

mikebr
Sep 26th 2007, 07:56 PM
Too much of the time though its grace for the lost and works for the saved.

Brother Mark
Sep 26th 2007, 08:18 PM
Too much of the time though its grace for the lost and works for the saved.

Anyone that believes we are saved to serve has missed the boat. ;)

Steven3
Sep 27th 2007, 07:25 AM
Another two passages that may be relevant to the idea.

2 Corinthians 6:1 Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain.

And note how ESV inserts, not unreasonably, "act of" before grace in these 3 verses to show that grace was working out in practice.

2 Corinthians 8:4 begging us earnestly for the grace of taking part in the relief of the saints.. 6 Accordingly, we urged Titus that as he had started, so he should complete among you this [act of] grace. 7 But as you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all earnestness, and in our love for you —see that you excel in this [act of] grace also. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. ...............19 And not only that, but he has been appointed by the churches to travel with us as we carry out this [act of] grace that is being ministered by us, for the glory of the Lord himself and to show our good will.

mikebr
Sep 27th 2007, 11:43 AM
Anyone that believes we are saved to serve has missed the boat. ;)


Yeah, but how many times have you heard that preached from pulpits? We are saved to be sons. I am no longer a slave!!!!!!!:pp

ProjectPeter
Sep 27th 2007, 01:56 PM
We are no longer slaves to sin but then the flipside... we are to be slaves to righteousness. Just wanted to point that out. ;)

For those interested...

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

slightlypuzzled
Sep 27th 2007, 02:06 PM
We are no longer slaves to sin but then the flipside... we are to be slaves to righteousness. Just wanted to point that out. ;)

For those interested...

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As such, it clarifies this verse:

Ephesians 2:
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

As Sons, we are to do the Father's will....there is intentionality, and direction in this.

ProjectPeter
Sep 27th 2007, 02:09 PM
As such, it clarifies this verse:

Ephesians 2:
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

As Sons, we are to do the Father's will....there is intentionality, and direction in this.
That there certainly is! Unpopular intentionality and driection but nevertheless... tis there. ;)

ravi4u2
Sep 28th 2007, 04:30 AM
but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.And the greatest joy is in enjoying this free gift to the fullest!

cwb
Sep 28th 2007, 04:57 AM
As such, it clarifies this verse:

Ephesians 2:
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

As Sons, we are to do the Father's will....there is intentionality, and direction in this.

The desire to do the Father's will comes with the free gift. It is part of the package.