PDA

View Full Version : Clarification! How Does One Get Saved In Four Time Zones?



tgallison
Sep 27th 2007, 03:05 PM
1. Adam to the flood.

2. Noah to Moses.

3. Moses to Jesus.

4. Jesus till now.

ravi4u2
Sep 27th 2007, 03:28 PM
fall of Adam to giving of law to Moses - judged by the conscience

from the giving of Law to Moses to Jesus' resurrection - judged by the law

from the resurrection of Jesus to His coming again - judged by faith

These periods of grace ae overlapping. IN the sense that we still have people today who have not heard about Jesus, who will be judged according to their conscience. There are people who live by the Law. And then, there are the others, who live by faith. Conscience and Law will most likely fail you. But the just shall surely live by faith.

Sold Out
Sep 27th 2007, 04:46 PM
1. Adam to the flood.

2. Noah to Moses.

3. Moses to Jesus.

4. Jesus till now.

1) Faith in the coming Messiah
2) Faith in the coming Messiah
3) Faith in the coming Messiah
4) Faith in the Messiah that came.

tgallison
Sep 27th 2007, 04:53 PM
fall of Adam to giving of law to Moses - judged by the conscience

from the giving of Law to Moses to Jesus' resurrection - judged by the law

from the resurrection of Jesus to His coming again - judged by faith

These periods of grace ae overlapping. IN the sense that we still have people today who have not heard about Jesus, who will be judged according to their conscience. There are people who live by the Law. And then, there are the others, who live by faith. Conscience and Law will most likely fail you. But the just shall surely live by faith.

ravi4u2

Judged by the conscience! What does that mean? That you are weighed in a balance.

Judged by the law! Does that mean keep the whole law?

Judged by faith! Faith in what?

tgallison
Sep 27th 2007, 05:00 PM
1) Faith in the coming Messiah
2) Faith in the coming Messiah
3) Faith in the coming Messiah
4) Faith in the Messiah that came.


But how did they Know in 1) 2) 3) ???

mikebr
Sep 27th 2007, 06:13 PM
1. Adam to the flood.

2. Noah to Moses.

3. Moses to Jesus.

4. Jesus till now.

Adam to Flood-Jesus
Noah to Moses-Jesus
Moses to Jesus-Jesus
Jesus till now-Jesus

JESUS, the only name given among men whereby they might be saved.

humbled
Sep 27th 2007, 06:24 PM
The GRACE of God

Blessings

Sold Out
Sep 27th 2007, 06:26 PM
But how did they Know in 1) 2) 3) ???

To the men on the Emmaeus Rd.....Jesus said:

"Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:26-27

The entire theme of the bible is Christ. Jesus spoke of Abraham looking forward to His coming:

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." John 8:56

In just two scriptures we see that those who lived before the law & prophets knew all about Christ (John 8:56/Abraham), and those who lived after the law & prophets knew all about Christ (Luke 24:26-27)

tgallison
Sep 27th 2007, 06:41 PM
To the men on the Emmaeus Rd.....Jesus said:

"Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:26-27

The entire theme of the bible is Christ. Jesus spoke of Abraham looking forward to His coming:

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." John 8:56

In just two scriptures we see that those who lived before the law & prophets knew all about Christ (John 8:56/Abraham), and those who lived after the law & prophets knew all about Christ (Luke 24:26-27)


Sold Out

But their is many that don't see how that is possible. And besides that is all New Testament.

ravi4u2
Sep 27th 2007, 07:00 PM
ravi4u2

Judged by the conscience! What does that mean? That you are weighed in a balance.
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat...'' (Genesis 2:17)
Genesis records that God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam disobeyed.

1. By disobeying, Adam learned good and evil.
2. The knowledge of good and evil has been inherited by all descendants of Adam, including you and me.
3. The knowledge of good and evil isa small voice that each person has in his or her head-- a voice that says, "This is good," or "This is evil."
4. We call that small voice our CONSCIENCE.

"...having their own conscience seared with a hot iron" (Timothy 4:2). If a person habitually disobeys his conscience, it is like he is repeatedly burning a wound into his flesh. As 1 Timothy 4.2 says, a person who repeatedly ignores his conscience will (in effect) cause it to form dead, unfeeling scar tissue. Eventually, that person's conscience will find no wrong in even the most horrible of deeds or thoughts. For this reason the human conscience is NOT a perfect judge of good and evil.

"for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them" (Romans 2:14-15). Although the human conscience is not infallible, an unbeliever WILL be called to judgment for those occasions where he or she deliberately violated his or her own sense of right and wrong. James says, "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."

Judged by the law! Does that mean keep the whole law?Moses said, "Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them." James says, "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." Paul says in Galatians that not even those to whom the Law was given can keep the whole Law.


Judged by faith! Faith in what?Paul says in Galatians, that we are justified by the faith of Christ Jesus.

Sold Out
Sep 27th 2007, 07:01 PM
Sold Out

But their is many that don't see how that is possible. And besides that is all New Testament.

Don't worry about the 'many' who don't see it that way. What does the bible say? Jesus Himself said the entire OT spoke of HIM!

I doubt that most people look for Christ in the Old Testament, and He is everywhere! If you look, you will find Him in the OT, just as those who were saved during the OT did.

tgallison
Sep 27th 2007, 07:29 PM
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat...'' (Genesis 2:17)
Genesis records that God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam disobeyed.

1. By disobeying, Adam learned good and evil.
2. The knowledge of good and evil has been inherited by all descendants of Adam, including you and me.
3. The knowledge of good and evil isa small voice that each person has in his or her head-- a voice that says, "This is good," or "This is evil."
4. We call that small voice our CONSCIENCE.

"...having their own conscience seared with a hot iron" (Timothy 4:2). If a person habitually disobeys his conscience, it is like he is repeatedly burning a wound into his flesh. As 1 Timothy 4.2 says, a person who repeatedly ignores his conscience will (in effect) cause it to form dead, unfeeling scar tissue. Eventually, that person's conscience will find no wrong in even the most horrible of deeds or thoughts. For this reason the human conscience is NOT a perfect judge of good and evil.

"for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them" (Romans 2:14-15). Although the human conscience is not infallible, an unbeliever WILL be called to judgment for those occasions where he or she deliberately violated his or her own sense of right and wrong. James says, "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Moses said, "Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them." James says, "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." Paul says in Galatians that not even those to whom the Law was given can keep the whole Law.

Paul says in Galatians, that we are justified by the faith of Christ Jesus.



ravi4u2

Can you tell me in what way the conscience saved those from Adam to the law? I do not have a clear picture of that.


The Law from Moses to Jesus seems to be a paradox. Moses and James saying you had to keep all the Law, and Paul saying no one could keep all the Law. So how does that work? How does the Law save you?

tgallison
Sep 27th 2007, 07:35 PM
Don't worry about the 'many' who don't see it that way. What does the bible say? Jesus Himself said the entire OT spoke of HIM!

I doubt that most people look for Christ in the Old Testament, and He is everywhere! If you look, you will find Him in the OT, just as those who were saved during the OT did.


Sold Out

What verses do I show those that ask me where is Jesus in the Old Testament? When they say He was only born 2,000 years ago.

Sold Out
Sep 27th 2007, 07:47 PM
Sold Out

What verses do I show those that ask me where is Jesus in the Old Testament? When they say He was only born 2,000 years ago.

Jesus has existed eternally...He is the 2nd person of the Triune Godhead. He was PHYSICALLY born 2000 yrs ago.

There are too many scriptures to list. I can email a list to you if you PM me your email address.

tgallison
Sep 27th 2007, 08:28 PM
Jesus has existed eternally...He is the 2nd person of the Triune Godhead. He was PHYSICALLY born 2000 yrs ago.

There are too many scriptures to list. I can email a list to you if you PM me your email address.


Sold Out

We are in harmony here, but I have run into so many that don't see Jesus
in the Old Testament. They add obedience in with faith. It seems to be such a block for many. It obscures so much discernment of Scripture.

I thought a discussion of it might help some. Sorry if I seemed to mislead you.

Sold Out
Sep 27th 2007, 08:48 PM
I thought a discussion of it might help some. Sorry if I seemed to mislead you.

no problem....:D

ravi4u2
Sep 27th 2007, 11:44 PM
ravi4u2

Can you tell me in what way the conscience saved those from Adam to the law? I do not have a clear picture of that.


The Law from Moses to Jesus seems to be a paradox. Moses and James saying you had to keep all the Law, and Paul saying no one could keep all the Law. So how does that work? How does the Law save you?Well, in all the ages, the faithful were saved by grace. Just that grace was dispensed differently; through conscience, law or faith. One person who was saved for sure in the age of conscience is Enoch. As to the Law, I can think of a few, but Ezra is my favorite. But it has never been in the 'doing' but in the 'being'.

tgallison
Sep 28th 2007, 01:10 AM
Well, in all the ages, the faithful were saved by grace. Just that grace was dispensed differently; through conscience, law or faith. One person who was saved for sure in the age of conscience is Enoch. As to the Law, I can think of a few, but Ezra is my favorite. But it has never been in the 'doing' but in the 'being'.


ravi4u2

I think were playing in two different fields here. If you are saying they were saved by faith in Jesus Christ through God's grace, and that some how the conscience and the law guided them to Jesus Christ, then were not far apart. But if you are saying something different I would like to hear what it is.

In Jesus Christ

ravi4u2
Sep 28th 2007, 02:36 AM
ravi4u2

I think were playing in two different fields here. If you are saying they were saved by faith in Jesus Christ through God's grace, and that some how the conscience and the law guided them to Jesus Christ, then were not far apart. But if you are saying something different I would like to hear what it is.

In Jesus ChristThey were saved by GRACE [period]. Just the agents (or dispensation) of Grace were different.

humbled
Sep 28th 2007, 04:35 AM
They were saved by GRACE [period]. Just the agents (or dispensation) of Grace were different.Amen :)

Soli Deo Gloria