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truthseeker2
Sep 29th 2007, 03:19 PM
What exactly does Jesus mean by how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

I know that the salt they used in those days could lose it's saltines, but how does that apply to our lives? What does it mean to lose your saltines and how does that fit into grace and forgiveness especially considering Jesus's example

Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

I mean if we are supposed to forgive our brother seventy-seven times (obviously he didn't mean just seventy-seven) then how much more will God forgive us?

Did Peter lose his saltiness when he denied Jesus 3 times? If not then what exactly does losing your saltiness mean?

RogerW
Sep 29th 2007, 03:50 PM
What exactly does Jesus mean by how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

I know that the salt they used in those days could lose it's saltines, but how does that apply to our lives? What does it mean to lose your saltines and how does that fit into grace and forgiveness especially considering Jesus's example

Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

I mean if we are supposed to forgive our brother seventy-seven times (obviously he didn't mean just seventy-seven) then how much more will God forgive us?

Did Peter lose his saltiness when he denied Jesus 3 times? If not then what exactly does losing your saltiness mean?


Matthew 5:13-14 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

I believe that Jesus contrasts the man of God with Christ in him, and the man who has fallen away from God, and has no virtue. I believe the 'salt' symbolizes virtue, but if the salt have no savor (no virtue), it is good for nothing. For it is the savor which is the goodness! I believe the savor signifies goodness or righteousness. In this verse it seems Christ is warnin not so much of our duty to salt the world (show Godly character/virtue), but to see that our salt (Godly character/virtue) is genuine, is real. We are called to make our calling and Election sure! The previous verses (matt. 5:11-12) set the context where Christians expect to be reviled, persecuted, and have all manner of evil spoken against them, and it is in this context that in verses 13 and 14 we are warned not to lose our saltiness.

Many Blessings,RW

Saved7
Sep 29th 2007, 09:28 PM
What exactly does Jesus mean by how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

I know that the salt they used in those days could lose it's saltines, but how does that apply to our lives? What does it mean to lose your saltines and how does that fit into grace and forgiveness especially considering Jesus's example

Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

I mean if we are supposed to forgive our brother seventy-seven times (obviously he didn't mean just seventy-seven) then how much more will God forgive us?

Did Peter lose his saltiness when he denied Jesus 3 times? If not then what exactly does losing your saltiness mean?

If what you use for flavoring loses it's flavor, it's useless to you. Because what will you flavor that thing with now? You can't flavor unsalty salt, with unsalty salt.:D So what do you do with it? Throw it out. That's all it's worth at that point. Aside from using it as a preservative, what is salt good for? A Flavoring, therefore, if it loses it's flavor it's useless.
Kind of like a christian who loses interest in Christ and the things of God. When the love for Christ is gone and your faith is gone, then what do you have left?

Sold Out
Sep 29th 2007, 09:48 PM
What exactly does Jesus mean by how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

I know that the salt they used in those days could lose it's saltines, but how does that apply to our lives? What does it mean to lose your saltines and how does that fit into grace and forgiveness especially considering Jesus's example

Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

I mean if we are supposed to forgive our brother seventy-seven times (obviously he didn't mean just seventy-seven) then how much more will God forgive us?

Did Peter lose his saltiness when he denied Jesus 3 times? If not then what exactly does losing your saltiness mean?


I believe losing 'saltiness' (flavor) means losing your godly influence - due maybe to sin and turning from God.

If you are 'flavorless' no one will listen to you.

truthseeker2
Sep 30th 2007, 04:23 AM
Well ok, thanks for your replys so to get to my point. He says that once it loses it's saltiness it cannot be made salty again, so you are saying that if you lose your interest in God or you run away from his truth that is losing your saltiness is that correct?

Correct me if I'm wrong, so where is the forgiveness? If you are to follow that analogy it sounds like if you run away from God and you start to sin you cannot come back because Jesus says that once the salt loses it's saltiness it cannot be made salty again.

So once you run away and you lose your saltiness and you can't be made salty again?

Serve-N-Protect
Sep 30th 2007, 04:58 AM
Matthew 5:13-14 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted?

I have worn out my welcome many places. to the point where people say things like.... "Oh he is just one of them nutty Christians." or "There's that guy who is always accusing people with his bible." or even "He's got his mouth running again, just ignore him."


it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

And they have, and they should. I was good for nothing but bringing reproach to God.


Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

You see... Lights... they shine... they don't talk. Cities on hills are seen... They are not heard. Neither one I would classify as being salty. In saltyness, I have seasoned many peoples day, and in my experience, salt always looses its savour.

That is what these verses always meant to me anyways.

Serve-N-Protect
Sep 30th 2007, 05:11 AM
as a follow up, I never took being the salt of the earth as being a good thing.

oneinthespirit
Sep 30th 2007, 07:23 AM
think of the world as being a giant bowl of soup with no flavor......... now add some salt to that........... much better huh? We as Christians are the salt and we should make this world a better place by adding salt. now the unflavorness of the world is sin. sin is growing and the salt is becoming less and less. what good is the salt if it doesnt flavor up the soup? its sad to say, and this is off topic, but there isnt enough salt shakers out there and out of the ones out there half of them are mixed with a different seasoning.:( BUT :D I like to consider my self as a light better than salt. Light makes a whole lot more difference in a pitch black pit, than salt to a bowl of water.;);)
MAY GOD BLESS YOU

TEITZY
Sep 30th 2007, 11:49 AM
Well ok, thanks for your replys so to get to my point. He says that once it loses it's saltiness it cannot be made salty again, so you are saying that if you lose your interest in God or you run away from his truth that is losing your saltiness is that correct?

Correct me if I'm wrong, so where is the forgiveness? If you are to follow that analogy it sounds like if you run away from God and you start to sin you cannot come back because Jesus says that once the salt loses it's saltiness it cannot be made salty again.

So once you run away and you lose your saltiness and you can't be made salty again?

I think perhaps you are pushing Jesus' illustration too far in terms of its spiritual application. The main point is that salt without savour (its taste or preservative characteristics) is useless.

If Peter lost his 'saltiness' how do you explain Pentecost? For the Christian, forgiveness & restoration are always available so I think the idea that we only get one go at it (being salt) and that our influence for Christ in this world can never be restored again is somewhat flawed Biblically.

One must always be careful (when forming doctrinal views from parables or illustrations) to ensure that what is taught is consistent with what is CLEARLY revealed elsewhere in the Bible (eg. the Epistles).

Just remember that what is impossible with man is possible with God.

Cheers
Leigh

RogerW
Sep 30th 2007, 04:19 PM
Consider also that at times when salt was not plentiful, or when greed became more important than having pure salt, sand was added to the salt to dilute it. If you look at how a Christian is called to be salt unto the world, we need to be careful that the salt we profess does not become mixed with things of the world, and become polluted and unprofitable. Mixing the pure Word with false doctrines that tickle man's ear is one example of how salt can become unprofitable and good for nothing.

Many Blessings,
RW

ChristopherE
Sep 30th 2007, 07:10 PM
as a follow up, I never took being the salt of the earth as being a good thing.

It absolutely is a good thing. Think of meat, if it were not preserved with salt, how quickly it would rot. Salt is a preservative as well as good for flavor. If this world had no Christians left, it would rot exceedingly fast. Those in Christ are preserving the world so that more can come to Christ.

Lev 2:13 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Lev&c=2&v=13&version=KJV#13)And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.

You see any meat offerings to the Lord should be seasoned with salt. The meat would both be flavored and preserved. But what does that mean as Christians today? The sharing of the gospel is our offering to the Lord, when we share God's word it should be both, in a manner which preserves God's love and grace for those it's being offered to, and is flavorful or appealling to that individual.

Col 4:6 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Col&c=4&v=6&version=KJV#6)Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

We shouldn't deliver the gospel with bitterness or wastefully, but with truth that is savory and preserving.

Serve-N-Protect
Sep 30th 2007, 07:32 PM
It absolutely is a good thing. Think of meat, if it were not preserved with salt, how quickly it would rot. Salt is a preservative as well as good for flavor. If this world had no Christians left, it would rot exceedingly fast. Those in Christ are preserving the world so that more can come to Christ.

Lev 2:13 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Lev&c=2&v=13&version=KJV#13)And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.

You see any meat offerings to the Lord should be seasoned with salt. The meat would both be flavored and preserved. But what does that mean as Christians today? The sharing of the gospel is our offering to the Lord, when we share God's word it should be both, in a manner which preserves God's love and grace for those it's being offered to, and is flavorful or appealling to that individual.

Col 4:6 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Col&c=4&v=6&version=KJV#6)Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

OK... there is more than one way of looking at it though. I think your way is valid. I just don't see it that way. Jesus' analogy in context that is. the saltyness I have experienced has washed away, but the lights and the city continue to shine and be seen through me. If saltyness from me is a result of those things then so be it.

Others focus on the saltyness, and the result is the lights and the city respectively.


"We shouldn't deliver the gospel with bitterness or wastefully, but with truth that is savory and preserving.

Agreed, but in my experience some that deliver it in savory preserving, are not necessarily shining as lights or seen as cities.

Saved7
Oct 1st 2007, 12:18 AM
Well ok, thanks for your replys so to get to my point. He says that once it loses it's saltiness it cannot be made salty again, so you are saying that if you lose your interest in God or you run away from his truth that is losing your saltiness is that correct?

Correct me if I'm wrong, so where is the forgiveness? If you are to follow that analogy it sounds like if you run away from God and you start to sin you cannot come back because Jesus says that once the salt loses it's saltiness it cannot be made salty again.

So once you run away and you lose your saltiness and you can't be made salty again?


We are talking about a "permanent" loss of saltiness here. Not a momentary loss of faith. Remember God knows the end from the beginning. If someone were to "lose their saltiness" God would know if it is temporary or permanent, wouldn't he?:saint:
And as others have mentioned, it is also how "WE PRESENT" the gospel to others, it should be appealing to them by showing the love of Christ.

amazzin
Oct 1st 2007, 12:27 AM
What exactly does Jesus mean by how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

I know that the salt they used in those days could lose it's saltines, but how does that apply to our lives? What does it mean to lose your saltines and how does that fit into grace and forgiveness especially considering Jesus's example

Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

I mean if we are supposed to forgive our brother seventy-seven times (obviously he didn't mean just seventy-seven) then how much more will God forgive us?

Did Peter lose his saltiness when he denied Jesus 3 times? If not then what exactly does losing your saltiness mean?

Salt here means that we are the only preserving agent God has on this earth. Preserving the tide that is ever going towards unlawfullness. We are Christ's preserving agents on earth.

Losing your saltiness means you let sin get by without you objecting such as in the case of abortions for example. We are to stand ground and speak out on behalf of God. This is what saltiness means.

Mograce2U
Oct 1st 2007, 12:40 AM
Did anyone mention this passage?

(Col 4:6 KJV) Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

This implies the wisdom from above that comes by grace.
(James 3:13-18 KJV) Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. {14} But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. {15} This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. {16} For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. {17} But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. {18} And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

And this wisdom which brings grace to its hearers comes from a mind that has been established in the faith - the evil eye is double-mindedness which comes from a covetous heart. That is also evidence that one's wisdom is not established on God's grace, but on carnal thoughts and desires.

(Luke 11:34-36 KJV) The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. {35} Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. {36} If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

Grace + salt + light = wisdom from God, this is what we speak, when asked about the hope that we have.

truthseeker2
Oct 21st 2007, 11:12 AM
I know it's been a while, but it seems that no one is really answering my question, although I appreciate replies.

So the answer I seem to have gotten is letting sin go by and not objecting to it would be losing your salt.

Then I ask, what about the prodigal son that took his inheritance early, went and completely blew it on sin and only when he ran out of money decided to go back to his father (God) and instead of the father telling him, too bad you were ok with sin and only when you ran out of money did you come back. Instead he welcomes him, is overjoyed and throws a party.

Also Jesus speaks of God being more forgiving then man, and Jesus says in essence that if a man keeps asking for forgiveness even if he sins against you 7 times in one day that you should forgive him.

So why does Jesus say it cannot be made salty again?

Mograce2U
Oct 21st 2007, 06:30 PM
(Mark 9:42-50 KJV) And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. {43} And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {44} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. {45} And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {46} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. {47} And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: {48} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. {49} For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. {50} Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Sin is the subject here - sin that offends another causes him to stumble. Peace between brethren is the goal if one is to avoid the fires of hell. The trial of faith will sanctify us - that is what salts us - purifying us.

(Luke 14:25-35 KJV) And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, {26} If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. {27} And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. {28} For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? {29} Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, {30} Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. {31} Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? {32} Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. {33}So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. {34} Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? {35} It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Here salty salt is likened to a whole-hearted commitment to follow Christ.

(Col 4:5-6 KJV) Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. {6} Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Words of grace should enhance our speech towards those who are lost. Accompanied by wisdom as we share the gospel.

(James 3:10-12 KJV) Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. {11} Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? {12} Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Here salt has a negative connotation. Our words should bring blessing upon those who hear us. The fountain that springs up in us and out our mouths should bring life - this is about fruit bearing for the kingdom.

Back to the first passage:
(Mat 5:13 KJV) Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Now if we strive with one another that brings sin back into play and loss of peace between brethren. Cursing and not blessing will be the result if we do not purify ourselves in the trials we face. To be the salt of earth takes grace, virtue, peace and wisdom. Sin however will cause you to lose your ability to be salt and light in the world.

TEITZY
Oct 23rd 2007, 03:15 AM
I know it's been a while, but it seems that no one is really answering my question, although I appreciate replies.

So the answer I seem to have gotten is letting sin go by and not objecting to it would be losing your salt.

Then I ask, what about the prodigal son that took his inheritance early, went and completely blew it on sin and only when he ran out of money decided to go back to his father (God) and instead of the father telling him, too bad you were ok with sin and only when you ran out of money did you come back. Instead he welcomes him, is overjoyed and throws a party.

Also Jesus speaks of God being more forgiving then man, and Jesus says in essence that if a man keeps asking for forgiveness even if he sins against you 7 times in one day that you should forgive him.

So why does Jesus say it cannot be made salty again?

I think in most contexts where salt is used of believers it is in regard to discipleship or our witness or testimony before men. So a believer can lose the power or effectiveness of his testimony or ministry before men (note that it is "men" who "trampled underfoot" not God) which would be different to losing ones salvation before God (I don't believe true salvation can be lost anyway). In ministry this is certainly very true as Paul indicated in 1 Cor 9:27:

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Also with regard to the qualification for Elders Paul says:

1 Tim 3:7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Another possibility (though this is a bit tenuous) is that Jesus is actually referring to two different kinds of "salt". The salt from the Dead Sea was full of impurities and would easily lose its taste or preservative properties and would then be thrown on footpaths or used as fertilizer (it also contained minerals such as calcium, potassium, magnesium and trace elements that were beneficial for crop growth). On the other hand, much more pure & refined salt (75-90% sodium chloride) could be obtained from salinas fed from the Mediterranean Sea and this type would never lose its saltiness.

In Luke 14:25-35 Jesus is talking to the crowds that are following Him on the subject of discipleship and what it means to be a true disciple in contrast to a false disciple (most who actually 'followed' Jesus were in fact false disciples - see John 6:66). In verses 33-35 He says:



So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple. “Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”


So the good salt (that doesn't lose its savour) is a picture of true disciples (who possess genuine saving faith) while the inferior salt is a picture of false disciples who never commit themselves to Christ. So it is totally useless for someone to say they are a 'Christian' or a follower of Jesus if they are not willing to commit themselves to Him and His commands. The visible church is full of nominal believers who profess Christ but are not truly saved as is evidenced in their worldiness and ungodly lives. Such 'believers' bring a reproach upon Christ and His Church which the world is only too willing to take advantage of and dismiss Christians as hypocrites (they trample Christianity underfoot as it were). Also notice that Jesus mentions that this type of salt is not even "fit for the land", so it is neither salty nor is it even good for fertilizer - it is basically good for nothing!

Regarding the parable of the Prodigal Son, I believe the context there regarding salvation is different to the discipleship issue in discussed in these other passages.

Cheers
Leigh