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Michele840
Oct 6th 2007, 03:09 PM
I haven't been to this forum for a long time, but every once in a while I pop up. Maybe some people might not want to have a thread about halloween, but that was my intention when I came back onto this message board and I think that what I have to say needs to be said. Please read this and at least think about what I have to say on the subject. I also posted most of this on another message board.

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Of course, halloween is NOT okay to observe and celebrate. This is so upsetting to see fellow Christians observing it and acting like it's okay. I know all about halloween. I used to love it and it was my favorite day of the year - before I got saved! Then I woke up to the truth. It is evil. It is a pagan observance. Celebrating it at all in any fashion is sin because it is a pagan observance with pagan roots and it completely contradicts the WORD OF GOD. We already have our own fall festival and it's called the Feast Of Tabernacles aka Sukkot which is the fall feast that God set up Himself for us to celebrate (which I just finished observing from 9/26/07 - 10/04/07 as it lasts eight days). Most Christians don't observe the feasts instituted by God because I believe they are being deceived by satan to not even think about those observances and because they are so caught up in their own "holidays" with pagan roots such as halloween, easter and even Christmas (which I would be happy to tell you about). But, God Himself said to observe the Feast Of Tabernacles:

Leviticus 23:2, 4: “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts." "These are the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times." (NKJV) (God instituted the holiday and requires us to observe it)

Zechariah 14:16-19: "And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles." (NKJV) (God requires us to observe it. And this is a prophecy talking about our future when Jesus rules the earth.)

This is a history of halloween from MS Encarta Encyclopedia:

"Many of the ancient peoples of Europe marked the end of the harvest season and the beginning of winter by celebrating a holiday in late autumn. The most important of these holidays to influence later halloween customs was samhain, a holiday observed by the ancient Celts, a tribal people who inhabited most of Western and Central Europe in the first millennium bc. Among the Celts, samhain marked the end of one year and the beginning of the next. It was one of four Celtic holidays linked to important transitions in the annual cycle of seasons.
samhain began at sundown on October 31 and extended into the following day. According to the Celtic pagan religion, known as druidism, the spirits of those who had died in the preceding year roamed the earth on samhain evening. The Celts sought to ward off these spirits with offerings of food and drink. The Celts also built bonfires at sacred hilltop sites and performed rituals, often involving human and animal sacrifices, to honor druid deities.
By the end of the 1st century ad, the Roman Empire had conquered most of the Celtic lands (see Rome, History of). In the process of incorporating the Celts into their empire, the Romans adapted and absorbed some Celtic traditions as part of their own pagan and Catholic religious observances. In Britain, Romans blended local samhain customs with their own pagan harvest festival honoring pomona, goddess of fruit trees. Some scholars have suggested that the game of bobbing for apples derives from this Roman association of the holiday with fruit.
Pure Celtic influences lingered longer on the western fringes of Europe, especially in areas that were never brought firmly under Roman control, such as Ireland, Scotland, and the Brittany region of northwestern France. In these areas, samhain was abandoned only when the local people converted to Christianity during the early Middle Ages, a period that lasted from the 5th to the 15th century. The Roman Catholic Church often incorporated modified versions of older religious traditions in order to win converts. For example, Pope Gregory IV sought to replace samhain with All Saints’ Day in 835. All Souls’ Day, closer in spirit to samhain and modern halloween, was first instituted at a French monastery in 998 and quickly spread throughout Europe. Folk observances linked to these [Christian holidays], including halloween, thus preserved many of the ancient Celtic customs associated with samhain.
halloween traditions thought to be incompatible with Christianity often became linked with Christian folk beliefs about evil spirits. Although such superstitions varied a great deal from place to place, many of the supernatural beings now associated with halloween became fixed in the popular imagination during the late Middle Ages and the Renaissance (14th to 17th century). The jack-o’-lantern, originally carved from a large turnip rather than a pumpkin, originated in medieval Scotland. Various methods of predicting the future, especially concerning matters of romance and marriage, were also prominent features of halloween throughout the British Isles.
Between the 15th and 17th centuries, Europe was seized by a hysterical fear of witches, leading to the persecution of thousands of innocent women. witches were thought to ride flying brooms and to assume the form of black cats. These images of witches soon joined other European superstitions as symbols of halloween."

There are many different resources on the Internet that you can find in order to know the origin of halloween. If you research the history of halloween, as I have, you will find that there is something very wrong about it and it's not only about decorating your house with witches and goblins. It goes even deeper than that. These are only a few Bible quotes that forbid and warn against such practices:

Colossians 2:8: "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." (NKJV)

Proverbs 14:12: "There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death." (NKJV)

Exodus 23:24: "You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their sacred pillars." (NKJV)

Leviticus 18: "...According to the doings of the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not do; and according to the doings of the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you, you shall not do; nor shall you walk in their ordinances. You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I am the LORD your God. You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I am the LORD." (speaks of some of the abominations that they do) ..."Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled, lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you. For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore you shall keep My ordinance, so that you do not commit any of these abominable customs which were committed before you, and that you do not defile yourselves by them: I am the LORD your God." (NKJV)

Deuteronomy 12:29-32: "When the LORD your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.' You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it."' (NKJV)

Mark 7: 6-9: He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men - the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition."(NKJV)

1 Corinthians 3:18-21: "Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, 'He catches the wise in their own craftiness;' and again, 'The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.'" (NKJV)

Isaiah 5:20-21: "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, And prudent in their own sight!" (New King James Version)

1 John 2:15-17: "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever." (NKJV)

1 Peter 1:13-16: "Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be holy, for I am holy.'" (NKJV)

Matthew 24:4-15: "And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." (NKJV)

BUT

2 Chronicles 7:14: "If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

1 John 1:8-9: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

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My point in all of this is that the observance of halloween is not of God. It is not "harmless fun." Anything that goes against God is of satan and therefore evil. Anything that contradicts the Word Of God is of satan and therefore evil. Do you honestly think that observing halloween is something that God wants for you to do? Is it His Will for your life? Think about it. Pray about it.

Frances
Oct 6th 2007, 05:48 PM
I agree Michele

DanceswithGod
Oct 8th 2007, 02:35 PM
Thank you for posting this. I joined this board today looking for fellow believers that stand up for Christ on Halloween. I am always frustrated this time of year, because I feel that I stand alone in this. There is only one other family in our church and I am the only teacher in my Christian school that do not celebrate Halloween.

AlainaJ
Oct 8th 2007, 02:42 PM
I agree, Halloween is not innocent fun....especially today.

Maybe 30 or 40 years ago it was harmless with little cute fake looking costumes and such. Today it has turned into a demonic nightmare.

The decorations are so life like, you would think they came off of a movie set. The costumes are just wicked and disgusting. No more cute little cowboys, but hideous monsters.

This holiday has come to glorify the devil. It amazes me that we can't have a nativiity scene, but we can have demons, ghosts and whitches in the town square. I won't even take my kids to certain stores this time of year becuase of the displays...it makes Nightmare on Elm Steet look rated PG.

God Bless:):):)

Phil Fourie
Oct 8th 2007, 02:57 PM
My point in all of this is that the observance of halloween is not of God. It is not "harmless fun." Anything that goes against God is of satan and therefore evil. Anything that contradicts the Word Of God is of satan and therefore evil. Do you honestly think that observing halloween is something that God wants for you to do? Is it His Will for your life? Think about it. Pray about it.

I think you have said it all, I agree 100%.

Maybe I can just add that there will be people saying that they just do it for the fun and do not bow down to strange gods and so on, even quote the Bible where Paul speaks about eating the meat that is offered to other gods.

BUT

Paul also said:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 1:32

You know that a wiccan deserves the judgment of God, so why do you dress up as a witch? Is this not having pleasure in them that do it?

Use it, don't use it:bounce:

God bless
Phil

Whispering Grace
Oct 8th 2007, 03:00 PM
As one who honors and reveres an infinitely holy God, I cannot condone or take part in a holiday that glorifies and celebrates evil, no matter how much "fun" it is.

(Personally, I see nothing "fun" about celebrating that which God hates).

rchivers
Oct 8th 2007, 03:02 PM
Its all what you make of it.

Most kids still dress up as things they want to be when they grow up or animals or fairies or what not. (at least young kids like mine)

People are not having bonfires on hilltops and sacrificing animals and humans to druid dieties.

This day and age it is simply harmless fun. Churches have alternative celebrations around this time of year for the kids and some even have pumpkin patches where they sell pumpkins and stuff to raise money.

I remember as a kid there was a family who would not hand out candy and would not allow their kids to participate.

They were tormented on that night because they CHOSE to stick out and make thier kids specticals for their fanatic beliefs.

I guess you have to watch out for those satanic candy bars though!

Whispering Grace
Oct 8th 2007, 03:04 PM
They were tormented on that night because they CHOSE to stick out and make thier kids specticals for their fanatic beliefs.

If desiring to honor the Lord and NOT blend in with the secular world makes me a fanatic, I will gladly wear the label.

jeafl
Oct 8th 2007, 03:05 PM
About 15 years ago I noticed that Halloween was being commercialized the way Christmas is. Now you have the Halloween equivalent of strings of lights, decorations for yard and home and you can even get Christmas trees in what I consider to be Halloween colors.

I donít know who the Antichrist will be, but I would assume that he will be born on October 31 and after the Rapture, Halloween will completely replace Christmas.

rchivers
Oct 8th 2007, 03:16 PM
If desiring to honor the Lord and NOT blend in with the secular world makes me a fanatic, I will gladly wear the label.

I guess what I was trying to say is that trick or treating has nothing to do with worshiping satan or denying God.

What is sad is when parents deny their kids the joys of being a kid because of misguided conceptions of what an act is all about.

I'm all for not worshiping or glorifying satan, etc. Dont get me wrong there.

So by your logic, not participating means "honoring the Lord".

Let me ask you this. Will you not pay your taxes because they help fund abortions? Seems that would be the right thing to do doesn't it?

DanceswithGod
Oct 8th 2007, 03:21 PM
Its all what you make of it.


I remember as a kid there was a family who would not hand out candy and would not allow their kids to participate.

They were tormented on that night because they CHOSE to stick out and make thier kids specticals for their fanatic beliefs.



My point exactly. I do CHOOSE to "stick out" and "make my kids specticals of my fanatic beliefs". I KNOW that I am standing up for Jesus and am teaching my kids to do the same instead of desensitizing them to evil.

What would have happened if Paul had not CHOSEN to "stick out"?

Maybe I am a fanatic in your eyes, but I cannot come to celebrate a holiday that does not bring glory to God just because it is fun and everyone else is doing it.

Whispering Grace
Oct 8th 2007, 03:21 PM
I guess what I was trying to say is that trick or treating has nothing to do with worshiping satan or denying God.

God abhors evil. Halloween celebrates all sorts of evil. We as Christians should not celebrate something God hates.



What is sad is when parents deny their kids the joys of being a kid because of misguided conceptions of what an act is all about.


I'd rather my children grow up knowing the joy of the Lord than the empty "joy" of secular man-centered holidays.


Let me ask you this. Will you not pay your taxes because they help fund abortions? Seems that would be the right thing to do doesn't it?

Not sure what this has to do with Halloween?

RogerW
Oct 8th 2007, 03:21 PM
Greetings Michele,

Thank you for posting this article. I didn't read the entire article, but in apologetics and evangelism I posted a link to the very same article, or one quite similar. When our family began to worship the One True God we discarded halloween for sake of conscience, but this article is what sealed forever our decision to speak out against this unholiest of all days. Now our family observes Reformation Day on Oct 31th, the very day Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door at Wittenberg Chapel which was the beginning of the Protestant Church we have today.

Halloween symbolizes everything evil, and unholy, and every believer should take a stand against this day of celebration to the angel of darkness, and evil.

Many Blessings,
RW

diffangle
Oct 8th 2007, 03:21 PM
They were tormented on that night because they CHOSE to stick out and make thier kids specticals for their fanatic beliefs.


Mat 16:25 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Mat&c=16&v=25&version=KJV#25)For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for My sake shall find it.

Mat 19:29 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Mat&c=19&v=29&version=KJV#29)And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.


I guess you have to watch out for those satanic candy bars though!
I think it's funny how people try to teach their children to not speak to strangers much less accept candy from strangers then turn around and take their kids or allow their kids to go knock on strangers doors and accept candy from them... talk about sending mixed messages. :hmm:

DanceswithGod
Oct 8th 2007, 03:24 PM
[quote=rchivers;1404331

Let me ask you this. Will you not pay your taxes because they help fund abortions? Seems that would be the right thing to do doesn't it?[/quote]


"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's: and unto God the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21

AlainaJ
Oct 8th 2007, 03:31 PM
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's: and unto God the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21
Huh? what does this have to do with celebrating a voluntary holiday......?

Sorry- you lost me:):):):):)

rchivers
Oct 8th 2007, 03:37 PM
Huh? what does this have to do with celebrating a voluntary holiday......?

Sorry- you lost me:):):):):)

He/she was saying that currency is the governments so you should pay your taxes even if your tax dollars help fund abortions or halloween celebrations.

Taxes are voluntary to a degree as well. Of course they will take it eventually if you dont give it freely, but anyhow....

I guess thats what makes this country great, we can choose for ourselves what we participate in and dont.

I think I might be the only person on this board that feels there is nothing wrong with trick or treating and dressing up for halloween... man, its been an eye opener.

DanceswithGod
Oct 8th 2007, 03:37 PM
That was in reply to "would I pay my taxes just because our government uses it to pay for abortions" Sorry. It has absolutely nothing to do with Halloween! :)

DanceswithGod
Oct 8th 2007, 03:39 PM
rchiver,
There's another Halloween thread on the apolgetics board that is a little more pro Halloween you might be interested in. I am not judging you for celebrating it. I just would like the same respect in the fact that I choose to not do so in order to please my Lord and Savior.

rchivers
Oct 8th 2007, 03:41 PM
rchiver,
There's another Halloween thread on the apolgetics board that is a little more pro Halloween you might be interested in. I am not judging you for celebrating it. I just would like the same respect in the fact that I choose to not do so in order to please my Lord and Savior.

You have my respect. Sorry, I should not have use the word "fanatic". What seems fanatical to some is definently not to others.

Sold Out
Oct 8th 2007, 03:56 PM
I've posted this before (on another Halloween thread):

Last year my teenage son set up a witnessing table in the front yard. He handed out tracts and did Gospel presentations for each group of kids that came by. There were over a dozen kids who received Christ at their Savior that night.

I don't endorse the holiday, but if people are GOING to be out on that night, we can take advantage of opportunities to reach people for Christ.

DanceswithGod
Oct 8th 2007, 04:00 PM
I've posted this before (on another Halloween thread):

Last year my teenage son set up a witnessing table in the front yard. He handed out tracts and did Gospel presentations for each group of kids that came by. There were over a dozen kids who received Christ at their Savior that night.

I don't endorse the holiday, but if people are GOING to be out on that night, we can take advantage of opportunities to reach people for Christ.


I think this is a fine reaction to the holiday. I don't think God wants us as Christians to go into hiding. He also doesn't expect us to be complacent, either.

groovemongrel
Oct 8th 2007, 05:12 PM
What if we dress up as angels or priests?

Whispering Grace
Oct 8th 2007, 05:16 PM
What if we dress up as angels or priests?

It doesn't matter what a person dresses up as....they are still celebrating the holiday.

Honestly, I think the issue here is that people in this day and age just don't fear God anymore.

rchivers
Oct 8th 2007, 05:33 PM
It doesn't matter what a person dresses up as....they are still celebrating the holiday.

Honestly, I think the issue here is that people in this day and age just don't fear God anymore.


Although I dont agree that by dressing up you endorse satan worship or disrespect of God, I do agree that people dont fear God any more... at least not like they used too.

It freaks me out when I realize some of the stuff I am going to have to answer for.

Phil Fourie
Oct 8th 2007, 06:38 PM
Its all what you make of it.

Most kids still dress up as things they want to be when they grow up or animals or fairies or what not. (at least young kids like mine)

People are not having bonfires on hilltops and sacrificing animals and humans to druid dieties.

This day and age it is simply harmless fun. Churches have alternative celebrations around this time of year for the kids and some even have pumpkin patches where they sell pumpkins and stuff to raise money.

I remember as a kid there was a family who would not hand out candy and would not allow their kids to participate.

They were tormented on that night because they CHOSE to stick out and make thier kids specticals for their fanatic beliefs.

I guess you have to watch out for those satanic candy bars though!

This is what I was speaking about earlier. If we do this, do we not support an evil belief system?

If you do not think that witches and all that exist anymore, or if you want to know what big a dat 31 October is on the satanic calender, send my a pm and I will give you the information.

God bless
Phil

PS! I actually like sticking out, think when I have kids they will also like it;)

skc53
Oct 8th 2007, 09:44 PM
I don't like Halloween. I don't decorate for this evil holiday, and I don't think it should even be called a holiday. I know these days a lot of churches have things for the kids to do at their churches, and they tell the kids about Jesus!:pray:

ProjectPeter
Oct 8th 2007, 09:50 PM
He/she was saying that currency is the governments so you should pay your taxes even if your tax dollars help fund abortions or halloween celebrations.

Taxes are voluntary to a degree as well. Of course they will take it eventually if you dont give it freely, but anyhow....

I guess thats what makes this country great, we can choose for ourselves what we participate in and dont.

I think I might be the only person on this board that feels there is nothing wrong with trick or treating and dressing up for halloween... man, its been an eye opener.If they'll take it anyway... and lock you up etc... nothing voluntary about it. No matter how a person spins it.

daughter
Oct 8th 2007, 11:01 PM
Its all what you make of it.

Most kids still dress up as things they want to be when they grow up or animals or fairies or what not. (at least young kids like mine)

People are not having bonfires on hilltops and sacrificing animals and humans to druid dieties.

This day and age it is simply harmless fun. Churches have alternative celebrations around this time of year for the kids and some even have pumpkin patches where they sell pumpkins and stuff to raise money.

I remember as a kid there was a family who would not hand out candy and would not allow their kids to participate.

They were tormented on that night because they CHOSE to stick out and make thier kids specticals for their fanatic beliefs.

I guess you have to watch out for those satanic candy bars though!Okay, as an ex witch I've got to disagree with this. Some witches do celebrate an openly pagan halloween. I used to hold mine on the nearest dark moon rather than the night in question, but many witches do practise magick on halloween. Also, although I thought of myself as a benevolent witch, I know for a fact that there are witches out there following the so called "left hand path" who do in fact sacrifice animals on this night. As a volunteer at an animal rescue sanctuary, and their local press contact I often had to explain why there were headless cats, arranged in ritual displays the next day... it made me uncomfortable, but I knew it was to do with "witchcraft."

Also, there is nothing wrong with teaching your children to stand out against materialism. My son and I will be handing out bible tracts to anyone who knocks on our door. Okay, so we're fanatics. Good. So were the disciples, and many who are tormented for sticking to their beliefs. After all Jesus, all He had to do was recant, and He'd never have been nailed to the cross. That will teaching Him for being a fanatic!

rchivers
Oct 9th 2007, 03:03 AM
Okay, as an ex witch I've got to disagree with this. Some witches do celebrate an openly pagan halloween. I used to hold mine on the nearest dark moon rather than the night in question, but many witches do practise magick on halloween. Also, although I thought of myself as a benevolent witch, I know for a fact that there are witches out there following the so called "left hand path" who do in fact sacrifice animals on this night. As a volunteer at an animal rescue sanctuary, and their local press contact I often had to explain why there were headless cats, arranged in ritual displays the next day... it made me uncomfortable, but I knew it was to do with "witchcraft."

Also, there is nothing wrong with teaching your children to stand out against materialism. My son and I will be handing out bible tracts to anyone who knocks on our door. Okay, so we're fanatics. Good. So were the disciples, and many who are tormented for sticking to their beliefs. After all Jesus, all He had to do was recant, and He'd never have been nailed to the cross. That will teaching Him for being a fanatic!


This is what I cant seem to understand or grasp though.... ok, so some people do their make believe magik stuff on halloween... what does that have to do with dressing up as an army man and collecting candy from your neighbors?

It's like you all are throwing away a bushel of oranges because there is one bad apple in it.

The masses are not practicing witchcraft or decapitating cats (thanks for that visual BTW) in an effort to gain favor with some imaginary God/Goddess.

I think a lot of chrisitians have this black and white mentality that just does not make any sense. They seem to think that if it does not honor God directly then it must be evil. This is ying/yang thinking. Is there no neutral? Cant something just exist without it having to be good or evil?

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 03:27 AM
Halloween is a main holiday that pagans do in order to worship their gods.

Deut 12

29When YHWH thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
30Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
31Thou shalt not do so unto YHWH thy God: for every abomination to YHWH, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
32What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 12:55 PM
Personally I think this day is a good opportunity for Christians not to go into hiding but to be an example to others.

Dress up as something positive. I like one person's example I read a few days ago where the kids from their church went around dressed up as people from the bible. Pass out tracts. Witness to folks on the street.

I just don't understand why many choose to hide themselves away and allow the devil to have his way. So what if some make the day about evil? What does that have to do with us and what we do? Does that mean that the entire day regardless of what you do is considered evil as well? That logic makes no sense to me. I'm sure there are pagans or witches or whatever that do rituals and things on Sunday as well. Does that now mean that the church can't gather for worship on Sunday because the entire day is now for the devil? I mean come on! I think we're going a tad bit overboard here. Just because people choose to do evil on a certain day doesn't mean Christians need to run and hide in fear.

Whispering Grace
Oct 9th 2007, 01:07 PM
I think we're going a tad bit overboard here. Just because people choose to do evil on a certain day doesn't mean Christians need to run and hide in fear.

I don't think anyone is running and hiding. :confused I go about my day on Halloween as if it were any other day.

But I certainly am not going to participate in a holiday that celebrates evil.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 01:35 PM
But I certainly am not going to participate in a holiday that celebrates evil.

You are free to do so. However, I think Christians are letting the devil have his way by not doing anything about it. If things are going to change, Christians are going to have to step outside the walls of their church and start walking in the authority they have been given. Why should the devil be allowed to do whatever he wants? If Christians don't start doing something about these "evil" days, there isn't anything else going to be done. God has left it in the church's hands to be a light unto the world. That light isn't going to shine if it's being kept indoors.

Paul didn't have any problems whatsoever in Acts 17 of walking right up to the folks with their altar for the "unknown god" and preaching to them about the true and Living God.

Whispering Grace
Oct 9th 2007, 01:42 PM
You are free to do so. However, I think Christians are letting the devil have his way by not doing anything about it. If things are going to change, Christians are going to have to step outside the walls of their church and start walking in the authority they have been given. Why should the devil be allowed to do whatever he wants? If Christians don't start doing something about these "evil" days, there isn't anything else going to be done. God has left it in the church's hands to be a light unto the world. That light isn't going to shine if it's being kept indoors.

Paul didn't have any problems whatsoever in Acts 17 of walking right up to the folks with their altar for the "unknown god" and preaching to them about the true and Living God.

I don't have a problem with people going out and witnessing!

I do have a problem with the notion that we should in any way, shape, or form participate in the holiday (dressing up as something non-evil is still participating in the holiday!)

Christians are far too worldly today, and this is just another example of how far we've gone. We need to stop trying to blend in with the secular world!

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 01:57 PM
I don't have a problem with people going out and witnessing!

I do have a problem with the notion that we should in any way, shape, or form participate in the holiday (dressing up as something non-evil is still participating in the holiday!)

Christians are far too worldly today, and this is just another example of how far we've gone. We need to stop trying to blend in with the secular world!

:lol:

I don't think a kid dressed up as Moses is "blending in", and it gives kids an excellent opportunity to share their faith.

And if anyone thinks that dressing up in a costume makes you "worldly", that is a very Old Testament way of looking at things. It's not the outside that makes someone "worldly". It's the heart that does that. And the heart of the matter is what counts here. I'm sure many folks from a distance could have looked at Paul in Acts 17 and said he was participating with those folks in worshiping their "unknown god" simply because he was there and there was nothing on the outside that separated him from those people. However, his heart was totally different, and that is what God is concerned with.

I'm not concerned if other people look at me from the outside and think I'm "worldly". If I can be used to reach someone with the gospel, I don't have the first care in the world about what some other person standing on the outside in judgment cares about it. What matters is what God sees and what He thinks.

Whispering Grace
Oct 9th 2007, 02:02 PM
I don't think a kid dressed up as Moses is "blending in", and it gives kids an excellent opportunity to share their faith.

Dressing up is part of the celebration of Halloween. It's as simple as that.


I'm not concerned if other people look at me from the outside and think I'm "worldly". If I can be used to reach someone with the gospel, I don't have the first care in the world about what some other person standing on the outside in judgment cares about it. What matters is what God sees and what He thinks.

I disagree that we should blend in with the world to share the gospel. I only have to look at the man-centered, seeker-friendly churches that abound today to see how disastrous that notion can be.

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 02:10 PM
Paul didn't have any problems whatsoever in Acts 17 of walking right up to the folks with their altar for the "unknown god" and preaching to them about the true and Living God.

Do you think he inquired of them on how exactly they serve their gods so he could turn around and serve YHWH the same way?

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 02:29 PM
Dressing up is part of the celebration of Halloween. It's as simple as that.

I disagree with you, so obviously it's not as "simple as that".


I disagree that we should blend in with the world to share the gospel. I only have to look at the man-centered, seeker-friendly churches that abound today to see how disastrous that notion can be.

If you are in the Lord and doing His will you are not "blending in" regardless of whether or not you have a costume on. I don't think the Lord would have a problem with a kid dressing up as Moses if it helped give him an opportunity to be a witness to someone who needs to know the truth . . .



1 Corinthians 9:19-23
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospelís sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.


Paul understood that what he did on the outside is not what made him "worldly".

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 02:30 PM
Do you think he inquired of them on how exactly they serve their gods so he could turn around and serve YHWH the same way?

I think you can understand by reading the Scriptures exactly what he did.

Whispering Grace
Oct 9th 2007, 02:41 PM
I don't think the Lord would have a problem .....

Honestly, VR, we can't go by what we think the Lord would think.

Show me one example in Scripture of anyone celebrating a downright evil holiday, feast, etc. and doing so for the glory of the Lord!


Paul understood that what he did on the outside is not what made him "worldly".

Ahhh.....I guess I'll break out my mini skirt and stilletto heels then. After all, it's not about what's on the outside!

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 02:42 PM
I think you can understand by reading the Scriptures exactly what he did.
Right... Paul did not join in their ways of worship and put the label of "well I'm doing this for YHWH" on it. ;)

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 02:53 PM
Show me one example in Scripture of anyone celebrating a downright evil holiday, feast, etc. and doing so for the glory of the Lord!

Show me where in Scripture taking an opportunity to witness to someone and sharing your faith with them is considered "celebrating a downright evil holiday, feast, etc.".

What's evil about dressing up as a person in the bible to give someone a better example than a vampire? What's evil about giving someone a tract? What's evil about giving them candy along with the tract?

It's time Christians stop judging from the outside like the Pharisees and start looking at the heart of the matter.


Ahhh.....I guess I'll break out my mini skirt and stilletto heels then. After all, it's not about what's on the outside!

The only problem there is that you'll be breaking Scriptures direction for dressing modestly. There's no direction in Scripture about not being allowed to wear a costume is there?

I don't see anything in this thread except people judging others for what's on the outside. It doesn't get more pharisaical than that.

Read again the Scripture I gave you where Paul clearly said he became all things to all men. This doesn't mean you take part in sin, but there is no sin in wearing a costume. There is no sin in giving tracts. There is no sin in giving candy.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 02:54 PM
Right... Paul did not join in their ways of worship and put the label of "well I'm doing this for YHWH" on it. ;)

What about dressing up as Moses and giving someone a tract with a piece of candy is taking part in the worship of some other god?

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 03:09 PM
What's evil about dressing up as a person in the bible to give someone a better example than a vampire? What's evil about giving someone a tract? What's evil about giving them candy along with the tract?


What about dressing up as Moses and giving someone a tract with a piece of candy is taking part in the worship of some other god?

How many other times of the year do you dress up in Bible character costumes and pass out candy and tracts?

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 03:15 PM
What seems to be happening here is that some folks are saying we shouldn't be taking part in something because of what some others use that particular time for.

What does that person's heart and what they are doing have to do with my heart and what I'm doing?

Idolatry is a spiritual matter. It is committed in the heart. You don't commit idolatry by wearing a costume. You don't commit idolatry by passing out candy. Those activities are not sinful in and of themselves. It's all about the intentions of the heart. Why are you wearing the costume? Why are you passing out candy? That is why Paul could become all things to all men and not be the same as they are. Paul was still separate even though he didn't have any issue becoming as one under the law when he was not.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 03:16 PM
How many other times of the year do you dress up in Bible character costumes and pass out candy and tracts?

What does that matter?

rchivers
Oct 9th 2007, 03:19 PM
How many other times of the year do you dress up in Bible character costumes and pass out candy and tracts?

Actually in our town parades there is usually at least 1 church float with people dressed up in some sort of biblical theme and they throw candy and hand out tracts... :)

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 03:20 PM
What does that matter?
If you don't understand what is meant by that question then no amount of me trying to explain it to you is going to make you see. :P

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 03:35 PM
If you don't understand what is meant by that question then no amount of me trying to explain it to you is going to make you see. :P

I see what you are trying to get at, but still fail to see what does it matter?

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 03:40 PM
Actually in our town parades there is usually at least 1 church float with people dressed up in some sort of biblical theme and they throw candy and hand out tracts... :)
How often(other than halloween) do you personally dress in costume and pass out candy? :D

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 03:41 PM
I see what you are trying to get at, but still fail to see what does it matter?
Again, no amount of me explaining it to you is going to make you see what I(and others) see why it matters. ;)

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 03:47 PM
Again, no amount of me explaining it to you is going to make you see what I(and others) see why it matters. ;)

Then why bring it up to begin with? Seems pretty pointless to me.

Again, it's all about the heart of the matter.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 03:51 PM
We can use the same example as the Christmas thread a couple of weeks ago.

For those opposed to others dressing up in costumes and passing out candy because some folks around the world use this day to worship their pagan gods, do you have money? If so, why do you have money and use it when some people worship it? Using your logic here, aren't you guilty of taking part in that which others worship? Aren't you worshiping someone else's god?

PrayerInMemphis
Oct 9th 2007, 03:54 PM
What seems to be happening here is that some folks are saying we shouldn't be taking part in something because of what some others use that particular time for.

What does that person's heart and what they are doing have to do with my heart and what I'm doing?

Idolatry is a spiritual matter. It is committed in the heart. You don't commit idolatry by wearing a costume. You don't commit idolatry by passing out candy. Those activities are not sinful in and of themselves. It's all about the intentions of the heart. Why are you wearing the costume? Why are you passing out candy? That is why Paul could become all things to all men and not be the same as they are. Paul was still separate even though he didn't have any issue becoming as one under the law when he was not.:thumbsup:
thank you Vertical Reality, for your logic & eloquence.

rchivers
Oct 9th 2007, 03:56 PM
I started poll asking whether or not your kids would be trick or treating this year....

So far there are 4 votes for yes and 3 votes for no.

I hope more people vote so the results mean more, but apparently this is a very polarized subject and it appears that both sides have nearly equal amount of support.

Toolman
Oct 9th 2007, 04:01 PM
Honestly, VR, we can't go by what we think the Lord would think.

Show me one example in Scripture of anyone celebrating a downright evil holiday, feast, etc. and doing so for the glory of the Lord!

1 Corinthians 8
1 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. 2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.
9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.


Ahhh.....I guess I'll break out my mini skirt and stilletto heels then. After all, it's not about what's on the outside!

Or the other extreme!

http://www.themuslimwoman.org/images/burqa_style_gowns_muslim_womens_apparel.jpg

Theophilus
Oct 9th 2007, 04:11 PM
Or the other extreme!

http://www.themuslimwoman.org/images/burqa_style_gowns_muslim_womens_apparel.jpg
Nice fingernails!

mikebr
Oct 9th 2007, 04:14 PM
Nice fingernails!


Careful now. Next thing you know you'll be trying to get a glimpse of her wrists.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 04:17 PM
Nice fingernails!

Oh Nails . . . $49.95.

Theophilus
Oct 9th 2007, 04:19 PM
Careful now. Next thing you know you'll be trying to get a glimpse of her wrists.
You rascal! :lol:

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your nostrils!

(Little curse action for ya...but since it's not Biblically based, I wouldn't worry too much. ;))

Theophilus
Oct 9th 2007, 04:21 PM
Oh Nails . . . $49.95.
Standing out in the crowd with your nice fingernails and teal blue covering...Priceless.

Toolman
Oct 9th 2007, 04:25 PM
Ok, I posted the woman in the burqa because it does give an example of how religious fanatacism can get completely out of hand and how inspired the scriptures are by giving us a balanced command of modesty.

But I do want to say my heart goes out to the women who have to endure such treatment (and much worse) under the oppression they face on a daily basis.

I'm not making light of their situation and what they have to endure.

For the record.

Theophilus
Oct 9th 2007, 04:29 PM
I'm with Toolman on the oppresson issue...

...but I think what Mike, VR, and myself were doing was bringing a smidge of levity into a tense thread.

I've not been pleased with several of the comments and attitudes I've seen in the course of this thread, and I didn't laugh a little, I'd probably just tell everyone to post final comments, and close it.

:D

Tanya~
Oct 9th 2007, 05:34 PM
The problem is that when we teach our children to celebrate Halloween, we are teaching them that this is something they should do, that is good to do. We are instilling customs that they will keep when they grow up. And in the process, we are sending our children out to participate in something that is about as anti-Christian as it can possibly get. When you look at Halloween you can see how it is a reversal of what God is all about.

Halloween celebrates:

Darkness not Light

1 Thess 5:4-5
You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
Lust not Self denial
Gal 5:22-24
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Fear not Love

1 John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

Masquerade not Truth
2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Death not Life
John 5:24
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

It would be one thing if the kids had their little costume and candy day, and then grew out of it as they got a little older (as used to be the case). Today's marketing will see to it that this doesn't happen. Your kids will not grow out of Halloween, they will grow INTO what Halloween REALLY is. The Halloween customs aren't inherently child's play. That's the problem. The kiddie stuff is the BAIT that hooks us to the holiday. That's why the argument that it is harmless for children is false. They do grow out of the childish aspects and into the darker, more sinister aspects. They will get older, and their celebration will center on the horror, fear, evil, darkness, and excessive indulgence of the flesh (in progressively more wicked forms that go far beyond gorging greedily on candy). Halloween is bigger than ever and darker than ever, and will only get worse as time passes. Our parents before us sent us out trick-or-treating and at that time that's pretty much all there was to it. But now that we have all grown up, we want to keep celebrating the holiday for US not just the kids. Ours is a wicked generation, and it will only get worse.

So I don't teach this to my children, who understand and don't want to participate because they see it from the perspective of truth rather than looking at it from the perspective of fun.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 05:46 PM
The problem is that when we teach our children to celebrate Halloween, we are teaching them that this is something they should do, that is good to do.

Well, if you're teaching your children that it is a good opportunity to witness to others and set a better example for them . . . why wouldn't it be a good thing to do?


We are instilling customs that they will keep when they grow up.

Witnessing to others and sharing our faith is something I want my children to keep when they grow up.


And in the process, we are sending our children out to participate in something that is about as anti-Christian as it can possibly get.

What is "anti-Christian" about a kid dressing up as Moses, or even something that has nothing to do with our faith like a football player? Not everything has to be about the devil. It's all what you make of it. It's all where your heart is.


When you look at Halloween you can see how it is a reversal of what God is all about.

It seems to me it's all about perspective. Otherwise there wouldn't be folks here disagreeing with you. I don't think it has to be a reversal of what God is all about at all.

All the things you listed as representing Halloween doesn't represent it to all people. The day doesn't represent death to me. It doesn't represent evil to me. It's all about your own perspective.



It would be one thing if the kids had their little costume and candy day, and then grew out of it as they got a little older (as used to be the case). Today's marketing will see to it that this doesn't happen. Your kids will not grow out of Halloween, they will grow INTO what Halloween REALLY is. The Halloween customs aren't inherently child's play. That's the problem. The kiddie stuff is the BAIT that hooks us to the holiday. That's why the argument that it is harmless for children is false. They do grow out of the childish aspects and into the darker, more sinister aspects. They will get older, and their celebration will center on the horror, fear, evil, darkness, and excessive indulgence of the flesh (in progressively more wicked forms that go far beyond gorging greedily on candy). Halloween is bigger than ever and darker than ever, and will only get worse as time passes. Our parents before us sent us out trick-or-treating and at that time that's pretty much all there was to it. But now that we have all grown up, we want to keep celebrating the holiday for US not just the kids. Ours is a wicked generation, and it will only get worse.

It seems most of this opinion here is based around fear. This just isn't necessarily true. And so what if they "grow into it"? If parents are teaching their kids correctly, there should be nothing wrong with them "growing into it". Like I stated earlier, there's nothing wrong with my children "growing into" using this day as an opportunity to set a better example or share their faith with those who need to hear it.

Whispering Grace
Oct 9th 2007, 05:48 PM
The only problem there is that you'll be breaking Scriptures direction for dressing modestly. There's no direction in Scripture about not being allowed to wear a costume is there?

One more comment and then I am out of this thread. When the "Pharisee" accusations start flying, it's time to bow out. As someone on another site said, the whole "Pharisee" thing has become the godwin's law of biblical discussion boards.

As to my comment, as I said, it's the participating in an inherently evil holiday I take issue with, not who wears what.

And VR, if what is on the outside does not matter, why would God tell us to be modest? Obviously, He DOES care what's on the outside or there would be no Scripture instructing us on how to dress.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 05:53 PM
One more comment and then I am out of this thread. When the "Pharisee" accusations start flying, it's time to bow out. As someone on another site said, the whole "Pharisee" thing has become the godwin's law of biblical discussion boards.

As to my comment, as I said, it's the participating in an inherently evil holiday I take issue with, not who wears what.

And VR, if what is on the outside does not matter, why would God tell us to be modest? Obviously, He DOES care what's on the outside or there would be no Scripture instructing us on how to dress.

The modest dress issue has to do with causing your brother to sin. I don't think a kid dressed up as Moses is going to cause another to stumble.

In addition, the day is only evil if you make it that way.

Tanya~
Oct 9th 2007, 07:53 PM
Well, if you're teaching your children that it is a good opportunity to witness to others and set a better example for them . . . why wouldn't it be a good thing to do?

Witnessing is always good. But Halloween has nothing to do with witnessing. When Paul used the altar to the unknown God as a springboard to witness to the men in Athens, he didn't offer a sacrifice on the altar. It isn't necessary to participate in Halloween by teaching the children to dress up and go door to door trick-or-treating, in order to witness at Halloween.




What is "anti-Christian" about a kid dressing up as Moses, or even something that has nothing to do with our faith like a football player? Not everything has to be about the devil. It's all what you make of it. It's all where your heart is.

Halloween isn't what I make of it, it's what it is. We are called out of the world, to not participate in the 'unfruitful works of darkness.'



It seems to me it's all about perspective. Otherwise there wouldn't be folks here disagreeing with you. I don't think it has to be a reversal of what God is all about at all.

It is about perspective. The question is what are you doing by encouraging your young kids to participate in it? Do you anticipate that they will grow out of it? But the themes of Halloween are the reversal of all that Christ has come to do for us.


All the things you listed as representing Halloween doesn't represent it to all people. The day doesn't represent death to me. It doesn't represent evil to me. It's all about your own perspective.

These themes don't represent Halloween, they ARE what Halloween is all about. Take away all that stuff, and you don't have Halloween. My kid might be dressed like Moses, but my neighbor's jack-o-lantern looks like someone who has had his brains blown out. How do you separate this stuff out of it for your kids? Your kids will be going door to door, to trick-or-treat, and the neighbors' houses are all decorated with Halloween themed decorations -- dead people half-buried in the yard, witches, and assorted images of all things scary to kids, dark, evil, and occultic. How can a dead person half-buried in the yard not represent death? What is the perspective of the little kid to all this stuff? What are we telling them by encouraging them to participate in it? Do we use these things as an opportunity to teach our children the contrast between good and evil, light and darkness, death and life?



It seems most of this opinion here is based around fear.

Not fear at all. My views are based on conviction that we are called to be separate from the ungodly activities of those who do not know God, including their festival of darkness.


1 Peter 4:3-4
3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles ó when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.


This just isn't necessarily true. And so what if they "grow into it"? If parents are teaching their kids correctly, there should be nothing wrong with them "growing into it". Like I stated earlier, there's nothing wrong with my children "growing into" using this day as an opportunity to set a better example or share their faith with those who need to hear it.

If that is what they're doing with it, then that is great and I applaud you for it. But most of the kids I know who have grown into Halloween do not use it as a witnessing tool. Some of the Christian students I know help at their church Halloween party because it's an alternative, but when the church event is over they go out to their own parties, and they aren't witnessing at these parties. It is a night of sin.

taddy
Oct 9th 2007, 08:05 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a church having a weenie roast on October 31. If Halloween (Helloween as I call it )is not celebrated or even mentioned than it is fine. It's no different than if the weenie roast were on any other day of the year. Being on a certain day does not make it wrong. If the activities are Christ centered than it's fine. By the way, it is the parents place to decide if their kids trick or treat, not the churches.

Also, one church I attended decided to put on a play of David and Goliath on October 31 (which fell on a church night). This way kids were able to dress up in costumes (of Bible Charactors) and learn about standing for God's Word. Afterward the pastor handed candy out to all the children (which he still does after every service). This no more wrong than putting on a play about the birth of Jesus in December.

That's my opinion.

TADDY

diffangle
Oct 9th 2007, 09:21 PM
Then why bring it up to begin with? Seems pretty pointless to me.


Just to give you something to think about in case you were able to see what I was getting at... but once it's established that you don't see it, then oh well. :rolleyes:


We can use the same example as the Christmas thread a couple of weeks ago.

For those opposed to others dressing up in costumes and passing out candy because some folks around the world use this day to worship their pagan gods, do you have money? If so, why do you have money and use it when some people worship it? Using your logic here, aren't you guilty of taking part in that which others worship? Aren't you worshiping someone else's god?

There are examples of Yahushua and the Apostles utilizing money... do we have examples of Yahushua or the Apostles participating in a pagan festival? Using money(a neccessity) is not the same comparison with a once a year pagan worship festival(un-neccessary)... you're comparing apples and...

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 10:18 PM
But Halloween has nothing to do with witnessing.

Why doesn't it? Just because some don't choose to make it about witnessing? It can be about whatever you want it to be about. There isn't a rule book that I know of that says this day has to be about what you are labeling it to be.


When Paul used the altar to the unknown God as a springboard to witness to the men in Athens, he didn't offer a sacrifice on the altar.

Again, 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.


It isn't necessary to participate in Halloween by teaching the children to dress up and go door to door trick-or-treating, in order to witness at Halloween.

Nobody said it was "necessary". However, just because it's not "necessary" doesn't mean it's wrong either.


Halloween isn't what I make of it, it's what it is. We are called out of the world, to not participate in the 'unfruitful works of darkness.'

What "unfruitful works of darkness" am I participating in if I choose to allow my child to dress up as Moses and pass out tracts as a witness to other people. What "unfruitful works of darkness" am I participating in even if I allow my child to dress up as a gorilla and go around asking for candy? Could you point out the Scriptures that state this is sinful and shouldn't be done?


It is about perspective. The question is what are you doing by encouraging your young kids to participate in it? Do you anticipate that they will grow out of it?

Why would I want my children to grow out of what I'm teaching them?


But the themes of Halloween are the reversal of all that Christ has come to do for us.

The themes are what you make them to be. The themes we practice are certainly not a "reversal of all that Christ has come to do for us."


These themes don't represent Halloween, they ARE what Halloween is all about. Take away all that stuff, and you don't have Halloween.

Again, this is not true at all. I know more people than I can think of that don't practice gory horror nonsense on halloween or evil things related to the devil on this particular day. Yet, they still allow their children to dress up in a costume and go about the neighborhood asking folks for candy. It seems to me you are simply making extreme blanket statements encompassing everyone into one big category, and this just isn't the right thing to do.


My kid might be dressed like Moses, but my neighbor's jack-o-lantern looks like someone who has had his brains blown out. How do you separate this stuff out of it for your kids?

The same way you teach your kids that the language and other things they see and hear from the rest of the kids at school is not the way they are to conduct themselves. Do you recommend that all Christian parents snatch their children out of the school system because they will be introduced to things that are not conducive with what you believe, or will you teach your children to be a shining light to those folks who need to see it? Remember . . . we are not to take ourselves out of the world.


Your kids will be going door to door, to trick-or-treat, and the neighbors' houses are all decorated with Halloween themed decorations -- dead people half-buried in the yard, witches, and assorted images of all things scary to kids, dark, evil, and occultic. How can a dead person half-buried in the yard not represent death? What is the perspective of the little kid to all this stuff? What are we telling them by encouraging them to participate in it?

The same argument can be used that we are encouraging our children to participate in the public school system that has essentially written off creation as make believe.


Do we use these things as an opportunity to teach our children the contrast between good and evil, light and darkness, death and life?

Of course we should be teaching our children. If not, they will go off into the world unarmed. This can happen anywhere . . . not just on Halloween. As I've pointed out, it can happen just by going to school.


Not fear at all. My views are based on conviction that we are called to be separate from the ungodly activities of those who do not know God, including their festival of darkness.

Your conviction obviously is not the same as others, and you are certainly obligated to refrain from anything that doesn't sit well with your own conscience. However, if you can't point out the sin with Scriptures to demonstrate your point, telling others it's wrong is nothing but legalism.


It is a night of sin.

What sin is taking place?

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 10:25 PM
Just to give you something to think about in case you were able to see what I was getting at... but once it's established that you don't see it, then oh well. :rolleyes:

Oh I saw what you were getting at, and I made that clear with my last response. I'm just saying that it really has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. Your condescension is noted, however.


There are examples of Yahushua and the Apostles utilizing money...

How could they participate is something that other people worship as their god?


do we have examples of Yahushua or the Apostles participating in a pagan festival?

Well, according to the logic being used here . . . it looks like it. Fortunately, we can be assured that the logic being used in this thread is extremely flawed.


Using money(a neccessity) is not the same comparison with a once a year pagan worship festival(un-neccessary)... you're comparing apples and...

No, it's the same comparison. Money is worshiped. Pagan gods are worshiped. Money is not the true God just like pagan gods are not the true God.

The argument being used here is that Christians should not participate in this holiday because it is idolatry. Well, using the same logic having money is idolatry as well because many worship it.

The truth of the matter is that this logic is flawed all the way around.

DanceswithGod
Oct 9th 2007, 10:32 PM
So, does this mean that anything goes, and even though we call ourselves Christians, we're really no different from the rest of our society around us, and we might as well join in on the fun while we're at it.

I agree, we should witness to the lost world, but do we have to act like the lost world to witness to them? Why do I or my children have to dress up in order to witness to those around me on Halloween? Do I have to drink in order to witness to the party crowd?

spm62
Oct 9th 2007, 10:43 PM
I believe we should be very careful about telling others about what is christian behavior and what isn`t. There are a lot of things that we do in this country that we don`t even think twice about, that if the truth be told, probably isn`t holy or just behavior in the eyes of God. If you wear shorts in the summer or wear a bathing suit at the beach,I doubt that is really showing reverence to God. In Jesus`s day the women were covered head to toe. We have come a long way since then,becoming more and more liberal in our dress. There are a lot of women ,especially from the middle east that find the way women dress in this country to be shameful and immoral...not pleasing to God at all. It`s all about your perspective. We,in this country, find nothing wrong with wearing a bathing suit or wearing shorts because that is what we are used to and it`s what we have grown up with. There are families that go to nudist camps etc. and find nothing wrong or sexual about being totally nude around other people. We may say that is immoral but it`s really perspective. My point is I don`t think God cares anymore about a 5 yr. old walking around in a bunny suit getting candy from friends and neighbors anymore than he does women,or men for that matter,walking around in a so called liberated society dressed in such a way as to show their bodies to the world. Before anybody jumps on me and tells me how this has nothing to do with Halloween, let me explain that I see it as telling someone what is right behavior and what isn`t. If you see it as wrong to have children walking around asking for candy in your neighborhood then don`t participate. If you see it as wrong to show your legs or most of your body to men or the general public then don`t do it. If you think doing any of a number of things dishonors God then don`t do it. Anybody who thinks they are honoring God in all they do or say is probably mistaken. O.K. now you can yell at me and tell me how wrong I am..lol

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 10:44 PM
So, does this mean that anything goes, and even though we call ourselves Christians, we're really no different from the rest of our society around us, and we might as well join in on the fun while we're at it.

Perhaps you can point out where anyone has stated that "anything goes". You know, just because folks do not agree with you point of view doesn't mean we now have to be irrational. Nobody is condoning sin in this thread. However, it seems we have a difference of opinion on where sin is present. If you can lay claim to Scripture that backs your point of view, you are more than encouraged to present it.


I agree, we should witness to the lost world, but do we have to act like the lost world to witness to them?

If sin is going on, no . . . we shouldn't be behaving in such a fashion. However, as has already been pointed out, there is no sin in wearing a costume, passing out candy or anything along those lines. The sin is what is at the heart of the matter.


Do I have to drink in order to witness to the party crowd?

You don't have to drink, but the Word doesn't state it's a sin either. Why are some in this thread so quick to jump on something as sin when the Word makes no mention of it whatsoever as being sin?

DanceswithGod
Oct 9th 2007, 10:48 PM
I'm not saying you are wrong at all, but if I choose not to participate, I shouldn't be criticized by my fellow Christians for not doing so and be told that I am reading too much into it. That's all.

Tanya~
Oct 9th 2007, 11:00 PM
Again, 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

Why stop there? Read the next chapter too, because his thought doesn't end with verse 23. He wasn't giving believers the go-ahead to participate in idolatry with the world at all. He said in fact that we are to flee from it. Eating food isn't the same as performing a ritual. The Halloween customs are rituals that people perform each year for Halloween and for no other reason.

I think American Christians are in denial about what the NT says about idolatry because it is so deeply entrenched in our culture and we love to participate in it.


1 John 5:18-21

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

spm62
Oct 9th 2007, 11:17 PM
Do any of us really live for God the way we ought to. Whether we`re trying to tie some 5 yr old walking around in a bunny suit getting candy from her friends and neighbors to some pagan cult or hording money away in our 401ks and retirements while people are starving to death or dieing from disease everyday. My point is NOBODY lives up to God`s standards. As soon as you point the finger at what someone should or shouldn`t be doing or speaking for God and saying God doesn`t approve of this or that, we should really look at the speck in our own eye. Again,if it`s something you feel convicted about then don`t do it. Like I stated in my previous post,some people think wearing shorts or women wearing pants or a bathing suit in public is not honoring to God. Act as you feel convicted, but don`t judge whether someone should or shouldn`t be doing something unless you live perfectly.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 11:35 PM
Why stop there? Read the next chapter too, because his thought doesn't end with verse 23. He wasn't giving believers the go-ahead to participate in idolatry with the world at all.

Could you point out where I stated that he did tell folks to participate in idolatry? I pointed out 1 Corinthians 9 for the fact that Paul stated that he became as a Jew under the law to win some. Does that mean that Paul was indeed truly under the law just because he acted as though he was? No, it doesn't. Paul understood something that many here are obviously missing. The heart of the matter is what counts.


He said in fact that we are to flee from it.

And I agree with him. However, idolatry always has and always will be a spiritual matter. It's a matter of the heart and not in what one eats, costumes they where, and so on.


Eating food isn't the same as performing a ritual. The Halloween customs are rituals that people perform each year for Halloween and for no other reason.

Wearing a costume may be a "ritual" for some but not for all. Again, you are making blanket statements.


I think American Christians are in denial about what the NT says about idolatry because it is so deeply entrenched in our culture and we love to participate in it.

And I would say that many in this thread do not truly understand what idolatry is.

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 11:36 PM
I'm not saying you are wrong at all, but if I choose not to participate, I shouldn't be criticized by my fellow Christians for not doing so and be told that I am reading too much into it. That's all.

Who's criticizing you for not participating? I don't care what you participate in as long as it's not sin. You have the liberty to do whatever you wish.

spm62
Oct 9th 2007, 11:38 PM
LOL I love you guys

VerticalReality
Oct 9th 2007, 11:41 PM
Again I ask you, TanyaP. Do you have money?

spm62
Oct 9th 2007, 11:49 PM
I don`t..not enough anyway. Just in case someone had more than their share and wanted to help a brother out.

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 12:25 AM
How could they participate is something that other people worship as their god?


What are the specific religious/universal rituals of the money god festival?

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 12:33 AM
Saving and hording money for future retirement which may or may not come while Gods children are suffering and starving today. Putting your trust in money,that it will bring you comfort in your old age. That is idolatry whether we admit it or not. Doesn`t he say don`t give a thought about tomorrow..tomorrow will take care of itself. If he clothes the lilly of the fields and feeds the robin and birds of the air how much more will he take care of you? Would you not agree that there are people who need our care and money today..people who have nothing? But we save our money so we can live a comfortable life 30 years from now. Is that really living for God? Is that honoring God?

Tanya~
Oct 10th 2007, 12:40 AM
Again I ask you, TanyaP. Do you have money?

Yes, but that is irrelevant to the custom of celebrating Halloween.

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 12:47 AM
Saving and hording money for future retirement which may or may not come while Gods children are suffering and starving today. Putting your trust in money,that it will bring you comfort in your old age. That is idolatry whether we admit it or not. Doesn`t he say don`t give a thought about tomorrow..tomorrow will take care of itself. If he clothes the lilly of the fields and feeds the robin and birds of the air how much more will he take care of you? Would you not agree that there are people who need our care and money today..people who have nothing? But we save our money so we can live a comfortable life 30 years from now. Is that really living for God? Is that honoring God?
Okay so then we could probably agree that Yahushua and the Apostles didn't do any of that so while they earned and spent money they weren't participating in the idolatry practices of it... we don't see an example that even comes close to Yahushua or the Apostles participating in the rituals of pagan festivals. Btw... I evidently don't practice any of the rituals of the money god festival. :lol:

ProjectPeter
Oct 10th 2007, 01:01 AM
Okay so then we could probably agree that Yahushua and the Apostles didn't do any of that so while they earned and spent money they weren't participating in the idolatry practices of it... we don't see an example that even comes close to Yahushua or the Apostles participating in the rituals of pagan festivals. Btw... I evidently don't practice any of the rituals of the money god festival. :lol:
Shoot... I ain't got enough money to be invited! ;)

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 01:06 AM
:kiss: Yes we can agree that the apostles did not do that. But in terms of idolatry..this society is all about money. Even the christian churches telling people to go in debt and charge their credit card to support their church. I don`t believe God cares anymore about a child drerssed up in a bunny suit getting candy from friends any more than he does us neglecting the poor,hungry and needy so we can spend money on a bigger house,nicer car,more comfortable surroundings. Which is the greater evil?

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 01:09 AM
:kiss: Yes we can agree that the apostles did not do that. But in terms of idolatry..this society is all about money. Even the christian churches telling people to go in debt and charge their credit card to support their church. I don`t believe God cares anymore about a child drerssed up in a bunny suit getting candy from friends any more than he does us neglecting the poor,hungry and needy so we can spend money on a bigger house,nicer car,more comfortable surroundings. Which is the greater evil?
Imo, both are bad. :saint:

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 01:11 AM
Shoot... I ain't got enough money to be invited! ;)
You ain't alone. :D

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 01:15 AM
Please don`t be upset with the little guy who comes to your house dressed as a fireman with a little bag asking for candy. He may be unaware that out there, somewhere, someone is doing something bad on that particular night. He just wants some candy! :hug:

VerticalReality
Oct 10th 2007, 01:45 AM
What are the specific religious/universal rituals of the money god festival?

The same as any other form of idolatry. You know what the requirements are to be considered idolatry, correct?

Tanya~
Oct 10th 2007, 01:45 AM
Please don`t be upset with the little guy who comes to your house dressed as a fireman with a little bag asking for candy. He may be unaware that out there, somewhere, someone is doing something bad on that particular night. He just wants some candy! :hug:

That's true and I certainly am not upset with or even addressing little children. They're just doing what their parents tell them to do. :)

VerticalReality
Oct 10th 2007, 01:46 AM
Yes, but that is irrelevant to the custom of celebrating Halloween.

Why is it irrellevant? Idolatry is idolatry, and God hates it in all its forms. He hates it whether it be about money or about some pagan god someone has created in their own heart.

VerticalReality
Oct 10th 2007, 01:47 AM
Okay so then we could probably agree that Yahushua and the Apostles didn't do any of that so while they earned and spent money they weren't participating in the idolatry practices of it... we don't see an example that even comes close to Yahushua or the Apostles participating in the rituals of pagan festivals. Btw... I evidently don't practice any of the rituals of the money god festival. :lol:

Why couldn't you consider Jesus Christ or the apostles idolatrous when they were using the same thing that other people worship?

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 01:48 AM
Please don`t be upset with the little guy who comes to your house dressed as a fireman with a little bag asking for candy. He may be unaware that out there, somewhere, someone is doing something bad on that particular night. He just wants some candy! :hug:
No worries there, I don't get upset that easily. ;) Plus, there's no trick or treater's coming to my door b/c I live in the back house of my property and I don't exactly turn on all the lights, open up the drapes, and have the house decorated with jack o lanterns. :D

VerticalReality
Oct 10th 2007, 01:49 AM
That's true and I certainly am not upset with or even addressing little children. They're just doing what their parents tell them to do. :)

I don't recall my parents ever "telling" me to go trick or treating. Why do you make blanket statements toward everything?

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 01:55 AM
What are the specific religious/universal rituals of the money god festival?


Saving and hording money for future retirement which may or may not come while Gods children are suffering and starving today. Putting your trust in money,that it will bring you comfort in your old age. That is idolatry whether we admit it or not. Doesn`t he say don`t give a thought about tomorrow..tomorrow will take care of itself. If he clothes the lilly of the fields and feeds the robin and birds of the air how much more will he take care of you? Would you not agree that there are people who need our care and money today..people who have nothing? But we save our money so we can live a comfortable life 30 years from now. Is that really living for God? Is that honoring God?


Why couldn't you consider Jesus Christ or the apostles idolatrous when they were using the same thing that other people worship?

Spm62 answered my above question but you didn't... would you agree with him/her that those are the rituals? If so then Yahushua and the Apostles wouldn't fit in that catagory.

VerticalReality
Oct 10th 2007, 02:03 AM
Spm62 answered my above question but you didn't... would you agree with him/her that those are the rituals? If so then Yahushua and the Apostles wouldn't fit in that catagory.

Idolatry is simply worshiping something instead of the Living God. Idolatry is devoting ones' life to something other than the Lord. That is idolatry. The reason Jesus Christ and the apostles could have and use money when others worshiped it was because worship was not their intention, and they didn't have money lifted up in their hearts above the Living God. It's silly that we're sitting here dodging all around the question. It's a really simple answer. The fact that we are tells me that some aren't interested in another's opinion but rather just winning an argument. That's why I'm going to go ahead and call this thread dead (no pun intended:lol:) after this post.

The fact of the matter is that you can have money and partake of it if you aren't worshiping it instead of the Living God. The same can be said of dressing up in costumes, passing out candy or whatever else that isn't sinful in and of itself. There is no sin in wearing a costume. There is no sin in passing out candy. God knows whether or not we are doing some sort of "ritual" to some pagan god or not. He knows what it is in our heart. Likewise, if we are using these opportunities to bring glory to the name of Jesus Christ by witnessing or just being a better example to others, our Lord knows the heart of the matter. That is what truly matters here.

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 02:04 AM
That's true and I certainly am not upset with or even addressing little children. They're just doing what their parents tell them to do. :)

Well actually, A lot of children are doing it because they want to. They like getting dressed up and getting candy. Most would probably be upset if they couldn`t go! :kiss:

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 02:11 AM
Idolatry is simply worshiping something instead of the Living God. Idolatry is devoting ones' life to something other than the Lord. That is idolatry. The reason Jesus Christ and the apostles could have and use money when others worshiped it was because worship was not their intention, and they didn't have money lifted up in their hearts above the Living God. It's silly that we're sitting here dodging all around the question. It's a really simple answer. The fact that we are tells me that some aren't interested in another's opinion but rather just winning an argument. That's why I'm going to go ahead and call this thread dead (no pun intended:lol:) after this post.

The fact of the matter is that you can have money and partake of it if you aren't worshiping it instead of the Living God. The same can be said of dressing up in costumes, passing out candy or whatever else that isn't sinful in and of itself. There is no sin in wearing a costume. There is no sin in passing out candy. God knows whether or not we are doing some sort of "ritual" to some pagan god or not. He knows what it is in our heart. Likewise, if we are using these opportunities to bring glory to the name of Jesus Christ by witnessing or just being a better example to others, our Lord knows the heart of the matter. That is what truly matters here.
Okay but we know that Halloween is a main holiday that pagans do in order to worship their gods and YHWH does have something against His people adopting the worship practices of the pagans and calling it worship of Him...

Deut 12

29When YHWH thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
30Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
31Thou shalt not do so unto YHWH thy God: for every abomination to YHWH, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
32What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 02:15 AM
Well actually, A lot of children are doing it because they want to. They like getting dressed up and getting candy. Most would probably be upset if they couldn`t go! :kiss:
When my parents told me and my siblings that we were going to quit celebrating the pagan festivals they explained why and we kids were completely satisfied with quitting them.

Toymom
Oct 10th 2007, 02:17 AM
When my parents told me and my siblings that we were going to quit celebrating the pagan festivals they explained why and we kids were completely satisfied with quitting them.
really? how old were you then? did all your friends still do it? what did you tell them about why you were not celebrating them?

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 02:24 AM
When my parents told me and my siblings that we were going to quit celebrating the pagan festivals they explained why and we kids were completely satisfied with quitting them.

WOW ! You were celebrating pagan festivals? I can see why you wanted to stop. Us? We were just having fun walking with friends and getting free candy. I couldn`t tell you what the pagans were doing. :kiss:

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 02:24 AM
really?
Yes


how old were you then?
I was about 12, my sis 7, my bro 5.


did all your friends still do it?
Yes


what did you tell them about why you were not celebrating them?
I told them what my parents told me.

Tanya~
Oct 10th 2007, 02:26 AM
Why is it irrellevant? Idolatry is idolatry, and God hates it in all its forms. He hates it whether it be about money or about some pagan god someone has created in their own heart.

Having money isn't idolatry. I don't see how you can equate having money or using money with performing annual holiday rituals.

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 02:41 AM
I couldn`t tell you what the pagans were doing. :kiss:
The same thing you were doing. ;)

"During this diabolical ceremony the PEOPLE WORE COSTUMES made of animal heads and skins... All of this was done to frighten the evil spirits away.

In the 11th edition of Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 12, page 8578 it states, "It was the Druids belief that on the eve of this festival (November 1st, Celtic New Year) Saman, lord of death, called together the wicked souls (Spirits) that within the past twelve months had been condemned to inhabit the bodies of animals." Saman would then send these evil spirits to attack people on the eve before the November 1st celebration. The only way these people could escape was by assuming disguises and looking like evil spirits themselves.


Now, just by chance if you had forgotten to dress up or could not fool the demons by dressing in animal skins or other disguises, there was a way to exorcise them. You were to set out a TREAT of food and fruit, and provide the wandering spirit with shelter for the night. If the demon was satisfied with your TREAT, it was believed that they would not TRICK you by casting an evil spell on you causing havoc."


From http://www.logosresourcepages.org/Holidays/halloween.htm

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 02:57 AM
Thank God we weren`t doing that. We were just getting candy. :pp

diffangle
Oct 10th 2007, 03:14 AM
Thank God we weren`t doing that. We were just getting candy. :pp
If you went to a party and someone had an idol and an alter set up... served you some meat but first told you it was sacrificed to their idol... would you eat it?

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 04:02 AM
Nah...I never was invited to those parties. Everyone I hung out with went to my church.

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 05:14 AM
or after getting bags of free candy, sometimes we would trade the candy we didn`t like for something someone else had. If someone had a party after we got free candy,then we would pin the tail on the donkey,bob for apples,play games ..only if halloween was on a weekend. I didn`t really associate us having fun with some ancient ritual or something some weird cult was doing on the other side of town. But hey, if somewhere over the centuries people highjacked a day, that the pagans used for something bad, took it away from them and changed it into something fun..great. Please don`t tell me I`m doomed to hell for bobing for apples,pinning the tail on the donkey, dressing up like popeye and getting candy from my neighbors...:pray: I would be scarred for life. Next thing you know I`ll be doomed to outer darkness because I believed in a little fat man with a white beard who brought me presents. :kiss: luv ya!

Theophilus
Oct 10th 2007, 12:18 PM
The sarcasm is over the top, and the graciousness is pretty much gone...

Reviewed and locked.