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Trees
Oct 9th 2007, 10:21 PM
Hey everyone. I was just curious about this because I have very religious people in my family but they gamble (slot machines, lottery, etc.) and I don't recall reading it was bad in the Bible but maybe it was covered under something else that didn't exactly CALL it gambling. Any thoughts on if it's wrong or not? Or maybe just if you let it take over your life as an addiction but okay if it's harmless one-in-a-while fun.

-Trees
http://display4you.angelfire.com/jesus2display/

TEITZY
Oct 9th 2007, 11:30 PM
Here's a couple of old posts that might be helpful.

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=34006
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=85562

My short answer to your question is YES, gambling is sinful and does go against certain Biblical priniciples such as stewardship and faith. I think generally most Christians would have an issue with it while others may see it as 'harmless' in some situations.

Cheers
Leigh

spm62
Oct 9th 2007, 11:47 PM
Investing in the stock market is gambling if you want to get down to the letter of the law...lol. That`s the point on a lot of Christian threads (not this one..so far) lol, a lot of Christians love to point out what others are doing wrong up to a certain point. Whether it`s gambling, drinking, cussing, or children wearing bunny outfits and walking around their neighborhood getting candy. But nobody really wants live by the law..all the way, I know I don`t. That`s because nobody does. Some people would like to think they live a Godly life. Compared to Jesus we all fall short..every day.Thank God Jesus came.

Trees
Oct 9th 2007, 11:56 PM
Thanks, TEITZY. Seems like people are divided between the subject. I suppose the money spent gambling could go to better things, but then again, if one has worked hard for the money and they've paid their bills, etc. and just wanna have a little fun, they should be allowed to. I like collecting little things in those toy machines for a quarter or fifty cents and even that's a gamble since they don't always send something out the little slot. But to those who think gambling is wrong, why do churches have bazaars and have the spinning money wheels and other games (peel-off Bingo, drawings, etc) to raise money? If the money is going towards the church, does that make it right? And if you win money FROM the games, should you feel guilty for taking it? I know I've lost a LOT of quarters at church bazaars, but I did come away with a giant blow-up Spider-Man doll (okay, my mom won that for me, hehe). I have an "addiction" to donation tins. Can't pass one by without putting in some change. I don't work so it's not like I have a lot of cash to spare, but I don't mind donating to causes when I can. I like to think if I wanna put some quarters into a game and try to win something back, it's better than spending ALL my money. I decide how much I'm willing to lose and don't spend any more than that. Oops, rambling now.

Trees
Oct 10th 2007, 12:02 AM
Investing in the stock market is gambling if you want to get down to the letter of the law...lol. That`s the point on a lot of Christian threads (not this one..so far) lol, a lot of Christians love to point out what others are doing wrong up to a certain point. Whether it`s gambling, drinking, cussing, or children wearing bunny outfits and walking around their neighborhood getting candy. But nobody really wants live by the law..all the way, I know I don`t. That`s because nobody does. Some people would like to think they live a Godly life. Compared to Jesus we all fall short..every day.Thank God Jesus came.

I think as long as someone is trying and does good when they can (as in not running around doing bad things purposely that hurt others), that's way better than not caring at all. If we avoided one bad thing out of 5, it's better than doing all 5 bad things, you know? Some people just don't care if they do all or none and I think that's where the difference is. I mean, if Person A drinks but doesn't smoke OR gamble, they'd probably wag a finger at Person B who smokes AND gambles but doesn't drink. Person B does 2 out of 3 bad things so Person A feels superior because they only do 1 of 3. But Person B (who does 2 of 3) feels superior over Person C who does all 3. Of course if Person D does 0 of 3, they're the "better" person of them all. But then they're ALL "better" than Person E who does all 3 bad things, so at least the others can at least keep from doing one bad thing. And I think that came out a lot more complicated than I intended, lol!

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 12:37 AM
:confused :hmm: I`m confused..lol if we`re guilty of one letter of the law..we`re guilty of all of it.

Trees
Oct 10th 2007, 01:08 AM
:confused :hmm: I`m confused..lol if we`re guilty of one letter of the law..we`re guilty of all of it.

I'm always the first to admit I TRY to follow the Bible and all it says, but slip a lot. Some people choose to believe they follow it 100% even if they don't and they don't listen when you call them on it. Weird how that works. But I think if you do even just ONE thing right instead of choosing the wrong option, that's better than nothing at all. It's a start int eh right direction, at least.

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 01:20 AM
I learned a long time ago to stop judging and pointing out others faults...I`m having enought trouble on my own. We should work out our salvation with fear and trembling.....:kiss:

Trees
Oct 10th 2007, 01:28 AM
I learned a long time ago to stop judging and pointing out others faults...I`m having enought trouble on my own. We should work out our salvation with fear and trembling.....:kiss:

Amen to that! Now if only everyone felt that way, lol!

th1bill
Oct 10th 2007, 04:03 AM
.. To gamble one must lust, even if it's just a teeny-weeny bit, there's lust for the other's money and lust is forbidden. Some have suggested and I see it has appeared here that we should be okay as long as we are doing more good than bad. If that were the case the average prison inmate would be doomed to hell, straight up.
.. God does not grade on the cure and the top of the curve goes to heaven and all the rest go to Hell. We intend to sin before we are saved. I never went to a game room when I was not saved to play poker by accident, I planned to be there. I made and executed my plan to sin. Since I have taken the LORD for my Savior I do still sin on occasion but I repent of it and I never make plans to do a sin. If you are planning to enter that ten dollar, quarter limit game Saturday Evening with the purpose of walking out of there with the winnings, you are planning to sin so tell me, "What is the difference between you and the garden variety sinner?"

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 04:17 AM
Nothing..we are all sinners. Paul said he does what he doesn`t want to do. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. So you are right..God doesn`t grade on a curve. Because no matter how righteous a christian thinks they live,there is always someone sitting in the next pue who lives more righteous than they do,and then someone living more righteous than them and so on and so on. Jesus said if you`ve even looked at someone with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. You don`t even have to do the act. That was to show the pious religious people that they were sinners and always will be as long as they live in this fleshly body. It doesn`t matter if you sin once a day or once a week, you`re still sinning and if you are sinning,then you are knowingly doing so. Only God knows a persons heart and only he will judge a righteous judgement because no sinful earthly human being has the right or the authority to judge anyone else. It would be like, to use an old expression, the pot calling the kettle black. No one is worthy but Christ. How can one sinner judge another? Thank God for his grace and mercy.

TrustGzus
Oct 10th 2007, 08:58 AM
I have found Christian arguments against gambling unconvincing. There is no single Scripture that forbids it. Christians who are against gambling must use some sort of syllogism. For those who consider it unclean, they should not gamble.

Having said that, gambling obviously is addicting to many people and thus causes many hardships once addicted. But so does food. So is eating a sin? Of course not. Eating's not a sin, but it's excess, gluttony, is.

People will point to stewardship. It's easy to make a multiplicity of things a sin under the banner of stewardship. Is going to a ball game good stewardship? Is buying a box of twinkies good stewardship? Is buying a PlayStation good stewardship?

I think if gambling is done wisely, then it can simply be another form of entertainment. One man that I am acquainted with does it well. He sets aside a certain amount of money he's willing to gamble. He sticks that money in his right pocket. As he gambles, if he wins, he puts that money in his left pocket and he is not allowed to touch that. When the right pocket is empty, he goes home.

If someone has an approach like that, and decides once per paycheck they will dedicate $50 or $100 or whatever to gambling (legally), i.e. they budget their gambling, then I think it's hard to argue against it. It's just entertainment. If I go to the movies and take my wife and three kids, even during the matinée hours I spend close to $30 getting in. Then if we eat, forget it. I can easily spend $75 to go to some movie. It's hard for me to argue against the guy who does budgeted gambling unless I have a chapter and verse that categorically condemn it. I haven't found that verse yet.

Personally, I don't gamble in the formal sense of the word. I do have a 401. Is that gambling? Some probably would say "yes".

This reminds me of a story related by Pastor John Courson in his comments on Romans 14 . . .
Charles Haddon Spurgeon could not understand how Joseph Parker could go to the theatre and watch plays. Parker, on the other hand, came down on Spurgeon, saying he couldn’t understand how Spurgeon could smoke cigars. Both of these men were powerful preachers who were greatly used by the Lord, and yet they had a public fight. Spurgeon finally gave up smoking in his later years when one day he opened the London Times and saw a full-page cigar ad under the headline, “The Cigar that Charles Spurgeon Smokes.”

Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (984). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.

Phil Fourie
Oct 10th 2007, 09:25 AM
I see it as shifting your trust in God to trust in mammon.

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Matthew 6:24

Ask yourself what the main aim of gambling is; money;)

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Genesis 3:19

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exodus 20:9

A casino is not a place where people depend on God, it is a place of drinking and gambling. Sorry, I can't justify gambling.

God bless
Phil

PS! Please, don't see this as me being judgemental, for I am also a sinner, I am just answering the question:)

godsgirl
Oct 10th 2007, 02:52 PM
It's funny, everytime a Christian takes a stand on righteousness-someone is sure to come up with the line-"we'll we all sin". Gambling is wrong because it goes against the principles outlined in the Word for Christians-period.

spm62
Oct 10th 2007, 04:39 PM
It`s also funny how certain Christians love to point out certain rules of what you can and can`t do as it pertains to their own interpretations of scripture. But when they take that interpretation to it`s fullest extent and realize that they themselves are guilty of the same thing ,they take offense. :kiss:

TrustGzus
Oct 10th 2007, 05:19 PM
It's funny, everytime a Christian takes a stand on righteousness-someone is sure to come up with the line-"we'll we all sin". Gambling is wrong because it goes against the principles outlined in the Word for Christians-period.Which principles are those?

godsgirl
Oct 10th 2007, 08:23 PM
Which principles are those?


A careful reading of Scripture makes it clear there are numerous biblical principles which indicate gambling is an evil to be avoided. When people recognize God's authority they will honor the principles which indicate gambling is evil.


1. Gambling is wrong because it is a disregard of responsible stewardship.
The Bible clearly teaches that all things belong to God. "The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it" (Psalm 24:1). Since all things belong to God, people are placed in the position of stewards who must give a proper accounting for everything given to them in trust.
The first step in a faithful administration of this stewardship is the giving of self to God. Believers must recognize they are not their own (1 Corinthians 6:19). They have been redeemed with a price, not of silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Jesus (1 Peter 1:18,19). The churches of Macedonia set a worthy example of personal dedication when "they gave themselves first to the Lord" (2 Corinthians 8:5). Life, with all it involves, is a stewardship to be administered for the glory of God.
People who honestly dedicate themselves to God will also recognize that all they possess must be handled as a stewardship. The Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30) indicates that the good and faithful servants administered the talents entrusted to them in such a way that the master was pleased. The wicked and slothful servant failed in his administration and suffered the appropriate consequences.
When people recognize their stewardship responsibilities they will not consider gambling in any form a proper administration of divinely bestowed resources, time, and ability. Even the ethics of the world will not tolerate those who gamble with resources put in their trust. Christian responsibility transcends all other responsibility, and for the Christian, gambling is wrong. It is a total disregard of the principle of stewardship. It is a prostitution of God-given assets which should be used to glorify God and advance His kingdom.
2. Gambling is wrong because it involves a chance of gain at the expense and suffering of others.
The nature of gambling is such that a person has a chance of gain only because others have suffered loss. The economic benefits come only to a very few. The financial loss is borne by many who usually can least afford it. The fact that people involved in gambling are commonly referred to in derogatory terms by its promoters is an indication of the status to which they are reduced. Whether or not the financial loss is excessive, gamblers are basically the losers while the operators of gambling establishments are the winners.
The suffering caused by gambling is totally inconsistent with the teaching of Scripture concerning love. Not only is the Christian to love those who are lovable, but even enemies. God's people are to love their neighbors as themselves. The principle of love will prevent Christians from gambling because of the damage it does to others. The principle of love will cause Christians to oppose any effort by the state or any other organization to legalize any activity based on a weakness of people which degrades society.
William Temple, late Archbishop of Canterbury, stated the Christian position well when he wrote:

Gambling challenges that view of life which the Christian church exists to uphold and extend. Its glorification of mere chance is a denial of the divine order of nature. To risk money haphazardly is to disregard the insistence of the Church in every age of living faith that possessions are a trust, and that men must account to God for their use. The persistent appeal to covetousness is fundamentally opposed to the unselfishness which was taught by Jesus Christ and by the New Testament as a whole. The attempt (inseparable from gambling) to make profit out of the inevitable loss and possible suffering of others is the antithesis of that love of one's neighbor on which our Lord insisted.33. Gambling is wrong because it is inconsistent with the work ethic of Scripture.
Throughout Scripture the importance of work is emphasized. In several places the correlation between working and eating is stated. The Old Testament reminds us, "He who works his land will have abundant food" (Proverbs 12:11).
In the New Testament the same principle is stated with great forcefulness. To the Thessalonians Paul wrote: "When we were with you, we gave you this rule: 'If a man will not work, he shall not eat' " (2 Thessalonians 3:10).
Not only does the Bible require that one should work for the necessities of life, but it also warns against the something for nothing, get-rich-quick approach. "One eager to get rich will not go unpunished" (Proverbs 28:20). "He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil [envious] eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him" (Proverbs 28:22, KJV). "Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow" (Proverbs 13:11).
In the wisdom of God work was assigned in the garden of Eden even before the Fall (Genesis 2:15ff; cf.1:28). Though sin resulted in a change of the nature of work (Genesis 3:17,19), the responsibility of working was never rescinded. Any effort to circumvent the work ethic of Scripture can result only in failure. Gambling, whether to secure wealth in a hurry or to place bread on the table, is inconsistent with what the Bible teaches about work.
4. Gambling is wrong because it tends to be habit forming.
Gambling, like other evils, has a tendency to become an addiction. As in the case of alcoholics and drug addicts, compulsive gamblers are dominated to the extent that they risk not only money, but everything meaningful in life. They have lost control of themselves.
This condition is contrary to the teaching of Scripture. The Word of God points out that a Christian will refuse to be brought under the power even of lawful things (1 Corinthians 6:12). The person indwelled by the Holy Spirit will be characterized by temperance, or self-control (Galatians 5:23).
Those who have studied gambling addiction seem to agree there are six symptoms characteristic of compulsive gambling: (1) The activity becomes chronically repetitive. (2) It becomes a mania which precludes all other interests, including the home. (3) A pathologic optimism replaces the ability to learn from previous losing experiences. (4) The ability to stop in a winning situation no longer exists. (5) In spite of initial decisions to gamble only so much the addict invariably risks too much. (6) The activity seems to produce an enjoyable tension consisting of both pain and pleasure.
It is obvious that habitual gamblers are under the control of the compulsion to gamble. Rather than being servants of God, they are servants of a desire they cannot handle. Paul described the condition clearly when he wrote, "Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey?" (Romans 6:16). Because of the degrading possibility of addiction, gambling should be considered an evil.

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_4186_gambling.cfm

Trees
Oct 11th 2007, 12:21 AM
Hm. I'm guessing that based on some of these ideas, one shouldn't take risks. Like flying. People don't really belong in the sky so every time we get on a plane, it's risking our lives. Or sky-diving, bungee jumping, etc. You know you could get hurt doing these things, but do them anyway. And if you don't do them because you're afraid, then that shows a lack of faith that God will watch over you. I think just about everything could be turned around so that it goes against God in some way or another. We (and the world) have evolved so much and nothing is as it used to be. I'd say gambling (or ANYthing done in unhealthy amounts) is definitely wrong. But doing it and being able to walk away from it at any time doesn't seem wrong when you think of all the worse things one could be doing. Spending $100,000 on a sports car seems a bit more careless than playing the slots a few times a year.

Brother Mark
Oct 11th 2007, 12:31 AM
1. Gambling is wrong because it is a disregard of responsible stewardship.

I see little difference in putting a quarter in a slot machine for entertainment and putting a quarter in a pin ball machine for entertainment. If one is bad stewardship then both are. Not sure either is if done for relaxation.



2. Gambling is wrong because it involves a chance of gain at the expense and suffering of others.

Actually, casinos win more than they lose. So putting quarters in slot machines doesn't hurt them. They provide entertainment and the user provides the cash for that entertainment. Done in moderation, it's a win/win scenario.


3. Gambling is wrong because it is inconsistent with the work ethic of Scripture.

Professional gamblers put tremendous time and effort into their profession. To say it's not work is not really accurate. But back to the casual gambler, the guy that puts a quarter in a slot machine is still working for a living. Just having a relaxing visit to a casino.

4. Gambling is wrong because it tends to be habit forming.

If one can't gamble in moderation, then they shouldn't gamble at all. Many things in life can be addictive, that doesn't make them wrong. Pain medication can be addictive and many people get addicted to them, does that make them sinful? Being addicted is a sin. An activity that one MIGHT get addicted to is not sinful.

Trees
Oct 11th 2007, 12:44 AM
If one can't gamble in moderation, then they shouldn't gamble at all. Many things in life can be addictive, that doesn't make them wrong. Pain medication can be addictive and many people get addicted to them, does that make them sinful? Being addicted is a sin. An activity that one MIGHT get addicted to is not sinful.

Excellent post! I think we all agree that addiction is wrong. Though is it a sin if it's something that can't be helped? Some people have a low tolerance for things and get addicted and didn't MEAN to.

Brother Mark
Oct 11th 2007, 12:48 AM
Excellent post! I think we all agree that addiction is wrong. Though is it a sin if it's something that can't be helped? Some people have a low tolerance for things and get addicted and didn't MEAN to.

No temptation takes us except that which is common to man, and with temptation, God always provides a way of escape. Always.