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mikebr
Oct 16th 2007, 01:04 AM
Bono and Bill Hybels recently sat down and discussed the role of Christians in the world.

Can be seen here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ilSef9kJapo

jeffreys
Oct 16th 2007, 01:06 AM
Is Bono a prophet? No more than anybody else.

I think he has some good things to say, some of which have actually been ignored by many Christians. But to look at him as a modern day prophet is a pretty huge leap.

Jeff Mills
Oct 16th 2007, 01:58 AM
May i ask if Bono is even a Christian. If so, how do we know?

jeffreys
Oct 16th 2007, 03:16 AM
May i ask if Bono is even a Christian. If so, how do we know?

Well... Bono claims to be a Christian. Is his faith legit, and is he "really" a Christian? I don't know, and I'm not going to waste time trying to make that judgment call.

http://www.worldmag.com/articles/10892

Sold Out
Oct 16th 2007, 12:47 PM
Bono and Bill Hybels recently sat down and discussed the role of Christians in the world.

Can be seen here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ilSef9kJapo

I believe that Bono is probably a saved man. He doesn't always exhibit the best Christian behavior though.

As far as a prophet? No

jeffreys
Oct 16th 2007, 12:58 PM
I believe that Bono is probably a saved man. He doesn't always exhibit the best Christian behavior though.

As far as a prophet? No

That's a very good point. I'm not at all fond of his coarse language, and I really wish he wouldn't use such words. But that doesn't mean that, in his heart, he's not fully in love with the Lord. It means that the outward man hasn't completely been given over.


Plus... I like his music! ;)

Sold Out
Oct 16th 2007, 02:03 PM
Bono, one of the worldís most famous rock stars, and a Christian (yes, you can be a rock star and a Christian), in an interview with Michka Assayas, a French music journalist, in March of 2004 was correct when he described the difference between Karma (works of righteous) and grace. He said,

ďYou see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you; an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics-in physical laws-every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. Itís clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. Iím absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that ďas you reap, so you will sowĒ stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because Iíve done a lot of stupid stuff.Ē (So have we all, Bono.).

Bono went on to say,

ďIíd be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge.Ē (So would we all, Bono.). ďIíd be in deep Ö. It doesnít excuse my mistakes, but Iím holding out for Grace. Iím holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I donít have to depend on my own religiosity.Ē

Bono continued,

ďBut I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. Thatís the point. It should keep us humbledÖ. Itís not our own good works (Karma) that get us through the gates of heaven.Ē

Well said! Itís not what we do (works of righteous - Karma) that gets us to Heaven, but what CHRIST did for us on Calvary.

rchivers
Oct 16th 2007, 02:46 PM
I never paid much attention to the guy but after watching those videos I now have a lot of respect for him. How cool is it that someone with so much fame actually cares about people other than himself. Awesome!

jeffreys
Oct 16th 2007, 02:58 PM
I never paid much attention to the guy but after watching those videos I now have a lot of respect for him. How cool is it that someone with so much fame actually cares about people other than himself. Awesome!

You're right.

One of the big problems I see with celebrities is what seems to be an ego-maniacal self-obsession. It's as though the world outside their egos simply does not exist.

On the other hand, there are far too many Christians - and too many churches - that totally ignore the problems of poverty and other human suffering. It's almost as though we've removed ourselves so far from the world that we're ignoring it.

third hero
Oct 16th 2007, 06:34 PM
I am kind of torn on this one. Bono, like the prophets of today and of old, tells the truth concerning the people and concerning the truth of Christ being th Son of God. I particularly like his approach to salvation, explaining the difference betwen karma and grace. (For the record, karma is not righteous acts, but actions in general. They can be either good or evil, and most times, karma is called into play when we do evil. So, righteous acts are not part of the karma scheme).

Is Bono a prophet? Yes, and no. He is not prophesying or anything like that. However, like a prophet, he is calling both the churches and the world to account for the poor and downtrodden.

mikebr
Oct 16th 2007, 11:10 PM
May i ask if Bono is even a Christian. If so, how do we know?


Not to be too abrasive, but may I ask are you a Christian? I see that you say that you are, but how do any of us know if any of us are. We are known by our fruits and Bono is exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit more than anyone I see in our churches. He's dead on about a lot of things that the church has missed out on.

BTW I have no doubt that you are a Christian.:hug:

mikebr
Oct 16th 2007, 11:15 PM
However, like a prophet, he is calling both the churches and the world to account for the poor and downtrodden.

This is exactly why I ask the question? In a culture of mega churches we are more interested in our own comfort than what's biblical. Is God really blessing our huge sound systems, our multimillion dollar buildings and budgets?

Its sad that a rock musician is having to say these things. Where's the church in the AIDS crisis? Where am I?

daughter
Oct 16th 2007, 11:34 PM
I used to be a big fan of U2, and went to their concerts etc. Well... a lot of their lyrics are obviously anti Christian. "Though I walk in the valley of the Shadow of death, I will fear no ill... I curse thy rod and staff they no longer comfort me..."

This is not however to say that he's not a Christian. My aunt Kitty knew Bono (his school in Dublin was round the corner from her house, and he used to come round carole singing, or collecting for the church.) One year he came around singing "Veni Creator Spiritus," and she was so sick of carole singers that she snapped at him, and told him to come back when he knew the words. He came back later, and sang the whole song to her beautifully. I think (but am not certain, she's passed since) that she knew the Edge too.

Anyhow, I suspect that he was Christian when he was younger, strayed a very long way away from Christ at various points of his fame, and is hopefully coming back to Christ now. I remember seeing him dressed up as a demon on stage singing "Sympathy for the Devil".

But I don't think he's a prophet of God. I am very much hoping (and hopefully all fans will keep this request in prayer) that he is saved. When folks get into the upper echolons of rock they are subject to the powers of this world, just like politicians are. We should pray for these people. Otherwise they are doomed.

Anyway... Bono has come out with some horrifically anti Christian lyrics. But I don't know what he's written recently, or what he's said particularly. I do seriously hope that he is saved. If anyone loves him, and is in any doubt... PLEASE pray.

daughter
Oct 16th 2007, 11:40 PM
Oh - by the way. Jeff is a Christian missionary in Guatamala. I know he's a Christian, because he's suffered a lot for the gospel. He had been poor, he has been sick... even to death's door. He has been discouraged, and he has been attacked. Through it all, he has helped put down concrete floors and waterproof roofs for people who couldn't have afforded them otherwise, helped train local health care providers, feeds the hungry, looks after widows and orphans and tells everyone the good news of Jesus. He's a pretty fantastic bloke, and his wife and daughter are pretty grand too.

Just so you know. :D I know often people say something on this kind of thread, and you think, "who are you to say that?" So as I know Jeff... I thought I'd let you know, he really is legit.

mikebr
Oct 17th 2007, 02:05 AM
Oh - by the way. Jeff is a Christian missionary in Guatamala. I know he's a Christian, because he's suffered a lot for the gospel. He had been poor, he has been sick... even to death's door. He has been discouraged, and he has been attacked. Through it all, he has helped put down concrete floors and waterproof roofs for people who couldn't have afforded them otherwise, helped train local health care providers, feeds the hungry, looks after widows and orphans and tells everyone the good news of Jesus. He's a pretty fantastic bloke, and his wife and daughter are pretty grand too.

Just so you know. :D I know often people say something on this kind of thread, and you think, "who are you to say that?" So as I know Jeff... I thought I'd let you know, he really is legit.


No doubts here.:spin:

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 04:14 PM
Honestly.... while what Bono is doing we can call it "good" I suppose... so what? What has Bono to do with God? He speaks at prayer breakfast and various venues such as with Bill Hybel but he's still just another heathen doing good. Folks like Ted Turner do good too by this standard and he's about as anti-Christ as a human can be.

Churches having guys like Bono come in and do their "leadership" conferences really does show the sorry state that much of the church is in. Could they not find someone among the body that does this sort of thing? Sure... there are thousands. But then they all aren't rock stars that can hobnob with the rich, famous, and who's who in the political arena.

You see that passage of Psalms 40 pop up... God putting a new song in his heart. I certainly do hope and pray that is the case. Certainly it would be a wonderful thing to hear Bono profess the name of Christ across the world while doing the deeds he does. They are certainly noble. But a noble deed isn't always a God deed. Going around the world pointing out there are poor people and we're not treating them right... certainly a grand message and I would even go as far to say that I don't think there a more sincere person on the planet than he is in this cause. But then hey... again, so what? Where is Christ? When I hear that profession... then a "prophet?".... perhaps.

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 05:00 PM
Listening to the second part... where he's asked about God "calling him to be a rock star." See... this is where things just get goofy for me. I've read the Bible through many a time over the last years... I missed that calling where God has them out there singing stuff like what U2 has over the years. I don't even understand why Hybels would entertain such a thought truth be told. I suppose it made him more palatable to some Christian folk... but come on!!!! I do give Bono credit for his answer though... duality is part of great art... priceless! :lol:

Whispering Grace
Oct 17th 2007, 05:04 PM
Isn't Bono the one who sings "I still haven't found what I'm looking for?"

:rolleyes:

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 05:21 PM
Isn't Bono the one who sings "I still haven't found what I'm looking for?"

:rolleyes:
Yep.... one and the same. That's in part 3. ;)

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 05:32 PM
The third section.... interesting. His logic on Jesus being either a total, Charles Manson, sort of nutbag or was in fact who He said He was... the Son of God. He knows the truth.... now what? It gets curiouser and curiouser.

Jesusinmyheart
Oct 17th 2007, 05:47 PM
Unless you know his true standing as a Christian i believe no one has the right to judge Bono. If he uses foul language, that could simply mean he hasn't learned that part yet. To use this as "total proof of where he belongs" is misleading, as neither of us has mastered 100 % errorproof discipleship yet.

When he sang "I still haven't found what i', looking for" he could have been searching back then, consider the song is over 10 years old. Not to mention to take that one verse and assume one knows what it means when he wrote that song is presumptuous.
For example, i could take that verse and sing it while i was a christian, knowing i was still looking for something more.....

Why are some celebrities treated more harshly than regular folks ? They are human too.

As for his calling, who are we to judge what is in another believer's heart, and what he feels he was called to do. That's between him and God.

Perhaps y'all should get in touch with Bono personally and ask him those questions.

Personally i have learned of some things, that cause me to write this in his defense.

Shalom my friends,
Tanja

Semi-tortured
Oct 17th 2007, 05:53 PM
If I had to guess as to what Bono is, I would guess he is a New Age Christian. Some of his lyrics and music videos are very new age in the love and accept everyone no matter what they do. Im not saying don't love, but don't accept sins.

He was also recently in the movie Across the Universe where he plays a drugged out hippie/guru where he says some pretty filthy things and seems to glorify the movement a tad.

Jesusinmyheart
Oct 17th 2007, 06:02 PM
Instead of making assumptions, it might be better to pray for a person that has more access to people than we do, and therefore should be hoped to be a good tool of God to spread His word.

Shalom,
Tanja

Semi-tortured
Oct 17th 2007, 06:12 PM
Instead of making assumptions, it might be better to pray for a person that has more access to people than we do, and therefore should be hoped to be a good tool of God to spread His word.

Shalom,
Tanja


I agree, but I also think that today too many Christians look for someone who is famous that says some nice things and latch onto those few things and ignore a lot of garbage. Not judging Bono as I don't know what's in his heart, but he serves as a lukewarm example in some areas of his life.

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 06:17 PM
4th video... interesting as well. Again... the guy has a pretty good grasp on the truth of Scripture. It will be interesting to see what he ultimately does with the truth he has.


Part 5... same as the others. He's knowledgeable... but dangerously so? I applaud him in the flesh. I fear for him in my spirit. He knows the truth and yet has he embraced it? I hear good words... but then again, so what? It is no different than a politician saying the right words to get a vote. They do it in pulpits across the country in various ways. Does Bono believe? Probably. Is that enough for him? No.

He's been to church as he readily admits but the church rejected him. Sounds all to familiar sad to say. Was Bono right on most fronts as to the church being behind the curve on most things? Yes, sad to say. Is he right that we need to be in the forefront according to Scripture in regard to the plight of the poor and the folks with AIDS, especially the children... and yet we aren't? Yes, sad to say. But does that make him anything other than an especially good hearted person? No.... sad to say.

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 06:21 PM
Unless you know his true standing as a Christian i believe no one has the right to judge Bono. If he uses foul language, that could simply mean he hasn't learned that part yet. To use this as "total proof of where he belongs" is misleading, as neither of us has mastered 100 % errorproof discipleship yet.

When he sang "I still haven't found what i', looking for" he could have been searching back then, consider the song is over 10 years old. Not to mention to take that one verse and assume one knows what it means when he wrote that song is presumptuous.
For example, i could take that verse and sing it while i was a christian, knowing i was still looking for something more.....

Why are some celebrities treated more harshly than regular folks ? They are human too.

As for his calling, who are we to judge what is in another believer's heart, and what he feels he was called to do. That's between him and God.

Perhaps y'all should get in touch with Bono personally and ask him those questions.

Personally i have learned of some things, that cause me to write this in his defense.

Shalom my friends,
TanjaTanja... when he is allowed in pulpits and pushed as Hybels is doing... then sure we have that right to judge. That being said... we must judge rightly and we must judge smart. When Bono speaks of joining together with the others, even though there are some colorful characters, we need to just get over it.... nah. The church, while certainly needing a boot in the fanny on this stuff... never should we unify with ungodliness. No matter the cause.

Whispering Grace
Oct 17th 2007, 06:27 PM
When he sang "I still haven't found what i', looking for" he could have been searching back then, consider the song is over 10 years old.

The song may have been written 10 years ago, but the question is....does he still sing it?

Jesusinmyheart
Oct 17th 2007, 06:31 PM
I agree, but I also think that today too many Christians look for someone who is famous that says some nice things and latch onto those few things and ignore a lot of garbage. Not judging Bono as I don't know what's in his heart, but he serves as a lukewarm example in some areas of his life.

For what it's worth i latch on to no one but Yeshua, or those that i respect teaching the Word of truth.
I didn't say Bono was 100 % correct he still has a long way to go as do i and many others here.

When and if he were to start preaching from the pulpit.... i would certainly not pair up with anyone be that bono or the president, or whatever other cult figure, unless they taught truth.

And we know God uses everyone for His glory, be that a beggar, an unbeliever or one of His own people. Just like He shines the sun and delivers the rain on the just and unjust.

Shalom my friends,
Tanja

Jesusinmyheart
Oct 17th 2007, 06:34 PM
The song may have been written 10 years ago, but the question is....does he still sing it?

Even if he does, meaning of words can change to the person who wrote it, it may no longer respresent the same to him as id did before. Also, i know tons of fans interpret it their own way, so why shouldn't he sing it? It's certainly not vulgar.
And to imply it being ungodly is based on assumption.

Shalom my friends,
Tanja

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 06:43 PM
Even if he does, meaning of words can change to the person who wrote it, it may no longer respresent the same to him as id did before. Also, i know tons of fans interpret it their own way, so why shouldn't he sing it? It's certainly not vulgar.
And to imply it being ungodly is based on assumption.

Shalom my friends,
Tanja
He did have the pulpit. Sure it was done by tape... but that's simply semantics.

Jesusinmyheart
Oct 17th 2007, 08:22 PM
He brought forth some good points as do many that stand behind an actual pulpit in an actual church teaching much falsehood accepting gay marriages and other nonsense doctrines.
These ought to get at least as much scrutiny....


Shalom,
Tanja

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 08:35 PM
He brought forth some good points as do many that stand behind an actual pulpit in an actual church teaching much falsehood accepting gay marriages and other nonsense doctrines.
These ought to get at least as much scrutiny....


Shalom,
Tanja
They do in plenty of threads eh? This one happened to be about Bono hence the discussion of Bono. Make sense?

Toolman
Oct 17th 2007, 09:05 PM
I used to be a big fan of U2, and went to their concerts etc. Well... a lot of their lyrics are obviously anti Christian. "Though I walk in the valley of the Shadow of death, I will fear no ill... I curse thy rod and staff they no longer comfort me..."

D,

I see the lyrics of this particular song completely different than being anti-Christ.

It is a song of confession and an cry to be changed.

That is what I clearly see in the lyrics:


Love Rescue Me

Love, rescue me
Come forth and speak to me
Raise me up and don't let me fall
No man is my enemy
My own hands imprison me
Love, rescue me

Many strangers have I met
On the road to my regret
Many lost who seek to find themselves in me
They ask me to reveal
The very thoughts they would conceal
Love, rescue me

And the sun in the sky
Makes a shadow of you and I
Stretching out as the sun sinks in the sea
I'm here without a name
In the palace of my shame
Love, rescue me

In the cold mirror of a glass
I see my reflection pass
See the dark shades of what I used to be
See the purple of her eyes
The scarlet of my lies
Love, rescue me

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow
Yet I will fear no evil
I have cursed thy rod and staff
They no longer comfort me
Love, rescue me

Sha-la-la-la, sha-la-la
Sha-la-la-la, sha-la-la --
I said love - love, rescue me

I said love - climb every mountain
I said love - all my love I give
I believe in the sun - I believe in the stars
And I want to believe in love
I said love, rescue me

I'm here without a name
In the palace of my shame
I said love, rescue me

I've conquered my past
The future is here at last
I stand at the entrance
To a new world I can see
The ruins to the right of me
Will soon have lost sight of me
Love, rescue me

Toolman
Oct 17th 2007, 09:14 PM
4th video... interesting as well. Again... the guy has a pretty good grasp on the truth of Scripture. It will be interesting to see what he ultimately does with the truth he has.


Part 5... same as the others. He's knowledgeable... but dangerously so? I applaud him in the flesh. I fear for him in my spirit. He knows the truth and yet has he embraced it? I hear good words... but then again, so what? It is no different than a politician saying the right words to get a vote. They do it in pulpits across the country in various ways. Does Bono believe? Probably. Is that enough for him? No.

He's been to church as he readily admits but the church rejected him. Sounds all to familiar sad to say. Was Bono right on most fronts as to the church being behind the curve on most things? Yes, sad to say. Is he right that we need to be in the forefront according to Scripture in regard to the plight of the poor and the folks with AIDS, especially the children... and yet we aren't? Yes, sad to say. But does that make him anything other than an especially good hearted person? No.... sad to say.

PP,

If Bono is a confessed believer in Christ (which he is) and is going about doing the work of Christ as the part of the Body that he is called to (helping hands), then what more would you have of him?

ProjectPeter
Oct 17th 2007, 09:55 PM
PP,

If Bono is a confessed believer in Christ (which he is) and is going about doing the work of Christ as the part of the Body that he is called to (helping hands), then what more would you have of him?
Like I said... he professes Christ to an audience of Christians. Politicians do that by the boat-load as do many others... so don't put much stock in that. His works... as I stated... it is great and he does put many of us in the Church to shame. But so what? Professing Christ to a church full of folk and professing Christ to the world are two different things totally. I've seen Bono on other venues and he wasn't as kind spoken to Christians at in that Hybel's interview. That Hybel has gotten him to see the importance of the local church... I think that's grand and it is apparent that Bono has listened. I hope the local church does just what Bono asked of them. We should and should have been. But does that make Bono anything special... does any of it make him Christian? No. Is he? Time will tell and I'd love to see it no doubt! Criticize him... shoot no. He's doing a good thing. Unify with him and all the other "colorful folk" as a Church? No. Would I have him in the pulpit teaching or preaching to the congregation? Again... no, not until I heard a clear profession of faith in Christ. Believing in Christ ain't having faith in Him and come on... you know that.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 02:15 AM
Like I said... he professes Christ to an audience of Christians. Politicians do that by the boat-load as do many others... so don't put much stock in that. His works... as I stated... it is great and he does put many of us in the Church to shame. But so what? Professing Christ to a church full of folk and professing Christ to the world are two different things totally. I've seen Bono on other venues and he wasn't as kind spoken to Christians at in that Hybel's interview.

Being kind spoken to Christians and being a follower of Christ are often 2 different things. Sometimes God calls a man to not be so kind spoken to Christians.

Bono's background and culture is being from a place where protestants and catholics kill each other in the name of God. I'm sure he's had enough of religiousity in his life. At least that is what I perceive when he speaks.


That Hybel has gotten him to see the importance of the local church... I think that's grand and it is apparent that Bono has listened. I hope the local church does just what Bono asked of them. We should and should have been. But does that make Bono anything special... does any of it make him Christian? No. Is he? Time will tell and I'd love to see it no doubt! Criticize him... shoot no. He's doing a good thing. Unify with him and all the other "colorful folk" as a Church? No. Would I have him in the pulpit teaching or preaching to the congregation?

I'd be willing to bet there are many professing Christians who you wouldn't have teaching and preaching in your pulpit. That was not my point.


Again... no, not until I heard a clear profession of faith in Christ. Believing in Christ ain't having faith in Him and come on... you know that.

Whatever floats your boat is cool with me. Just seems a harsh and quick judgement of someone who claims the name of Christ and is calling for the Church to repent of apathy, but then again that could just be me.

And I see alot of "faith" in what Bono is doing, which is reaching out to the poor and needy and calling the Church (American especially) to repent of Her apathy.

I'm not saying the guy is perfect. He's not.... just like the rest of the Body of Christ.

Sold Out
Oct 18th 2007, 01:17 PM
PP,

If Bono is a confessed believer in Christ (which he is) and is going about doing the work of Christ as the part of the Body that he is called to (helping hands), then what more would you have of him?

I agree with you. He could jeopardize his career by professing to be a born-again Christian, so he's taking a risk by being open about it.

He's got his faults, but what he says (and has said on several occasions) can only lead us to believe he is a Christian.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 01:42 PM
I agree with you. He could jeopardize his career by professing to be a born-again Christian, so he's taking a risk by being open about it.

I have never known Bono to deny his Christian faith. From the very beginning of his career he let it be known that he was a believer. He even almost quit the band in 1983 because he wasn't sure the sudden fame was condusive with his faith.

Now, Bono may not be a fundamentalist, or perhaps not even evangelical but that doesn't mean he's not a Christian. I've never once heard him denounce Christ (actually the opposite). He's been faithfullly married for 23 years.

He chastises the Church for Her apathy but he includes himself within that group.

I would not be quick to label him a prophet. But I also would not be quick to judge a man who claims Christ.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 02:53 PM
Being kind spoken to Christians and being a follower of Christ are often 2 different things. Sometimes God calls a man to not be so kind spoken to Christians.

Bono's background and culture is being from a place where protestants and catholics kill each other in the name of God. I'm sure he's had enough of religiousity in his life. At least that is what I perceive when he speaks.Oh shoot... I loved what he said. He is absolutely right that the church is behind the curve. I understand his background and where he's from and sure... I could totally understand why he would want nothing much to do with anything "Christian". I really can. I went that road myself because of my anger at the Church. So I am totally aware of where he's coming from there and agree with him.



I'd be willing to bet there are many professing Christians who you wouldn't have teaching and preaching in your pulpit. That was not my point.That was my point from the beginning. That's what you guys ain't understanding. ;) Is he? When I hear a clear profession then we're on to something... until then, I wouldn't have him in the pulpit.


Whatever floats your boat is cool with me. Just seems a harsh and quick judgement of someone who claims the name of Christ and is calling for the Church to repent of apathy, but then again that could just be me.Oh I heard him "sort of" claim the name of Christ. But there was no clear profession of faith. There were hints at it and like I said... I hope when it's all done he's Christian. But then until I heard him make that clear profession... I'd not hold him up as a shining Christian example. He's got the works (fruit if you will) and etc... but still lacking that clear profession of faith.


And I see alot of "faith" in what Bono is doing, which is reaching out to the poor and needy and calling the Church (American especially) to repent of Her apathy.

I'm not saying the guy is perfect. He's not.... just like the rest of the Body of Christ.I see good in what he does. Not ready to call it "faith".

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 02:55 PM
I agree with you. He could jeopardize his career by professing to be a born-again Christian, so he's taking a risk by being open about it.

He's got his faults, but what he says (and has said on several occasions) can only lead us to believe he is a Christian.Yeah... I mean imagine messing up the career if someone found out he was really a professed Christian. :rolleyes:

And that ain't a stab at Bono because like I said... he's who and what he is and we'll see as time tells.

VerticalReality
Oct 18th 2007, 03:00 PM
Just curious, PP, but do you think Bono is being a little too "gun shy" as far as his profession of faith is concerned? I think I kind of see what you're saying. I've seen folks who claim to believe and they do good works and such, but I've never heard anyone famous, including Bono, that has flatout stated without any room for wiggle that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he was sent to take on the sin of man, died on a cross, was resurrected from the dead and is now who they put their complete trust in for salvation with no other way being a possibility.

Are you basically just saying that Bono is too vague in what he says as far as his faith is concerned?

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 03:04 PM
I have never known Bono to deny his Christian faith. From the very beginning of his career he let it be known that he was a believer. He even almost quit the band in 1983 because he wasn't sure the sudden fame was condusive with his faith.

Now, Bono may not be a fundamentalist, or perhaps not even evangelical but that doesn't mean he's not a Christian. I've never once heard him denounce Christ (actually the opposite). He's been faithfullly married for 23 years.

He chastises the Church for Her apathy but he includes himself within that group.

I would not be quick to label him a prophet. But I also would not be quick to judge a man who claims Christ.Where has he outright admitted his faith? I heard a lot of right words and like I said... he has an obvious knowledge. But then I still heard no clear, no doubt, profession of faith in Christ.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 03:08 PM
Just curious, PP, but do you think Bono is being a little too "gun shy" as far as his profession of faith is concerned? I think I kind of see what you're saying. I've seen folks who claim to believe and they do good works and such, but I've never heard anyone famous, including Bono, that has flatout stated without any room for wiggle that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he was sent to take on the sin of man, died on a cross, was resurrected from the dead and is now who they put their complete trust in for salvation with no other way being a possibility.

Are you basically just saying that Bono is too vague in what he says as far as his faith is concerned?
I think Bono believes in Christ. I think that was obvious in the interview. I even think he made it clear that he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. But after that... yes. He was very vague.

Whispering Grace
Oct 18th 2007, 03:30 PM
.... but I've never heard anyone famous, including Bono, that has flatout stated without any room for wiggle that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he was sent to take on the sin of man, died on a cross, was resurrected from the dead and is now who they put their complete trust in for salvation with no other way being a possibility.

Kirk Cameron has.

VerticalReality
Oct 18th 2007, 03:35 PM
Kirk Cameron has.

True. I forgot about him. However, I'm not sure I would consider him in the mainstream "famous" category as Bono is. Kirk Cameron has for the most part given up his "star" position in Hollywood. From what I can see Kirk Cameron has now devoted his entire life to spreading the gospel.

Whispering Grace
Oct 18th 2007, 03:40 PM
From what I can see Kirk Cameron has now devoted his entire life to spreading the gospel.

Yes he has, praise God!

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 03:41 PM
Where has he outright admitted his faith? I heard a lot of right words and like I said... he has an obvious knowledge. But then I still heard no clear, no doubt, profession of faith in Christ.

When has he EVER denied his faith would be the better question. Since U2s inception Bono has claimed faith in Christ. I've never heard him say otherwise.

I've heard him rail on evangelicals, conservatives, fundamentals, etc. because of their hypocrisy and apathy but I have never once heard of him denying Christ.



The Inquisition

Bono's latest comments—even his talking to Christian media—will surely be scrutinized by many fans seemingly obsessed with the "is he or isn't he" question. But why?

"There are two camps: Those who are dying to call him their own … [and] those who are dying to bring him down and prove that he's not," Stockman said. He thinks it's a tragedy. "We want to be very black and white about who's in and who's out. We want to demonize those who are out."

Perhaps the kind of Christianity that Bono represents is threatening, Stockman posits.

"If Bono is one of us, then we have to take on the challenge of what he's saying. But if we can ostracize him and say he's not one of us, we don't have to think about the marginalization, we don't have to think about postmodernity, we don't have to think about the challenges he's laid before the church. If this guy is right, then I have to sort out my life," Stockman said.

"I think Bono is very culturally aware of who he's trying to reach. I don't think he's saying these things to make the evangelical church realize he's a Christian," he said. "He's willing to sacrifice the understanding of evangelical Christians in order to take God into a broader context. Can you tell me a role model that's bringing God into culture better?"

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/march/2.38.html

That whole article is worth a read. I'm not gonna beat it to death anymore.

I would not label Bono a prophet (nor would he) but I most certainly won't call him an unbeliever either. He claims faith in Christ and his faith results in taking action.

Is he a fundamentalist? No. Is he even an evangelical. Probably not. Is he a follower of Christ? His word and deeds say yes. God knows. But until either He or Bono tell me he's not a believer then I'll regard him as brother.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 03:45 PM
Just because Kirk Cameron and Bono have different callings on their lives and different burdens that God has given each doesn't mean that either one or the other is more important to the Body.

Cameron will never have the impact on those with AIDS in Africa that Bono is having. And Bono will never have the impact of equipping the saints for preaching the Gospel that Kirk is having.

Doesn't negate the call of God on each's life nor does it in some way invalidate either's faith.

Whispering Grace
Oct 18th 2007, 03:46 PM
Just because Kirk Cameron and Bono have different callings on their lives and different burdens that God has given each doesn't mean that either one or the other is more important to the Body.

Cameron will never have the impact on those with AIDS in Africa that Bono is having. And Bono will never have the impact of equipping the saints for preaching the Gospel that Kirk is having.

Doesn't negate the call of God on each's life nor does it in some way invalidate either's faith.

Does Bono preach the Gospel to those with AIDS in Africa? Does he actively lead others to Christ?

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 03:55 PM
I've never heard anyone famous, including Bono, that has flatout stated without any room for wiggle that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he was sent to take on the sin of man, died on a cross, was resurrected from the dead and is now who they put their complete trust in for salvation with no other way being a possibility.

MICHKA: The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.

BONO: But I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. I love the idea that God says: Look, you cretins, there are certain results to the way we are, to selfishness, and there’s a mortality as part of your very sinful nature, and, let’s face it, you’re not living a very good life, are you? There are consequences to actions. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That’s the point. It should keep us humbled . It’s not our own good works that get us through the gates of heaven.

MICHKA: That’s a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it’s close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has his rank among the world’s great thinkers. But Son of God, isn’t that farfetched?

BONO: No, it’s not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn’t allow you that. He doesn’t let you off that hook. Christ says: No. I’m not saying I’m a teacher, don’t call me teacher. I’m not saying I’m a prophet. I’m saying: “I’m the Messiah.” I’m saying: “I am God incarnate.” And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet, we can take. You’re a bit eccentric. We’ve had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don’t mention the “M” word! Because, you know, we’re gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know you’re expecting me to come back with an army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah.

BONO: If only we could be a bit more like Him, the world would be transformed. When I look at the Cross of Christ, what I see up there is all my s— and everybody else’s. So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut? And there it is, and that’s the question. And no one can talk you into it or out of it.

Bono may not express himself the way we American fundamentalists and evangelicals would want him to (i.e. just recite ABC) but I see clear professions of faith in what he says and I see clear action coming about because of his faith.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 04:03 PM
Does Bono preach the Gospel to those with AIDS in Africa? Does he actively lead others to Christ?

I don't know the answer to that question. Does Kirk actively do anything for those with AIDS in Africa? I don't know.

What if Bono does not?

What if the question was asked "Do you help those with AIDS in Africa? Do you actively do something to relieve their pain?"
Would that be the measure of your Christianity?

Mark 9:40-41 - For he who is not against us is on our side. For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

Matthew 25:40 - And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 04:26 PM
When has he EVER denied his faith would be the better question. Since U2s inception Bono has claimed faith in Christ. I've never heard him say otherwise.

I've heard him rail on evangelicals, conservatives, etc. because of their hypocasy and apathy but I have never once heard of him denying Christ.Many evangelicals and conservatives need railed on... but again... I heard him claim belief in Christ but after that he was right vague. Just believing that Jesus is the Son of God ain't enough. Naturally we are going to disagree there doctrinally but there's my stand. As I said... I hope he is. Just not convinced enough that I would line myself up in the Bono is legit camp.





That whole article is worth a read. I'm not gonna beat it to death anymore.

I would not label Bono a prophet (nor would he) but I most certainly won't call him an unbeliever either. He claims faith in Christ and his faith results in taking action.

Is he a fundamentalist? No. Is he even an evangelical. Probably not. Is he a follower of Christ? His word and deeds say yes. God knows. But until either He or Bono tell me he's not a believer then I'll regard him as brother.Again... I've no doubt he believes. Many do.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 04:26 PM
Just because Kirk Cameron and Bono have different callings on their lives and different burdens that God has given each doesn't mean that either one or the other is more important to the Body.

Cameron will never have the impact on those with AIDS in Africa that Bono is having. And Bono will never have the impact of equipping the saints for preaching the Gospel that Kirk is having.

Doesn't negate the call of God on each's life nor does it in some way invalidate either's faith.Agree totally with this in theory. :)

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 04:29 PM
MICHKA: The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.

BONO: But I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. I love the idea that God says: Look, you cretins, there are certain results to the way we are, to selfishness, and thereís a mortality as part of your very sinful nature, and, letís face it, youíre not living a very good life, are you? There are consequences to actions. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. Thatís the point. It should keep us humbled . Itís not our own good works that get us through the gates of heaven.

MICHKA: Thatís a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though itís close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has his rank among the worldís great thinkers. But Son of God, isnít that farfetched?

BONO: No, itís not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesnít allow you that. He doesnít let you off that hook. Christ says: No. Iím not saying Iím a teacher, donít call me teacher. Iím not saying Iím a prophet. Iím saying: ďIím the Messiah.Ē Iím saying: ďI am God incarnate.Ē And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet, we can take. Youíre a bit eccentric. Weíve had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But donít mention the ďMĒ word! Because, you know, weíre gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know youíre expecting me to come back with an army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah.

BONO: If only we could be a bit more like Him, the world would be transformed. When I look at the Cross of Christ, what I see up there is all my só and everybody elseís. So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut? And there it is, and thatís the question. And no one can talk you into it or out of it.

Bono may not express himself the way we American fundamentalists and evangelicals would want him to (i.e. just recite ABC) but I see clear professions of faith in what he says and I see clear action coming about because of his faith.Where was this interview? Do you have a link... would like to read the whole thing.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 04:31 PM
Many evangelicals and conservatives need railed on... but again... I heard him claim belief in Christ but after that he was right vague. Just believing that Jesus is the Son of God ain't enough. Naturally we are going to disagree there doctrinally but there's my stand. As I said... I hope he is. Just not convinced enough that I would line myself up in the Bono is legit camp.

Again... I've no doubt he believes. Many do.

PP, I honestly don't know what you are getting at then. I really don't.

If Bono believes that Christ is the Son of God, believes that it is by His grace alone, not works, that we are saved and he displays faith in action then I'm not sure what more you are looking for.

joeplaysguitar
Oct 18th 2007, 04:38 PM
I think Bono believes in Christ. I think that was obvious in the interview. I even think he made it clear that he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. But after that... yes. He was very vague.

From the very song you guys were quoting-"I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For":

You broke the bonds
And you loosened the chains
Carried the cross
Of all my shame
all my shame
You know I believe it

I think you are going out of your way to judge this man.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 04:38 PM
Where was this interview? Do you have a link... would like to read the whole thing.

Its from the book Bono: In Conversation with Michka Assayas (http://www.amazon.com/Bono-Conversation-Michka-Assayas/dp/1573223093/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5626535-4807334?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192725139&sr=8-1)

By your earlier comments I thought you had already read these parts but now I see you were quoting the Hybels videos where Bono repeats some of what he states in this book.

Here is a link with the excerpts:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/2005/bono-0805.html

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 04:41 PM
From the very song you guys were quoting-"I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For":

You broke the bonds
And you loosened the chains
Carried the cross
Of all my shame
all my shame
You know I believe it

I think you are going out of your way to judge this man.

That song, IMO, has more to do with the completion of the plan of redemption and has nothing to do with Bono saying Christ is insufficient.

I think his inspiration was Romans 8:

Romans 8
18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 04:55 PM
From the very song you guys were quoting-"I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For":

You broke the bonds
And you loosened the chains
Carried the cross
Of all my shame
all my shame
You know I believe it

I think you are going out of your way to judge this man.Words in a song don't a Christian make. ;)

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 04:56 PM
Words in a song don't a Christian make. ;)

Nor do the words of that song make one not a Christian ;)

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 04:57 PM
Its from the book Bono: In Conversation with Michka Assayas (http://www.amazon.com/Bono-Conversation-Michka-Assayas/dp/1573223093/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5626535-4807334?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192725139&sr=8-1)

By your earlier comments I thought you had already read these parts but now I see you were quoting the Hybels videos where Bono repeats some of what he states in this book.

Here is a link with the excerpts:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/2005/bono-0805.html
I know that it is hard to imagine, what with me being so cool and all, that I don't follow Bono all that much save what I read now and again as well as interviews that I see him in on the news and whatnot. Naturally I've heard much of his music played in various places and I've no problem with the lyrics of that song and several others. And yeah... going by the interview with Hybels... that's what the OP was talking about. ;) Like I said... my point has been... based on the little I've heard, I wouldn't put him in the pulpit nor would I certainly label him a prophet. As to his salvation? Much was said that makes it clear he believes but very vague when it got down to outright making it clear. Like the example used... you hear this every 3 years from Presidential candidates who are one year out of four believers... you can guarantee they are followers of Christ come election year and they'll be sure to make that known! In other words... believers out of convenience. Agenda driven believers... believe today... gone tomorrow etc.

Mind you... I don't think for a second that Bono would want to be labeled a prophet either. He got rather squirmy when Hybels made (in light) the comment about Reverend Bono. Just thought I would add that.

As to what I am getting at... Pretty simple really. Not yet convinced because of some of his vagueness. Hopefully this got both of your post in although I forgot to do the double post thingy. :lol:

John 2:23 ∂Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, beholding His signs which He was doing.
24 But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men,
25 and because He did not need anyone to bear witness concerning man for He Himself knew what was in man.

joeplaysguitar
Oct 18th 2007, 05:11 PM
Words in a song don't a Christian make. ;)

Before I say anything else, I just wanted to say that I have been lurking here for quite a while. I am a Seminary student from Liberty U working on a MAR-Biblical Studies. I certainly don't want you to think that I am being combative here, but I believe that you are bent on showing Bono to be nonChristian without any evidence or reason to judge him as such.

Many of U2's songs are overtly Christian, including Psalm 40 from one of their early albums. Bono has put his faith out there for everyone to see.

I am defending him and I'm not even a big U2 fan. Strange.

joeplaysguitar
Oct 18th 2007, 05:13 PM
Just for the record, I don't know that I would call him a prophet.

VerticalReality
Oct 18th 2007, 05:18 PM
Bono may not express himself the way we American fundamentalists and evangelicals would want him to (i.e. just recite ABC) but I see clear professions of faith in what he says and I see clear action coming about because of his faith.

That may be, and I'm not even arguing whether or not Bono is or isn't saved. I'm simply trying to understand where PP is coming from, and I can see his point. I've seen many famous people talk about God and Jesus and their belief, but aside from Kirk Cameron I've never seen anyone famous really show and express a true foundation of faith in the work of Jesus Christ. Now whether or not Bono has or hasn't isn't the point I was trying to make. I don't know the man and I've never really followed any of his music, works or interviews.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 06:09 PM
Before I say anything else, I just wanted to say that I have been lurking here for quite a while. I am a Seminary student from Liberty U working on a MAR-Biblical Studies. I certainly don't want you to think that I am being combative here, but I believe that you are bent on showing Bono to be nonChristian without any evidence or reason to judge him as such.

Many of U2's songs are overtly Christian, including Psalm 40 from one of their early albums. Bono has put his faith out there for everyone to see.

I am defending him and I'm not even a big U2 fan. Strange.Then in your lurking... you're reading incorrectly. I said I am not convinced that he's a Christian and I have also made it clear that the major thrust of what I am speaking of is his allowance and acceptance in the pulpit, as some sort of modern day prophet... AGAIN... what the thread begins by asking.

I am not at all trying to prove him not a Christian but have made it clear too that I hope he is. Words in a song mean little. Words in an interview mean little when there's an agenda. Even helping dying children in Africa mean little... as I stated while listening to the YouTube stuff... Ted Turner has done more "good deeds" than most rich folk and yet he vehemently denies God and especially Christ. None of that means nothing... what does he profess? I wanted to hear what he professed save the little "sound bites" that I heard in the Hybels interview that could be interpreted many ways.

That being said.... Now I have read many of his interviews about his faith. Now I see his profession a bit more and more. Now I could say without doubt that Bono is clearly a believer in Christ. Bono passes that test. Never have I claimed his works are a sham... they are GREAT deeds that put many of us to shame. So that's a plus as well... fruit so far looks pretty good. But fruits of the flesh... or fruits of the Spirit? My question is in regard to unifying with him as a church... as I stated... there can be no unity outside of holiness. But then we could get into years of debate defining holiness and usually what happens there is that folks camp out on the high road and nothing winds up being done. But folks need to go back and read again and see what I did. I watched the first part and responded on what I saw. It was response to what I was seeing and hearing. Since I don't personally know Bono and aren't likely going to know Bono... it is what I have to go on.

As the thread progresses and folks think I am just out to BASH BONO or some such whatever instead of picking up on the point ... a few articles start appearing and I am able to read further about this strange man called Bono. I'll post in another post what I have seen and determined... naturally for what my opinion is worth. ;)

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 06:16 PM
That may be, and I'm not even arguing whether or not Bono is or isn't saved. I'm simply trying to understand where PP is coming from, and I can see his point. I've seen many famous people talk about God and Jesus and their belief, but aside from Kirk Cameron I've never seen anyone famous really show and express a true foundation of faith in the work of Jesus Christ. Now whether or not Bono has or hasn't isn't the point I was trying to make. I don't know the man and I've never really followed any of his music, works or interviews.There are some. Stephen Baldwin is pretty much full time ministry now as well. Many musicians although not many on the scale of Bono... but back in the day they were right large. There are those that say they are now so as to resurrect their singing career and with some that is probably the case. But not all. Jeff (Fenholt.. something like that) who was with White Snake back in the day... Dione Sanders is pretty much for real although some folks would disagree because of the ministry he's tied with. I'm not as much a stickler there as many are. So yeah... there are some big named "stars" that are certainly professing Christian and profess it loud. My question with Bono was whether or not he was really professing it loud enough to even amount to professing it much at all. I'll follow up with what I have found today in looking around. I'll get to it in a bit but it was some fascinating research no doubt.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 06:18 PM
Nor do the words of that song make one not a Christian ;)Oh I would disagree with that bigtime. But then I've not seen anything in Bono's lyrics that would even close to put him into that category.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 06:23 PM
Oh I would disagree with that bigtime. But then I've not seen anything in Bono's lyrics that would even close to put him into that category.

You misread what I wrote I believe:

Nor do the words of that song make one not a Christian.

that song being the one we were discussing... "Still haven't found what I'm looking for".

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 06:28 PM
That may be, and I'm not even arguing whether or not Bono is or isn't saved. I'm simply trying to understand where PP is coming from, and I can see his point. I've seen many famous people talk about God and Jesus and their belief, but aside from Kirk Cameron I've never seen anyone famous really show and express a true foundation of faith in the work of Jesus Christ. Now whether or not Bono has or hasn't isn't the point I was trying to make. I don't know the man and I've never really followed any of his music, works or interviews.

I understand the hip hop star who thanks God on one hand and writes songs about slappin' hoes on the other hand.

But having been familiar with Bono since U2 arrived on the scene in the early 80's, having read several interviews and hearing him speak it is clear to me the man has believed on Christ and his actions follow his words.

He may not be an American fundamentalist but he definitely professes faith in Christ and backs up his faith with action.

joeplaysguitar
Oct 18th 2007, 06:34 PM
Then in your lurking... you're reading incorrectly. I said I am not convinced that he's a Christian and I have also made it clear that the major thrust of what I am speaking of is his allowance and acceptance in the pulpit, as some sort of modern day prophet... AGAIN... what the thread begins by asking.

I am not at all trying to prove him not a Christian but have made it clear too that I hope he is. Words in a song mean little. Words in an interview mean little when there's an agenda. Even helping dying children in Africa mean little... as I stated while listening to the YouTube stuff... Ted Turner has done more "good deeds" than most rich folk and yet he vehemently denies God and especially Christ. None of that means nothing... what does he profess? I wanted to hear what he professed save the little "sound bites" that I heard in the Hybels interview that could be interpreted many ways.

That being said.... Now I have read many of his interviews about his faith. Now I see his profession a bit more and more. Now I could say without doubt that Bono is clearly a believer in Christ. Bono passes that test. Never have I claimed his works are a sham... they are GREAT deeds that put many of us to shame. So that's a plus as well... fruit so far looks pretty good. But fruits of the flesh... or fruits of the Spirit? My question is in regard to unifying with him as a church... as I stated... there can be no unity outside of holiness. But then we could get into years of debate defining holiness and usually what happens there is that folks camp out on the high road and nothing winds up being done. But folks need to go back and read again and see what I did. I watched the first part and responded on what I saw. It was response to what I was seeing and hearing. Since I don't personally know Bono and aren't likely going to know Bono... it is what I have to go on.

As the thread progresses and folks think I am just out to BASH BONO or some such whatever instead of picking up on the point ... a few articles start appearing and I am able to read further about this strange man called Bono. I'll post in another post what I have seen and determined... naturally for what my opinion is worth. ;)

I was simply afraid that you were jumping the gun because of his "rock star" status. I am gald that you were able to find some good information. And again, I also don't know the man, but I know that in the "rock world" he is a rare breed that outwardly professes his faith.

VerticalReality
Oct 18th 2007, 06:35 PM
There are some. Stephen Baldwin is pretty much full time ministry now as well. Many musicians although not many on the scale of Bono... but back in the day they were right large. There are those that say they are now so as to resurrect their singing career and with some that is probably the case. But not all. Jeff (Fenholt.. something like that) who was with White Snake back in the day... Dione Sanders is pretty much for real although some folks would disagree because of the ministry he's tied with. I'm not as much a stickler there as many are. So yeah... there are some big named "stars" that are certainly professing Christian and profess it loud. My question with Bono was whether or not he was really professing it loud enough to even amount to professing it much at all. I'll follow up with what I have found today in looking around. I'll get to it in a bit but it was some fascinating research no doubt.

One I just thought of that I had forgotten about is the former lead guitarist for the metal band Korn.

He devoted his life to Christ and quit that band a few years back.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 06:36 PM
You misread what I wrote I believe:

Nor do the words of that song make one not a Christian.

that song being the one we were discussing... "Still haven't found what I'm looking for".Oh no... I don't think so either. I'd even go as far as to say his "past" songs either. Goodness... I've said many a thing in my past that would shame a pirate. Folks need to be careful doing that because we're all guilty of things said in our past that make us very "unChristian". It is one of the things I often harp on with folks who go back to the words of preachers 10... 20 years back and say "SEE! They are FALSE!!! Goodness gracious... I taught stuff 20 years ago that I'd never teach now. Does that make me a "false" teacher. Nah. Incorrect back then sure enough.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 06:40 PM
One I just thought of that I had forgotten about is the former lead guitarist for the metal band Korn.

He devoted his life to Christ and quit that band a few years back.

Brian "Head" Welch.

Save Me from Myself: How I Found God, Quit Korn, Kicked Drugs, and Lived to Tell My Story (http://www.amazon.com/Save-Me-Myself-Found-Kicked/dp/0061251844/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8698826-6362204?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192732775&sr=1-1)

Serve-N-Protect
Oct 18th 2007, 06:44 PM
I owned all of U2's albums at one time. I am a former student of secular music. If you asked anybody who knew me growing up, what my favorite band was to study, they would tell you U2. Among many other tools, the Lord used secular music to train me over the years, to recognize the lies of the world and how to hold them up against the word of God.

It takes a very trained ear to separate the lie from the truth with Bono. The proof is in the following he has.

The biggest lie is that he is touted as a sheep in wolves clothing. The best I can come up with is that he is a wolf pretending to be a sheep in wolves clothing.

The good thing is, given that about him, the poor seem to be reaping the rewards. Gods grace is amazing isn't it?

VerticalReality
Oct 18th 2007, 07:20 PM
I just thought of two more . . .

Mr. "I pity the fool" T

Tiny "Zeus" Lister

Whispering Grace
Oct 18th 2007, 07:42 PM
What if the question was asked "Do you help those with AIDS in Africa? Do you actively do something to relieve their pain?"
Would that be the measure of your Christianity?

Mark 9:40-41 - For he who is not against us is on our side. For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

Matthew 25:40 - And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

What is temporary relief of earthly suffering compared to an eternity of torment in hell?

What the "least of these" need most is Jesus Christ.

rchivers
Oct 18th 2007, 07:52 PM
What is temporary relief of earthly suffering compared to an eternity of torment in hell?

What the "least of these" need most is Jesus Christ.

People are a lot more likely to listen to you and take what you have to say to heart after you have done good by them.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 07:53 PM
What is temporary relief of earthly suffering compared to an eternity of torment in hell?

What the "least of these" need most is Jesus Christ.

And this is Bono's exact point. That fundamentalists ignore the needs of the poor despite Christ's clear teaching that those who do so are very much in danger of judgement by Him (eternity of torment in Hell as you put it).

What the "least of these" is is Jesus Christ. When you ignore them and their "temporary earthly suffering" you ignore Jesus Christ Himself.

Whispering Grace
Oct 18th 2007, 07:56 PM
And this is Bono's exact point. That fundamentalists ignore the needs of the poor despite Christ's clear teaching that those who do so are very much in danger of judgement by Him (eternity of torment in Hell as you put it).

What the "least of these" is is Jesus Christ. When you ignore them and their "temporary earthly suffering" you ignore Jesus Christ Himself.

I never said we should ignore people's suffering. But to ease people's temporary earthly suffering while ignoring the eternal torment they are headed for without Jesus Christ is equally wrong.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 08:01 PM
I never said we should ignore people's suffering. But to ease people's temporary earthly suffering while ignoring the eternal torment which lies ahead of them without Jesus Christ is equally wrong.

What does that have to do with Bono? How does he ignore sharing the Gospel?

If they are equally wrong then what is Kirk Cameron (or you) doing to ease the earthly suffering of those with AIDS?

Or can we accept that Bono and Kirk do not have the same functions in the Body of Christ?

Whispering Grace
Oct 18th 2007, 08:06 PM
What does that have to do with Bono? How does he ignore sharing the Gospel?

If they are equally wrong then what is Kirk Cameron (or you) doing to ease the earthly suffering of those with AIDS?

Or can we accept that Bono and Kirk do not have the same functions in the Body of Christ?

You asked "What if Bono does not" preach the Gospel and then quoted Scripture about doing "such to the lease of these".

I say it is the duty of EVERY Christian not just to ease suffering but to preach the Gospel.

If Bono is not preaching the Gospel to those whose suffering he is helping to ease, he is being just as apathetic as those who preach the Gospel but do not ease suffering.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 08:15 PM
You asked "What if Bono does not" preach the Gospel and then quoted Scripture about doing such to the lease of these.

I say it is the duty of EVERY Christian not just to ease suffering but to preach the Gospel.

If Bono is not preaching the Gospel to those whose suffering he is helping to ease, he is being just as apathetic as those who preach the Gospel but do not ease suffering.

I don't disagree with that and as I originally stated I don't know how he shares the Gospel with those he comes in contact with. He seems to be fairly bold when declaring his faith.

My point in that post was that Christ Himself said if they are not against us they are with us and anyone giving water in His name would not lose their reward and if you reached out to the suffering you would be counted with the sheep. His teaching not mine :)

I agree with balance. I really do. My point was that someone could easily say to you "what are you doing for those who are suffering with AIDS" and you would not measure up to what Bono is doing. Just as he might not (I don't know) measure up to your standard of how and when he should be preaching the Gospel.

Is God teaching Bono something thru the Church and teaching the Church something thru Bono? I think it is possible.

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 08:51 PM
Okay... where to begin?

1. Whispering Grace asked if Bono shares the gospel with the folks he is helping in Africa. A good question and a natural question asked, especially by someone that is eager to share the gospel.

Reality: You can't. Even many ministries cannot in Africa. Not and live. Now... some would say they should not be afraid to share it... even if it means death. Easy to say when it ain't you over there with a knife in your gut. But even still... God gives us common sense (prudence) and does so for a reason. Bono isn't there to preach the gospel. He's there to help folks live. In fairness... teaming up with Hybels and getting the local church established in those places... he is likely doing more to get the gospel out there safely than doing it otherwise. If Bono was a "preacher" then he would get very controlled places where he could share the gospel. In the camps... he would be issuing a death sentence to anyone that "accepted" Christ. Oh... because of his status... they might let him in there doing such... but they would kill those who were saved. That happens over there and hard for us to fathom. One has to be very wise (as serpents) over there. It is a different place.

2. His past: My past... your past... so what? If it is past then it is past. Forget that and press on to what is ahead of you. All of us have "past" and most of us would probably admit it ain't a good past. Let it go.

3. His music: Very interesting. Certainly not my speed. But bad? I've heard worse on country stations. and dare I say... American Idol!! ;)

4. His work: Always impressed with his work. Even glad to see him making us Evangelical/Fundy folk look like boneheads. In many ways... we are. Now... I know there are many Evangelical organizations that are helping folks in Africa. Good causes doing a good work. But then more of that reality. None of them are gathering the funds or attention greater than Bono. Even he admits that this is backwards and retarded that it be this way... but that's the way it is and he uses his celebrity status to do what he's doing. Can't argue that logic. Not with any intellectual honesty anyway.

5. The book by the French dude: excerpt of the part where he speaks of Christ can be read here. http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/2005/bono-0805.html

He said a dirty word. Get over it... poop by any other name is just poop. ;) Now... younguns reading this don't think I am saying to go ye into the world and talk like that. One... your mom will tan your hide. But seriously... that ain't the end of the world and the Lord hasn't buried his head in shame because the "S" word was spoken! It happens.

But reading what he said of Christ, albeit very plain language... he believes and understand what he believes. Greasy grace... probably. But so are many others in this forum and some in this thread. :)

6. His "American Prayer" article: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/march/2.38.html

More of the same with bits from folks that know him. Christian? While he is careful with using that term... Toolman made a comment earlier that folks have to keep in mind. Being a "Christian" in Ireland... y'all... that was a hard place. While it is not as drastic as it was when Bono was a youngun... it ain't that easy even now. But back to when he was part of the church... I can understand why he ran from such a label. Shoot... I did too so I can't condemn him now for the very thing I did. While I have gotten over it now and don't sweat the hypocrisy... hypocrites hang out in Church, hence the reason they are hypocrites... that is easy for me to say because at least folks in my church weren't killing other folk in the name of Christ. That would have been something very real for him when he was a child. Also... who knows where anyone is at in their spiritual growth? Time tells.

7. The Pulpit: Still wouldn't go that far. Doubt he would really want to even if asked but I would caution folks to still go slow with stuff like that simply because he is a man of fame. Honestly... he would probably, maybe does, think you a goober and lame for asking because in the end... he knows with many it is about the "pony show." He uses that to further the cause he is pushing.

8. His public profession: Wished he was loud about it. I think of the impact someone like Bono could have on the world if he stood up and proclaimed a follower of Christ in every situation. But then that's me wishing. Does that make him any less a man that professes Christ? He did in those interviews. Not a surprise with Hybels. One could say that "he was pushing the cause... at any price." You could be right. But then with the writer (the French guy) ... I am figuring he could have skipped right over all the Jesus stuff and no one would have really cared. No real cause there... just conversation. Certainly sounds like what a Christian would do.

9. Is he a Christian? He professes Christ and the fruit sure enough looks good on the outside. Until he shows differently... I suppose we could always practice that 1 Corinthians 13 thing and actually think good about the guy as opposed to bad. He does have a stigma as a "rock star" because we are all familiar with the whole mantra of "drugs, sex, and ROCK N ROLL! and so they are all evil spawns of satan himself! But then that tends to lean a good deal towards that whole Pharisee attitude and I doubt many of us would want to proudly wear that label. Would I hold him up as a shining example of Christianity? No... probably not. But then I have to ask myself... why not? Still haven't come up with the answer on that but then ultimately... why would I hold any man up as that example? Afterall... we have Christ and He is the ultimate example.

Shortcomings? Oh I am sure he has many. He has the basics down no doubt. Bible tells us something that I suppose has to play a big part in this. It says that "love covers a multitude of sins." Perhaps that is his, and our, saving grace come judgment day. I remember the debate when "Sister Theresa" died. I mean shoot... she was "CATHOLIC!" I've my issues with the Catholic church and my honest opinion is that a good deal of those folks are in for a rough time come one day. But then the fruit of her labor as well as the cause. The mentioning of Jesus in every speech... all she did done in the name of Christ. Not the Catholic Church or the Pope... but in the name of Christ. Yeah... there's the Mary thing and a big issue I figure... There's the icon thing and one of them there issues. The rosary, this that and whatever else. But there was the fruit. Was she truly saved? She said she was and there's the fruit... are you able to even close to compare? Not even talking in magnitude because look... few of us could. But just in attitude alone? Probably none of us, or at least only a small few, could.

In reading where he's actually professed himself a believer and follower of Jesus Christ... that has to be enough. If his fruit shows us otherwise then you know... there ya go. But so far... I haven't seen anything that would lead me to say AHA... he's a phony. That being said... I am cautious as I am with many celebrities. But let's call it now optimistically cautious. :) I'd have to say the man is a believer and follower of Christ. He don't follow it like me but then shoot... he's a different part that functions differently. If I was someone he would listen to then I'd certainly have some suggestions and advice for him... but I ain't so I can only hope he grows, learns, and continues the work he is doing. Would I support what he is doing. Guess I've done that for years now in word and small deed. In larger deed? Perhaps more so now than yesterday. Count him a brother in Christ? With what I have read and heard right now... I really see no choice.

Toolman
Oct 18th 2007, 09:06 PM
Great comments PP. Very balanced and honest. That is what I was hoping you would post so I could get your full thoughts. Makes much more sense to me now where you were coming from.

Thanks for taking the time!

joeplaysguitar
Oct 18th 2007, 10:30 PM
I agree completely PP! My concerns about your stance were unfounded.

ravi4u2
Oct 18th 2007, 11:16 PM
As I ead through this thread, I was reminded of how the disciples of Jesus found someone driving out demons in Jesus' Name and they forbade him to do so because "he does not follow with us". What was Jesus' response to His disciples? "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.Ē

ProjectPeter
Oct 18th 2007, 11:23 PM
As I ead through this thread, I was reminded of how the disciples of Jesus found someone driving out demons in Jesus' Name and they forbade him to do so because "he does not follow with us". What was Jesus' response to His disciples? "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.Ē
Sure... but then notice too that Jesus didn't say, "run out and bring him here among us." ;) Just keeping it real! :lol:

ravi4u2
Oct 18th 2007, 11:26 PM
Sure... but then notice too that Jesus didn't say, "run out and bring him here among us." ;) Just keeping it real! :lol:He didn't have to...He is the Shepherd...He knows His sheep...He did say that "there are other sheep I have which are not of this fold".

ProjectPeter
Oct 19th 2007, 12:14 AM
He didn't have to...He is the Shepherd...He knows His sheep...He did say that "there are other sheep I have which are not of this fold".
I figure if you did actually read all the post... then you catch the drift of what I said. If not... then that happens. ;)

mikebr
Oct 19th 2007, 08:16 PM
Isn't Bono the one who sings "I still haven't found what I'm looking for?"

:rolleyes:

Have you found what you are looking for? I personally have not.

mikebr
Oct 19th 2007, 08:21 PM
I think Bono believes in Christ. I think that was obvious in the interview. I even think he made it clear that he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. But after that... yes. He was very vague.


What is a profession of faith?

mikebr
Oct 19th 2007, 08:37 PM
And is a profession of faith biblical for salvation? I know the Romans verses and I think Bono has fulfilled that.

ProjectPeter
Oct 19th 2007, 09:15 PM
And is a profession of faith biblical for salvation? I know the Romans verses and I think Bono has fulfilled that.
I'm assuming that you didn't finish reading?