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DaneB
Oct 19th 2007, 04:57 AM
:pray:I am part of this spiritual leadership class where we have to step out of our comfort zone somewhat (really cool). One of our assignments for this week is we are supposed to gather 20 questions from strangers about something they either don't understand about the church, religion or Christianity. It can be as controversial as you like. Anybody have some questions they want answered? Thanks for your help.

ikester7579
Oct 19th 2007, 09:53 AM
Okay,

1) Are women supposed to preach?
2) How many heavens are there?
3) What is a firmament?
4) Did God actually create in 6 literal days and rested on the 7th day?
5) Where did the first light in Genesis come from when there was no sun or moon created yet?
6) Did Adam and Eve sin on the same day they were created?
7) Why was the choice of knowledge of good and evil given to Adam and Eve?
8) What are the Sons of God?
9) Was there a world wide flood?
10) How many were saved on Noah's Ark?

I actually know the answers to these so if you find one that you cannot answer don't worry. It's not something I really need answered. But I figure to ask these questions because they are very thought provoking and can start many good discussions in the class you are in.

Teke
Oct 19th 2007, 04:13 PM
:pray:I am part of this spiritual leadership class where we have to step out of our comfort zone somewhat (really cool). One of our assignments for this week is we are supposed to gather 20 questions from strangers about something they either don't understand about the church, religion or Christianity. It can be as controversial as you like. Anybody have some questions they want answered? Thanks for your help.

Are these "strangers" suppose to be Christians?

Semi-tortured
Oct 19th 2007, 04:47 PM
Okay,

7) Why was the choice of knowledge of good and evil given to Adam and Eve?


Of your questions ikester, this is the one I have an issue with as well. Was the tree there specifically for us to enable our free will? We HAD to have some sort of choice that was makeable to exhibit free will? And if that's the case, do we lose our free will when we get to heaven (not that I care that I won't be able to sin, cause every sin I have committed I can look back on almost all of them and see the actual negative affect that resulted). But I still wonder about the dynamic of heaven and the sinless state. I suppose our broken fleshy bodies are the reason we can't envision an existence without sin.

Here's some of my questions for you, Dane.

I am of the camp that if you divorce and remarry, you are committing adultery. (No arguments in this thread to the contrary. This thread is about questions for Dane for his homework.) My question is this (sort of a 2 parter): Is adultery committed as a one time offense at the initial marriage vows/consumation or is it a perpetual, living in sin situation. Things to consider are repentance and what it means to repent. Is repentance the recognition of sin and asking for forgivness, or does it take recognition AND the wishing you hadn't done it. The reason its relevant to my first question is if you are happily in a second marriage, can you really regret the fact that you sinned (adultery), therefore did you really ever repent?

My other question is this: Jesus repeatedly refers to his second coming as soon. Why would he have constantly used the word soon to denote something that has taken (thusfar) 2000 years? Is that not a little misleading to some people? Could that message not have given initial Christians trouble with the gospel message itself? I don't have a problem with it cause its God's will, but I can see it being a question someone might ask. I'm extatic he didn't come back soon cause otherwise I never would have existed. :pp

Sold Out
Oct 19th 2007, 04:52 PM
Okay,

1) Are women supposed to preach?
2) How many heavens are there?
3) What is a firmament?
4) Did God actually create in 6 literal days and rested on the 7th day?
5) Where did the first light in Genesis come from when there was no sun or moon created yet?
6) Did Adam and Eve sin on the same day they were created?
7) Why was the choice of knowledge of good and evil given to Adam and Eve?
8) What are the Sons of God?
9) Was there a world wide flood?
10) How many were saved on Noah's Ark?

I look forward to how they answer these. Keep us posted!!

dancedwithdolphin
Oct 19th 2007, 05:36 PM
Why dont christians have just one church denomination? Dont we all basically believe in the same thing, to where we dont need a million denominations.

I desire the gifts of God that he promised to his believers. Is there a process that we must go thru before this is possible? (I mean there is no handbook by the apostles that told us how they did it).

What was the true name of Jesus in his native tongue? And how did it finally reach the name we know today-"Jesus."

Why do the church leaders allow so much sinful actions to take place within the church itself? (I dont feel church should be a stumbling block for believers).


Oooo here is one I always wanted to know: Why is worship at church done in a specific order? In all the churches I have gone to it is always singing and then teaching. (I like, but just wondered how that came to be and why).

Spose that is all.

God Bless

cross crusader
Oct 20th 2007, 03:13 AM
[quote=Semi-tortured;1414831] Was the tree there specifically for us to enable our free will?

I know that the BIBLE says, the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So my question is this if we know that the tree of knowledge was not good for food since God told Adam that he would surely die if he ate of it. Did God plant that tree there? Or do we use scripture to interpret scripture and use the parable of the wheat and tares as an example?

diffangle
Oct 20th 2007, 03:20 AM
Why does the church teach that Yahushua nailed the Torah/Law to the cross(doing away with it) when He clearly says that not a jot or tittle will pass from the Law till heaven and earth have passed? Heaven and earth have not passed.

Mat 5
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

cross crusader
Oct 20th 2007, 03:28 AM
Why dont christians have just one church denomination? Dont we all basically believe in the same thing, to where we dont need a million denominations.

I desire the gifts of God that he promised to his believers. Is there a process that we must go thru before this is possible? (I mean there is no handbook by the apostles that told us how they did it).
God Bless

In answer to your first question it is because just like the Corinthian Church we are still carnal. 1Cor.1.
In answer to the next one, once you become a child of God by accepting Jesus, you automatically step into your heavenly inheritance. Which includes every spiritual blessing( see Ephesians 1) which includes many things, and here is what is gonna probably get me into trouble, you can operate in any spiritual gift that the Holy Spirit needs you to operate in as long as you are allowing Him to operate through you. There isn't any process that any christian has to go through. And that is where we put God in a box and limit ourselves in our Christian walk.

cross crusader
Oct 20th 2007, 11:47 PM
Why does the church teach that Yahushua nailed the Torah/Law to the cross(doing away with it) when He clearly says that not a jot or tittle will pass from the Law till heaven and earth have passed? Heaven and earth have not passed.

Mat 5
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe. But, I believe that the Law is still intact and active in the lives of sinners, for the Bible says that the wrath of God abides on those who do not believe Jesus. Because they are guilty according to the law, and they are not righteous.

DaneB
Oct 21st 2007, 12:56 AM
Thanks so much for the good start guys. I'll let you know what we are supposed to do with the questions after our next bible study. He wasn't really clear.

Equipped_4_Love
Oct 21st 2007, 02:23 AM
Can we bless the Lord when we pray?
If so, how?

Are all Christians beloved of God, like John was?

When the rapture occurs, and we all get to Heaven, will we be able to spend one-on-one time with the Lord?

diffangle
Oct 21st 2007, 02:35 AM
Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe. But, I believe that the Law is still intact and active in the lives of sinners, for the Bible says that the wrath of God abides on those who do not believe Jesus. Because they are guilty according to the law, and they are not righteous.
Did you read the words of the Messiah that I posted? He said the Law will not pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. Have heaven and earth passed away? :hmm:

cross crusader
Oct 21st 2007, 02:56 AM
Did you read the words of the Messiah that I posted? He said the Law will not pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. Have heaven and earth passed away? :hmm:

Let me clarify my answer. The Law is written on our hearts, But as for Christians being righteous, it is no longer through the law. Because I have been made righteous because of Christ. So I am no longer required by Christ to follow the levitical law to be holy. Now do i not believe that a christian cannot follow the law, but it is not required to be holy or make it to heaven. The whole law hangs on 2 commandments, love the Lord your God and love your neighbor. If you do those you end up fulfilling the whole entire law.

But for sinners, i believe that they are being judged by the law daily, and for that reason the wrath of God abides on them daily. Because they do not believe Jesus. John 3:36 That is why they get sick, they die horrific deaths, they have demons, they are subject to enemy on a 24 hour basis.

does that make more sense? in the previous statement i was trying not to say anything that might bring up a huge theological debate about the law. but that is what i believe, based upon my experience and bible study

cross crusader
Oct 21st 2007, 03:10 AM
Why does the church teach that Yahushua nailed the Torah/Law to the cross(doing away with it)


I believe what you are referring to is Colossians 2:14."having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
But the key to this verse is the following one which clarifies what happened when he did that. some take that first verse out of context.
2:15 "Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

Jesus by fulfilling the law, took away the only weapon against us that the enemy had. Now he can no longer accuse us according to the standards or requirement of the law. Because there is no longer any requirement but to accept Jesus. So he can no longer justly accuse Christians of anything. I hope i am not steppin on anyones toes here. But the enemy is no longer has any weapons but the lie. That was the only weapon he had in the garden, that is the only weapon he has now. But praise God i got a book full of truth..... i am about to start shouting. Praise God.

VerticalReality
Oct 21st 2007, 04:23 AM
Did you read the words of the Messiah that I posted? He said the Law will not pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. Have heaven and earth passed away? :hmm:

What about these . . .



Deuteronomy 27:11-26
And Moses commanded the people on the same day, saying, “These shall stand on Mount Gerizim to bless the people, when you have crossed over the Jordan: Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Joseph, and Benjamin; and these shall stand on Mount Ebal to curse: Reuben, Gad, Asher, Zebulun, Dan, and Naphtali. “And the Levites shall speak with a loud voice and say to all the men of Israel: ‘Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’
“And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who moves his neighbor’s landmark.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who makes the blind to wander off the road.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who perverts the justice due the stranger, the fatherless, and widow.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who lies with his father’s wife, because he has uncovered his father’s bed.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who lies with any kind of animal.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who lies with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who lies with his mother-in-law.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who attacks his neighbor secretly.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’
“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’”


If I treat my father and mother wrongly will I be cursed?

diffangle
Oct 21st 2007, 03:57 PM
[quote=cross crusader;1416043]Let me clarify my answer. The Law is written on our hearts,
YHWH's Law, right? If so, then YHWH's Law is still good and stands, correct?


But as for Christians being righteous, it is no longer through the law.
I wasn't aware that the Law ever brought righteousness... do you have any OT verses that show this? I thought what always brought righteousness was one's faith in Yahushua...

Jhn 8:56 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=8&v=56&version=KJV#56)Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw [it], and was glad.


Because I have been made righteous because of Christ.
Amein!


So I am no longer required by Christ to follow the levitical law to be holy.
The Law never made anyone holy... when one obeys His Law/Instructions it makes them obedient children.


Now do i not believe that a christian cannot follow the law, but it is not required to be holy or make it to heaven.
Right.



The whole law hangs on 2 commandments, love the Lord your God and love your neighbor. If you do those you end up fulfilling the whole entire law.

Those two Commandments sum up the Commandments... so by obeying His Commands you're either and or both loving Him and/or loving your neighbor... so yes, all the Commanments hang on those two.


But for sinners, i believe that they are being judged by the law daily, and for that reason the wrath of God abides on them daily. Because they do not believe Jesus. John 3:36 That is why they get sick, they die horrific deaths, they have demons, they are subject to enemy on a 24 hour basis.
What about those that teach others that they don't have to obey His Law/Commandments?

Mat 5:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Mat&chapter=5&verse=19&version=kjv#19)Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


does that make more sense? in the previous statement i was trying not to say anything that might bring up a huge theological debate about the law. but that is what i believe, based upon my experience and bible study
I understand that's your interpretation, thanx for sharing it. :saint: I still have never had anyone answer my original question in this thread... Yahushua said the Law will not pass until heaven and earth pass away... has heaven and earth passed away?



[quote=cross crusader;1416059]I believe what you are referring to is Colossians 2:14."having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
But the key to this verse is the following one which clarifies what happened when he did that. some take that first verse out of context.
2:15 "Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

Jesus by fulfilling the law, took away the only weapon against us that the enemy had. Now he can no longer accuse us according to the standards or requirement of the law. Because there is no longer any requirement but to accept Jesus. So he can no longer justly accuse Christians of anything. I hope i am not steppin on anyones toes here. But the enemy is no longer has any weapons but the lie. That was the only weapon he had in the garden, that is the only weapon he has now. But praise God i got a book full of truth..... i am about to start shouting. Praise God.

Just b/c Yahushua became the curse for us doesn't mean that the Law itself is now bad and done away with... it means that we are no longer punished with instant death/the curse. For example(this one's for you VR;))... in the OT children who were disobedient to their parents were put to death, there are two things here, there is the Law and there is the curse... yes, Yahushua became the curse for us so now when one disobeys their parents they no longer get put to death as a result of their disobedience BUT(big but) with the curse being done away with does that mean that the Law to obey your parents is now bad and done away with?

diffangle
Oct 21st 2007, 04:01 PM
What about these . . .
If I treat my father and mother wrongly will I be cursed?
Is it now okay to disobey your parents or does that Law still stand? I'm asking about the Law not the curse.

VerticalReality
Oct 21st 2007, 05:25 PM
Is it now okay to disobey your parents or does that Law still stand? I'm asking about the Law not the curse.

Of course not, unless of course they're asking you to do something that isn't godly. However, that being said, the curse is part of the law.

cross crusader
Oct 21st 2007, 06:02 PM
[quote]
YHWH's Law, right? If so, then YHWH's Law is still good and stands, correct?
I just am wondering in your opinion what is the Law of God? Just to make sure that we are not talking about 2 completely different things here. Because i believe that i am a child of God of the seed of Abraham,Romans 4 and Galatians 4 and 5, who is not under any curse or any written law or anything that God gave Moses, for those things were given to the children of Israel, who were subject to bondage all their lifetime because of their disobediance and hardness of heart.

Another question if the law doesnt bring about righteousness, and i agree that the law was to show us that we were not righteous and we needed God, then explain to me the statement of Jesus, " unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees, you will by no means enter into heaven." forgive me if it is not word for word. So it seems that the law brought about some righteousness for them. And the only way to be more righteous was to except by faith the Lord Jesus.

And to answer your question Heaven and Earth has not passed away that is why judgment or wrath however you wanna word it is abiding on sinners. But i am no longer guilty of the law, for the law is not the standard by which i or any other christian is measured. The law is mentioned as a yoke of bondage several places in scripture, and also the reply to that of how we are not to again be entangled in it. Acts 15, Galatians 5, basically the whole book of Hebrews.

diffangle
Oct 22nd 2007, 12:18 AM
I just am wondering in your opinion what is the Law of God?

The Commandments/Instructions in the Scriptures(both OT and NT) that begin with "Thus sayeth YHWH"... the same things that Yahushua Commanded.


Just to make sure that we are not talking about 2 completely different things here. Because i believe that i am a child of God of the seed of Abraham,Romans 4 and Galatians 4 and 5, who is not under any curse or any written law or anything that God gave Moses, for those things were given to the children of Israel, who were subject to bondage all their lifetime because of their disobediance and hardness of heart.
As a believer, aren't you grafted into Israel(Romans 11)? We see in YHWH's eyes, there is one Law for all...

Num 15:16 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Num&c=15&v=16&version=KJV#16)One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.



Another question if the law doesnt bring about righteousness, and i agree that the law was to show us that we were not righteous and we needed God, then explain to me the statement of Jesus, " unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees, you will by no means enter into heaven." forgive me if it is not word for word. So it seems that the law brought about some righteousness for them. And the only way to be more righteous was to except by faith the Lord Jesus.

Did the Pharisees have faith that Yahushua was Messiah? The Law without faith in Him is nothing. We are more righteous than the Pharisees b/c of the fact that we have faith in Yahushua and we show Him that we love Him by obeying His Commands instead of teaching others that we don't have to obey them and that they are bad.


And to answer your question Heaven and Earth has not passed away that is why judgment or wrath however you wanna word it is abiding on sinners.
Yahushua said the Law will not pass until heaven and earth pass away... period... not the Law will not pass for the sinners. Which btw... you never sin?:hmm:


But i am no longer guilty of the law, for the law is not the standard by which i or any other christian is measured. The law is mentioned as a yoke of bondage several places in scripture, and also the reply to that of how we are not to again be entangled in it. Acts 15, Galatians 5, basically the whole book of Hebrews.
That yoke being spoken of is the man-made laws/traditions...

Mat 15:9 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Mat&c=15&v=9&version=KJV#9)But in vain they do worship Me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

VerticalReality
Oct 22nd 2007, 12:37 AM
So back to my question, diffangle . . .

If the law is not yet fulfilled, and we are indeed still under the law, why do we not receive the curse that is part of the law? Or are you saying that we are cursed if we disobey our parents?

mikebr
Oct 22nd 2007, 12:52 AM
Since God tells us to love our enemies, does that mean that He loves his?
Is it better for God to give than to receive?
Is God able to save everyone but refuses to?
Does God want to save everyone but can't?
Why are there four words translated Hell in Scripture?
Why didn't God tell Adam and Eve about Hell when explaining the Tree?
Were the two trees literal trees?
Was there a literal fruit on the one tree that gave eternal life?
Was there a literal fruit on the one tree that gave us the knowledge of Good and Evil?
If God has a fruit that can give eternal life why doesn't He allow it to grow on earth and why did Jesus have to die?

diffangle
Oct 22nd 2007, 01:02 AM
So back to my question, diffangle . . .

If the law is not yet fulfilled, and we are indeed still under the law, why do we not receive the curse that is part of the law? Or are you saying that we are cursed if we disobey our parents?
VR I'm not sure how many times I can explain that there is the Instruction/Commandment and then there is the curse... He took away the curse of insta' death but He didn't do away with the Law itself. The Law to obey your parents still stands. Also just b/c we are suppossed to be obedient to His Commands doesn't mean that we are "under" the Law... we're under Yahushua.

Mat 19:17 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Mat&c=19&v=17&version=KJV#17)And He said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jhn 14:15 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=14&v=15&version=KJV#15)If ye love Me, keep My commandments.

Jhn 14:21 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=14&v=21&version=KJV#21)He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

1Jo 2:3 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=2&v=3&version=KJV#3)And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1Jo 2:4 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=2&v=4&version=KJV#4)He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 5:2 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=2&version=KJV#2)By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments.

Rev 14:12 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&version=KJV#12)Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of YHWH, and the faith of Yahushua.

Rev 22:14 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Rev&c=22&v=14&version=KJV#14)
Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

cross crusader
Oct 22nd 2007, 01:21 AM
The Commandments/Instructions in the Scriptures(both OT and NT) that begin with "Thus sayeth YHWH"... the same things that Yahushua Commanded.


b/c of the fact that we have faith in Yahushua and we show Him that we love Him by obeying His Commands instead of teaching others that we don't have to obey them and that they are bad.


Yahushua said the Law will not pass until heaven and earth pass away... period... not the Law will not pass for the sinners. Which btw... you never sin?:hmm:

That yoke being spoken of is the man-made laws/traditions...



I will tell you what, you give me OT and NT scripture to where it says thus sayeth the Lord, 1. To Abraham,OT, 2. To the Church in NT, to obey the the law that God gave Moses.

And as far as the yoke referring to man made laws, Acts 15:10, read the Jerusalem decree. Galatians 5:1-6.

I, spiritual man, no longer a sinner, seated in the heavenly places with Christ do not sin. I have a new identity, a new bloodline, I am a joint heir with Christ. But if i do sin i have an advocate with the father. Because the penalty for my sin has already been paid. the instadeath you talk about was taken care of on the cross.
I am not under the law of condemnation,(Mosaic Law) but the law of righteousness, (Christ's Law).

Let me ask you this.... your earthly father, is there anything you can do that would make him not your father? i mean is there a certain set of requirements that you have to follow in order for him to love you or still be your father? I mean is any certain thing required of you? Just wondering.

VerticalReality
Oct 22nd 2007, 03:15 AM
VR I'm not sure how many times I can explain that there is the Instruction/Commandment and then there is the curse... He took away the curse of insta' death but He didn't do away with the Law itself. The Law to obey your parents still stands. Also just b/c we are suppossed to be obedient to His Commands doesn't mean that we are "under" the Law... we're under Yahushua.

How can Jesus take away just some of the law but not all of it? I mean you said it yourself. If heaven and earth will pass before one jot or tittle passes from the law then that would mean that all of it (the law of Moses), including the curses, the blood of bulls and goats and the feast days are still very much intact.

Why aren't we sacrificing bulls and goats or experiencing the curse of the law?

Remember . . . you said it yourself. Till heaven and earth passes not one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law . . .

Notice I didn't finish the last line of the previous sentence. Everyone can read Matthew 5:18 and see how it ends.

VerticalReality
Oct 22nd 2007, 03:23 AM
Additionally, I would also like to point out that I do not believe that there is no law. I just don't believe there is the law of Moses. Christ's law is very much in effect.

Sold Out
Oct 22nd 2007, 02:07 PM
DaneB - What did you come with for us (from your study)?