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Cassidy
Oct 22nd 2007, 10:06 PM
Hi everyone,
I am new here you may have seen my post in the introduction earlier, but I have a question. What are your views on drinking wine? Many Christians say drinking is wrong, but then there are instances of it in the Bible. I know getting drunk is a sin, but what about just drinking it socially?

karenoka27
Oct 22nd 2007, 10:49 PM
When someone asks me this question, I show them verses and ask them to pray about it and come to their own personal conviction.


1 Corinthians 8:9-"But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."

Galatians 5:13-"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."


Ephesians 5:18-"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;"

P.S. I don't drink..I used to before I was saved but for me it is and would be a stumbling block. That is my personal conviction. It may not be that for someone else.

Friend of I AM
Oct 23rd 2007, 12:55 AM
Hi everyone,
I am new here you may have seen my post in the introduction earlier, but I have a question. What are your views on drinking wine? Many Christians say drinking is wrong, but then there are instances of it in the Bible. I know getting drunk is a sin, but what about just drinking it socially?

It's okay to drink a bit here and there. Just not in excess. Christ and the disciples drank - as did most of the men during that time. Some of this I think had to due with water purification issues during those times. Personally I don't drink myself due to the fact that I have problems with drug/alcohol addictions on both sides of my family.

AlainaJ
Oct 23rd 2007, 01:50 AM
I beleive we can abuse anything and anything can become a sin.

Alcohol, food, drugs, sports...anything.

Jesus turned the water into wine...wine was served at the last supper...so having a drink, is not the sin. It is getting drunk that is the sin.

However, many who take a drink, don't stop at one and find themselves drunk. So, if you have a tendency to want to get drunk and can't stop at just one- I would advise you like I do- just don't drink.:)

John.2 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4766347)

[3] And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
[9] When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, John.4 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4773937)


[46] So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum.Rom.14 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5061303)

[21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.Paul is not forbidding drinking..but we should not do something that may cause another brother to sin or be offend.

God Bless:)

nagwalk
Oct 23rd 2007, 07:04 AM
This would be a dangerous subject around newly saved alcoholics.

A Christian brother of mine stated when asked this question, "One drink is too many and a thousand is not enough."

Soj
Oct 23rd 2007, 09:46 AM
I'd be interested in why you want to drink wine? Honestly, is it because you enjoy the effect it has on you, does it take that edge off after a hard day at work, do you enjoy getting tiddly with your partner/friends? Or do you just like the taste? If it's just a taste preference then why not sacrifice it and get used to drinking non-fermented grape juice like Jesus drank...the fruit of the vine! (Luke 22:18)

Abstinence is the best policy for Christians. We are commanded to abstain from all appearance of evil in 1 Thessalonians 5:22.

The world loves it's alcohol, yet we are told not to love the world or the things in the world in 1 John 2:15, and if we do the love of the Father is not in us.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


I think I made my point. :rolleyes:

Quickened
Oct 23rd 2007, 11:10 AM
Well we all know that drunkenness is the sin here. Here is something new to think about.

think about how easy it can be to cross that line of sobriety. It can be as quick as a few beers or a couple of glasses of wine. I think sometimes that people have a hard time discearning when they are drunk. Alot of people think that drunk implies stumbling around and muttering incessent nonsense.

When simpily, according to Merriam Webster, it has to do with "having the faculties impaired by alcohol".

DSK
Oct 23rd 2007, 11:14 AM
I don't know of any Scripture which states that drinking is a sin, but there is plently of Scripture which states that drunkeness is a sin. And if there remains the possiblity that drinking will lead to your becoming drunk, then it is best to avoid taking the first sip of anything alcoholic to begin with.
We also need to remember than in Biblical times, clean drinkable water wasn't readily available, which means that the juice of grapes was often used to quench ones thirst, and that the grape juice often became fermented.

jiggyfly
Oct 23rd 2007, 12:22 PM
Yes drinking can lead to drunkeness and eating can lead to gluttony and lust to lasciviousness.

Galatians 5:16-26
16 So I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17 The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict. 18 But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law.
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, 20 idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
22 But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law.
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25 If we are living now by the Holy Spirit, let us follow the Holy Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. 26 Let us not become conceited, or irritate one another, or be jealous of one another.

cheech
Oct 23rd 2007, 12:27 PM
Good info thus far and I agree with DSK.

I personally don't have a problem with having one or two drinks on occasion, but many can't handle that and they need more and have to have it all the time which soon becomes a problem. Everything needs to be done in moderation, even the foods we eat.

There is a verse I like to keep in mind that although talks about sexual immorality, it can apply to anything:

1 Cor 6:12
"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.

Everything is permissible for us. We can have anything, but it may not always be beneficial for us and soon may become a problem and we become mastered by it...we become slaves to it.

So although drinking may not be a sin, the amount you have can be. If you are the type that is able to have one drink here and there (here and there being on special occasions or whatever provided you don't find every day a special occasion ;)) then it's not a sin. If you are the type to crave more then it is a sin because you "need" it. I, myself, have a small glass of wine every so often...that probably equals up to 3-4 times a year at best.

It's probably best just to stay away from it for most people though.

2 Peter 2:20
Oct 23rd 2007, 12:51 PM
I don't know of any Scripture which states that drinking is a sin, but there is plently of Scripture which states that drunkeness is a sin. And if there remains the possiblity that drinking will lead to your becoming drunk, then it is best to avoid taking the first sip of anything alcoholic to begin with.
We also need to remember than in Biblical times, clean drinkable water wasn't readily available, which means that the juice of grapes was often used to quench ones thirst, and that the grape juice often became fermented.

Using this logic to not even sip an alcoholic drink because it might lead to drunkeness would keep you from eating a bite of anything because it might lead to gluttony. That can't be the case.

Is there a difference between setting down and eating 2 large pizzas or drinking a 12 pack of beer??? Both are sin but we (Christians) think that the beer carries more of a sin weight and that is wrong.

Sold Out
Oct 23rd 2007, 02:01 PM
When someone asks me this question, I show them verses and ask them to pray about it and come to their own personal conviction.


1 Corinthians 8:9-"But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."

Galatians 5:13-"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."


Ephesians 5:18-"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;"

P.S. I don't drink..I used to before I was saved but for me it is and would be a stumbling block. That is my personal conviction. It may not be that for someone else.

Couldn't have said it any better than this.

At our bible study last week, we touched on this. My pastor said that while it's not a 'sin' to drink, per se', the general consensus among unbelievers is that Christians don't drink. So let's say you were in a restaurant and order a beer, and then the Lord leads you to witness to someone in the next booth..what will they think if they see a beer bottle on your table? Just something to think about.

2 Peter 2:20
Oct 23rd 2007, 02:07 PM
I'd be interested in why you want to drink wine? Honestly, is it because you enjoy the effect it has on you, does it take that edge off after a hard day at work, do you enjoy getting tiddly with your partner/friends? Or do you just like the taste? If it's just a taste preference then why not sacrifice it and get used to drinking non-fermented grape juice like Jesus drank...the fruit of the vine! (Luke 22:18)

Abstinence is the best policy for Christians. We are commanded to abstain from all appearance of evil in 1 Thessalonians 5:22.

The world loves it's alcohol, yet we are told not to love the world or the things in the world in 1 John 2:15, and if we do the love of the Father is not in us.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


I think I made my point. :rolleyes:

Jesus said in Mark 7:

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") 20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

Kingsdaughter
Oct 23rd 2007, 03:19 PM
That is also my conviction karenoka27.
Kingsdaughter

hdt
Oct 23rd 2007, 06:37 PM
Couldn't have said it any better than this.

At our bible study last week, we touched on this. My pastor said that while it's not a 'sin' to drink, per se', the general consensus among unbelievers is that Christians don't drink. So let's say you were in a restaurant and order a beer, and then the Lord leads you to witness to someone in the next booth..what will they think if they see a beer bottle on your table? Just something to think about.

hmmmmm. I could say it may not a negative thing. It could say them Christians like to have a beer on occasion just like me. I know alot of people that wouldn't take a negative spin on it.

You can't please everyone! LOL!

I remember an occasion during a festival I worked for 7 years - Oktoberfest - while I working in the volunteer booth. Both my co-worker and I are Christian, and active within our community and church. The festival's purpose was to raise funds for scholarships, and to show German Hertitage (great entertainment!). I will on occasion sit down with a small stein of beer and have a brat and potato salad for dinner! You can only get this special beer once a year, and its very tasty! :D

We had someone come up and ask me (I think it was one of our volunteers), "I thought 'church goers' didn't drink!" My partner in the booth - she never drinks either looks at me. I said, "Well! The bible doesn't say we can't drink.....lol Its says its a sin to get DRUNK! There are some like my partner in crime here that doesn't tho! You are correct!" She grinned at me when I said that. He responses, "Oh! I can live with that!" lol then goes on and on about how that is a good answer, and how I was refreshing in my approach. How he was happy to see that not all church goers (his term not mine!) aren't so unapproachable! How I'm a far cry from the 'stick in the mud' he has dealt with in the past. LOL it was interesting to say the least! He was there talking to us for a while! I think people get these stereotypes in their heads to be honest. THere are alot of people from my church that aren't 'stick in the muds'...lol then again I can also name a few that tend to be at times! :lol: HEY we are all custom!

To me we all reach different people, because we are different people! Its like that gentleman from the festival! Who is he more likely to listen to when you speak about Jesus....that stereotype he has in his mind of 'stick in the mudd'...or someone similiar to the approach I had with him! :hmm: Everyone is different! We all have our place, and all have our approaches! It may not work on all, but all we do have our audiences also!

I havent thought about him in a long time! He was a nice man. I remember my partner saying to me as he walked away, "Well we straighten him out about us 'church goers' didn't we" and then she laughed! :lol:

Maybe its one of those situations where you have to be there!

Steve M
Oct 23rd 2007, 07:13 PM
Using this logic to not even sip an alcoholic drink because it might lead to drunkeness would keep you from eating a bite of anything because it might lead to gluttony. That can't be the case.

Is there a difference between setting down and eating 2 large pizzas or drinking a 12 pack of beer??? Both are sin but we (Christians) think that the beer carries more of a sin weight and that is wrong.
After eating the pizza few people beat their kids or their wife, or crash their car and manage to kill a dozen people.

Does alcohol have that effect on everybody? No. But as a volunteer firefighter I tend to see the absolute worst that drunk people have to offer... I see them when they've hurt people, when the alcohol has loosened them up enough to get people killed... and it's made me a little cynical about alcohol in general.

2 Peter 2:20
Oct 24th 2007, 01:13 AM
After eating the pizza few people beat their kids or their wife, or crash their car and manage to kill a dozen people.

Does alcohol have that effect on everybody? No. But as a volunteer firefighter I tend to see the absolute worst that drunk people have to offer... I see them when they've hurt people, when the alcohol has loosened them up enough to get people killed... and it's made me a little cynical about alcohol in general.

I am just saying too much of anything is a bad thing (with the exception of Christ, you can't have too much of Him) but we label the person who has a drink with dinner as a "worse" sinner. That's wrong! I myself don't drink anymore but if I wanted to have a beer while watching TV it is not a sin.

I wouldn't consider those people you are describing as "Christians". Whether they say they were saved at one time or not. If they are doing such things then they are on the path that leads through the wide gate to destruction.

markedward
Oct 24th 2007, 03:34 AM
Hi everyone,
I am new here you may have seen my post in the introduction earlier, but I have a question. What are your views on drinking wine? Many Christians say drinking is wrong, but then there are instances of it in the Bible. I know getting drunk is a sin, but what about just drinking it socially?No, simply drinking alcohol is not a sin. Jesus not only drank wine, but he made wine. Why would Jesus make wine at all if it was wrong to drink period?

As you said, drunkenness is sinful. Drinking alcohol is not.

Sold Out
Oct 24th 2007, 12:48 PM
No, simply drinking alcohol is not a sin. Jesus not only drank wine, but he made wine. Why would Jesus make wine at all if it was wrong to drink period?

As you said, drunkenness is sinful. Drinking alcohol is not.

correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't think it says anywhere in scripture that he drank wine?

Steve M
Oct 24th 2007, 01:19 PM
correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't think it says anywhere in scripture that he drank wine?
Okay... you're wrong. :)


Lu 7:33
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.'
Lu 7:34
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners.'"

Sold Out
Oct 24th 2007, 01:47 PM
Okay... you're wrong. :)


Lu 7:33
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.'
Lu 7:34
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners.'"

It doesn't say he drank WINE though....

Steve M
Oct 24th 2007, 01:59 PM
It doesn't say he drank WINE though....
Well, one doesn't get the title 'drunkard' for drinking water...

Amazedgrace21
Oct 24th 2007, 03:28 PM
It doesn't say he drank WINE though....

I hardly believe Christ would have performed his first public miracle at the wedding by replacing the wine or use the metaphor of wine with his blood, through out scripture .. "if" wine was the an issues of being a sin..(smile)..

In Luke 22:17 there is a reference Christ makes to the content's of the cup he raises when he says..take this and divide it among you , for I told you, I will not "drink again, of this fruit of the vine"..

Consumption of "alcohol" was not a sin..wine would not have been associated to anything to do with that is of Christ, by Christ if it had any association with evil..any more than "marraige" is the problem that requires a cure by geting rid of marraige..thats silly

And again, no canof beer or glassof wine "jumps" off the table and forces itself into someones hand and then forces that hand to pour the contents down the throat, than when it comes to 2 lbs of M & M's

( which I confess I have more than once tried to tell myself..along with God just wnt's me to be "happy" or He would never have invented M & M's..lol!!)

Drunkenness is the sin...in respect to the consequence of abusing anything..obviously alcoholsim is a 'silent' predisposed physical issue..that one can pretty much identify right off the bat if they rationalize after a can or two, glass or two of wine, all of the sudden thats not enough ,nor can be walked away from without profound distress that they need to "run away" from anything to do with alcohol..

The ones that do reckless things , cruel things when they are under the influence of alcohol or drugs..do not become new, different people ..thtas an error... these tendencies just become exposed when the inhibitions are reduced and impaired, the clue is the drinking is on board to begin with.. and refusing to take responsibility to associate the responsibility of these choices with the responsibility for them..in a constructive and healthy manner..no different than calling "lust" love.. when looking at an affair.

This would be the injunction IMHO where drinking becomes an
"idol"..when what God wants for ones best and highest well being is rejected and abandoned for "lusts" towards anything less than that..its a status of the spirit of the "heart and mind" that God views as the priority opposed to the actual consequences of that when its manifested in a asinful behavior with

EVERYTHING and ANYTHING..wine, alcohol is just one of those things..

Sold Out
Oct 24th 2007, 03:30 PM
The reason I say that is because I've heard before that wine infers contamination (fermentation - bacteria) and that our Lord's blood (which the contents of the 'cup' represents) had no sin (bacteria-contamination).

In the same way the bread of the Lord's Supper has no yeast....since yeast represents sin.

Thoughts?

Amazedgrace21
Oct 24th 2007, 03:42 PM
The reason I say that is because I've heard before that wine infers contamination (fermentation - bacteria) and that our Lord's blood (which the contents of the 'cup' represents) had no sin (bacteria-contamination).

In the same way the bread of the Lord's Supper has no yeast....since yeast represents sin.

Thoughts?

Not all "leaven" is bad..just bad "leaven"..and sure if the yeast is contaminates, so is the bread..same with any sin and the instruction to test the spirit....it's metaphorical , not literal.. for example..God is a spirit, not all spirits are bad simply becasue Satan is a bad spirit..

My understanding of the yeast being abandoned in the preparation of food "back when" was in respect to the time factor of preparing bread and allowing bread to rise for obvious reasons..just as the use of bitter spices was symbolic.

the command was to obey, pick up and leave ASAP..hense no time "for letting" the dough rise..and this became adopted as a cultural tradition and cermony of the law by the Israelites to commend this part of their History

Sold Out
Oct 24th 2007, 06:02 PM
What about these verses?

"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth" I Corinthians 5:7,8

My understanding is that leaven (yeast) is a picture of sin, which is why we use unleavened bread in the Lord's Supper. In the same way, wouldn't fermentation (bacteria) represent corruption/sin when grape juice turns to wine?

DanDMan64
Oct 24th 2007, 06:20 PM
It doesn't say he drank WINE though....I have heard this argument before, that their wine was really just grape juice and not fermented wine like we know today, which by the way gets alcohol added to it to spike it-up a bit. But the fact is we know it was fermented, and Jesus did drink it. The wine at the wedding in Cana was fermented wine, otherwise why would it need to be approved by the master of ceremonies, and were it plain grape juice he would have declared something to the bridegroom about first giving the guests wine, and then cheating them with plain old grape juice, but instead he praises him for keeping "The good wine" until the end.

It's also mentioned in Mark 2:15-17. 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

What does it mean then, was Christ a sinner because He drank wine? Well obviously not, or else His sacrifice on the cross would have been in vain and ineffective to pay for our salvation. But what it does show is that Christ did drink wine on occasion, usually special occasions, but he knew when to stop, and He did it so he could reach people at their level, so he could be accessible to them and be able to reach their souls, which is way more important to God then the external manifestations of sin which usually offend religious people.

The question then becomes, what are we to do? what is acceptable for "Christians" in this day an age to drink,and when? Well, if we take Christ's life as an example of how to lead our lives, then we'd have to say that a little wine, or other alcoholics beverages are OK as long as you control them and don't allow them to control you, and you do it mostly in private because there is an expectation in the part of most unbelievers and new believers, that drinking is a sin, and is bad for our witness as children of the light when they perceive a bit of darkness in us. You could also drink in the company of other like minded believers who understand and agree with the above mentioned point of view, but again let moderation be the key, and always have a designated driver just in case you over indulge.

Me personally, I do drink mostly wine on Thanksgiving, champagne on New Years and my Anniversary, and an occasional wine cooler when playing sports. Never hard liquor or beer which I've never been able to get passed the "gag effect" off, which is a mechanism our bodies naturally have as a way to keep us from "poisoning" our selves, and God did put it there for a reason, and which also works the same for filling your lungs with smoke, but I'll leave that discussion for another thread. :rolleyes:, :2cents:

tango
Oct 24th 2007, 06:46 PM
This would be a dangerous subject around newly saved alcoholics.

A Christian brother of mine stated when asked this question, "One drink is too many and a thousand is not enough."

Definitely. I still enjoy a drink but since coming back to God would show significantly more restraint than previously. If I were talking to an alcoholic I'd keep away from alcohol and from places where alcohol is served (pubs are much more part of mainstream culture in the UK than bars are in the US). In fairness though I'd regard that as common courtesy and wouldn't have done it before I came to God.


Couldn't have said it any better than this.

At our bible study last week, we touched on this. My pastor said that while it's not a 'sin' to drink, per se', the general consensus among unbelievers is that Christians don't drink. So let's say you were in a restaurant and order a beer, and then the Lord leads you to witness to someone in the next booth..what will they think if they see a beer bottle on your table? Just something to think about.

This must be a cultural thing, in the UK I'm not aware of any such perception. The communion wine is alcoholic in many churches although some (and not only Methodists) serve grape juice.

I'd be inclined to think that seeing a Christian enjoying a beer or a glass of wine would help dispel the other notion that some people do have that Christians are a bunch of killjoys who don't do anything except read the Bible and preach, assuming of course you don't live in a culture where drinking alcohol is regarded as inherently evil.

DaniB
Oct 25th 2007, 12:05 AM
I beleive we can abuse anything and anything can become a sin.

Alcohol, food, drugs, sports...anything.


Wow...I just had to repent, you could probably say I abused hot sauce. :o Yeah, I would have a lot and in excess. Everyday for lunch I'd drown my chicken sandwich in hot sauce. Why? Because it tasted good. Consequences? Chest pain! So bad I thought I was having a heart attack. Nope, just esophagitis. Not fun. On a pill for 2 weeks, and already after 24 hrs I'm feeling better.

So yeah, anything and everything can be abused.

Back to the subject on hand. I personally don't drink. I don't think it's wrong per se. I know red wine has health benefits.

Best advice? Pray and ask God, He'll let you know, for you. I'll pray that he reveal his perfect will for you on this issue.

Sold Out
Oct 25th 2007, 01:01 PM
I have heard this argument before, that their wine was really just grape juice and not fermented wine like we know today, which by the way gets alcohol added to it to spike it-up a bit. . :rolleyes:, :2cents:

So they add more alcohol to wine? I didn't know that. So if that is the case, then the wine in Jesus' day was probably less intoxicating than what we have now.

tango
Oct 25th 2007, 09:27 PM
Couldn't have said it any better than this.

At our bible study last week, we touched on this. My pastor said that while it's not a 'sin' to drink, per se', the general consensus among unbelievers is that Christians don't drink. So let's say you were in a restaurant and order a beer, and then the Lord leads you to witness to someone in the next booth..what will they think if they see a beer bottle on your table? Just something to think about.

Just following up on this logic again, "the general consensus" seems an odd way to decide how to live. Using that logic Jesus wasn't much of a witness because, at that time, the general consensus was that holy people didn't mix with tax collectors and sinners.

2 Peter 2:20
Oct 25th 2007, 09:35 PM
Just following up on this logic again, "the general consensus" seems an odd way to decide how to live. Using that logic Jesus wasn't much of a witness because, at that time, the general consensus was that holy people didn't mix with tax collectors and sinners.

Actually it's all about denominations. Some say no drinking and some say it's OK to have one or two and then some don't think it matters at all.

tango
Oct 25th 2007, 09:50 PM
Sure, I'm just not clear how the "general consensus" on how Christians behave is a guide to how we should behave. If Jesus had followed the general consensus he would have spent time with the scribes and Pharisees rather than tax collectors and other sinners.

leighlove13
Oct 25th 2007, 10:01 PM
I think it is wrong to drink because of this.

Christians are supposed to be examples. If a non christian saw you drink, what kind of influence would you have on them? If they saw you drink and because of that...they think it's ok to drink, they might become an alchoholic someday, just because they saw a Christian drink.

Plus, why drink? In my mind it is pointless. There have been lots of murders and other crimes done just because someone was drinking. You can have JUST AS MUCH fun watching a football game with friends, going out to eat, etc. without the alcohol!

Sold Out
Oct 25th 2007, 10:37 PM
Sure, I'm just not clear how the "general consensus" on how Christians behave is a guide to how we should behave. If Jesus had followed the general consensus he would have spent time with the scribes and Pharisees rather than tax collectors and other sinners.

Tango...I'm sure it is more of an American thing. Since Baptist is one of the biggest denominations, and they don't endorse alcohol consumption, it has sort of created the perception that Christians don't drink.

I'm not arguing your points at all....I'm just saying it's something to consider when ordering up an alcoholic drink.

DanDMan64
Oct 25th 2007, 11:49 PM
So they add more alcohol to wine? I didn't know that. So if that is the case, then the wine in Jesus' day was probably less intoxicating than what we have now.Probably, but still if you drank too much of it it would have the same effects. They still make wines that don't get any alcohol added to it, you just have to read the labels and find-out. I've thought about buying it myself, but not being a big drinker, "Connoisseur" I haven't been looking for it. When I do have wine I usually mix it in with soda or juice, mostly because of the alcohol content I can't stand.

bjones
Dec 3rd 2007, 05:21 AM
Just a quick observation on leaven.

The kingdom of God is likened to leaven, so the symbol of leaven as sin may not be completely accurate.

If leaven represents "teaching" then it is the teaching of the Pharisees that is warned against. And the kingdom is like a teaching that spreads.

In this case unleavened bread represents the fullness of communion with Christ when no one teaches another because all know Him.

Just a thought ;-)

hootinannie
Dec 3rd 2007, 07:14 AM
I've read this whole thread, and I didn't see anyone mention one very important factor. Grapes don't grow year round, so when they threshed the grapes and stored the juice, THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY REFRIGERATION in those days, so of course the wine fermented. Unless the Bible specifically SAYS the wine was not fermented, it most likely was, and it is very unlikely that Jesus drank water only, especially since He spoke of drinking the fruit of the vine, and attended a wedding where He turned the water into wine, and, if my information of the culture is correct, it would have been rude of Jesus to refuse the wine at the wedding. However, as several others have pointed out, it is drunkenness that the Bible speaks against. Paul even instructed Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake.

minnesotaice
Dec 3rd 2007, 11:47 AM
I have much experience and observation about this subject. First of all, I drank lots in my young 20s (I wasn't following the Lord). Luckily, I started going to church and decided to stop on my own (with the Holy Spirits help of course).

I didnt' drink even a sip for 7 years as a believer. I wasn't missing anything. Then I began fellowshipping with people at their house who were Christians and drank alcohol at their "Gatherings". I didn't think much of it until I noticed that it was happening everytime they had a gathering. I will admit I drank sometimes and it wasn't long before I noticed some of my "old" feelings coming back. Then I asked myself why I was doing it and I was doing it to fit into this group and to relax.

I am ashamed to admit now that I got Buzzed sometimes and I realize that I do not want to go down that road. I can guarantee that it doesn't take more than 1-2 drinks for anyone to get buzzed unless they are large or they have built up a tolerance. I do not fellowship with these people any longer and I am glad I asked myself why I started drinking again.

A lof of Christians say they like the taste of beer and wine but in my experience, they don't stop and then they are buzzed pretty quick. I don't see any good reason to do it anymore.

Confused64
Dec 3rd 2007, 02:23 PM
It's all about self-control. God gives us Free Will, but you have to understand what your limits are. I drank a lot when I was in my 20's, now I hardly ever do. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a glass of a good Shiraz or a good Sam Adams seasonal specialty once in a while, as I drink for the taste.

Also, all that we have is from the Lord, including knowledge. Why would He give us the knowledge and means to create these beverages if He didn't intend for us to enjoy them.

Now, I realize that there are a lot of Christians who are recovering alcholoics- and that it was faith that led them there- and I would never condone such activities. However, I also believe strongly in willpower.

Semi-tortured
Dec 3rd 2007, 03:52 PM
I am ashamed to admit now that I got Buzzed sometimes and I realize that I do not want to go down that road. I can guarantee that it doesn't take more than 1-2 drinks for anyone to get buzzed unless they are large or they have built up a tolerance. I do not fellowship with these people any longer and I am glad I asked myself why I started drinking again.



I too drank when I was in my early 20s quite a bit. I can tell you from experience that the feeling I get from having 2-3 beers and getting buzzed was not anywhere close to being even slightly drunk. 2 beers for me relaxes my muscles and makes me a little bit more outgoing. I do not have any loss of control whatsoever.

I don't get drunk anymore, and 2 beers is all I will drink in one sitting unless it's several hours (like a 4 hour wedding reception). But from reading scripture, I honestly can't make a bullet proof case that getting a slight (notice I said slight) buzz is a sin. Now, I am not going to push the envelope and go for it, but the Bible warns against drunkeness and being a drunkard. If people need to stop at any point a substance starts to have a physical effect on them, then say goodbye to your medicine cabinet, coffee, etc. And before anyone comes in with the "I don't see coffee drinkers getting in car wrecks." defense, please stop. I realize that. That doesn't change the fact that different things can affect your body. If I'm tired and I need to stay awaye while working a 12 hour day, I will grab a triple shot latte and it will cause my body to jitter a bit and I'll get a slight high. But I need to stay awake to do my job. Is that a sin?

This subject is a hot button with a lot of Christians and I think the Holy Spirit does need to lead you. The Holy Spirit has led me to the fact that I can have a couple beers at a resturaunt on a Friday or Saturday night or a couple beers while watching football on Sunday's.

Isaac-Saxon
Dec 3rd 2007, 03:59 PM
Hi everyone,
I am new here you may have seen my post in the introduction earlier, but I have a question. What are your views on drinking wine? Many Christians say drinking is wrong, but then there are instances of it in the Bible. I know getting drunk is a sin, but what about just drinking it socially?
Isaac will have a glass of red wine ! Good for the belly and head. I know that the Israelites always had their oil, wheat and wine. What was Christ first miracle ? Water changed to wine at the wedding feast !! Thank you Father for such a fine wine. Like anything in life excess is bad and I do not go there. I know one glass with dinner and a good night sleep. Keep your lamp full of oil and your new skin full of new wine.

minnesotaice
Dec 3rd 2007, 06:24 PM
I too drank when I was in my early 20s quite a bit. I can tell you from experience that the feeling I get from having 2-3 beers and getting buzzed was not anywhere close to being even slightly drunk. 2 beers for me relaxes my muscles and makes me a little bit more outgoing. I do not have any loss of control whatsoever.

I don't get drunk anymore, and 2 beers is all I will drink in one sitting unless it's several hours (like a 4 hour wedding reception). But from reading scripture, I honestly can't make a bullet proof case that getting a slight (notice I said slight) buzz is a sin. Now, I am not going to push the envelope and go for it, but the Bible warns against drunkeness and being a drunkard. If people need to stop at any point a substance starts to have a physical effect on them, then say goodbye to your medicine cabinet, coffee, etc. And before anyone comes in with the "I don't see coffee drinkers getting in car wrecks." defense, please stop. I realize that. That doesn't change the fact that different things can affect your body. If I'm tired and I need to stay awaye while working a 12 hour day, I will grab a triple shot latte and it will cause my body to jitter a bit and I'll get a slight high. But I need to stay awake to do my job. Is that a sin?

This subject is a hot button with a lot of Christians and I think the Holy Spirit does need to lead you. The Holy Spirit has led me to the fact that I can have a couple beers at a resturaunt on a Friday or Saturday night or a couple beers while watching football on Sunday's.


You bring up a good point? If a believer takes a drink or 2 or 3, where is it decided how much is "drunk". There are so many different degrees of what alcohol can do for you. Personally, for me I asked myself why I drank and after deep thought, realized that it relaxed me and to fit in. To me, those are not good reasons so I don't do it anymore.

I thought also about caffeine, sweets, eating more than you need (obesity) etc.... interesting but again, how much is too much? What is moderation, if there is a definition for it?

I personally think that in my view, very few people in this world can really stop with alcohol. Maybe I know too many people who took it too far when they were young but I think it is more common to lose control than it is to be responsible. I think everyone should really pray and think about whether or not they can handle all of the effects of alcohol.

Isaac-Saxon
Dec 3rd 2007, 06:30 PM
You bring up a good point? If a believer takes a drink or 2 or 3, where is it decided how much is "drunk". There are so many different degrees of what alcohol can do for you. Personally, for me I asked myself why I drank and after deep thought, realized that it relaxed me and to fit in. To me, those are not good reasons so I don't do it anymore.

I thought also about caffeine, sweets, eating more than you need (obesity) etc.... interesting but again, how much is too much? What is moderation, if there is a definition for it?

I personally think that in my view, very few people in this world can really stop with alcohol. Maybe I know too many people who took it too far when they were young but I think it is more common to lose control than it is to be responsible. I think everyone should really pray and think about whether or not they can handle all of the effects of alcohol.

Most people can handle it just fine. It is the few that give the many a bad name. If it is not for you no problem here. The making of wine as many already know is the process of purification. No more dregs. Ask the WWII vets about wine. It was the only drinkable thing in France.

DanDMan64
Dec 3rd 2007, 06:53 PM
Hi everyone,
I am new here you may have seen my post in the introduction earlier, but I have a question. What are your views on drinking wine? Many Christians say drinking is wrong, but then there are instances of it in the Bible. I know getting drunk is a sin, but what about just drinking it socially?Hello again, since people seem to be coming back to this thread even though it was "inactive" for a while, I just thought I chime in again with some new insight.

First-off the OP's question is in regards to wine, and then she (assuming Cassidy is a girls name) asks, is it OK to drink socially since there are instances of it in the Bible?

I think in general most of the views on this thread thus far confirmed the general consensus, that Jesus did approve of wine and did drink it socially, and when the Bible refers to drinking in both the OT and the NT it says that it's OK to drink it during a meal and as part of a social gathering, but to indulge in it and drink too much of it to the point where it overwhelms your senses and makes you loose control, "you get drunk" it's a sin.

Now, in my opinion, the arguments for other liquors including wines which are not naturally fermented but also get "alcohol" added to them, are off-topic, since these don't fall under the same category of simple fermented wine, but rather on that of "strong drink" which the Bible clearly condemns, particularly in the case of the "Levites" which were the priestly tribe that ministered unto the Lord for the rest of the people.

Most everyone would agree that alcoholic beverages for the most part are "an acquired taste", which means your body's first reaction when you try to drink it is to not let it get passed your throat, this is called "the gag effect" and as I mentioned before, this is a natural built in defense God put in our bodies to keep us from "poisoning" ourselves. Yet because we see that others can do it and they will be more accepting of us if we are able to do it as well, we force our bodies to let it in and eventually we force ourselves to tolerate the taste and in time we convince ourselves that we actually "like it".

There is a good reason God does not approve of us drinking "poisons" some kill us instantly or very rapidly, and some kill us slowly and subtlebly, It is a fact that and ounce of alcohol kills up to 10,000 dendrites in our brain that can never be restored, once they're dead they're are dead for good and only a miracle from God can restore them. Now I don't know about you all, but I for one need every single one of my dendrites to stay alive for as long as possible.

Most of us understand that God is good, and when He tells us to stay away from doing things that harm us, is not because He's a "kill joy" that loves to stop us from enjoying, "the good things in life", but rather because He knows our understanding of what those good things are is a perversion of how He intended for good things in life to be and how they are to be enjoyed; The same can be said for sex, and music, and art, and food, and entertainment, and many other things that affect our senses directly in this world.

You want a Scripture? here's one: Rom 12:2 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=2) "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Now you can argue all you want about how God "approves" of you enjoying your beers and your martinis and your Piña Coladas and margaritas, and how in Christ we have freedom and we're not to be legalistic about things just "eat and drink and be merry for tomorrow we die", but the fact is we're just fooling ourselves when we believe He "approves" of us destroying ourselves, and though His mercy is great and His love covers a multitude of sins, His perfect will for our lives is so much more fulfilling and victorious than we could ever imagine if we just let Him show us how to truly enjoy life His way, and yes that does involve some self sacrifice on our part as we learn what it truly means to "die to ourselves" and let Christ live through us.

1 Cor, 6:19,20. "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." :hug:

I know I'm stepping on a lot of toes here, including my own, but this is one time I won't attempt to make any apologies for what I believe The Lord wants us to understand regarding this matter, and life in general, as I feel led of the Spirit to type, and I praise God for the freedom we now have in Christ, which is not freedom to do as we please, but freedom to not please to do as we used to, but to please Him instead. :amen:

Semi-tortured
Dec 3rd 2007, 07:02 PM
You bring up a good point? If a believer takes a drink or 2 or 3, where is it decided how much is "drunk". There are so many different degrees of what alcohol can do for you. Personally, for me I asked myself why I drank and after deep thought, realized that it relaxed me and to fit in. To me, those are not good reasons so I don't do it anymore.

I thought also about caffeine, sweets, eating more than you need (obesity) etc.... interesting but again, how much is too much? What is moderation, if there is a definition for it?

I personally think that in my view, very few people in this world can really stop with alcohol. Maybe I know too many people who took it too far when they were young but I think it is more common to lose control than it is to be responsible. I think everyone should really pray and think about whether or not they can handle all of the effects of alcohol.

That's the thing. What is moderation? It's an open ended word if there ever was one. How much is too much? Alcohol relaxing me is not a bad thing, IMO. If I drink it to fit in, then it's a bad thing because I'm trying to conform to the world. Tough to say. Since the Bible talks about drunkards, is it referring to an alcoholic? Is the sin of alcohol being in a position where you need it and it controls your life? Or is the sin the fact that you allowed it to make you feel a little giddy? It's such a broad definition because to some people, their definition of drunk is when they start to feel their legs relax a little bit. To others, drunk means vommiting and slurred speach. All I know is I knew when I was buzzed and feeling good, and when I crossed the line and became sloshed.

The argument of, "Well, would you drive if you had 2 beers in your system?" is pretty weak, IMO. Half the stuff in my medicine cabinet says not to operate heavy machinery after use. Allergy meds, Dayquil, Alka Seltzer...all these things impair. Are you taking them to help pain? Yes. But if I have stress from work and I come home and crack open a beer to unwind, is that any different?

coldfire136
Dec 3rd 2007, 07:39 PM
Drinking is a cultural issue, just as sex is a cultural issue in the other thread. End of story.

DanDMan64
Dec 4th 2007, 04:14 PM
Drinking is a cultural issue, just as sex is a cultural issue in the other thread. End of story. Hey Coldfire136, I'm not sure what you mean by this, I red your statements on "the other thread" about sex and it seems to me you were right on. That is, it seems to me you were saying, that even though in our culture all things that were morally unacceptable at one point, slowly gain acceptance and eventually become mainstream, we believers are not to conform to what our culture dictates is good or bad, but to what The Word of God says it's good and what it's bad, and take God's view of things over the world's view, and that should be the "End of story" for us.

If that's what you meant I fully agree with you. :amen:

Lefty
Dec 6th 2007, 03:20 AM
I dated a woman several years ago who happened to be from Greece, they do have very liberal views on sex there, and in many other places in Europe. Her views did not match mine, but I regret to say her views were put into action:( more times than I want to admit to. Fortunately I got out of that relationship and came to my senses. Looking back, I have no respect for that 'cultural' view and see it only as plain sin, and a failure of the church over there.

As far as drinking; When I've got just enough alcohol in me to 'take of the edge' and feel 'mellow', I find I'm past the point where I can commune with God. So, I drink very little. I imagine Jesus did the same and restricted wine drinking to just washing down food.

CoffeeBeaned
Dec 19th 2007, 05:12 PM
1 Cor, 6:19,20. "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." :hug:

Actually, if you read this verse in context, Paul is talking about sexual immorality. I believe that using this verse in this way is an incorrect interpretation. That's just my thoughts.

Here is the verse in context.

1 Cor 6:18-20
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Soj
Dec 19th 2007, 10:37 PM
Actually, if you read this verse in context, Paul is talking about sexual immorality. I believe that using this verse in this way is an incorrect interpretation. That's just my thoughts.

Here is the verse in context.

1 Cor 6:18-20
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.Regardless of context, there is a principle in the verse which can apply to many different aspects of our living, not just sexual immorality. The principle is that the Holy Spirit dwells in our body which has become the temple of God and we are to glorify Him in it, we are now God's property. Other scriptures teach us not to defile our temple as it is supposed to be holy (1 Corinthians 3:16-17).

Semi-tortured
Dec 19th 2007, 10:45 PM
Regardless of context, there is a principle in the verse which can apply to many different aspects of our living, not just sexual immorality. The principle is that the Holy Spirit dwells in our body which has become the temple of God and we are to glorify Him in it, we are now God's property. Other scriptures teach us not to defile our temple as it is supposed to be holy (1 Corinthians 3:16-17).

I agree. This verse does not have to pertain to only sexual immorality. The basic principle that the Holy Spirt dwells in you and your body has become a temple of God is a truth. All immoralities would defile it. Soj and I tend to disagree on drinking, but I do agree that you are to take care of your body as if it's a temple because, well, it is a temple.

Slug1
Dec 19th 2007, 10:55 PM
So why isn't fast food say, eating a double whopper with cheese and fries, equated with drinking a glass of wine if you're gonna use this scripture i.e. Sinful/harmful?

Eating this meal every day will kill you much faster then drinking a glass of wine every day.

I can make the list real long if this scripture is to be applied to everything that is harmful to my body (temple).

Soj
Dec 19th 2007, 11:06 PM
So why isn't fast food say, eating a double whopper with cheese and fries, equated with drinking a glass of wine if you're gonna use this scripture i.e. Sinful/harmful?Yeah but a double whopper, etc won't distort your judgment and reflexes like the booze will!

Slug1
Dec 19th 2007, 11:11 PM
Yeah but a double whopper, etc won't distort your judgment and reflexes like the booze will!Nor will a beer or two, or even a six-pack if consumed over an entire afternoon while BBQing.

I understand where you're coming from cause many can't control their consumption of alcohol.

I'm just asking cause I've seen this scripture seem to be used allot when dealing with alcohol, drugs, tattoo's, various addictions etc... but never sexual immorality and that's what it's specifically written for when read in context :hmm:

Friend of I AM
Dec 19th 2007, 11:43 PM
Yeah but a double whopper, etc won't distort your judgment and reflexes like the booze will!

I don't know man, with some of the stuff they put in fast food nowadays..I wouldn't be surprised...;)

Athanasius
Dec 20th 2007, 01:00 AM
Personal conviction (what does this actually mean?): No drinking
Playing with fire? Really the wisest thing?

So they say:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

brandonspopo
Dec 20th 2007, 01:20 AM
Using this logic to not even sip an alcoholic drink because it might lead to drunkeness would keep you from eating a bite of anything because it might lead to gluttony. That can't be the case.

Is there a difference between setting down and eating 2 large pizzas or drinking a 12 pack of beer??? Both are sin but we (Christians) think that the beer carries more of a sin weight and that is wrong.Your right. A sin is a sin is a sin. If the Spirit is convicting you not to drink, don't.

Soj
Dec 20th 2007, 01:59 AM
If the Spirit is convicting you not to drink, don't.Why would the Spirit of God convict some not to drink and not convict others?

Do you really believe it's all relative and that God doesn't have the same rules for all His children?

Athanasius
Dec 20th 2007, 02:02 AM
Why would the Spirit of God convict some not to drink and not convict others?

Do you really believe it's all relative and that God doesn't have the same rules for all His children?

Hence my question above. When people say 'personal conviction', what are they really saying?

brandonspopo
Dec 20th 2007, 02:26 AM
That's not what I'm saying at all. The Spirit may convict someone not to drink because He knows that they will be consumed by it and be an alcoholic. He may not convict another because that person is able to stop at one or two.
We are all individuals, not robots. God treats us all differently. We do all have to follow the same rules, not to do those things which are sinful. God is quite clear what sin is. We are to obey His commandments and His statutes. When issues such as this (drinking) occur, that is when the Spirit leads. If I believe that it is a sin for me to drink, than it is a sin for me. I pray that I have made my position clearer.
God bless,
Rick
Edit: Romans chapter 14 and Isaiah 30:21 are the references I use.

Soj
Dec 20th 2007, 03:28 AM
That's not what I'm saying at all. The Spirit may convict someone not to drink because He knows that they will be consumed by it and be an alcoholic. He may not convict another because that person is able to stop at one or two.
We are all individuals, not robots. God treats us all differently. We do all have to follow the same rules, not to do those things which are sinful. God is quite clear what sin is. We are to obey His commandments and His statutes. When issues such as this (drinking) occur, that is when the Spirit leads. If I believe that it is a sin for me to drink, than it is a sin for me. I pray that I have made my position clearer.
God bless,
Rick
Edit: Romans chapter 14 and Isaiah 30:21 are the references I use.Yep your position is clear, thanks Rick. :)

sjorgens
Dec 20th 2007, 04:20 AM
I can't drink because its a no no if you have severe neuropathy like me. I don't see having "A" drink as a sin but you have to becareful who you drink around because others who have a leaning towards abusing alcohol sometimes see it as a permission slip. Obviously God dosen't condone being drunk at all.
Sjorgens

Semi-tortured
Dec 20th 2007, 04:21 PM
That's not what I'm saying at all. The Spirit may convict someone not to drink because He knows that they will be consumed by it and be an alcoholic. He may not convict another because that person is able to stop at one or two.
We are all individuals, not robots. God treats us all differently. We do all have to follow the same rules, not to do those things which are sinful. God is quite clear what sin is. We are to obey His commandments and His statutes. When issues such as this (drinking) occur, that is when the Spirit leads. If I believe that it is a sin for me to drink, than it is a sin for me. I pray that I have made my position clearer.
God bless,
Rick
Edit: Romans chapter 14 and Isaiah 30:21 are the references I use.


The Spirit works the same way for good. I am often convicted to do something good as well. I may be feeling lazy. I look around my fiance's apartment and realize it needs to be cleaned (rugs, dishes, whatever). Now, she didn't tell me I had to do it. I certainly don't want to do it. But I feel the Spirit convicting me to do it because it would be a nice thing to do. It's not a sin to not wash the dishes. I am under no obligation to do it. But the Spirit moves in me and I get up off of my lazy butt and do it.

brandonspopo
Dec 21st 2007, 01:11 AM
The Spirit works the same way for good. I am often convicted to do something good as well. I may be feeling lazy. I look around my fiance's apartment and realize it needs to be cleaned (rugs, dishes, whatever). Now, she didn't tell me I had to do it. I certainly don't want to do it. But I feel the Spirit convicting me to do it because it would be a nice thing to do. It's not a sin to not wash the dishes. I am under no obligation to do it. But the Spirit moves in me and I get up off of my lazy butt and do it. That is what we call LOVE. The Holy Spirit leads our lives (or He should). I do the same thing in mi casa, too.:spin:
Rick