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walked
Oct 30th 2007, 02:04 AM
Hi,
I've waited for the Lord to qualify me with words to express this....so I'm really wanting some feedback on these thoughts of mine as to if I may be in error or may be on the right track on this subject.

If I feed the hungry or, give a drink to the thirsty or, bless the needs of the poor or, visit one in jail or sick in bed or, if I go and minister to His lost creation or, pray in intercession for my fellow man, all of these are acts of love/works we are commanded as called out ones to do, only second to loving God with obedience to Him.
....We can do them out of a since of obligation to Him.
....Or we can do them because of inspiration from His mercy and love shown and given to us and His creation.
But either way they are works/acts of obedience evidence of our love of Him that we are commanded to do by Him.
I think that If I do one of these works/acts motivated by a since of obligation then I have turned it into my work and not His work.
I think if I do one of these works/acts from a motivation inspired from His mercy and love for us and His creation, then He has done His works/acts through me and I have became a partner with Him in the building of Gods kingdom.

I think this has something to do with spawning a lot of 'works vs grace' arguments on threads with topics that have nothing at all to do this argument.

Friend of I AM
Oct 30th 2007, 02:19 AM
Hi,
I've waited for the Lord to qualify me with words to express this....so I'm really wanting some feedback on these thoughts of mine as to if I may be in error or may be on the right track on this subject.

Most recently in my life I now wont do things I feel obligated to do in response to God, I actually examine my motives to see if they come from an obligation or if they come from an inspiration...and will do them if they don't come from an obligation but are just inspired by His revealed love for His creation which motivates me to respond in kind...and then I turn and praise Him for the opportunity to be obedient.

If I feed the hungry or give a drink to the thirsty or bless the needs of the poor or visit one in jail or sick in bed or if I go and minister to His lost creation or pray in intercession for my fellow man, all of these are acts of love/works we are commanded as called out ones to do, only second to loving God with obedience to Him.
....We can do them out of a since of obligation to Him.
....Or we can do them because of inspiration from His mercy and love shown and given to us and His creation.
But either way they are works/acts of obedience evidence of our love of Him that we are commanded to do by Him.
I think that If I do one of these works/acts motivated by a since of obligation then I have turned it into my work and not His work.
I think if I do one of these works/acts from a motivation inspired from His mercy and love for us and His creation, then He has done His works/acts through me and I have became a partner with Him in the building of Gods kingdom.

I think this has something to do with spawning a lot of 'works vs grace' arguments on threads with topics that have nothing at all to do this argument.

I don't think the two ideas are mutually exclusive. I can feel obligated to do something for the one that I love, and this obligation and dedication that I have to them can also inspire me and motivate me as well. This is the case with all of those who I consider to be close to me. I think Godly inspiration really comes into play within a man's life - when God instills him with Love outside of the normal bounds of just helping those that He is close to, and the man starts to try to assist and bring light to those that He isn't close to.

So I guess in the initial phases - obligation/dedication/obedience to God demonstrates our Love for him and usually comes first, and after we know that we are in love with God, then He is able to inspire us to share His Love with others, particularly to those that we normally wouldn't share His Love with.

walked
Oct 30th 2007, 02:36 AM
I don't think the two ideas are mutually exclusive. I can feel obligated to do something for the one that I love, and this obligation and dedication that I have to them can also inspire me and motivate me as well. This is the case with all of those who I consider to be close to me. I think Godly inspiration really comes into play within a man's life - when God instills him with Love outside of the normal bounds of just helping those that He is close to, and the man starts to try to assist and bring light to those that He isn't close to.

So I guess in the initial phases - obligation/dedication/obedience to God demonstrates our Love for him and usually comes first, and after we know that we are in love with God, then He is able to inspire us to share His Love with others, particularly to those that we normally wouldn't share His Love with.

Ok thank you,

I was referring to: me applying this to only the relationship between myself and God and, not to my relationship with my fellows around me.
And I will edit my original post to keep that misunderstanding from happening again, thank you.

Friend of I AM
Oct 30th 2007, 03:25 AM
Ok thank you,

I was referring to: me applying this to only the relationship between myself and God and, not to my relationship with my fellows around me.
And I will edit my original post to keep that misunderstanding from happening again, thank you.

Oh..okay. I don't think though Love is mutually exclusive from obligation, it consists of both obligation and inspiration. I don't think an inspired man can do God's will if He isn't first dedicated to, has faith in, and feels a sense of obligation to follow the divine inspiration/commands of God's Word given to man.

I think the question to ask yourself is this - if I feel no longing, dedication, or obligation to obey God - how or why would I expect to receive any inspiration from my creator?

Inspiration is simply a sharing of ideas and thoughts. We share our most intimate thoughts and ideas with those who show love for us. The Love of God within a man equates to a man's desire, or specifically - his longing to be dedicated and obligated to fulfill/obey the commands of the Lord. Or as David put's it in the Psalms:

Psalm 112:1
Praise the LORD!
Happy are those who fear the LORD,
who greatly delight in his commandments.

Friend of I AM
Oct 30th 2007, 03:32 AM
Another Psalm from David regarding his dedication and devotion to the Lord....

Psalm 86:1-2
Hear, O LORD, and answer me, for I am poor and needy. Guard my life, for I am devoted to you. You are my God; save your servant who trusts in you.

So I think true Godly inspiration only comes after dedication, devotion, and obedience. Christ's emphasizes the importance of obedience to His Word being synonomous with loving Him throughout the entire New Testament.

walked
Oct 30th 2007, 05:56 AM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and comments friend of I am (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=23044)

Christsfreeservant
Oct 30th 2007, 06:58 AM
This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my daughters-in-law over lunch yesterday. She is being so sensitized to God's voice in obeying him in areas where she was once bound by fear and it is exciting to watch her faith grow. She is fairly a new believer in Christ and she is in love with Jesus so she does her acts out of inspiration, not obligation. Though I do understand that there is a commitment in our relationship with Jesus, I do believe there is a difference between obligation and dedication.

Obligation: compulsion; duty; responsibility; requirement; something that must be done because of legal or moral duty.

Dedication: the quality of being devoted or committed to something or someone; devotion; enthusiasm; loyalty.

We were talking about how Christians often struggle to have a daily quiet time with the Lord. I told her that the reason so many struggle with this is because they see their time with the Lord as an obligation - something they must do. So many will say, "I know I'm SUPPOSED TO have time with the Lord in prayer and in the word but I just can't seem to fit it in my schedule." They see it as just another chore that they must do.

On the other hand, I told her, if we would all see our time with Jesus as time being spent in developing a love relationship with someone, then we would want to have our quiet times with God, not out of a sense of duty or obligation or as another religious chore to do, but out of a heart of love and devotion. We would see the Lord as the love of our lives - the person we want to be with the most, to tell our hopes and dreams to, that we will rise early in the morning or stay up late at night just to have time with him in getting to know him. We would all be like Mary just sitting at Jesus' feet basking in his every word.

II Corinthians 9:6-8: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

walked
Oct 30th 2007, 08:55 AM
This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my daughters-in-law over lunch yesterday. She is being so sensitized to God's voice in obeying him in areas where she was once bound by fear and it is exciting to watch her faith grow. She is fairly a new believer in Christ and she is in love with Jesus so she does her acts out of inspiration, not obligation. Though I do understand that there is a commitment in our relationship with Jesus, I do believe there is a difference between obligation and dedication.

Obligation: compulsion; duty; responsibility; requirement; something that must be done because of legal or moral duty.

Dedication: the quality of being devoted or committed to something or someone; devotion; enthusiasm; loyalty.

We were talking about how Christians often struggle to have a daily quiet time with the Lord. I told her that the reason so many struggle with this is because they see their time with the Lord as an obligation - something they must do. So many will say, "I know I'm SUPPOSED TO have time with the Lord in prayer and in the word but I just can't seem to fit it in my schedule." They see it as just another chore that they must do.

On the other hand, I told her, if we would all see our time with Jesus as time being spent in developing a love relationship with someone, then we would want to have our quiet times with God, not out of a sense of duty or obligation or as another religious chore to do, but out of a heart of love and devotion. We would see the Lord as the love of our lives - the person we want to be with the most, to tell our hopes and dreams to, that we will rise early in the morning or stay up late at night just to have time with him in getting to know him. We would all be like Mary just sitting at Jesus' feet basking in his every word.

II Corinthians 9:6-8: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

Thank you, I'm glad I am not alone in this way of thinking.
I know in the world when someone feels obligated it will eventually lead to resentment of the one they are obligated to.
....Like if I pass a charity and I give freely, inspired and give from my heart then afterward I feel lifted, warm and joyful.
....Or if I pass a charity and I feel obligated and give, somehow I just don't feel lifted, warm and joyful afterward but, actually feel proud or satisfied like I have just paid off a loan.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinion.
God bless you.

Friend of I AM
Oct 30th 2007, 11:36 AM
Hmm. You guys do make some very good points. Consider this though, without first having a sense of fulfilling an obligation for a specific moral duty, it would be difficult for one to develop a sense of devotion or faithfulness to those that they are fulfilling that duty for.

For example - when Christ first came down to earth to sacrafice himself for our sins, one could say that he was first obligated to fulfill this purpose for his Father and for us - despite not wanting to completely go through the process of being crucified for crimes he didn't commit.

Another good analogy of how obligation is involved in Love would be a marriage between a husband and wife. When one originally reads their marriage vows, they are told of their obligations and/or duties that they are responsable for in fulfilling to their betrothed during the marriage.

I think though that as we grow in grace, love, and understanding for our creator, this sense of obligation should gradually transform into loving devotion. Without this tranformation - we won't be able to experience the fullness of God's Love within our lives.

Friend of I AM
Oct 30th 2007, 11:48 AM
Last post/analogy for now..promise...:)

I am a single parent. I did not have to choose to be a single parent, but I felt obligated in taking care of my son and taking him away from his mother - seeing as how he wasn't being very well taken care of by her.

I also knew that no one else would step forward to take care of him, so I felt obliged to go about doing what I knew was right - despite not completely wanting to go about taking on additional responsability initially. Now, if I did not first feel any sense of obligation or moral duty to take care of him - then I don't think I would have ever stepped forward and put the burden on myself for such a task.

Sold Out
Oct 30th 2007, 01:01 PM
Hi,
I've waited for the Lord to qualify me with words to express this....so I'm really wanting some feedback on these thoughts of mine as to if I may be in error or may be on the right track on this subject.

If I feed the hungry or, give a drink to the thirsty or, bless the needs of the poor or, visit one in jail or sick in bed or, if I go and minister to His lost creation or, pray in intercession for my fellow man, all of these are acts of love/works we are commanded as called out ones to do, only second to loving God with obedience to Him.
....We can do them out of a since of obligation to Him.
....Or we can do them because of inspiration from His mercy and love shown and given to us and His creation.
But either way they are works/acts of obedience evidence of our love of Him that we are commanded to do by Him.
I think that If I do one of these works/acts motivated by a since of obligation then I have turned it into my work and not His work.
I think if I do one of these works/acts from a motivation inspired from His mercy and love for us and His creation, then He has done His works/acts through me and I have became a partner with Him in the building of Gods kingdom.

I think this has something to do with spawning a lot of 'works vs grace' arguments on threads with topics that have nothing at all to do this argument.

I think it comes down to what your spiritual gift is. God invested in each believer a gift, and He expects a return on His investment!

Now if you are as you described above (helping the poor, sick, elderly) you most likely have the gifts of helps & mercy. If God invested those gifts in you, it is your obligation to use the gift for the body of Christ. Read the parable of the talents in Matthew 25 to see what God thinks about us using our spiritual gift(s).

Now lets use me as an example. I do not have the gifts of helps & mercy, but if a situation presented itself and I were called upon to serve in that capacity at a given time, I would honor God by helping someone. It's not my gift, but I could exercise some mercy if I had to.

Does that make sense?

Frances
Oct 30th 2007, 07:11 PM
I believe the reason each person does something is what interests God - the motive is what is important. You and I might kid ourselves our motive is one thing when God knows it is something else . . . He sees our hearts.

walked
Oct 30th 2007, 11:02 PM
I think it comes down to what your spiritual gift is. God invested in each believer a gift, and He expects a return on His investment!

Now if you are as you described above (helping the poor, sick, elderly) you most likely have the gifts of helps & mercy. If God invested those gifts in you, it is your obligation to use the gift for the body of Christ. Read the parable of the talents in Matthew 25 to see what God thinks about us using our spiritual gift(s).

Now lets use me as an example. I do not have the gifts of helps & mercy, but if a situation presented itself and I were called upon to serve in that capacity at a given time, I would honor God by helping someone. It's not my gift, but I could exercise some mercy if I had to.

Does that make sense?
Amen, we will be held accountable.

walked
Oct 30th 2007, 11:04 PM
I believe the reason each person does something is what interests God - the motive is what is important. You and I might kid ourselves our motive is one thing when God knows it is something else . . . He sees our hearts.
Amen, God can and does see our hearts/our motives clearly even when we cant but, I make it a practice now to examine my motives before I act.

Partaker of Christ
Oct 30th 2007, 11:44 PM
Amen, God can and does see our hearts/our motives clearly even when we cant but, I make it a practice now to examine my motives before I act.

Hi Walked!
Your reply reminded me of this beautiful Psalm, especially the last two verses. Knowing how deceitful our hearts are, it is better to get our Lords opinion.


Psa 139:1 For the choir director. A Psalm of David. O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
Psa 139:2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar.
Psa 139:3 You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with all my ways.
Psa 139:4 Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.
Psa 139:5 You have enclosed me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me.
Psa 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is too high, I cannot attain to it.
Psa 139:7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
Psa 139:10 Even there Your hand will lead me, And Your right hand will lay hold of me.
Psa 139:11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me, And the light around me will be night,"
Psa 139:12 Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You.
Psa 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.
Psa 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
Psa 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.
Psa 139:17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How vast is the sum of them!
Psa 139:18 If I should count them, they would outnumber the sand. When I awake, I am still with You.
Psa 139:19 O that You would slay the wicked, O God; Depart from me, therefore, men of bloodshed.
Psa 139:20 For they speak against You wickedly, And Your enemies take Your name in vain.
Psa 139:21 Do I not hate those who hate You, O LORD? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
Psa 139:22 I hate them with the utmost hatred; They have become my enemies.
Psa 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts;
Psa 139:24 And see if there be any hurtful way in me, And lead me in the everlasting way.

walked
Oct 31st 2007, 12:11 AM
Thank you partaker of Christ (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=23952).

Psalms and Proverbs are two of my many favorite books.
The last Psalm you posted :Psa 139:24 And see if there be any hurtful way in me, And lead me in the everlasting way.

Wouldn't that mean he knows he should wait to be lead or inspired by God before deciding to act?