PDA

View Full Version : Romans study



beachbum53
Nov 5th 2007, 05:53 PM
Debra R and I were talking about 'peace', especially in work situations. After thinking of how to better manage handling work situations, we decided to do a study of Romans here. I've personally not done so well with God's commandments in chapter 12 at my stressful job lately. I had a 'strong reminder' yesterday that I need to depend on Him more than I have the last few months. A study focusing on His wonderful grace will enable me/us to rely more on the power of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 5:1-5
1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

So I'm excited to start this study; we welcome all of you who would like to join us!
You sure don't have to work outside the home either, just to clarify!

I hope by tomorrow evening to get started.

SetFree
Nov 5th 2007, 06:32 PM
Excellent idea! I am in the midst of starting a new career and the learning curve is shattering my peace and my confidence so I would love to join in with you.

"tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character"

Boy, do I ever need to be reminded of that!!

Debra R
Nov 5th 2007, 11:12 PM
:hug:Yeah Laura! :pp

Good to see you SetFree! :hug:

I am excited about this study!

It is hard to keep from being anxious or upset about situations we find ourselves in. Especially the work place. Just trying to remain calm and at peace when you're faced with some impossible co-workers :D. Or impossible timetables! Lord have mercy!

It is no fun being stressed! And we shouldn't have to be. I want to be able to rely more on Jesus, on the power of the Holy Spirit. To have His peace upon me continually. He has promised us peace. So we are going to study and find how to get it and keep it and not let the actions of others take it away from us. :)

Love you my sisters!

Debra R
Nov 5th 2007, 11:28 PM
Debra R and I were talking about 'peace', especially in work situations. After thinking of how to better manage handling work situations, we decided to do a study of Romans here. I've personally not done so well with God's commandments in chapter 12 at my stressful job lately. I had a 'strong reminder' yesterday that I need to depend on Him more than I have the last few months. A study focusing on His wonderful grace will enable me/us to rely more on the power of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 5:1-5
1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

So I'm excited to start this study; we welcome all of you who would like to join us!
You sure don't have to work outside the home either, just to clarify!

I hope by tomorrow evening to get started.

In verse 1 (we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ) I am reminded of Isaiah, this from the Amplified Bible....
Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole.

And Jesus said in John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

And we can overcome with Him by our side. :)

Lyndie
Nov 6th 2007, 12:37 AM
I'd love to join in this, I just read Romans, again :rolleyes: and am still up in the air about quitting mine. I think this would help me out alot.

HopeFaithLove
Nov 6th 2007, 02:39 AM
Romans 5:1-5
1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


Thank you for these verses! :hug:

I just want to add that these verses, don't just pertain to work situations, but 'life' situations, in general. :)
I'm struggling, being a single mom, while working to provide for us.....and the verses, remind me to continue & have peace & hope that in Him everything will be alright.
Also, I find, as I continue down this 'road' that He lifts me up & continues to bless me, as I continue to 'stand strong' in Him. :amen:

beachbum53
Nov 6th 2007, 03:00 AM
Hello SetFree and Lyndie! :hug:

Hey Debra, hello :hug:, thanks for posting already!


I wanted to get a 'plan' by tomorrow for this; my cleaning isn't doing so well today :rolleyes: so thought I would just 'wing it' tonight and start. :)


I'm excited to be here; we can all help one another learn. :pp


Ephesians 4:11-13
11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.


Isaiah 9:6 tells us of Gods "covenant of peace" with His people that assures us of a relationship with Jesus who is our peace.


6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

And of course this one in Philippians 4
7And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Well we all know we could fill pages about doctrine with peace in it. It occurs in every NT book except John 1.

Malachi 2:6
6"True instruction was in his mouth and unrighteousness was not found on his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many back from iniquity.

We need to walk with by faith and obedience to enjoy His peace. I know when I'm 'out of' fellowship with Him I sure don't feel His peace.

Ephesians 6:15 tells us the gospel message is called "the gospel of peace"

14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, 15and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;

Romans teaches us about faith and God's grace; it teaches us the necessity of living in joyful obedience. We can only obey Him by living with the power of His divine grace that has been freely given to us.

I'm a bit slow typing and 'grasping things' so I'm sorry if I let someone out that posted before I was finished here.

Ok before we start verses I thought we could start with the following question.


If you compared your life-style before and after you became a Christian, what changes did Christ make in your life.

beachbum53
Nov 6th 2007, 03:09 AM
Thank you for these verses! :hug:

I just want to add that these verses, don't just pertain to work situations, but 'life' situations, in general. :)
I'm struggling, being a single mom, while working to provide for us.....and the verses, remind me to continue & have peace & hope that in Him everything will be alright.
Also, I find, as I continue down this 'road' that He lifts me up & continues to bless me, as I continue to 'stand strong' in Him. :amen:

Hi HopeFaithLove!

Oh YES I totally agree, all Jesus' teachings pertain to all our 'life' [[period]]
I am and have been struggling at work with keeping calm dealing with so much stress and negativity; I want to go home each day making Jesus proud. It's just one area that I have the most trouble with lately and I've been doing worse.

Glad to see you!

beachbum53
Nov 6th 2007, 04:41 AM
Since I have to stay up and tape the Steelers :rolleyes: ..........I'll post few verses.


1Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,
3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,
6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.
9For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,
10always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.
11For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;
12that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine.
13I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles.
14I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish.
15So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

Verse one... I see....God had 'previous plans' for Paul :), of course knowing how he would persecute His church. What a loving and merciful God we have.

Verse 2
Paul emphasizes that this Good News didn't start with him. It started with the prophets of the OT; my favorite is Isaiah 53. The Hebrew scriptures have been completed by Jesus Christ.


verses 8-15 show some great leadership [[and all]] qualities for Christians to have, prayer for one another, encouraging each other, thankful for each other

Paul was just so 'dog-gone' in love with Jesus and his enthusiasm was awesome!


I'm too tired to finish...carry on...:lol:

Lyndie
Nov 6th 2007, 06:18 PM
Ephesians 4:11-13
11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.


Isaiah 9:6 tells us of Gods "covenant of peace" with His people that assures us of a relationship with Jesus who is our peace.


6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

And of course this one in Philippians 4
7And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Well we all know we could fill pages about doctrine with peace in it. It occurs in every NT book except John 1.

Malachi 2:6
6"True instruction was in his mouth and unrighteousness was not found on his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many back from iniquity.

We need to walk with by faith and obedience to enjoy His peace. I know when I'm 'out of' fellowship with Him I sure don't feel His peace.

Ephesians 6:15 tells us the gospel message is called "the gospel of peace"

14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, 15and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;

Romans teaches us about faith and God's grace; it teaches us the necessity of living in joyful obedience. We can only obey Him by living with the power of His divine grace that has been freely given to us.

I'm a bit slow typing and 'grasping things' so I'm sorry if I let someone out that posted before I was finished here.

Ok before we start verses I thought we could start with the following question.




If you compared your life-style before and after you became a Christian, what changes did Christ make in your life.




I can tell you right off the bat, peace is something I struggle with daily, for many different reasons. But to answer your question- Before I became a Christian, I was a full blown alcoholic. To make a long story short, I have been delivered from that, praise God. It seemed I had a sort of peace for a while, but never a full secure kind of peace, and I know that comes from my lack of trust in God. I know part of my problem recently is I don't feel I am in God's will, especially with my job, so no peace. I believe faith, peace and joy work in harmony, you can't have one without the other.
It also has much to do with understanding grace. I know a few times in the NT, a greeting was "Grace and peace to you..." So they do go together. Not sure how though. Hence the question-What do I do, and what do I let God do? I guess that's all I can contribute for now.

SetFree
Nov 6th 2007, 06:50 PM
Hello SetFree and Lyndie! :hug:

Ok before we start verses I thought we could start with the following question.


If you compared your life-style before and after you became a Christian, what changes did Christ make in your life.







It is hard to pick out specific changes because as God works in my life, things change gradually as I grow more Christ like. For instance, when I first recommitted my life to Jesus, I was going through my divorce and at that time, all I asked of Him was to get through each day and for provision. Now, I am maturing and seeking His will even more and things are constantly being shown to me that I have to improve on or change and it is so gradual I don't notice the work being done in me, usually, until I look back. That is a pretty rambling answer and it probably makes no sense to anyone but me, lol.

As far as the new verses being posted, I find it really interesting how Paul asked that they reach out to each other and encourage each other because the power of those around you is amazing. In the job change I am currently undergoing, hearing a supportive word or a story of somebody who struggled through the initial months and made it is so inspiring and makes me want to dig in, whereas when I focus on my concerns and the concerns of those in the same place as me, I sink deeper into doubt and discouragement.

Anyway, to make a short story long, surrounding yourself with positive people and uplifting messages can make peace much easier to attain, whenever possible.

beachbum53
Nov 6th 2007, 09:14 PM
I can tell you right off the bat, peace is something I struggle with daily, for many different reasons. But to answer your question- Before I became a Christian, I was a full blown alcoholic. To make a long story short, I have been delivered from that, praise God. It seemed I had a sort of peace for a while, but never a full secure kind of peace, and I know that comes from my lack of trust in God. I know part of my problem recently is I don't feel I am in God's will, especially with my job, so no peace. I believe faith, peace and joy work in harmony, you can't have one without the other.
It also has much to do with understanding grace. I know a few times in the NT, a greeting was "Grace and peace to you..." So they do go together. Not sure how though. Hence the question-What do I do, and what do I let God do? I guess that's all I can contribute for now.

Lyndie ,
Wow I think that in itself is a great testimony! How awesome!
Trusting :hmm: perhaps to start, if you can concentrate for a few days on the psalms. :)

Promise to get back to you on how grace and peace go together. You too Setfree

DH came home and we're going to go eat.

Debra R
Nov 6th 2007, 11:10 PM
I'd love to join in this, I just read Romans, again :rolleyes: and am still up in the air about quitting mine. I think this would help me out alot.


Hi Lyndie :hug:, I was ready to quit mine a few weeks ago :D. I have decided I am going to find a different job at the beginning of the year. I've been there 6 years. I've been through a lot there :B.
And maybe the Lord does want me to move on. I am praying about it.

God bless you :hug:

Debra R
Nov 6th 2007, 11:15 PM
Thank you for these verses! :hug:

I just want to add that these verses, don't just pertain to work situations, but 'life' situations, in general. :)
I'm struggling, being a single mom, while working to provide for us.....and the verses, remind me to continue & have peace & hope that in Him everything will be alright.
Also, I find, as I continue down this 'road' that He lifts me up & continues to bless me, as I continue to 'stand strong' in Him. :amen:

Definitely! Those verses and the entire Bible tell us how to live our daily lives. The Bible helps us in every aspect of our lives.

:hug:I'm sorry you are struggling, I know how hard it can be.



Also, I find, as I continue down this 'road' that He lifts me up & continues to bless me, as I continue to 'stand strong' in Him.


Amen! God bless you :hug:

Debra R
Nov 7th 2007, 12:56 AM
Ok before we start verses I thought we could start with the following question.



If you compared your life-style before and after you became a Christian, what changes did Christ make in your life.



Before I knew Christ, I didn't like people very much :D. Didn't trust anyone. I had a very hard heart. I drank a lot. Very selfish. Cursing was like a second language. I didn't like me much either.

Christ changed my heart. He gave me a love for His people. He gave me compassion and mercy. He took the cursing away. He gave me back my selfworth. He gave me dignity. I had always been very shy. I had a hard time talking to people. I'm not so shy anymore :).

I think this was a hard question. :D

Debra R
Nov 7th 2007, 01:08 AM
12that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine.



I read this chapter this morning before work. It is great how we are encouraged by each other's faith. How we can uplift each other. I think that makes our Lord happy. :)

beachbum53
Nov 7th 2007, 02:22 AM
wow I was looking in depth at Romans today and wow there is a lot to cover in just chapter one!

Hope no one is in a hurry :lol:
Paul tells seven aspects of the good news of Jesus Christ

1] identifies himself as the preacher of the good news vs.1
2] tells of the promise vs.2
3] tell of the Person vs 3-4
4] the provision vs 5
5] the proclamation vs 5
6] the purpose vs 5
7]privileges of the good news vs 6-7



1Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

Paul first explained who he was, and established his authority of his ministry; He was divinely chosen by God. God revealed to him that he had been set apart by God’s grace even from his mother’s womb.
Gal. 1:15 15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased

2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,

The writer of Hebrews also began with mention of the prophets
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

in order to fulfill prophecy the Messiah had to be a descendant of David


5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;


7to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Oh I have a dumb :lol: headache and have to give it up for now, sorry :)
have to do my 12 hrs[[means almost 14 :lol:] next 2 days again so I don't know when I will get to finish this part, but you guys don't have to wait on me...

Thanks all :hug:

HopeFaithLove
Nov 7th 2007, 03:35 AM
I'm reading thru this thread and it's truely very inspiring to me. :)

I wish I had more time to think thru it and wasn't soooooo tired from work that I could post some thoughts. :sleeping:

God bless you all, & please continue to post verses & thoughts about them, I'm enjoying reading them. :hug:


On a 'side note' one verse (in particular) that stands out to me & helps me to have faith and be at peace 'in life' is Proverbs 3:5

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding."

It reminds me that I'm not solely in control of my life and I can release my stress and 'burden' unto Him and trust Him that it will all work out. ;)

Okay :OFFT:

Debra R
Nov 7th 2007, 12:21 PM
I'm reading thru this thread and it's truely very inspiring to me. :)

I wish I had more time to think thru it and wasn't soooooo tired from work that I could post some thoughts. :sleeping:

God bless you all, & please continue to post verses & thoughts about them, I'm enjoying reading them. :hug:


On a 'side note' one verse (in particular) that stands out to me & helps me to have faith and be at peace 'in life' is Proverbs 3:5

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding."

It reminds me that I'm not solely in control of my life and I can release my stress and 'burden' unto Him and trust Him that it will all work out. ;)

Okay :OFFT:

:hug: oh yes, I cling to Proverbs 3:5-6 too. Especially in not leaning on my own understanding. So many things happening that there is no way I can understand why. I have to trust in God's plan. And that's the only thing that keeps me sane at time. :D

I know He has a greater plan. This verse comes to mind.....Proverbs 16:9 A man’s heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

I have to go now. I hope you all have a wonderful day in our Lord. :hug:

SetFree
Nov 7th 2007, 04:50 PM
Something interesting that came up a while ago in a study I was doing was how in verse 1 Paul referred to himself as a 'slave' of Jesus Christ (New Living Translation). Usually, slave has such negative connotations and just the word makes a lot of people want to rebel so for Paul to use it in such a positive way of being truly committed makes me really wonder if I am a 'slave' to God's will in my life. Especially when I consider that God has placed me in this job for a reason and has commanded me to obey those who have authority over me, so when I do my best at work, I am working for Jesus not necessarily my boss (though they benefit).

Hmmmm, I can think of a lot of times I have been slaving to and for worldly things and ignoring God. Something to do some reflecting on, anyway.

Debra R
Nov 8th 2007, 04:32 AM
It also has much to do with understanding grace. I know a few times in the NT, a greeting was "Grace and peace to you..." So they do go together. Not sure how though. Hence the question-What do I do, and what do I let God do? I guess that's all I can contribute for now.


I was thinking on grace and peace and looked up several verses that talked about grace and peace. These two really stood out to me......
(NASB) 1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;

I need more understanding on grace and peace so I did some searching on studylight.org and found this. It is kind of long, I copied and pasted some but not all.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Grace


1. The Word Charis:
In the English New Testament the word "grace" is always a translation of (charis), a word that occurs in the Greek text something over 170 times (the reading is uncertain in places). In secular Greek of all periods it is also a very common word, and in both Biblical and secular Greek it is used with far more meanings than can be represented by any one term in English Primarily

2. Grace as Power:
Naturally, the various meanings of the word were simply taken over from ordinary language by the New Testament writers. And so it is quite illegitimate to try to construct on the basis of all the occurrences of the word a single doctrine that will account for all the various usages. That one word could express both "charm of speech" and "thankfulness for blessings" was doubtless felt to be a mere accident, if it was thought of at all. But none the less, the very elasticity of the word enabled it to receive still another--new and technically Christian--meaning. This seems to have originated in part by fusing together two of the ordinary significances. In the first place, as in (e) above, charis may mean "a gift." In 1 Corinthians 16:3 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1co+16:3); 2 Corinthians 8:19 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2co+8:19) it is the money given by the Corinthians to the Jerusalemites. In 2 Corinthians 9:8 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2co+9:8) it is the increase of worldly goods that God grants for charitable purposes. In 2 Corinthians 1:15 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2co+1:15) it is the benefit received by the Corinthians from a visit by Paul. In a more spiritual sense charis is the endowment for an office in the church (Ephesians 4:7 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=eph+4:7)), more particularly for the apostolate (Romans 1:5 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+1:5); 12:3 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+12:3); 15:15 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+15:15); 1 Corinthians 3:10 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1co+3:10); Ephesians 3:2,7 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=eph+3:2,7)). So in 1 Corinthians 1:4-7 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1co+1:4-7) margin charis is expanded into "word and all knowledge," endowments with which the Corinthians were especially favored. In 1 Peter 1:13 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1pe+1:13) charis is the future heavenly blessedness that Christians are to receive; in 3:7 it is the present gift of "life." In the second place, charis is the word for God's favor, a sense of the term that is especially refined by Paul (see below). But God's favor differs from man's in that it cannot be conceived of as inactive. A favorable "thought" of God's about a man involves of necessity the reception of some blessing by that man, and "to look with favor" is one of the commonest Biblical paraphrases for "bestow a blessing." Between "God's favor" and "God's favors" there exists a relation of active power, and as charis denoted both the favor and the favors, it was the natural word for the power that connected them. This use is very clear in 1 Corinthians 15:10 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1co+15:10), where Paul says, "not I, but the grace of God which was with me" labored more abundantly than they all:
grace is something that labors. So in 2 Corinthians 12:9 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2co+12:9), "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my power is made perfect in weakness"; compare 2 Timothy 2:1 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2ti+2:1), "strengthened in the grace," and 1 Peter 4:10 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1pe+4:10), "stewards of the manifold grace." Evidently in this sense "grace" is almost a synonym for the Spirit (see HOLY SPIRIT), and there is little real difference between "full of the Holy Spirit" and "full of grace and power" in Acts 6:5,8 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ac+6:5,8), while there is a very striking parallel between Ephesians 4:7-13 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=eph+4:7-13) and 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1co+12:4-11), with "gifts of grace" in the one passage, and "gifts of the Spirit" in the other. And this connection between grace and the Spirit is found definitely in the formula "Spirit of grace" in Hebrews 10:29 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=heb+10:29) (compare Zechariah 12:10 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=zec+12:10)). And, as is well known, it is from this sense of the word that the Catholic doctrine of grace developed.






The New Testament Greek Lexicon
Definition:
grace
that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
good will, loving-kindness, favour
of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
what is due to grace
the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
the token or proof of grace, benefit
a gift of grace
benefit, bounty
thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Peace

1. In the Old Testament:

(3) Inward peace was the portion of the righteous who trusted in God (Job 22:21 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=job+22:21), "Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace (shalam)"; Psalms 4:8 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ps+4:8); 85:8 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ps+85:8), "He will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints"; 119:165; Proverbs 3:2,17 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=pr+3:2,17); Isaiah 26:3 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=isa+26:3), "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace (Hebrew "peace, peace"), whose mind is stayed on thee; because he trusteth in thee"; Malachi 2:5 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=mal+2:5)); also outward peace (Job 5:23,24 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=job+5:23,24); Proverbs 16:7 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=pr+16:7), etc.).
(4) Peace was to be sought and followed by the righteous (Psalms 34:14 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ps+34:14), "Seek peace, and pursue it"; Zechariah 8:16,19 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=zec+8:16,19), "Love truth and peace").

2. In the New Testament:

(1) The gospel in Christ is a message of peace from God to men (Luke 2:14 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=lu+2:14); Acts 10:36 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ac+10:36), "preaching .... peace by Jesus Christ"). It is "peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," in Romans 5:1 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+5:1); the King James Version 10:15; peace between Jew and Gentile (Ephesians 2:14,15 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=eph+2:14,15)); an essential element in the spiritual kingdom of God (Romans 14:17 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+14:17)).
(2) It is to be cherished and followed by Christians. Jesus exhorted His disciples, "Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace one with another" (Mark 9:50 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=mr+9:50)); Paul exhorts, "Live in peace:
and the God of love and peace shall be with you" (2 Corinthians 13:11 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2co+13:11); compare Romans 12:18 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+12:18); 1 Corinthians 7:15 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1co+7:15)).
(3) God is therefore "the God of peace," the Author and Giver of all good ("peace" including every blessing) very frequently (e.g. Romans 15:33 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+15:33); 16:20 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=ro+16:20); 2 Thessalonians 3:16 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2th+3:16), etc., "the Lord of peace"). "Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" is a common apostolic wish or salutation (compare 1 Corinthians 1:3 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=1co+1:3); 2 Corinthians 1:2 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=2co+1:2), etc.).
(4) We have also "peace" as a greeting (Matthew 10:13 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=mt+10:13); Luke 10:5 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=lu+10:5)); "a son of peace" (Luke 10:6 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=lu+10:6)) is one worthy of it, in sympathy with it; the Lord's own greeting to His disciples was "Peace be unto you" (Luke 24:36 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=lu+24:36); John 20:19,21,26 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=joh+20:19,21,26)), and ere He left them He gave them specially His blessing of "Peace" (John 14:27 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=joh+14:27)); we have also frequently "Go in peace" (Mark 5:34 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=mr+5:34); Luke 7:50 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=lu+7:50)). In Luke 19:38 (http://www.bibleforums.org/desk/?query=lu+19:38), we have "peace in heaven" (in the acclamation of Jesus on His Messianic entry of Jerusalem).
(5) The peace that Christ brought is primarily spiritual peace from and with God, peace in the heart, peace as the disposition or spirit. He said that He did not come "to send peace on the earth, but a sword," referring to the searching nature of His call and the divisions and clearances it would create. But, of course, the spirit of the gospel and of the Christian is one of peace, and it is a Christian duty to seek to bring war and strife everywhere to an end. This is represented as the ultimate result of the gospel and Spirit of Christ; universal and permanent peace can come only as that Spirit rules in men's hearts.


Peace- Definition:
a state of national tranquillity
exemption from the rage and havoc of war
peace between individuals, i.e. harmony, concord security, safety, prosperity, felicity, (because peace and harmony make and keep things safe and prosperous) of the Messiah's peace
the way that leads to peace (salvation)
of Christianity, the tranquil state of a soul assured of its salvation through Christ, and so fearing nothing from God and content with its earthly lot, of whatsoever sort that is the blessed state of devout and upright men after death.


I thought this was interesting and may need to read it over a few times and look up the scripture.

Blessings :):hug:

Debra R
Nov 8th 2007, 10:52 PM
Just a few thoughts for now, then I have to go grocery shopping :eek:.

This verse stuck in my head this morning... Psalm 34:14 Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.

I did a reference check on that verse and got these verses....

Romans 14:19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.

Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

So for me that means I have to seek peace with those who aggravate me, for me at this time it's my work situation, long sigh here........ :(, and at times it's tough, but if I do that to the best of my ability then I know I have done my best and that it is pleasing to God and for me that is what matters. That was a good lesson for me.

Gotta go now. Love you my sisters :hug: God bless you :hug:

Debra R
Nov 9th 2007, 12:33 PM
I was thinking on this verse....

Isaiah 26:3 You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You.

Giving our complete trust to God and holding Him foremost in our thoughts, giving Him reverence..... I just thought of another verse.....I like this in the NIV 2 Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Taking captive every thought, making every thought obedient to Christ, assures us of perfect peace that God Himself keeps us in.

Blessings dear sisters :kiss::hug:

beachbum53
Nov 9th 2007, 07:18 PM
I'm reading thru this thread and it's truely very inspiring to me. :)

I wish I had more time to think thru it and wasn't soooooo tired from work that I could post some thoughts. :sleeping:

God bless you all, & please continue to post verses & thoughts about them, I'm enjoying reading them. :hug:


On a 'side note' one verse (in particular) that stands out to me & helps me to have faith and be at peace 'in life' is Proverbs 3:5

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding."

It reminds me that I'm not solely in control of my life and I can release my stress and 'burden' unto Him and trust Him that it will all work out. ;)

Okay :OFFT:

great verse :hug:
I know, I can relate, [[ time and tired]] My neighbor who is my age is going to seminary; that would be so cool to learn and learn......have to better manage my time...

beachbum53
Nov 9th 2007, 08:30 PM
[quote=Debra R;1435700]I was thinking on this verse....

Isaiah 26:3 You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You.

Giving our complete trust to God and holding Him foremost in our thoughts, giving Him reverence..... I just thought of another verse.....I like this in the NIV 2 Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Taking captive every thought, making every thought obedient to Christ, assures us of perfect peace that God Himself keeps us in.

/quote]

Debra that is excellent and sooo true! I think I can manage to memorize this short Isaiah one! I will just say it over and over at work when I'm stressed. By 0730 I should have it down pat. Also your verse HopeFaithLove!! Thank you for your input here!
:lol: Yesterday I would have had it down in the first 5 minutes. :lol: Applied for new position but don't think I'll get it cause I'm off 'sick' too much. New doc told me I would be better leaving floor and doing 8 hrs also, more of 'get in a routine', sleep, eat, etc. Most days no lunch till 2 and Wednesday I got to eat when I got home at 8! :lol:


6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
This is the first verse I memorized after becoming a Christian.

About the study, I promise to get moving. I have a 'bad habit' of 'picking everything' apart 'detail by detail' be it study or house etc. I'll be 6 months on first chapter at that rate. :lol: I will just finish it up simply [[what I had started so we can move on.]] Try to tonight but definitely by tomorrow. DH going away so I think I'll try to give him my attention instead of sitting at computer this evening. :)

Psalm 119:50
50This is my comfort in my affliction,
That Your word has revived me.

Psalm 119:11
11Your word I have treasured in my heart,
That I may not sin against You.

I'm definitely going to be learning verses again!

Thank you Father for Your perfect timing for Debra and I to chat again about our life's after an absence of a few months. You showed me once again, when I was getting to a very low point that only You can fulfill the hope and happiness I was lacking in the last 2 months. You led me back with encouragement and hope and Your love in this precious child of Yours, who is doing your work, and who I thank you for. I thank You for all my sisters here that encourage and love one another because You are living in them.
In Jesus' name I pray,
Amen

:cry: happy tears now

:kiss:

Debra R
Nov 10th 2007, 02:42 AM
[quote=Debra R;1435700]I was thinking on this verse....

Isaiah 26:3 You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You.

Giving our complete trust to God and holding Him foremost in our thoughts, giving Him reverence..... I just thought of another verse.....I like this in the NIV 2 Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Taking captive every thought, making every thought obedient to Christ, assures us of perfect peace that God Himself keeps us in.

/quote]

Debra that is excellent and sooo true! I think I can manage to memorize this short Isaiah one! I will just say it over and over at work when I'm stressed. By 0730 I should have it down pat. Also your verse HopeFaithLove!! Thank you for your input here!


:hug:Oh sis, I had to repeat that verse in Isaiah over and over today :D.
But it worked! :)



:lol: Yesterday I would have had it down in the first 5 minutes. :lol: Applied for new position but don't think I'll get it cause I'm off 'sick' too much. New doc told me I would be better leaving floor and doing 8 hrs also, more of 'get in a routine', sleep, eat, etc. Most days no lunch till 2 and Wednesday I got to eat when I got home at 8! :lol:


6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
This is the first verse I memorized after becoming a Christian.

About the study, I promise to get moving. I have a 'bad habit' of 'picking everything' apart 'detail by detail' be it study or house etc. I'll be 6 months on first chapter at that rate. :lol: I will just finish it up simply [[what I had started so we can move on.]] Try to tonight but definitely by tomorrow. DH going away so I think I'll try to give him my attention instead of sitting at computer this evening. :)


:) Sometimes it's good to pick everything apart "detail by detail".





Psalm 119:50
50This is my comfort in my affliction,
That Your word has revived me.

Psalm 119:11
11Your word I have treasured in my heart,
That I may not sin against You.

I'm definitely going to be learning verses again!


:)Beautiful verses!




Thank you Father for Your perfect timing for Debra and I to chat again about our life's after an absence of a few months. You showed me once again, when I was getting to a very low point that only You can fulfill the hope and happiness I was lacking in the last 2 months. You led me back with encouragement and hope and Your love in this precious child of Yours, who is doing your work, and who I thank you for. I thank You for all my sisters here that encourage and love one another because You are living in them.
In Jesus' name I pray,
Amen

:cry: happy tears now

:kiss:

Amen and Amen! :kiss::hug:

HopeFaithLove
Nov 10th 2007, 03:44 AM
I was thinking on this verse....

Isaiah 26:3 You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You.

Giving our complete trust to God and holding Him foremost in our thoughts, giving Him reverence..... I just thought of another verse.....I like this in the NIV 2 Corinthians 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.


Ooooooo!! Good verses!! Funny,each day that goes by, I talk to God to make sure I'm making the right decisions......because I don't trust myself anymore. :lol:

HopeFaithLove
Nov 10th 2007, 03:52 AM
Thank you Father for Your perfect timing for Debra and I to chat again about our life's after an absence of a few months. You showed me once again, when I was getting to a very low point that only You can fulfill the hope and happiness I was lacking in the last 2 months. You led me back with encouragement and hope and Your love in this precious child of Yours, who is doing your work, and who I thank you for. I thank You for all my sisters here that encourage and love one another because You are living in them.
In Jesus' name I pray,
Amen

:cry: happy tears now


I have to say :amen:!! I love to be encouraged by God's word......I just wish I could encourage the people around me, by verses too. But, alot of people around me are not Christian. Oh well, that's prolly why I'm in their life, right now, anyway! :spin: :saint:

But it's nice to have you gals to share in God's word! ;)

beachbum53
Nov 10th 2007, 01:05 PM
Romans 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
Paul first explained who he was, and established his authority of his ministry; He was divinely chosen by God. God revealed to him that he had been set apart by God’s grace even from his mother’s womb.
Galatians 1:11-16 (NKJV)
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,

Acts 26:14-17 (NKJV)
14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’
15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,

Thinking that since God has called believers to have faith in Christ and to go tell of His good news, believers, are apostles in a more 'general way'. Paul was divinely called by God but believers are to be messengers of His news of saving grace also.

2 Corinthians 8:23 (NKJV)
23 If anyone inquires about Titus, he is my partner and fellow worker concerning you. Or if our brethren are inquired about, they are messengers of the churches, the glory of Christ.

Romans 1:2 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,

The writer of Hebrews also began with mention of the prophets
Hebrews 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

Paul wanted to emphasize that it wasn't his good news but God's. Paul probably understood their animosity because he was once shared their hatred of Christianity. Jesus didn't teach anything that was contrary to the OT

Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV)
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus came to do His father's will.

Romans1:3-4 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Psalm 89:3-4 (NKJV)
3 “I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My servant David:
4 ‘Your seed I will establish forever, And build up your throne to all generations.’ ” Selah

2 Samuel 7:12 (NKJV)
12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.

Acts 13:29-33 (NKJV)
29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb.
30 But God raised Him from the dead.
31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people.
32 And we declare to you glad tidings— that promise which was made to the fathers.
33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’
Romans1:5,6 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,
6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


2 Corinthians 4:15 (NKJV)
15 For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God.

When a person believes in Christ he is saved, but salvation's main focus is to give God the glory. To glorify His name! When we are called by Christ we are most importantly called to be obedient. God has many titles in the OT and NT; Lord is used more frequently . Believers are to be in submission to His lordship.
Matthew 28:20 (NKJV)
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


Matthew 7:22-27 (NKJV)
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

Whatever we do in His name must be done from faith, in His will and using the power of His Holy Spirit.


Romans 1:7 7to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

'called' here is referring to the doctrine of election. We know from His Word that He had already chosen us first.

Because we have been chosen and are saints [[holy ones of God]] we can call Him Father and experience His grace and peace.


ps
my notes I was making were confusing me with my 'time shortage', so just redid this instead...sorry...
have to get this house clean....:lol: today, have too much overtime next week...

The most valuable lesson revisited here for me is to rely on Him more so I can be more obedient and live as He called me to do.

beachbum53
Nov 11th 2007, 11:22 AM
Paul tells seven aspects of the good news of Jesus Christ

1] identifies himself as the preacher of the good news vs.1
2] tells of the promise vs.2
3] tell of the Person vs 3-4
4] the provision vs 5
5] the proclamation vs 5
6] the purpose vs 5
7]privileges of the good news vs 6-7

[[ above previously posted, erased what I didn't finish, only way I could edit/delete.] Oh my still see my old post

Two things I would like to share that I found yesterday

Charles Wesley wrote this hymn about the conscience

I want a principle within
Of watchful, godly fear,
A sensibility of sin,
A pain to feel it near.
Help me the first approach to feel
Of pride or wrong desire;
To catch the wandering of my will,
And quench the kindling fire.
From Thee that I no more may stray,
No more Thy goodness grieve,
Grant me the filial awe, I pray,
The tender conscience give.
Quick as the apple of an eye,
O God, my conscience make!
Awake my soul when sin is nigh,
And keep it still awake.

Think you picked a good Book Debra :)

In assessing the importance of the book of Romans, John Calvin said, “When any one gains a knowledge of this Epistle, he has an entrance opened to him to all the most hidden treasures of Scripture” (Commentaries on the Epistle of Paul to the Romans [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979], p# 1). Martin Luther said that Romans is “the chief part of the New Testament and the very purest gospel” (Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans [Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1954], p. xiii). Frederick God-et, the noted Swiss Bible commentator, called Romans “the cathedral of Christian faith” (Commentary on St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans [New York: Funk & Wagnalls, 1883], p. 1).#


Psalm 51:10
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. :pray:

beachbum53
Nov 11th 2007, 07:29 PM
Something interesting that came up a while ago in a study I was doing was how in verse 1 Paul referred to himself as a 'slave' of Jesus Christ (New Living Translation). Usually, slave has such negative connotations and just the word makes a lot of people want to rebel so for Paul to use it in such a positive way of being truly committed makes me really wonder if I am a 'slave' to God's will in my life. Especially when I consider that God has placed me in this job for a reason and has commanded me to obey those who have authority over me, so when I do my best at work, I am working for Jesus not necessarily my boss (though they benefit).

Hmmmm, I can think of a lot of times I have been slaving to and for worldly things and ignoring God. Something to do some reflecting on, anyway.

Doulos, the common NT word for servant. Although in Gr. culture it is most often referred to the involuntary, permanent service of a slave, Paul elevates this word by using it in its Heb. sense to describe a servant who willingly commits himself to serve a master he loves and respects (Ex. 21:5, 6; Gal. 1:10; Titus 1:1; cf. Gen. 26:24; Num. 12:7; 2 Sam. 7:5; Is. 53:11)

[[[[ I am working for Jesus not necessarily my boss (though they benefit).]]]]]
Very true Setfree :hug:

beachbum53
Nov 11th 2007, 07:39 PM
just breaking this down some........


8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.
9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,
10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.
11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;
12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine.

beachbum53
Nov 11th 2007, 09:04 PM
If you compared your life-style before and after you became a Christian, what changes did Christ make in your life.



1]] He allowed me to forgive others, family
2]] took a while but forgave myself for things I had done in past

3]] gave me hope for the future [[ I used to think "if this is all I get to exp. in my life, how 'pathetic' is that. If I never go anywhere really exciting now, or have 'things' that's ok. There is another life!

4]] Material things mean much less now

5]] Look at 'bad' people differently, pray when I encounter them [[at work mostly, get lot of inmates as pts.]] that they will be saved and change. Think of what God forgave me of.

6]]Help others more than I did, not as selfish with my time and resources.

7]] He 'constrained me' when I sometimes had thoughts of going to another to feel loved when DH didn't.

8]] I never could drink for a number of years, due to a medical condition, but I sure would have if I could have. I sure did my share when I could. Just wanted something to take pain away.

9]] made me much more aware of sin, my own and the 'world's'

I know there's a lot more.....Thank you Jesus!

Debra R
Nov 13th 2007, 02:31 AM
Paul tells seven aspects of the good news of Jesus Christ

1] identifies himself as the preacher of the good news vs.1
2] tells of the promise vs.2
3] tell of the Person vs 3-4
4] the provision vs 5
5] the proclamation vs 5
6] the purpose vs 5
7]privileges of the good news vs 6-7

[[ above previously posted, erased what I didn't finish, only way I could edit/delete.] Oh my still see my old post

Two things I would like to share that I found yesterday

Charles Wesley wrote this hymn about the conscience

I want a principle within
Of watchful, godly fear,
A sensibility of sin,
A pain to feel it near.
Help me the first approach to feel
Of pride or wrong desire;
To catch the wandering of my will,
And quench the kindling fire.
From Thee that I no more may stray,
No more Thy goodness grieve,
Grant me the filial awe, I pray,
The tender conscience give.
Quick as the apple of an eye,
O God, my conscience make!
Awake my soul when sin is nigh,
And keep it still awake.

Think you picked a good Book Debra :)

In assessing the importance of the book of Romans, John Calvin said, “When any one gains a knowledge of this Epistle, he has an entrance opened to him to all the most hidden treasures of Scripture” (Commentaries on the Epistle of Paul to the Romans [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979], p# 1). Martin Luther said that Romans is “the chief part of the New Testament and the very purest gospel” (Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans [Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1954], p. xiii). Frederick God-et, the noted Swiss Bible commentator, called Romans “the cathedral of Christian faith” (Commentary on St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans [New York: Funk & Wagnalls, 1883], p. 1).#


Psalm 51:10
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. :pray:

That is a beautiful hymn :hug:. I pray every day that I don't grieve our Lord. I pray that I be used by Him. There are some things at work that really distress my spirit. I see that they are wrong and I have a really hard time dealing with it. More and more I think I should get another job.

I am thankful for our study and for you sis :hug: and all our wonderful sisters here. :hug: God is good.


Think you picked a good Book Debra :)

It was you :). You sent me that verse

Romans 15


13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.


When I read that verse I knew Romans was it. :D

Love you sis :hug:

beachbum53
Nov 13th 2007, 03:00 AM
That is a beautiful hymn :hug:. I pray every day that I don't grieve our Lord. I pray that I be used by Him. There are some things at work that really distress my spirit. I see that they are wrong and I have a really hard time dealing with it. More and more I think I should get another job.

I know I do, been on same floor for eleven yrs, only few of us still there; love the 'floor' [[type]] trauma etc, but I can't do it anymore being so short and no team work except with a very select few. :(

I am thankful for our study and for you sis :hug: and all our wonderful sisters here. :hug: God is good.

Yes He is, I'm so blessed to have found a friendship here with you and others. :hug:

It was you :). You sent me that verse

That was 'funny' we both had same thing on our mind that night; truly believe it was His will.

When I read that verse I knew Romans was it. :D

too tired here also, try this again tomorrow.

love you :hug: :hug: :kiss:....message too short....:rolleyes:........................oops see what I did....too tired to change it...:lol:

Love you sis :hug:

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................

beachbum53
Nov 13th 2007, 03:33 AM
Paul worshiped God before, as a 'perfect Jew', before being filled with God's spirit. He strictly followed every tradition he had been taught.

Phill. 3:4-7
4although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
5circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
7But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ

1Corinthians 4:1-5

1Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy.
3But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself.
4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.
5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

Paul no longer cared what his peers thought or was motivated to follow God by his own self interests or traditions.
He only cared what God thought, only wanted to glorify God. He used God's power to proclaim the gospel not his own.



Ephesians 6:6
6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.

Too tired to comment now but many people today are like Paul was....filling the churches but not worshiping Him in spirit and truth.

Please add comments and thoughts....

beachbum53
Nov 14th 2007, 11:34 AM
That is a beautiful hymn :hug:. I pray every day that I don't grieve our Lord. I pray that I be used by Him.

Wonderful prayer advice, testimony, Debra, God bless you!

Debra R
Nov 16th 2007, 02:32 AM
Paul worshiped God before, as a 'perfect Jew', before being filled with God's spirit. He strictly followed every tradition he had been taught.

Phill. 3:4-7
4although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
5circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
7But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ

1Corinthians 4:1-5

1Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy.
3But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself.
4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.
5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

Paul no longer cared what his peers thought or was motivated to follow God by his own self interests or traditions.
He only cared what God thought, only wanted to glorify God. He used God's power to proclaim the gospel not his own.



Ephesians 6:6
6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.

Too tired to comment now but many people today are like Paul was....filling the churches but not worshiping Him in spirit and truth.

Please add comments and thoughts....

I was thinking on this and of the many who are like Paul was, in outward appearance being religious, but in the matter of the heart are far from it. Because it is of the heart. I think of Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Their hearts have not been touched. They have not had an encounter with Jesus.

To be used of God we have to have the power of God and that comes by the Holy Spirit dwelling within us.

Love you sis! :kiss::hug:

Hope you had a good day today. :)
Mine was much better! Praise God for He is good! :pp

Debra R
Nov 16th 2007, 02:59 AM
I thought I would post us a few more verses to think about. :)

Romans 1:13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles. 14 I am a debtor both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise. 15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.

beachbum53
Nov 20th 2007, 01:28 AM
just breaking this down some........


8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.

Notice Paul said my God instead of just God; He was Paul's savior and he loved Him. Thanking the believers for their faith that God had given them, and was thankful they were spreading the good news of the gospel all around the world. Another thing I see is that he is thanking God through his mediator Jesus.
Reading some sources for Romans, the people in the church in Rome were 'famous' for their genuine faith [[persevering, trusting faith]] that bring spiritual growth and integrity.
Paul was thankful for what God was doing in other believer's life's; not just his own.
9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,

Paul service to God was from a pure, thankful heart, he had nothing but a total devotion, commitment, to do what God called him to do.
Phil. 3:1
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, The New King James Version. 1982 (Php 3:2-3). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

1 Corinthians 4:5

5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts The New King James Version. 1982 (1 Co 4:4-5). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

[[[is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,]]]
Paul knew God [knew] that Paul's motives' and heart were sincere.

10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.

'Awesome' prayer example!
Ephesians 3:14

14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. The New King James Version. 1982 (Eph 3:14-19). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;

Paul was so eager to be used by God
books I have read discuss that 'people' go to church today looking to make themselves feel better, [[I have too]] but Paul only wanted to minister to others and do what God's will was for him. Also people doing His work can't be looking for appreciation and thanks as their motive to serving others.

12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine.

Paul knew the importance of needing 'Christian fellowship'

Running low on time but the
'theme's' love, be humble, pray, encourage one another, rejoice in each others spiritual growth.......and much more on character....
especially love, started to see how often that was in the NT only and...wow...try to love one another as Paul loved other believer's. :yes:



Sorry Deb, I'll catch up to you! Getting sidetracked with reading cross reference things!
Missing others here....:(

Debra R
Nov 20th 2007, 03:57 AM
just breaking this down some........


8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.

Notice Paul said my God instead of just God; He was Paul's savior and he loved Him. Thanking the believers for their faith that God had given them, and was thankful they were spreading the good news of the gospel all around the world. Another thing I see is that he is thanking God through his mediator Jesus.
Reading some sources for Romans, the people in the church in Rome were 'famous' for their genuine faith [[persevering, trusting faith]] that bring spiritual growth and integrity.
Paul was thankful for what God was doing in other believer's life's; not just his own.
9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,

Paul service to God was from a pure, thankful heart, he had nothing but a total devotion, commitment, to do what God called him to do.
Phil. 3:1
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, The New King James Version. 1982 (Php 3:2-3). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

1 Corinthians 4:5

5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts The New King James Version. 1982 (1 Co 4:4-5). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

[[[is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,]]]
Paul knew God [knew] that Paul's motives' and heart were sincere.

10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.

'Awesome' prayer example!
Ephesians 3:14

14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. The New King James Version. 1982 (Eph 3:14-19). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;

Paul was so eager to be used by God
books I have read discuss that 'people' go to church today looking to make themselves feel better, [[I have too]] but Paul only wanted to minister to others and do what God's will was for him. Also people doing His work can't be looking for appreciation and thanks as their motive to serving others.

12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other's faith, both yours and mine.

Paul knew the importance of needing 'Christian fellowship'

Running low on time but the
'theme's' love, be humble, pray, encourage one another, rejoice in each others spiritual growth.......and much more on character....
especially love, started to see how often that was in the NT only and...wow...try to love one another as Paul loved other believer's. :yes:



Sorry Deb, I'll catch up to you! Getting sidetracked with reading cross reference things!
Missing others here....:(

That is great Laura! :hug: And I love that prayer in Ephesians!
Pray and encourage one another! Yes! That is so important! I receive joy in seeing others spiritual growth, seeing them growing closer to God. That makes me happy. :)

We had a wonderful service Sunday. During testimonies everyone was sharing how God was working in their lives and sharing scripture that God gave them and it was so encouraging.

We all have our down times, difficult things happening in our lives, it is comforting to have our brothers and sisters to lift us up. I think of the apostle Peter when Jesus told him he would deny Him but when he returned to Him Jesus told him to strengthen his brethren.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

Jesus emphasized for Peter to strengthen his brethren and that is what we are supposed to do too. There are times I don't know how I would make it without my family in Christ.

Take as much time as you want sis with all the cross references you want :). sometimes I need slowing down. :D

Love you! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Nov 28th 2007, 12:45 AM
I thought I would post us a few more verses to think about. :)

Romans 1:13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles. 14 I am a debtor both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise. 15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.



:) Thinking on verse 13... we sure can relate to that....how many times have we had plans and were hindered, our adversary blocking our way. But if God has a plan, nothing can stop it.

Job 42:2 "I know that You can do all things,
And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.

Verse 16 ......thinking on the gospel of Christ.....Just what is the gospel of Christ? I thought we should review :).......

(NASB) 1 Corinthians 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,

2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,


That is the gospel.... the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

...for it is the power of God to salvation .......

The gospel.....the power of God......

This is some of my favorite scripture in Acts.....

Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

25 "For David says of Him,
'I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE;
FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
26 'THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED;
MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
27 BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES,
NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
28 'YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE;
YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.'

29 "Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30 "And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE,
31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.

32 "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.

33 "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.

34 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:
'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
35UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET."'

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ--this Jesus whom you crucified."

37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"

38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!"

41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.


They received his word.....they heard and believed.......

Romans 10 says.....verse 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Paul was not ashamed of the gospel, he was ready to preach, to Greeks and barbarians, wise and unwise..... for how will they believe if they have not heard?

And so should we be.....always ready to speak the gospel.

There is much more to these verses but this is what came to mind.
So girls please add more. I'm going to rest now. :D

Blessings :hug:

beachbum53
Jan 6th 2008, 03:33 PM
Excellent post Deb,

I know you know :lol: that we haven't abandoned this study, just writing for others who I hope join in. Now that the holidays are over, hopefully we can get back with the study.

I at least wanted to do short post before we can't find this. :lol: I was waiting till I got all my thoughts gathered on this one, but it was taking me too long.

I've read and reread verses 18-32... 100 times but finding it hard to put my thoughts in words about some issues when I dig deeper.

I recall certain verses in other books that say God uses Satan in some instances; in the end it was for their own good. Is God turning them over to Satan here? I believe so. I will have to try and find them. Then there are the verses where God gave up on His people, through the bible.

Power
“It is the power of God” [ Romans1:16]
The word dynamite comes from the greek word power; God's power can change the hardest of hearts with no human explanation.

Pretty cool:pp

beachbum53
Jan 10th 2008, 01:05 AM
Just a short post here while I eat alone ;)

We know that satan can't act unless God permits him to

1John 4
1 (http://bible.cc/1_john/4-1.htm) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 (http://bible.cc/1_john/4-2.htm) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 (http://bible.cc/1_john/4-3.htm) and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. 4 (http://bible.cc/1_john/4-4.htm) You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.


10 (http://bible.cc/job/42-10.htm) The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold. 11 (http://bible.cc/job/42-11.htm) Then all his brothers and all his sisters and all who had known him before came to him, and they ate bread with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversities that the LORD had brought on him
I never noticed the significance of above verse...



1Samuel 18:10-11
10 (http://bible.cc/1_samuel/18-10.htm) Now it came about on the next day that an evil spirit from God came mightily upon Saul, and he raved in the midst of the house, while David was playing the harp with his hand, as usual; and a spear was in Saul’s hand. 11 (http://bible.cc/1_samuel/18-11.htm) Saul hurled the spear for he thought, “I will pin David to the wall.” But David escaped from his presence twice.

God allowed this evil spirit to torment Saul


1Corinthians 5:3-5
3 (http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-3.htm) For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 (http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-4.htm) In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 (http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-5.htm) I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Satan didn't directly attack him but he was thrown out of the church. Paul excommunicated him. So the man was left to live 'in the world' [[satan's realm]] surrounded by sin instead of being around Christians. When this happens hopefully repentence will begin instead of becoming complatent in his sin without repercussions. God will let us reap the consequenses of sin. Like a parent He doesn't punish from 'being mean' but in the hopes that disicpline will teach us a lesson and we will return to Him remorseful and agree He is correct.

Luke22

31 (http://bible.cc/luke/22-31.htm) “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32 (http://bible.cc/luke/22-32.htm) but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

strengthen's His servants [[above and below verse's]]


2 Corinthians 12:7

7 (http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/12-7.htm) Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!

1Timothy 1
18 (http://bible.cc/1_timothy/1-18.htm) This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19 (http://bible.cc/1_timothy/1-19.htm) keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20 (http://bible.cc/1_timothy/1-20.htm) Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

God used satan for judgement


Martin Luther was right on target when he described the devil as God’s tool, a hoe used to care for his garden.
Lucado, M. (2001). America looks up

Finish later
God bless

beachbum53
Jan 10th 2008, 02:52 AM
Sin dominates the emotions and the affections.

John3

19 (http://bible.cc/john/3-19.htm) “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

Sin dominates the will.

Jeremiah 44:15–17

15 (http://bible.cc/jeremiah/44-15.htm) Then all the men who were aware that their wives were burning sacrifices to other gods, along with all the women who were standing by, as a large assembly, including all the people who were living in Pathros in the land of Egypt, responded to Jeremiah, saying, 16 (http://bible.cc/jeremiah/44-16.htm) “As for the message that you have spoken to us in the name of the LORD, we are not going to listen to you! 17 (http://bible.cc/jeremiah/44-17.htm) “But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded from our mouths, by burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, just as we ourselves, our forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food and were well off and saw no misfortune.

Sin brings men under the control of Satan.

1 (http://bible.cc/ephesians/2-1.htm) And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 (http://bible.cc/ephesians/2-2.htm) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

Ephesians2:3

3 (http://bible.cc/ephesians/2-3.htm) Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

sin subjects men to misery

Isaiah 48

22 (http://bible.cc/isaiah/48-22.htm) “There is no peace for the wicked,” says the LORD.

Above from book by John MacArthur...Alone with God

This 21st century is what is described in Paul's letter. How much more will society accept each year as/when 'men' seek to 'make another perversion ok'. Even some churches' as you know today are accepting what once was evil in their sight. Peoples' lust is not only accepted but encouraged today.
Paul isn't just talking about sexual sin, lying, gossip, disrespect, envy,being prideful, arrogant... and more is included here.

I know I used to think I was pretty good, always nice, compassionate, helped people, etc...well I wasn't righteous in His sight at all! Paul tells us they are worthy of death. There are still sins' I struggle with that I know now aren't pleasing to God esp. when I get too busy and don't keep prayer and reading His word a priority.


Ok Deb, your turn...:lol: I know you're exhausted this week and I have prayed!
I went out today to do grocery's and am exhausted by that :eek: My bags are still on floor.:eek: In 2 days I need to be ready to 'run my 12 hr marathon job' :lol: Thanking God that this episode was less severe than my usual though!

love ya sis

come join us..pleassss :D

Kingsdaughter
Jan 10th 2008, 05:15 AM
Hi Deb and beachbum53! I would love to join in on this study of the book of Romans. So what chapter are we on?...I'm sorry, I wish I had time to read the entire thread and study the previous chapters. I hope it's okay if I just join in where you guys are at now?

beachbum53
Jan 10th 2008, 12:46 PM
Oh my Yes! :hug: Anybody is welcome to 'chip' in anytime! We are just finishing the last verses of chapter 1. :eek:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 10th 2008, 06:27 PM
Okay, that sounds great. I will post the last verse here so that I can add to the study today.

Romans 1:32 NKJV
who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

This makes me think of living according to the "world" and how Jesus tells us that if the world hates you remember that it hated Him first and if we were apart of the "world" then they would love us as it's own, but because we are not "of the world" they hate us.

John15:19

If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Also, many of the friends that I had before I got saved APPROVED of me living a life in sin, but when I came to know the Lord as Savior, my life changed for the better and they all of a sudden didn't want to be friends anymore.

I thought I would add verses 24-31, so that we can get the idea of the passage leading up to verse 32.


Romans 1:24-31

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1&version=50#fen-NKJV-27954c)] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1&version=50#fen-NKJV-27956d)] unmerciful

beachbum53
Jan 10th 2008, 10:17 PM
kingsdaughter [[what a cool name]]

I'm so very happy you have joined in here! :pp
I hear you about some of your former friends' :(, horray for you for sticking with Jesus! :hug:

BTW I clicked on your profile to see if I could find your name. Girl you're gorgeous! [[along with baby!]]

BTW mine is laura

Kingsdaughter
Jan 10th 2008, 10:36 PM
Awww,thank you Laura:hug: It is very nice to meet you too! I have a question about Romans 1:21

because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

It says that they knew God...does that mean they were saved at one time or does that mean they knew Him because of His creation..meaning ; sun, moon, stars, etc. :hmm:

Trina

VisionOfYou
Jan 10th 2008, 10:56 PM
Hi ladies! I hope it's ok if I jump in here, too. :)

kingsdaughter, that verse makes me think of A.W. Tozer's book Knowledge of the Holy. He talks about how we can have wrong ideas about God, and how that is actually idolatry. (Of couse, we can't fully understand God - just speaking of the extent to which He has revealed Himself). This was brought home to me in a very sad way with a college friend of mine recently. Long story short, he decided that God was ok with homosexuality. Not because of what God says in His word, but because of what man says and because of what he wanted to believe. So the god he has created is not our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore an idol. I hope that makes sense - Tozer's a much better writer than I am! ;) So one of the things I get from that verse is that people can believe in God per se, but believe things about Him that are not true, therefore failing to give Him glory and falling into sin.

Kingsdaughter
Jan 10th 2008, 11:07 PM
Hi ladies! I hope it's ok if I jump in here, too. :)

kingsdaughter, that verse makes me think of A.W. Tozer's book Knowledge of the Holy. He talks about how we can have wrong ideas about God, and how that is actually idolatry. (Of couse, we can't fully understand God - just speaking of the extent to which He has revealed Himself). This was brought home to me in a very sad way with a college friend of mine recently. Long story short, he decided that God was ok with homosexuality. Not because of what God says in His word, but because of what man says and because of what he wanted to believe. So the god he has created is not our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore an idol. I hope that makes sense - Tozer's a much better writer than I am! ;) So one of the things I get from that verse is that people can believe in God per se, but believe things about Him that are not true, therefore failing to give Him glory and falling into sin.

That makes perfect sense:pp Thank you:hug:

beachbum53
Jan 11th 2008, 01:01 AM
Trina,

She gave you an excellent answer there! There were wiser one's who did have a higher knowledge of God but even they still refused to worship Him correctly. They made images and worshiped false gods' instead. Even the unwise had a general revelation of God through nature,and their conscience, the instinct of what is right and wrong.

Vision Of truth...hope you'll hang out with us; I'm sure you can teach us some things also!

please pray for debrar, :pray: she's tired out and missing little Nathan :cry:

Debra R
Jan 11th 2008, 04:51 AM
Hi Trina! I am thrilled you joined us! :hug:

Hi VisionOfYou! Thrilled for you to join us to! :hug:

I am praising God! :pp

Debra R
Jan 11th 2008, 04:57 AM
Trina,

She gave you an excellent answer there! There were wiser one's who did have a higher knowledge of God but even they still refused to worship Him correctly. They made images and worshiped false gods' instead. Even the unwise had a general revelation of God through nature,and their conscience, the instinct of what is right and wrong.

Vision Of truth...hope you'll hang out with us; I'm sure you can teach us some things also!

please pray for debrar, :pray: she's tired out and missing little Nathan :cry:


Oh sweet Laura! :hug: Thank you! I am beginning to feel better.

I should be sleeping :D but I was trying to upload pics for the picture thread in anything goes. Some we took on Christmas.

I think I may feel a little better cause tomorrow is friday. :pp

I know your prayers for me give me strength too. Our God is good!

I will get into our study hopefully tomorrow.

Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

VisionOfYou
Jan 11th 2008, 03:23 PM
Laura and Debra, thank you so much for the welcome! :hug: Since you all seem to be going by first names in this thread, mine is Rachel. :)

Kingsdaughter
Jan 11th 2008, 06:15 PM
Thank you Deb, Laura, and Rachel..it is so nice to fellowship with you gals:hug::kiss:

Ninna
Jan 11th 2008, 06:32 PM
Time for me to join in also, if that is ok. I need a study and I'm glad to see you are just finishing up chapter 1 - reminds me of when we did the study of John.:D

Kingsdaughter
Jan 11th 2008, 06:36 PM
Time for me to join in also, if that is ok. I need a study and I'm glad to see you are just finishing up chapter 1 - reminds me of when we did the study of John.:D

Welcome sister, so glad you could join us:hug:

beachbum53
Jan 11th 2008, 07:38 PM
Time for me to join in also, if that is ok. I need a study and I'm glad to see you are just finishing up chapter 1 - reminds me of when we did the study of John.:D


I almost wrote just that to Trina when she was asking where we were! :lol:

Oh Brenda~~~ so glad you are going to join us! :pp

Debra R
Jan 11th 2008, 10:42 PM
Time for me to join in also, if that is ok. I need a study and I'm glad to see you are just finishing up chapter 1 - reminds me of when we did the study of John.:D

:ppThat's great sis! :hug:

Oh my gosh! The book of John took us about three years or four? :D
I think we started it around the time Nathan was diagnosed with cancer didn't we? It was some where around that time. It was good though and a lot of verses come to memory when I need them. :)

I have been thinking about the Ephesians study we didn't finish, I think we were on chapter 4. I though of digging it up so we could finish that too if we can handle it, since it only has 2 more chapters.... :)

This Romans study is going to be good too, we haven't even got to the best parts yet. :)

Love you sis! :kiss::hug:

Going to read what Laura posted now.....:)

Ninna
Jan 12th 2008, 12:08 AM
Yep, John took us three years, but I learned so much.:)

I, too, would like to finish Ephesians when you are ready. Now, I am ready to get into this one....are we at the end of chapter 1?

beachbum53
Jan 12th 2008, 01:49 AM
Yep Brenda, at the end of chapter one.

We decided to do this study to learn about more of His peace He offers us so we can better cope at work and just life.~~ 'be a better witness for Him at work also for me.~~ Know Deb does better there than I do. Most of my co-workers knew I'm a Christian.
A little story~~Over Christmas the census was down and all of a sudden I started getting friend requests from the 7p-7a shift for myspace~~[[ they had time I guess to play around on computer]] So I think everyone knows now, which is fine, I am proud to be one of His, but I sure would like to be glorifying His name in all circumstance's.

2Timothy 2:15

15 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/2-15.htm) Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth

~~ My desire is to learn more and live in His Spirit He gave me no matter what the circumstances. I have the most trouble doing that at work. I'm not exaggerating when I say it is almost always total chaos with the nurses and secretary asking/telling us techs to do 7 things at once and all the lights ringing too. :lol: ~~~A lot of times not so politely either.~~

Colossians 3:16


16 (http://bible.cc/colossians/3-16.htm) Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God



So I know so far talking about God's wrath, sin, etc. might not seem like lessons concerning peace. ~~But wow what a book~~it will teach us so much~~
so much here about the doctrine's of Christianity~~ some difficult verses here~~

~~To sum it up~~

2 Peter 1

2 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/1-2.htm) Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;

What better way to learn how to experience God's peace than to grow in the knowledge of our God and His son Jesus Christ!


2Timothy2:15


love you sisters :hug: :kiss:


~~if ya all have a minute, quick prayer that I might have the strength to do work tomorrow, still sooo tired, been home since Christmas~~ thanks so much~~

beachbum53
Jan 12th 2008, 01:59 AM
Oh sweet Laura! :hug: Thank you! I am beginning to feel better.

I should be sleeping :D but I was trying to upload pics for the picture thread in anything goes. Some we took on Christmas.

I think I may feel a little better cause tomorrow is friday. :pp

I know your prayers for me give me strength too. Our God is good!

I will get into our study hopefully tomorrow.

Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

Please don't think cause I said 'carry on Deb' that I meant now! :hug: You post when you can; I'm glad you are off if only for a short 2 days. You rest up sis. :kiss:

Debra R
Jan 12th 2008, 02:29 AM
:hug: Excellent posts Laura!
I had been ready to dig into our study then had to run some errands and get some things done and then watched Matthew a few hours and getting phone calls and still trying for hours it seems to do our study. Whew!

I finally got your posts read ......I just had a few thoughts.....

where you posted Luke 22:31.....

Thinking on Jesus praying for Simon Peter that his faith would not fail. He has also prayed for us ...John 17 the prayer of Jesus.........That is awesome that Jesus has prayed for us...there have been times when I felt my faith tested to the limit.....hanging on by a thread......then my Savior strengthens me...encourages me...and lifts me up.

Sin subjects men to misery
Indeed it does. What misery there is in living in sin and separated from God. I don't even want to think of those days.

Reading your posts Laura made me think of all kinds of verses that go along with them but that would take hours. :)


Great job sis! Love you! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Jan 12th 2008, 02:32 AM
Okay, that sounds great. I will post the last verse here so that I can add to the study today.

Romans 1:32 NKJV
who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

This makes me think of living according to the "world" and how Jesus tells us that if the world hates you remember that it hated Him first and if we were apart of the "world" then they would love us as it's own, but because we are not "of the world" they hate us.

John15:19

If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Also, many of the friends that I had before I got saved APPROVED of me living a life in sin, but when I came to know the Lord as Savior, my life changed for the better and they all of a sudden didn't want to be friends anymore.

I thought I would add verses 24-31, so that we can get the idea of the passage leading up to verse 32.


Romans 1:24-31

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1&version=50#fen-NKJV-27954c)] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1&version=50#fen-NKJV-27956d)] unmerciful

Thank you Trina! :hug:

Thinking of our former friends they can't understand because they are still in darkness :(.

And I echo what Laura said....hooray for you sticking with Jesus! :pp

And I am so glad you are part of the family of God. Love you sis! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Jan 12th 2008, 02:42 AM
Hi ladies! I hope it's ok if I jump in here, too. :)

kingsdaughter, that verse makes me think of A.W. Tozer's book Knowledge of the Holy. He talks about how we can have wrong ideas about God, and how that is actually idolatry. (Of couse, we can't fully understand God - just speaking of the extent to which He has revealed Himself). This was brought home to me in a very sad way with a college friend of mine recently. Long story short, he decided that God was ok with homosexuality. Not because of what God says in His word, but because of what man says and because of what he wanted to believe. So the god he has created is not our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore an idol. I hope that makes sense - Tozer's a much better writer than I am! ;) So one of the things I get from that verse is that people can believe in God per se, but believe things about Him that are not true, therefore failing to give Him glory and falling into sin.

Hi Rachel! :hug: I have read some of A.W.Tozer's books! I like him!

It is so sad about your friend. He has been blinded. Continue to pray for him that God may shine His glorious light upon him and release him from darkness.

God bless you sis! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Jan 12th 2008, 02:59 AM
Excellent post Deb,

I know you know :lol: that we haven't abandoned this study, just writing for others who I hope join in. Now that the holidays are over, hopefully we can get back with the study.

I at least wanted to do short post before we can't find this. :lol: I was waiting till I got all my thoughts gathered on this one, but it was taking me too long.

I've read and reread verses 18-32... 100 times but finding it hard to put my thoughts in words about some issues when I dig deeper.

I recall certain verses in other books that say God uses Satan in some instances; in the end it was for their own good. Is God turning them over to Satan here? I believe so. I will have to try and find them. Then there are the verses where God gave up on His people, through the bible.

Power
“It is the power of God” [ Romans1:16]
The word dynamite comes from the greek word power; God's power can change the hardest of hearts with no human explanation.

Pretty cool:pp

I had to come back to this post because it made me think of Joseph....

Genesis 50:19 Joseph said to them, “Do not be afraid, for am I in the place of God? 20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.


Josephs's brothers intended evil against him but God brought about good things from it. Which it also reminds me of....Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.


I like this because I know that no matter how bad things may get, our God can and does bring about good things.

I am thankful. :hug:

Debra R
Jan 12th 2008, 03:18 AM
Yep Brenda, at the end of chapter one.

We decided to do this study to learn about more of His peace He offers us so we can better cope at work and just life.~~ 'be a better witness for Him at work also for me.~~ Know Deb does better there than I do. Most of my co-workers knew I'm a Christian.
A little story~~Over Christmas the census was down and all of a sudden I started getting friend requests from the 7p-7a shift for myspace~~[[ they had time I guess to play around on computer]] So I think everyone knows now, which is fine, I am proud to be one of His, but I sure would like to be glorifying His name in all circumstance's.

2Timothy 2:15

15 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/2-15.htm) Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth

~~ My desire is to learn more and live in His Spirit He gave me no matter what the circumstances. I have the most trouble doing that at work. I'm not exaggerating when I say it is almost always total chaos with the nurses and secretary asking/telling us techs to do 7 things at once and all the lights ringing too. :lol: ~~~A lot of times not so politely either.~~

Colossians 3:16


16 (http://bible.cc/colossians/3-16.htm) Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God



So I know so far talking about God's wrath, sin, etc. might not seem like lessons concerning peace. ~~But wow what a book~~it will teach us so much~~
so much here about the doctrine's of Christianity~~ some difficult verses here~~

~~To sum it up~~

2 Peter 1

2 (http://bible.cc/2_peter/1-2.htm) Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;

What better way to learn how to experience God's peace than to grow in the knowledge of our God and His son Jesus Christ!


2Timothy2:15


love you sisters :hug: :kiss:


~~if ya all have a minute, quick prayer that I might have the strength to do work tomorrow, still sooo tired, been home since Christmas~~ thanks so much~~

Oh sis, I know I could not do your job! Total chaos would drive me crazy!
I have been doing much better at work. Things or people are not upsetting me like they were. And one thing in my morning prayer, I have to pray before I start my day..the most important thing is I'm assured that our God is with me....I have been praying that His peace rest upon me...so when someone is mean or hateful it goes right over my head :D doesn't bother me, and if it does its only for a few seconds...I can still be nice..and not want to bop them on the head. :D

I am just learning more to place each day in His hands...and whatever comes my way I know that He and I can handle it.

I am praying for you right now........

Love you sis! :kiss::hug:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 12th 2008, 05:00 AM
Greetings sisters:hug: I love this thread and I know how busy we all are with work and family. I am a stay-at-home mom of three( 3yr old, 20 month old and 6 month old). Just wanted to pop in to say hi and that reading the scripture verses in this thread and how ya'll apply them to your lives is awesome!

Praying for you Laura that the Lord will renew your strength and in turn you will glorify Him for His faithfulness:pp:hug:

Praying for you Deb, that He will continue to fill you with peace and comfort during those times of sorrow:kiss::hug:

Love you all,
Trina

Debra R
Jan 12th 2008, 04:57 PM
Greetings sisters:hug: I love this thread and I know how busy we all are with work and family. I am a stay-at-home mom of three( 3yr old, 20 month old and 6 month old). Just wanted to pop in to say hi and that reading the scripture verses in this thread and how ya'll apply them to your lives is awesome!

Praying for you Laura that the Lord will renew your strength and in turn you will glorify Him for His faithfulness:pp:hug:

Praying for you Deb, that He will continue to fill you with peace and comfort during those times of sorrow:kiss::hug:

Love you all,
Trina

Thank you Trina :kiss::hug:

beachbum53
Jan 12th 2008, 09:21 PM
Wow Trina you're sure a busy little mommy~~how dear to have three little ones~~ :hug: Thank you all for the prayers ~~ I woke up feeling better than I ever expected to at 4:30. When I walked out to the kitchen and said :hmm: I don't feel too bad~~I thanked God and you all for the prayers! I made it through, had doctor note to only work 8 hrs, thank goodness.

beachbum53
Jan 13th 2008, 11:37 PM
~~Thought I would post next verses~~

Please feel free to add to chapter one also if you want

NASB Romans 2:1-11

1 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-1.htm) Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-2.htm) And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-3.htm) But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-4.htm) Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-5.htm) But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-6.htm) who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-7.htm) to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-8.htm) but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-9.htm) There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-10.htm) but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-11.htm) For there is no partiality with God.

Kingsdaughter
Jan 14th 2008, 03:07 AM
In Romans 2:1, the verse says for us not to judge because we practice the same things. Now, if I judge a believer who gets drunk and I myself don't drink, does that mean that I can judge? because I don't drink? Or does that verse mean that I should not judge the drunk because I'm guilty of other sins, such as bitterness or unforgiveness or whatever that sin might be.

beachbum53
Jan 14th 2008, 03:50 AM
In Romans 2:1, the verse says for us not to judge because we practice the same things. Now, if I judge a believer who gets drunk and I myself don't drink, does that mean that I can judge? because I don't drink? Or does that verse mean that I should not judge the drunk because I'm guilty of other sins, such as bitterness or unforgiveness or whatever that sin might be.

Hi Trina, I should probably write tomorrow, can't keep my eyes open ;)

Just a quick note for now, sorry,~~we can't judge ourselves in our 'human mind' the way God's righteousness see's our sins' is one reason I think. Also we might think we do 'it' all right but there's always some things we are neglecting to do that he commands us to do.
Sorry soo tired.......

Kingsdaughter
Jan 14th 2008, 04:00 AM
Hi Trina, I should probably write tomorrow, can't keep my eyes open ;)

Just a quick note for now, sorry,~~we can't judge ourselves in our 'human mind' the way God's righteousness see's our sins' is one reason I think. Also we might think we do 'it' all right but there's always some things we are neglecting to do that he commands us to do.
Sorry soo tired.......

I hear you sister, I'm getting tired myself and I really should go to sleep, but I have to make babies bottles, and then go grocery shopping, I have 2hrs to go before they close.:rolleyes: Maybe I'll wait till tomorrow on that one:D

I understand your post and it makes sense, I'm sure we will talk more about it tomorrow...nite,nite Laura:)

beachbum53
Jan 14th 2008, 01:45 PM
Oh my Trina :hug: Hope you had a good rest

~A devotional about work ~

by Dr. Charles Stanley

January 14, 2008 -- Getting the Most Out of Work -- Colossians 3:22-24 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=col+3:22-24&version=nkj)

Love what you do, and you will not work a day in your life," goes the modern saying. But we don't always get to do what we like or labor alongside easy-going people. Any job--even a well-loved one--has low points and tasks that feel like drudgery. Our attitude, then, cannot be based upon the work itself or our feelings; rather, it must reflect our position as God's children. We would be far wiser to adopt a new maxim: Work for the Lord you love, and you will be fulfilled every day of your life."
We get the most out of our work when we view ourselves as servants. Modern culture teaches us to seek power and respect for self instead of toiling diligently for those who are in authority over us. But God's Word preaches a different principle: "Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth" (Colossians 3:22). Biblical obedience isn't merely an outward show with inward grumbling and resentment, but a true commitment to the welfare of the employer. (Paul used the word "slaves" because the ancient practice of human ownership was common at the time. Though times have changed, the godly principle still applies.) God's children are called to be His servants. Since we spend significant amounts of time at a job, much of our service will be done there. As employees, we are to apply the biblical principles of obedience and sacrifice, because whoever our human boss may be, God is the ultimate authority overseeing our actions. He wants to see us practicing righteousness at work.

Have a great day

VisionOfYou
Jan 14th 2008, 02:39 PM
I think one of the reasons we're warned so strongly about judging others is that it often comes down to a heart issue. It's apparently too early on Monday morning for my brain to function properly :P - I know Paul talks about judging actions vs. judging the heart, but I can't think of where right now. In Matthew 7:1,2 Jesus says:

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Hmmm:hmm:, I've always looked at passages like this one in Matthew and Romans 2:1 as warning us about having a judgmental attitude - thoughts, speech, etc. I really wish I could remember the passage where Paul says it's ok for us to speak up and say that certain action are wrong. I guess I don't see telling a brother or sister in love that certain things don't line up with the word of God, as judging them. What do you think?

Ninna
Jan 14th 2008, 02:45 PM
In the previous passage, Paul talks about God's judgement of the unrighteous...now in this passage, he talks about God's judgement of the self-righteous. When we judge according to this Scripture, we are being self-righteous which Paul tells us is inexcusable. Jesus talks about this same thing in Matthew 7: 1-5


1) Judge not, that you be not judged.

2) For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

3) And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?

4) Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye?

5) Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. (NKJV)

VisionOfYou
Jan 14th 2008, 02:48 PM
~A devotional about work ~

by Dr. Charles Stanley

January 14, 2008 -- Getting the Most Out of Work -- Colossians 3:22-24 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=col+3:22-24&version=nkj)

Love what you do, and you will not work a day in your life," goes the modern saying. But we don't always get to do what we like or labor alongside easy-going people. Any job--even a well-loved one--has low points and tasks that feel like drudgery. Our attitude, then, cannot be based upon the work itself or our feelings; rather, it must reflect our position as God's children. We would be far wiser to adopt a new maxim: Work for the Lord you love, and you will be fulfilled every day of your life."
We get the most out of our work when we view ourselves as servants. Modern culture teaches us to seek power and respect for self instead of toiling diligently for those who are in authority over us. But God's Word preaches a different principle: "Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth" (Colossians 3:22). Biblical obedience isn't merely an outward show with inward grumbling and resentment, but a true commitment to the welfare of the employer. (Paul used the word "slaves" because the ancient practice of human ownership was common at the time. Though times have changed, the godly principle still applies.) God's children are called to be His servants. Since we spend significant amounts of time at a job, much of our service will be done there. As employees, we are to apply the biblical principles of obedience and sacrifice, because whoever our human boss may be, God is the ultimate authority overseeing our actions. He wants to see us practicing righteousness at work.

Have a great day

What a great reminder, Laura - thank you so much for posting that! :hug: This is something that I really struggled with for a while. My job is not what I would choose to spend the majority of my week on if I had the choice, but when I start thanking God for His provision my attitude changes. :) Even the most mundane and boring things in life can be done for God, and have eternal significance. Wow! As I am getting ahold of that concept, it's mattering less what I do but rather how I do it. It is still hard some days - ok, a lot of days! :lol: - but God is so gracious. :pp

Kingsdaughter
Jan 14th 2008, 04:18 PM
Oh my Trina :hug: Hope you had a good rest

~A devotional about work ~

by Dr. Charles Stanley

January 14, 2008 -- Getting the Most Out of Work -- Colossians 3:22-24 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=col+3:22-24&version=nkj)

Love what you do, and you will not work a day in your life," goes the modern saying. But we don't always get to do what we like or labor alongside easy-going people. Any job--even a well-loved one--has low points and tasks that feel like drudgery. Our attitude, then, cannot be based upon the work itself or our feelings; rather, it must reflect our position as God's children. We would be far wiser to adopt a new maxim: Work for the Lord you love, and you will be fulfilled every day of your life."
We get the most out of our work when we view ourselves as servants. Modern culture teaches us to seek power and respect for self instead of toiling diligently for those who are in authority over us. But God's Word preaches a different principle: "Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth" (Colossians 3:22). Biblical obedience isn't merely an outward show with inward grumbling and resentment, but a true commitment to the welfare of the employer. (Paul used the word "slaves" because the ancient practice of human ownership was common at the time. Though times have changed, the godly principle still applies.) God's children are called to be His servants. Since we spend significant amounts of time at a job, much of our service will be done there. As employees, we are to apply the biblical principles of obedience and sacrifice, because whoever our human boss may be, God is the ultimate authority overseeing our actions. He wants to see us practicing righteousness at work.

Have a great day

Thanks for the devotional Laura, I love Dr. Stanley. This reminds me of that scripture verse that says, whatever we do, do it unto the Lord, for it is God whom we serve.:hug:

Adding scripture verses- Colossians 3:17 NKJV

And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

Colossians 3:23


And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men,

Kingsdaughter
Jan 14th 2008, 04:28 PM
Thank you Rachel and Momof5, I was thinking that Romans 2:1 was talking about self-righteousness too Momof5. I also know that verse you are talking about Rachel, restoring a brother or sister in the Lord with gentleness. I love this verse because it's not saying that we are to judge, but restore!

Galatians 6:1 NKJV

Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

beachbum53
Jan 15th 2008, 01:14 AM
I think one of the reasons we're warned so strongly about judging others is that it often comes down to a heart issue. It's apparently too early on Monday morning for my brain to function properly :P - I know Paul talks about judging actions vs. judging the heart, but I can't think of where right now. In Matthew 7:1,2 Jesus says:

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Hmmm:hmm:, I've always looked at passages like this one in Matthew and Romans 2:1 as warning us about having a judgmental attitude - thoughts, speech, etc. I really wish I could remember the passage where Paul says it's ok for us to speak up and say that certain action are wrong. I guess I don't see telling a brother or sister in love that certain things don't line up with the word of God, as judging them. What do you think?

Thanks for all the input ladies! Really appreciate it! :hug:

When we compare ourselve's to murderers', child abusers etc [[for example]] 'we' think we are pretty dog gone good in God's eye. ~~But they aren't the standard to compare with~God is.

One issue for example is the homosexual issue and Christians' go around gossipping, looking down on other's, not helping out someone in need, not showing Christian love, greed, coveting perhaps their neighbors possession's~ the list goes on but ~~they~~ think they are better in God's eye than the homosexual. My thoughts anyway.

Hey I'm also glad you ladies appreciated the work devotion. I try hard to honor God and not displease Him while I'm at work but~~~~ I sure haven't perfected that one.


Max Lucada~~~~~Only One who has seen our past and knows our future can judge

Who knows what a person has endured and
Philippians 1:6
6 (http://bible.cc/philippians/1-6.htm) For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

beachbum53
Jan 15th 2008, 06:38 PM
Hey ladies,

If you all wouldn't mind picking up from here for a while, just overwhelmed with weeks of stuff to do from being sick plus work. Thanks :hug: Feeling bit stressed ;)

sometimes I get funny about posting in prayer forum~~doc sending me to new doc to consult about possible undiagnosed lyme disease, have had 'these episodes' for yrs...if you could pray for wisdom ...thanks so much ladies :kiss:

while I'm here my co-workers could use prayer bout trial they have been attending [[inmate killed guard on my floor]] not easy reliving what they saw....you ladies are wonderful....:kiss:

Ninna
Jan 15th 2008, 07:18 PM
We'll keep it going, Laura!:hug:

I'm praying for you and your doctor, as well as praying for your co-workers...what a horrible thing to witness.

VisionOfYou
Jan 15th 2008, 10:17 PM
Praying for you Laura! :hug: :pray:

Debra R
Jan 15th 2008, 10:44 PM
Sorry ladies :hug:, I've been exhausted and hadn't been up to posting. Starting to bounce back though.



Hey ladies,

If you all wouldn't mind picking up from here for a while, just overwhelmed with weeks of stuff to do from being sick plus work. Thanks :hug: Feeling bit stressed ;)

sometimes I get funny about posting in prayer forum~~doc sending me to new doc to consult about possible undiagnosed lyme disease, have had 'these episodes' for yrs...if you could pray for wisdom ...thanks so much ladies :kiss:

while I'm here my co-workers could use prayer bout trial they have been attending [[inmate killed guard on my floor]] not easy reliving what they saw....you ladies are wonderful....:kiss:

Oh sis :hug:, praying for you always! Be sure and let us know the day you're going to doctor.

So sorry about your coworkers, that has to be very traumatic. Will be praying for them too.

Love you! :hug:

Debra R
Jan 15th 2008, 11:01 PM
~A devotional about work ~

by Dr. Charles Stanley

January 14, 2008 -- Getting the Most Out of Work -- Colossians 3:22-24 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=col+3:22-24&version=nkj)

Love what you do, and you will not work a day in your life," goes the modern saying. But we don't always get to do what we like or labor alongside easy-going people. Any job--even a well-loved one--has low points and tasks that feel like drudgery. Our attitude, then, cannot be based upon the work itself or our feelings; rather, it must reflect our position as God's children. We would be far wiser to adopt a new maxim: Work for the Lord you love, and you will be fulfilled every day of your life."
We get the most out of our work when we view ourselves as servants. Modern culture teaches us to seek power and respect for self instead of toiling diligently for those who are in authority over us. But God's Word preaches a different principle: "Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth" (Colossians 3:22). Biblical obedience isn't merely an outward show with inward grumbling and resentment, but a true commitment to the welfare of the employer. (Paul used the word "slaves" because the ancient practice of human ownership was common at the time. Though times have changed, the godly principle still applies.) God's children are called to be His servants. Since we spend significant amounts of time at a job, much of our service will be done there. As employees, we are to apply the biblical principles of obedience and sacrifice, because whoever our human boss may be, God is the ultimate authority overseeing our actions. He wants to see us practicing righteousness at work.

Have a great day


What a great reminder, Laura - thank you so much for posting that! :hug: This is something that I really struggled with for a while. My job is not what I would choose to spend the majority of my week on if I had the choice, but when I start thanking God for His provision my attitude changes. :) Even the most mundane and boring things in life can be done for God, and have eternal significance. Wow! As I am getting ahold of that concept, it's mattering less what I do but rather how I do it. It is still hard some days - ok, a lot of days! :lol: - but God is so gracious. :pp

That was a great reminder. Thank you Laura for posting that. :hug:

Hi Rachel, I used to really struggle too. Sometimes still do :(.
It does help to focus on what we are doing as for God and to please Him.

Yes, I'm so thankful our God is so gracious. :hug:

beachbum53
Jan 15th 2008, 11:28 PM
From my heart, thank you all very much for your prayers and also for my co-workers. :kiss: Recieved more upsetting news this afternoon so appreciate the prayers very much.

Deb I'm glad to see you, get worried when I don't. :hug:

Thank you Brenda for offering to help out here! :kiss: I'm just too behind at home to do the research I would like before posting for now. I'll have time to add my fast 2 cents though!

thanked God today for you all :hug:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 15th 2008, 11:57 PM
Father I thank you for Laura and I ask that you will bring healing and restoration to her body. And fill her with Your peace Lord. I ask that you will give wisdom to her doctors who are caring for her. In Jesus name. Amen.

Debra R
Jan 16th 2008, 12:04 AM
~~Thought I would post next verses~~

Please feel free to add to chapter one also if you want

NASB Romans 2:1-11

1 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-1.htm) Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-2.htm) And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-3.htm) But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-4.htm) Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-5.htm) But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-6.htm) who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-7.htm) to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-8.htm) but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-9.htm) There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-10.htm) but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-11.htm) For there is no partiality with God.

Thinking on verse 7 about perseverance. Here are a few cross references......

Luke 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Hebrews 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

Peter 1:7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,


We have need of perseverance and endurance. There are times though I feel I can't endure any more. Those are my weak moments. But I stubbornly cling to God. I know He will get me through.

Our faith is precious to God. We are precious to Him. I am so thankful for His unfailing love.

Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 16th 2008, 12:17 AM
Thinking on verse 7 about perseverance. Here are a few cross references......

Luke 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Hebrews 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

Peter 1:7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,


We have need of perseverance and endurance. There are times though I feel I can't endure any more. Those are my weak moments. But I stubbornly cling to God. I know He will get me through.

Our faith is precious to God. We are precious to Him. I am so thankful for His unfailing love.

Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

Amen! I like how you said," I stubbornly cling to God" there are times in my own life that I just want to sleep rather than spend that quiet time with Him. For me, there are so many things that keep me busy during the day, that I have to just stop everything that I am doing and go and spend some time with the Lord, even when at times I am tired or discouraged. Thank you for scripture Deb:saint::hug:

VisionOfYou
Jan 16th 2008, 02:27 PM
Amen! I like how you said," I stubbornly cling to God" there are times in my own life that I just want to sleep rather than spend that quiet time with Him. For me, there are so many things that keep me busy during the day, that I have to just stop everything that I am doing and go and spend some time with the Lord, even when at times I am tired or discouraged. Thank you for scripture Deb:saint::hug:

Those verses that Deb posted sound a lot like Psalm 37. For whatever reason I've been really gripped by verse 6 the past few days:

"He shall bring forth your righteousness as the light, and your justice as the noonday."

The rest of the passage talks about how God will be faithful to reward the righteous and punish the wicked, even if we don't see it immediately. And I have been thinking, like you said Trina, sometimes it's a small thing and we feel tired and discouraged. But God sees every one of those small decisions and calls it righteousness. That is so amazing to me!

Kingsdaughter
Jan 16th 2008, 03:06 PM
Those verses that Deb posted sound a lot like Psalm 37. For whatever reason I've been really gripped by verse 6 the past few days:

"He shall bring forth your righteousness as the light, and your justice as the noonday."

The rest of the passage talks about how God will be faithful to reward the righteous and punish the wicked, even if we don't see it immediately. And I have been thinking, like you said Trina, sometimes it's a small thing and we feel tired and discouraged. But God sees every one of those small decisions and calls it righteousness. That is so amazing to me!

Oh Rachel, the Lord is so awesome and I love how He knows exactly what we need and He directs us in the path that we should take when we trust Him. After I read your post, I opened up my bible to Psalm 37 and began to read, I started crying and the Lord just spoke to my heart this morning with this chapter, I absolutely believe that our steps are ordered by the Lord and it is not a coincedence that you posted this chapter and I read it:saint:. Amen sister! Thank you:kiss::hug:

VisionOfYou
Jan 16th 2008, 04:00 PM
Oh Rachel, the Lord is so awesome and I love how He knows exactly what we need and He directs us in the path that we should take when we trust Him. After I read your post, I opened up my bible to Psalm 37 and began to read, I started crying and the Lord just spoke to my heart this morning with this chapter, I absolutely believe that our steps are ordered by the Lord and it is not a coincedence that you posted this chapter and I read it:saint:. Amen sister! Thank you:kiss::hug:

Lol, I know exactly what you mean! :hug:

beachbum53
Jan 16th 2008, 06:49 PM
Just wanted to say I've enjoyed reading your thoughts here, makes me smile thinking of the joy of the Lord that is so evident here. I'm so glad you all are participating here! Thanks for posting that verse Rachel! We sure do see it everyday, the wicked prospering and seemingly doing so well. But we have the greater riches!

Deb I also have to say I loved that expression...stubbornly holding on...:pp

This is off topic but I clicked on comments in Washington Post around 2 weeks ago from a story I had never seen but the question was "are people who believe in God mentally ill"..:o I tried to refind it once to show my son but short story was...there was over 1800 comments and I went through page after page for around 30 minutes and found only 2-3 people who disagreed, they thought we must be mentally ill. :oI wrote a comment but can't find it to see if topic was ever continued.

Thank you all again for the prayers...:hug: Doctor is 28th. Feel no better but He is with me.
thought I would be 'running furiously' around by now :(

Appreciate prayers for co-workers also, trial should wrap up tomorrow. They are all done testifying except for my manager who was supen~~d [[can't spell] for today. Correctional Officer left behind 5 children. :cry: [[Jeffrey]]

Oh an example on judging... David judged a rich farmer for robbing a poor one of his beloved lamb after David just had Uriah killed.
2Samuel 12
5 (http://bible.cc/2_samuel/12-5.htm) Then David’s anger burned greatly against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the LORD lives, surely the man who has done this deserves to die.

:eek:

love you sisters :hug:

Debra R
Jan 17th 2008, 04:36 AM
I love Psalm 37! verses 4 and 5 are dear to me.....4 Delight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.
5 Commit your way to the LORD,
Trust also in Him,
And He shall bring it to pass.


Laura, thinking on what you read..."are people who believe in God mentally ill"..

Before I became a Christian I had the idea that Christians were weak.

Boy was I wrong! Christians are the strongest people I know!

I thought I would post a few more verses then I have to get to sleep or I will have a hard time getting up in the morning for work.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

With me being tired those look like some tough verses. :hmm:

I better go!

Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 18th 2008, 01:24 AM
I love verse 15 that says that the law is written in their hearts, that is so important because there are many who on the outside look like a christian and can quote the bible, but Jesus is not in their hearts. I was like that growing up in a christian family, I was not saved, but I was doing what christians do, when deep down inside, I did not know the Lord personally and I did not have Him in my heart. Thank God I do now:pp

beachbum53
Jan 18th 2008, 03:02 AM
so true Trina!

was doing little reading on verses and on verse's 6-7

6 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-6.htm) who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-7.htm) to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

Phillipians 3
10 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-10.htm) that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-11.htm) in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-12.htm) Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-13.htm) Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-14.htm) I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-15.htm) Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-16.htm) however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

Colossians 3
1 (http://bible.cc/colossians/3-1.htm) Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 (http://bible.cc/colossians/3-2.htm) Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3 (http://bible.cc/colossians/3-3.htm) For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 (http://bible.cc/colossians/3-4.htm) When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

2 Corinthians 4

17 (http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/4-17.htm) For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, 18 (http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/4-18.htm) while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Matthew 25

.’ 21 (http://bible.cc/matthew/25-21.htm) “His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’

1John 5

20 (http://bible.cc/1_john/5-20.htm) And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

keep erasing what I write about judging our deeds, can't get it right now..

VisionOfYou
Jan 18th 2008, 02:12 PM
What does it mean in verse 12 when it says that as many as sinned without law will also perish without law? Is that kind of the same as the passage that says something to the effect of for people who don't know any better, it's not sin, but if you know the truth it's sin? Or is this talking about something else?

Kingsdaughter
Jan 18th 2008, 06:56 PM
What does it mean in verse 12 when it says that as many as sinned without law will also perish without law? Is that kind of the same as the passage that says something to the effect of for people who don't know any better, it's not sin, but if you know the truth it's sin? Or is this talking about something else?

Hi Rachel,

That's interesting ,I was thinking that verse 12. is talking about Gentiles and Jews? That the Gentiles who sin apart from the law, because the law was given to the Jews, will perish apart from the law, just the same as the Jews who sin, even though they have the law, will be judged by the law. What do you think?

VisionOfYou
Jan 18th 2008, 08:57 PM
Hi Rachel,

That's interesting ,I was thinking that verse 12. is talking about Gentiles and Jews? That the Gentiles who sin apart from the law, because the law was given to the Jews, will perish apart from the law, just the same as the Jews who sin, even though they have the law, will be judged by the law. What do you think?

Hi Trina,

I agree, I think he's talking about Gentiles and Jews. I wonder, tho, if he's using "Gentile" in the sense of "non-Jew" or "unbeliever", and if he's talking about the Mosaic law or God's law (without all the specifics of the Mosaic law)? Lol, I'm probably just making this too difficult...but I am trying to understand what "perish without the law" or "apart from the law" means. Looking at the rest of the passage, it seems to me that he's saying that those who knew the law will be judged according to it, but those who didn't know it will be judged by what was in their heart. IOW, if they acted in accordance with the amount of revelation they did have. :lol: I'm not sure if that made any sense. I do think that v.16 is a very powerful statement.

Kingsdaughter
Jan 19th 2008, 12:21 AM
Hi Trina,

I agree, I think he's talking about Gentiles and Jews. I wonder, tho, if he's using "Gentile" in the sense of "non-Jew" or "unbeliever", and if he's talking about the Mosaic law or God's law (without all the specifics of the Mosaic law)? Lol, I'm probably just making this too difficult...but I am trying to understand what "perish without the law" or "apart from the law" means. Looking at the rest of the passage, it seems to me that he's saying that those who knew the law will be judged according to it, but those who didn't know it will be judged by what was in their heart. IOW, if they acted in accordance with the amount of revelation they did have. :lol: I'm not sure if that made any sense. I do think that v.16 is a very powerful statement.

LOL:lol: no rachel, that makes sense! I too think that verse 16 is a very powerful statement...a stern warning to all of us who need to repent of any known sin in our lives.

Ninna
Jan 19th 2008, 12:33 AM
Hi Rachel,

That's interesting ,I was thinking that verse 12. is talking about Gentiles and Jews? That the Gentiles who sin apart from the law, because the law was given to the Jews, will perish apart from the law, just the same as the Jews who sin, even though they have the law, will be judged by the law. What do you think?

I read this as Gentiles and Jews also. I also read it as all being judged - the Jew by the Law, the Gentile by the moral law in the heart...actions and motives both.

beachbum53
Jan 19th 2008, 02:45 AM
Agree everyone...

Much knowledge, punishment more severe from what I have been reading....

Matthew 11
20 (http://bible.cc/matthew/11-20.htm) Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. 21 (http://bible.cc/matthew/11-21.htm) “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 (http://bible.cc/matthew/11-22.htm) “Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23 (http://bible.cc/matthew/11-23.htm) “And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24 (http://bible.cc/matthew/11-24.htm) “Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.”

These Jewish people saw Christ perform miracles and still rejected Him as their Messiah.

Hebrews 10

26 (http://bible.cc/hebrews/10-26.htm) For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 (http://bible.cc/hebrews/10-27.htm) but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28 (http://bible.cc/hebrews/10-28.htm) Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 (http://bible.cc/hebrews/10-29.htm) How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 (http://bible.cc/hebrews/10-30.htm) For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31 (http://bible.cc/hebrews/10-31.htm) It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

pretty strong warning...

I read that saying "Lord Lord" and not obeying is like Judas's kiss.

Question..
Jeremiah says all who seek God will find Him.....nations where gospel was/isn't spread but people believe in God from creation/moral conscious but never heard about Jesus....eternal life is only if you believe in His son...so where does that put ones' who have died or will without hearing about Christ.

Kingsdaughter
Jan 19th 2008, 04:30 AM
The bible says that it is appointed unto man once to die and after that judgment, so we know that there is no salvation AFTER death. But for those who died and never heard the gospel? I don't know, but I know that God is just!

beachbum53
Jan 19th 2008, 01:21 PM
Hi Trina, yea that's all I can conclude with also. Thanks, :hug: Sometimes my brain goes into overtime while reading too much as once. :D

VisionOfYou
Jan 21st 2008, 02:49 PM
Jeremiah says all who seek God will find Him.....nations where gospel was/isn't spread but people believe in God from creation/moral conscious but never heard about Jesus....eternal life is only if you believe in His son...so where does that put ones' who have died or will without hearing about Christ.

I agree with what you and Trina said, that we don't know exactly how things will play out on judgment day, but God is just. My own personal belief is that those who never heard of Jesus but believed in God to the extent that He is revealed in nature and their own hearts will get into heaven. We had a really good discussion about this one week in my church's Monday night Bible class - very interesting.

beachbum53
Jan 24th 2008, 02:38 AM
just checking in to read any new posts, out of town at mom's. Feel like an intruder in the library here at her place. :lol:

:kiss:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 28th 2008, 12:08 AM
:lol:that's funny Laura, I just talked to my mom yesterday and she asked when am I going to bring her grandchildren to see her.

beachbum53
Jan 28th 2008, 01:03 AM
listen to mom and get those beautiful babies to see her :hug: Do you live close?

my mom doesn't think I should touch the computer in the library :lol:I tried to tell her they would not mind but once she is sure of something you don't have a chance :lol:

I was on twice for approximately 15 minutes tops in the evening when I didn't see one resident anywhere to be found :lol:

Anyway just got home from work; hopefully will post some verses on my days off. Have to shower and eat and I'm sure then sleep!

:kiss:

Debra R
Jan 28th 2008, 04:12 AM
Hi ladies! :hug:

:(I'm sorry I have not participated in our study. Work has been crazy! Been working overtime and have been exhausted, physically and mentally.

Hopefully this week will be better.

:hug:Laura, remembering you go to doctor tomorrow. Will be praying!

Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

beachbum53
Jan 28th 2008, 11:54 AM
You take care of yourself Deb; that's all we care about. :kiss: :pray:

BUT so glad you posted :hug:

Thank you so much for remembering my appointment; you're pretty awesome :kiss:

:hug: :kiss: :pray:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 28th 2008, 06:20 PM
I just love you gals and I think you are all awesome:hug: Yes Laura, my mom is right:D If God be willing, I will take a trip to Southern California next month to visit my mom and dad. They live about 400 miles from us.

beachbum53
Jan 29th 2008, 05:14 PM
Thought I would add some verses..I know we talked on verse 12 some...
Sorry to be falling behind here..seems like something is always happening, now have migraine 2 days :lol: Hope to get rolling again soon before it takes 2 years :lol:

Romans 2:12-16 ~~~NRSV~~
12 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-12.htm) For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-13.htm) for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-14.htm) For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-15.htm) in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-16.htm) on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Romans 2:17-24

17 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-17.htm) But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-18.htm) and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-19.htm) and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-20.htm) a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-21.htm) you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-22.htm) You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-23.htm) You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-24.htm) For “THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU,” just as it is written.

Debra R
Jan 29th 2008, 11:52 PM
Hi Ladies! :hug:

I looked up several commentaries on these verses and found Burton Coffman's commentary on Search Gods Word. I thought I would post some of it.


Verses 12, 13

In these verses, Paul began to deal with a dramatic difference between Jews and Gentiles. In the preceding verses, he had shown that God was no respector of persons, and that he would judge Jew and Gentile alike upon the basis of their deeds, whether good or bad; but until these verses Paul had taken no account of the fact that the Jews had been the custodians of God's divine revelation called "the law," here and throughout Romans.

The Gentiles had possessed no such advantage; and Paul, to continue his great argument relative to God's intrinsic righteousness, was here concerned with showing how, under those diverse circumstances, God's judgments would still be fair and impartial. The two great facts with regard to the Gentiles were: (1) that they had sinned, and (2) they had not received the law of Moses. For good and righteous reasons, already set forth in chapter 1, the Gentiles perished anyway because of their dreadful rebellion against God.

The Jews, on the other hand, did have God's law; but they never kept it. However, they were still to be judged upon the basis of the law they never kept, the mere fact of their having had it being in no sense a guarantee of a favorable judgment; "For not the hearers of the law, ,but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Not the hearers ...

is of interest and contrasts with "readers of the law," which might have been expected; but Paul's terminology was correct because most of the Jews, every sabbath day in the synagogues, heard the scriptures read, very few, if any of them, having copies of God's word in their homes. Again, the words of an apostle confirm Paul's declaration (rather they confirm each other), thus: James 1:22-25

That the actual doing of God's law, whether the Old Testament law as it concerned the Jews or the perfect law of liberty as it concerns Christians (for James was talking about the latter), is required of those who would be saved is thus taught both by Paul and by James; and significantly, the very first reference to justification in the whole Roman letter is right here!
There is no intimation in these words that any true justification, in the absolute sense, was ever achieved by any under the law of Moses; but, inasmuch as there were countless persons under that system who were saved, a justification sufficient to that Paul's meaning is therefore to the effect that whoever was saved under the law of Moses was of the class called "doers" of God's commandments, rather than mere hearers.

Verses 14, 15
These verses reveal the eighth principle of divine judgment, namely,
VIII. That God's righteous judgment will take into account the light people had or did not have.
..................
Paul's intimation that Gentiles might do by nature the things of the law shows that the eternally righteous God will certainly take into account all of the good conduct of any Gentiles whose lives might warrant doing so, even though they were not under a specific law like the Jews; but the practical verdict had already been stated in verse 12, "that as many as sinned without law shall also perish without law." From this, and the whole tenor of Paul's letter, it is clear that Paul's great proposition is that both Jews and Gentiles have failed to achieve any true righteousness, or to be justified in any adequate sense................


By way of summarizing thoughts on these 16 verses Romans 2:1-16, two things should be kept in mind: (1) that the subject treated in this section is that of the final judgment, handled in such a manner by the apostle as to vindicate the righteousness of the just Judge who shall conduct it, and to reveal the basic principles of God's law that will form the basis of it; and (2) that the persons to whom this passage was particularly addressed were the antagonistic Jews, who, unlike the noble Jews who formed the very first nucleus of Christians (including Paul), were in a state of utmost wickedness and rebellion against God, despite which they still imagined that they would inherit salvation because of the privileges of Judaism.


I thought that was interesting. Hope it's not too long.

Gotta go, will be back later.

Laura, sorry you're having headaches . Praying for you!

Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Jan 30th 2008, 02:59 AM
Romans 2:17-24
17 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-17.htm) But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-18.htm) and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-19.htm) and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-20.htm) a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-21.htm) you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-22.htm) You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-23.htm) You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 (http://bible.cc/romans/2-24.htm) For “THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU,” just as it is written.

Essentially I think :) he was impressing them to examine themselves. They were not as righteous as they believed themselves to be. Those who claimed to follow the law were far from it. There is reference to
Matthew...

23:3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.

6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,

7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’

8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.

9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.


It goes with all of Matthew 23 but I just posted part.

Paul is laying out the groundwork here to understand the next chapters.
To show that we have no righteousness of our own. We need Christ. He is our righteousness.

Blessings :hug:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 30th 2008, 03:27 AM
I totally agree with you Deb! He is telling them to examine their own hearts. In asking questions like...you tell others," do not steal" but, "DO YOU STEAL? I want to go deeper into these verses because even though He was speaking to the Jews, He is also speaking to all those who are "religious" and have no relationship with the King! Those who "profess" to be christians and quote scripture to unbelievers, when, behind closed doors they themselves commit the same sins or are struggling with other sins. Verse 24. is such a powerful verse because it says that the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of them. Is it the same as in our day when an unbeliever comes across a self righteous christian?

beachbum53
Jan 30th 2008, 01:19 PM
Ah ladies, excellent posts, thank you both for your time and thoughts on this. :hug: I can't yet sit here for long. I think you all covered the verses wonderfully anyway!

Trina your last part of the post with question...Yep I believe that is absolutely correct! Brings me to mind of a lady I work with, I've used this before. So many times she is rude, and one day I walked up to the station and all I heard was "and she is supposed to be a Christian" And the other lady said "I know" and they were both like shaking their heads. People do watch us and expect more in our character and actions. I have a few relatives who are in church weekly but....I'd rather not do details now. I don't want to sound like I'm judging, Lord knows I have a long way to go but it's kind of hurtful the things they do or don't do. I just thank God He gives me the desire to learn and grow in His knowledge. Sometimes I don't know why He chose me.

The other week I was in church and needed to slide down and said excuse me to 3 ladies and two of them gave me a 'look to kill' as they got up. :eek:
Very politely I apologized for disturbing them. I can still see their faces'. :(

Well I can't sit here anymore, neck is objecting~~~Thank you all~~.


:kiss: :hug:

beachbum53
Jan 30th 2008, 02:00 PM
I know not all agree with Max but thought this fit verses' we are discussing.

I’ve wondered, at times, what kind of man this Judas was. What he looked like, how he acted, who his friends were.…
But for all the things we don’t know about Judas, there is one thing we know for sure: he had no relationship with the Master. He had seen Jesus, but he did not know him. He had heard Jesus, but he did not understand him. He had religion, but no relationship.
As Satan worked his way around the table in the Upper Room, he needed a special kind of man to betray our Lord. He needed a man who had seen Jesus, but did not know him. He needed a man who knew the actions of Jesus, but had missed out on the mission of Jesus. Judas was this man. He knew the empire but had never known the Man.
We learn this timeless lesson from the betrayer. Satan’s best tools of destruction are not from outside the church, they are from within the church. A church will never die from the immorality in Hollywood or the corruption in Washington. But it will die from corrosion within—from those who bear the name of Jesus but have never met him, and from those who have religion, but no relationship.
Judas bore the cloak of religion, but he never knew the heart of Christ. Let’s make it our goal to know … deeply.
Lucado, M. (1996). Life lessons from the inspired word of God : Book of Romans. Inspirational bible study series (22). Dallas, Tex.: Word Pub.

beachbum53
Jan 30th 2008, 03:33 PM
As we are finding, Romans is much more than just learning about His peace, but we know that by searching and knowing His Word that will bring us His peace.

Was reading this psalm and wanted to share. Psalm 119

161 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-161.htm) Princes persecute me without cause,
But my heart stands in awe of Your words.
162 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-162.htm) I rejoice at Your word,
As one who finds great spoil.
163 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-163.htm) I hate and despise falsehood,
But I love Your law.
164 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-164.htm) Seven times a day I praise You,
Because of Your righteous ordinances.
165 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-165.htm) Those who love Your law have great peace,
And nothing causes them to stumble.
166 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-166.htm) I hope for Your salvation, O LORD,
And do Your commandments.
167 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-167.htm) My soul keeps Your testimonies,
And I love them exceedingly.
168 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-168.htm) I keep Your precepts and Your testimonies,
For all my ways are before You.
Tav. 169 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-169.htm) Let my cry come before You, O LORD;
Give me understanding according to Your word.
170 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-170.htm) Let my supplication come before You;
Deliver me according to Your word.
171 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-171.htm) Let my lips utter praise,
For You teach me Your statutes.
172 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-172.htm) Let my tongue sing of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.
173 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-173.htm) Let Your hand be ready to help me,
For I have chosen Your precepts.
174 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-174.htm) I long for Your salvation, O LORD,
And Your law is my delight.
175 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-175.htm) Let my soul live that it may praise You,
And let Your ordinances help me.
176 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-176.htm) I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek Your servant,
For I do not forget Your commandments.

:OFFT:

just wanted to post my thoughts this morning...perhaps I should blog instead ;)

been studying Job again; did a lot of study last year on suffering trying to understand why faithful suffer so. Our dear Mieke :cry: sometimes I don't understand. ~But~ He has been faithful in so many other ways, so many love her dearly, so many pray always; He hears all our prayers because she is faithful and righteous, He gives her a hunger for His Word which does give her peace and she delights in Him and praises Him always. She has inspired many many believers and unbelievers. He has restored her from being alone, not only with Charles or us here, but knowing The Almighty Comforter is with her always, even presenting Himself to her that she feels His presence and His peace. I still have such a hard time seeing her suffer but knowing God is in control helps tremendously.

Job 22

21 (http://bible.cc/job/22-21.htm) “Yield now and be at peace with Him;
Thereby good will come to you.
22 (http://bible.cc/job/22-22.htm) “Please receive instruction from His mouth
And establish His words in your heart.
23 (http://bible.cc/job/22-23.htm) “If you return to the Almighty, you will be restored;
If you remove unrighteousness far from your tent,
24 (http://bible.cc/job/22-24.htm) And place your gold in the dust,
And the gold of Ophir among the stones of the brooks,
25 (http://bible.cc/job/22-25.htm) Then the Almighty will be your gold
And choice silver to you.
26 (http://bible.cc/job/22-26.htm) “For then you will delight in the Almighty
And lift up your face to God.
27 (http://bible.cc/job/22-27.htm) “You will pray to Him, and He will hear you;
And you will pay your vows.
28 (http://bible.cc/job/22-28.htm) “You will also decree a thing, and it will be established for you;
And light will shine on your ways.
29 (http://bible.cc/job/22-29.htm) “When you are cast down, you will speak with confidence,
And the humble person He will save.

Thanks for bearing with me as I post my thoughts this morning. I feel 'safe' here :kiss: love you all

Thank you for the prayers Debra :kiss: I have a call into doc, feeling like a pain there this month :lol: My muscle relaxers aren't working. I'm wrapped up in those pads you buy to put on whatever is hurting with an ace bandage to keep them on and tight. What a sight, now figuring out how to do shower and wash hair. :lol:
But better today :pp don't dare miss work tomorrow :pray:

Kingsdaughter
Jan 30th 2008, 06:33 PM
Hi Laura, I love your posts and I am excited because I agree and I want to respond, but the kiddies are crying,my house is a mess and I still have bible study to do:lol:I will be back later to post. Love you gals:hug:

Ninna
Jan 30th 2008, 11:59 PM
I, too, have wanted to respond...I have a bad case of bronchitis and sitting at the computer seems to make me not breathe well and cough like crazy. I am reading and will be back posting within the next couple days.:hug:

beachbum53
Jan 31st 2008, 01:40 AM
Hi Laura, I love your posts and I am excited because I agree and I want to respond, but the kiddies are crying,my house is a mess and I still have bible study to do:lol:I will be back later to post. Love you gals:hug:

oh my! I can't help saying this ~~I'm so very glad you don't have a headache~~ :lol:

Made me think what I did when I couldn't just go lay down..Guess I survived. Spoiled now.


I, too, have wanted to respond...I have a bad case of bronchitis and sitting at the computer seems to make me not breathe well and cough like crazy. I am reading and will be back posting within the next couple days.:hug:

Wandering about you :hug: Im sorry you have been sick. Will pray you feel better soon!

Looking forward to you both chirping in.

Debra R
Jan 31st 2008, 03:40 AM
I totally agree with you Deb! He is telling them to examine their own hearts. In asking questions like...you tell others," do not steal" but, "DO YOU STEAL? I want to go deeper into these verses because even though He was speaking to the Jews, He is also speaking to all those who are "religious" and have no relationship with the King! Those who "profess" to be christians and quote scripture to unbelievers, when, behind closed doors they themselves commit the same sins or are struggling with other sins. Verse 24. is such a powerful verse because it says that the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of them. Is it the same as in our day when an unbeliever comes across a self righteous christian?


:) Hi Trina,
The answer to your question is yes. And I hate to admit it but there was a time when I would say to myself "If they are Christian I don't want to be one." :o
It's funny cause I heard that expression on a sermon this morning. I was like, o wow. But he was explaining at first we are as new born babies, we have to grow. It takes awhile to change old habits, to put off the "old man" and put on the "new".

But it is a shame to profess to be Christian and with our actions to cause God's name to be blasphemed.

I like the site where Laura posted verses from. Thanks Laura! Thats a good site. I explored it a little. I got this commentary from there.....



Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary....


2:17-24 The apostle directs his discourse to the Jews, and shows of what sins they were guilty, notwithstanding their profession and vain pretensions. A believing, humble, thankful glorying in God, is the root and sum of all religion. But proud, vain-glorious boasting in God, and in the outward profession of his name, is the root and sum of all hypocrisy. Spiritual pride is the most dangerous of all kinds of pride. A great evil of the sins professors is, the dishonour done to God and religion, by their not living according to their profession. Many despise their more ignorant neighbours who rest in a dead form of godliness; yet themselves trust in a form of knowledge, equally void of life and power, while some glory in the gospel, whose unholy lives dishonour God, and cause his name to be blasphemed.

Debra R
Jan 31st 2008, 03:58 AM
As we are finding, Romans is much more than just learning about His peace, but we know that by searching and knowing His Word that will bring us His peace.

Was reading this psalm and wanted to share. Psalm 119

161 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-161.htm) Princes persecute me without cause,
But my heart stands in awe of Your words.
162 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-162.htm) I rejoice at Your word,
As one who finds great spoil.
163 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-163.htm) I hate and despise falsehood,
But I love Your law.
164 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-164.htm) Seven times a day I praise You,
Because of Your righteous ordinances.
165 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-165.htm) Those who love Your law have great peace,
And nothing causes them to stumble.
166 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-166.htm) I hope for Your salvation, O LORD,
And do Your commandments.
167 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-167.htm) My soul keeps Your testimonies,
And I love them exceedingly.
168 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-168.htm) I keep Your precepts and Your testimonies,
For all my ways are before You.
Tav. 169 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-169.htm) Let my cry come before You, O LORD;
Give me understanding according to Your word.
170 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-170.htm) Let my supplication come before You;
Deliver me according to Your word.
171 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-171.htm) Let my lips utter praise,
For You teach me Your statutes.
172 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-172.htm) Let my tongue sing of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.
173 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-173.htm) Let Your hand be ready to help me,
For I have chosen Your precepts.
174 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-174.htm) I long for Your salvation, O LORD,
And Your law is my delight.
175 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-175.htm) Let my soul live that it may praise You,
And let Your ordinances help me.
176 (http://bible.cc/psalms/119-176.htm) I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek Your servant,
For I do not forget Your commandments.

:OFFT:

just wanted to post my thoughts this morning...perhaps I should blog instead ;)

been studying Job again; did a lot of study last year on suffering trying to understand why faithful suffer so. Our dear Mieke :cry: sometimes I don't understand. ~But~ He has been faithful in so many other ways, so many love her dearly, so many pray always; He hears all our prayers because she is faithful and righteous, He gives her a hunger for His Word which does give her peace and she delights in Him and praises Him always. She has inspired many many believers and unbelievers. He has restored her from being alone, not only with Charles or us here, but knowing The Almighty Comforter is with her always, even presenting Himself to her that she feels His presence and His peace. I still have such a hard time seeing her suffer but knowing God is in control helps tremendously.

Job 22

21 (http://bible.cc/job/22-21.htm) “Yield now and be at peace with Him;
Thereby good will come to you.
22 (http://bible.cc/job/22-22.htm) “Please receive instruction from His mouth
And establish His words in your heart.
23 (http://bible.cc/job/22-23.htm) “If you return to the Almighty, you will be restored;
If you remove unrighteousness far from your tent,
24 (http://bible.cc/job/22-24.htm) And place your gold in the dust,
And the gold of Ophir among the stones of the brooks,
25 (http://bible.cc/job/22-25.htm) Then the Almighty will be your gold
And choice silver to you.
26 (http://bible.cc/job/22-26.htm) “For then you will delight in the Almighty
And lift up your face to God.
27 (http://bible.cc/job/22-27.htm) “You will pray to Him, and He will hear you;
And you will pay your vows.
28 (http://bible.cc/job/22-28.htm) “You will also decree a thing, and it will be established for you;
And light will shine on your ways.
29 (http://bible.cc/job/22-29.htm) “When you are cast down, you will speak with confidence,
And the humble person He will save.

Thanks for bearing with me as I post my thoughts this morning. I feel 'safe' here :kiss: love you all

Thank you for the prayers Debra :kiss: I have a call into doc, feeling like a pain there this month :lol: My muscle relaxers aren't working. I'm wrapped up in those pads you buy to put on whatever is hurting with an ace bandage to keep them on and tight. What a sight, now figuring out how to do shower and wash hair. :lol:
But better today :pp don't dare miss work tomorrow :pray:

Laura I'm sorry your hurting. Still praying!

Thank you for Max, that was good!

Thank you for the Psalm too!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us :hug:. I feel the same about Mieke. It breaks my heart that she has to suffer so much.
Those are beautiful verses from Job.

It's going to be a busy day for me tomorrow too. Tomorrow evening Tina and I are going to the Relay for Life meeting at the American Cancer Society. The event is in June. We'll need team members and help raising money. :)

I have a feeling it will be very emotional for me, Tina too. We'll be seeing many people we haven't seen in quite awhile, others who have lost their children to cancer. Some of the nurses who cared for Nathan will be there too. I just don't know how well I will hold up.



You take it easy tomorrow. I'll be praying for your strength.
Love you sis! :hug:

Debra R
Jan 31st 2008, 04:00 AM
Hi Laura, I love your posts and I am excited because I agree and I want to respond, but the kiddies are crying,my house is a mess and I still have bible study to do:lol:I will be back later to post. Love you gals:hug:

Bless your heart! I remember those days! Hope the kiddies are calmed down by now. :hug: You do have some beautiful babies!

Love you! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Jan 31st 2008, 04:02 AM
I, too, have wanted to respond...I have a bad case of bronchitis and sitting at the computer seems to make me not breathe well and cough like crazy. I am reading and will be back posting within the next couple days.:hug:


Brenda, I have missed you too! :hug:
I'm sorry you're not feeling well either. Praying for you too sis! Love you! :kiss::hug:

beachbum53
Jan 31st 2008, 09:39 AM
Debra,

I'll be thinking and praying for you and Tina and your family. God will give you strength to carry on this good work, but I understand it will be difficult. :hug:

Have your pics right here :kiss:

VisionOfYou
Jan 31st 2008, 04:19 PM
Hi ladies, I just wanted to check in. I've been reading your posts but have been totally slammed at work for a while and then very sick myself for the past couple of days. Sorry to hear others are not feeling well, and praying that we are all better soon! :pray:

Debra R
Feb 1st 2008, 01:42 AM
Hi ladies, I just wanted to check in. I've been reading your posts but have been totally slammed at work for a while and then very sick myself for the past couple of days. Sorry to hear others are not feeling well, and praying that we are all better soon! :pray:


Hi Rachel! :hug: Missed you too! Sorry work has been tough for you. I do know that feeling! Mine has slowed a little this week, last week was horrible. I'm ready to quit again! :D

Sorry you haven't been feeling well either. Praying for you too sis! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Feb 1st 2008, 01:48 AM
Debra,

I'll be thinking and praying for you and Tina and your family. God will give you strength to carry on this good work, but I understand it will be difficult. :hug:

Have your pics right here :kiss:

Thank you Laura! :hug:

The meeting was canceled because of snow. We already have 2 inches. They're calling for up to 6 inches. Joy, joy. Too bad it's not saturday. I dread getting to work in that mess. Maybe it won't be too bad.

The next meeting is Feb. 21st. Hopefully, no snow.

Thank you for your prayers!
Love you! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Feb 1st 2008, 01:57 AM
Thought I would post the last verses for chapter two.


(NASB)Romans 2:25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27988A))practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27988B))your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

26 (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27989C))So if (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27989D))the uncircumcised man (E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27989E))keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

27 And (F (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27990F))he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not (G (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27990G))judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

28 For (H (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27991H))he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

29 But (I (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27992I))he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and (J (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27992J))circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the (K (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27992K))Spirit, not by the letter; (L (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%202:25-29;&version=50;49;#cen-NKJV-en-NASB-27992L))and his praise is not from men, but from God.

beachbum53
Feb 1st 2008, 02:25 AM
Missed you also Rachel! Gosh I'm sorry you were sick too. :hug: Feb. has got to be great for us all. :D I hope work has been better for you this week. :hug: Try to rest and come back to us!

I could have quit very easily myself also today Deb :lol:

Brenda hope you're feeling better! Hi Trina!

:kiss:

Kingsdaughter
Feb 1st 2008, 04:37 AM
Hello sisters. I'm so sorry to hear that you are all not feeling well. Praying that the Lord will heal your bodies and restore your health in Jesus name:pray:.

VisionOfYou
Feb 1st 2008, 03:23 PM
Deb, Laura, Trina - thank you so much for your kind words; it really brightened my day to read them! You are such beautiful women - the love of God shines from you, even across the internet. :hug: Lol, sorry if that was silly...but I've been feeling really crummy lately and you all ministered to me. :) And I agree, Feb. is going to be a good month! ;)

I've been thinking, as I read this chapter, that it's such an amazing thing how completely God captured Paul's heart. In Acts 23 he says that he is a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee, so a lot of his life was spent in dead religion. And yet after his encounter with God he understands so well the balance of relationship and the law. It makes me think of Psalm 119. Verse 96 makes more sense to me without the italicized words added by the translators.

96 I have seen the consummation of all perfection,
Your commandment exceedingly broad.
97 Oh, how I love Your law!
It is my meditation all the day.
98 You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies;
For they are ever with me.
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts.
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word.
102 I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me.
103 How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.
106 I have sworn and confirmed
That I will keep Your righteous judgments.
107 I am afflicted very much;
Revive me, O LORD, according to Your word.
108 Accept, I pray, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD,
And teach me Your judgments.

Kingsdaughter
Feb 1st 2008, 04:26 PM
That's not silly at all Rachael, I feel the same way about all of you:hug:

I agree that Paul had a good balance between the law of God and a relationship with Him. Psalm 119 is good example.Thank you for posting those verses.

You know what I was thinking about the law and our relationship with God. Is that God gave us His law and said, " Okay, this is the "model" of a "perfect person" and in order for you to have fellowship with me, then you have to obey all of these." I say to myself that theres just no way I can be that person, maybe if I tried I could do one or two, but not all and certainly not all day and everyday. So what does God do, in response to my helplessness? He sends His Son to be that "perfect person" for me and that if I put my trust in Him, He will forgive me because He lived the sinless life that I could not, and He died so that I can be forgiven. Not only that, but He sent the Spirit of His Son to live in me, so that through HIM I can live as the Lord wanted me to. Why? Because I have the Spirit of that "perfect person" (Jesus Christ)living inside of me. Hallelujah!!!! This is something that I posted on one of Hoot's threads in MiC. We were "talking" about the law and our relationship with the Lord. Oh praise God! That we don't have to live the christian life in our own efforts, but that all we have to do is surrender to the Holy Spirit that He may do His work through us. Amen! For if we walk in the Spirit, we are not under the law. Jesus fullfilled the law of God down to the last letter!!!!! He did what I could not do for myself:cry: Oh Amen! I really wish we were all in the same room so that we could praise and worship Him together:hug: I love you all.

beachbum53
Feb 2nd 2008, 04:01 AM
Rachel and Trina what beautiful posts, :cry: [happy] :amen: Enjoyed and appreciated both of your thoughts! You all know that you have lifted me up and made me feel special also, :kiss:
How cool it would be praising God together in person! I'm grateful we can do it here and learn and grow and get advice etc, though!
I'm hoping Deb visits in-law's again! ;) [Hi Deb!] Silly, but I've always thought after knowing her some day we would meet! Don't quite know why.

How awesome when you think about it that He gave us His Spirit, what wisdom indeed, knowing we couldn't be anything like He commands by ourselves.
I got to work this morning and had 11 pts, had most of them yesterday and they were all mostly elderly and helpless. I went to load my cart with linen and I was not a happy camper. I was mumbling and complaining to myself cause I know I can't do good care with so many and was so hoping for a better day today. Just feeling burnt out. Well I was almost finished and loading bottom shelf of cart and realized what I was doing. I was almost on floor to begin with and then I just knelt against cart and prayed for forgiveness for my attitude and prayed for His help to be like I should. Every time I think I have 'this walk' going pretty good He reminds me I can do nothing with out His help and I'm not as mature as I would like to be; :( was running late last 2 days and not having enough time to pray before work. Usually do at least in car but DH called me yesterday upset with something at his job and today he drove me cause he was off and we were discussing how his meeting went yesterday. I could have condensed this to say I need to seek Him a lot when stressed especially and spared you all the details. :lol: Some days I think I will never be like I want. :(I see improvement in some areas and have 'great' days or week then realize, man I'm still such a sinner. I sure do need constant fellowship still to stay afloat. My friend Cindy who is a Christian~~we always ask each other in morning if we prayed before getting here [job] to make it through the day with a good attitude. :)

Too tired and rambling and dozing too....Night! :kiss:


4 (http://bible.cc/john/15-4.htm) “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5 (http://bible.cc/john/15-5.htm) “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

beachbum53
Feb 6th 2008, 01:35 AM
After writing this, came back next day to edit but board was down.:eek:

Anyway I do struggle when sick and have much improvement to do in praising God then, instead I get frustrated and some depressed. This past month wore me down spiritually, not as strong as I would like.
Miss you all, :(

Kingsdaughter
Feb 6th 2008, 05:25 PM
Hi Laura, I'm struggling too with getting up early to pray, which is what I used to do, but lately I've been going through a trial in marriage that is taking alot out of me emotionally and is starting to affect me physically. I just feel drained and tired. Sorry for whining:) Dh is not a believer and I've been praying for him, but I'm growing a bit weary...just waiting. It's been 9 years and I know that's nothing compared to many of my sisters who have been married alot longer but I'm ready to throw in the towel!:(

VisionOfYou
Feb 6th 2008, 07:37 PM
Wow Trina, that must be so hard. Just wanted you to know I have been praying for you today. :hug: I speak peace and rest to your body, mind and spirit now in the name of Jesus. If you ever want to talk, I'm usually on here most of the workday (don't have internet at home). I have trouble getting up in the mornings, too - although my excuse is pretty lame - just not a morning person and 5:30 is so dark. :rolleyes:

beachbum53
Feb 6th 2008, 07:37 PM
Trina dear, I'm sorry. :kiss: I would never say you were whining; one thing here is we can encourage when situations arise, at least I would think we would all agree. Encourage, listen and pray. I will be praying for sure! I'm sorry you're worn out and feeling drained; being with three little ones' also is not easy especially with your mom so far away. :kiss: If you want to talk drop me or anyone a PM. I know someone told me you can chat with moderators' also. Brenda could probably tell you more on that. I'll be thinking and praying for you and husband. :hug: Try to do something nice for you, ok.


If there is any whining around here it's me anyway. :lol: Was hoping to post on Roman's, feeling tired too but mine is my drugs to make me feel better. :lol: ~head and neck~ I think, who knows, I think I have been tired since September, excluding few weeks. :rolleyes: Need to call lady I got to clean neighbor's house. :lol: I've been in kitchen all day, have to wipe everything off before putting anything away be it grocerys' or box of cereal I used. :crazy: Two weeks again not getting anything done, then what a mess.:giveup: Done whining. :lol:

:kiss:

Kingsdaughter
Feb 7th 2008, 12:56 AM
Thank you so much ladies:hug:Your encouragement and laughs:)are uplifting. I love you gals:kiss:

beachbum53
Feb 8th 2008, 03:11 AM
Sorry I haven't kept up with verses, posted last night and erased, thoughts not coming out right on 'paper'. Still bad headache and meds maybe.

Briefly I'll just say God doesn't care if we teach bible class, volunteer, attend church every day, get baptised, etc, if we aren't doing it out of love for Him with a true faith and desire to want to obey Him. We can't be at church every Sunday or twice a week or whatever and go home and don't live as He commands. Not help people, treat spouses badly, not think about Him till the next Sunday, pray and hold ourselves accountable and being repentant and so on.
We are right with God when we do the work of His Spirit from our hearts, that's what pleases Him. Back to the Jews Paul was talking about who thought they were better than the Gentiles because they were chosen, circumcised, and thought basically they were 'special'. In their hearts they were not honoring God at all by their thoughts and actions. Circumcision was an act of obedience for example baptism today but neither praises God if continuing in practices that one knows displeases God. We all sin still but if our heart is not sorrowful and repentent afterwards eventually we become indifferent to sin and indifferent to what God thinks. One can't get baptised and profess to loving Christ and continue to live the same as before. I think that's why unbelievers look at some 'Christians' today and call them hypocrites. Think that is what I would call the Jews Paul was speaking about.

Hope this is not too confusing but it was bothering me not to move on.
I'm tired, took muscle relaxers and vicadin so forgive my rambling but can't post 'good' lately on what I'm trying to say. Also my thoughts, not saying I'm right here.

Also got knocked against the wall few times at work today. :lol: wasn't laughing ATM. :rolleyes:

Debra praying and miss you much :hug: I haven't written cause don't want you to feel pressured or anything.

Kingsdaughter
Feb 8th 2008, 08:50 PM
Amen Laura, I absolutely agree. Paul was saying that to be a jew on the outside is not what counts it is to be one on the inside. Does that make sense? I believe that it is a matter of the heart and what is inside our hearts is what counts, which is what you had posted. Can I have some of your vicadin?:lol: My 2 year olds screams can break glass and all she wants is for my 3 year old to stop looking at her.:lol:

beachbum53
Feb 12th 2008, 09:55 PM
Can I have some of your vicadin?:lol: My 2 year olds screams can break glass and all she wants is for my 3 year old to stop looking at her.:lol:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: just to stop looking at her, oh my, God bless

Trina, thanks for your input, you said it much more to the point!


well here's beginning of chapter 3

1 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-1.htm) Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-2.htm) Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-3.htm) What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-4.htm) May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS,
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED.”

Debra R
Feb 13th 2008, 12:00 AM
:(Sorry ladies, work has kept me so frustrated and down in the dumps here lately :B. I've been emotionally drained. Enough whining :D, our Lord gives me the strength to keep going though. I don't know what I'd do without Him.

I've missed you ladies :hug:, I hope all is going well with everyone.

Trina, that is so funny, oh my, I remember those days too with my kids..and they would be the worst in the car while I was driving and couldn't reach them to give them a smack :D stop it! I'm glad they are grown. :D At least they listen now, well, most of the time. :)

Okay Laura :hug: I'm going to help now. :)

Debra R
Feb 13th 2008, 12:42 AM
You all have posted some great comments.

I was reading your comments and the last verses for chapter two and started thinking about one of the most important traits of a Christian.... being humble........ Just thinking on the relation with the "Law" versus a relationship with the Lord. In having a relationship with the Lord you are humbled. I mean just thinking about how awesome that the Lord God maker of heaven and earth desires to have a relationship with us...even that thought is humbling. And God exalts those who are humbled.


Luke 14:11 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I love this in 1 Peter......


1 Peter 5:5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for
" God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble."
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.

And even Jesus was humble......

Philippians 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.


Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Feb 13th 2008, 01:00 AM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: just to stop looking at her, oh my, God bless

Trina, thanks for your input, you said it much more to the point!


well here's beginning of chapter 3

1 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-1.htm) Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-2.htm) Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-3.htm) What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-4.htm) May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS,
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED.”


Geneva Study Bible
What {1} advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
(1) The first address to the Jews, or the first anticipating of an objection by the Jews: what then, are the Jews preferred no more than the Gentiles? Indeed, they are, says the apostle, by the doing of God, for he committed the tables of the covenant to them, so that the unbelief of a few cannot cause the whole nation without exception to be cast away by God, who is true, and who also uses their unworthiness to commend and set forth his goodness.

God called to Himself a people "The Jew" that He might show forth His goodness.
This may sound silly, but when I first read the old testament I would read and cry. I would cry over all the awesome things that God would do for His people and how they would always turn away from Him. It would break my heart. I saw His love for His people. One of my favorite Psalms just came to mind......

Psalm 103:6 The LORD executes righteousness
And justice for all who are oppressed.
7 He made known His ways to Moses,
His acts to the children of Israel.

8 The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
9 He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him;
12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

I love that Psalm.

I better go now.
Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

beachbum53
Feb 14th 2008, 02:47 AM
:(Sorry ladies, work has kept me so frustrated and down in the dumps here lately :B. I've been emotionally drained. Enough whining :D, our Lord gives me the strength to keep going though. I don't know what I'd do without Him.

:)

Well I sure missed you! :kiss:
Are you sure we don't work in the same place :lol: Oh my this weekend was so bad. I came home so frustrated I woke up next day depressed. Was off till today and driving to work 'hold me Jesus' came on radio and I started to cry..you know just tears. I've been so down with being sick and then headaches and work. So all day everytime I was stressed or loosing patience with some co-workers who don't know what team work is...I just said... hold me Jesus... cause I'm shaking like a leaf... you have been my king of glory.. won't you be my prince of peace. Anyway helped much!

I don't have much time now, have to iron and get ready for bed... much easier now [iron] than at 4:30 :lol: Just wanted to share above.

I will be back to read your posts Deb, thank you! :kiss:

VisionOfYou
Feb 15th 2008, 09:25 PM
Hi ladies! Sorry I've been slacking in posting this week. :blush:

Deb, I just have to ask - is that you in your profile picture? If so you don't look nearly old enough to have grown kids/grandchildren! :D

Laura, that's so true, having a song in my head during the day really helps me too. I'm so glad that I can listen to my mp3 player at work!

Ok, so just a couple of quick thoughts on the next verses and then back to work for me. :lol: I love verse 3, it can be seen time and time again throughout the OT. And the way he phrases it is that God has been faithful in the past and will continue to be faithful in the future. So much has happened to the Jews since that writing...and Israel is certainly a hot topic in the news today. We watched a presidential debate a while ago and it was interesting how important the subject of Israel was.

Hope you all have a wonderful weekend! :) :hug:

beachbum53
Feb 16th 2008, 02:09 AM
Geneva Study Bible
What {1} advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
(1) The first address to the Jews, or the first anticipating of an objection by the Jews: what then, are the Jews preferred no more than the Gentiles? Indeed, they are, says the apostle, by the doing of God, for he committed the tables of the covenant to them, so that the unbelief of a few cannot cause the whole nation without exception to be cast away by God, who is true, and who also uses their unworthiness to commend and set forth his goodness.

God called to Himself a people "The Jew" that He might show forth His goodness.
This may sound silly, but when I first read the old testament I would read and cry. I would cry over all the awesome things that God would do for His people and how they would always turn away from Him. It would break my heart. I saw His love for His people. One of my favorite Psalms just came to mind......

Psalm 103:6 The LORD executes righteousness
And justice for all who are oppressed.
7 He made known His ways to Moses,
His acts to the children of Israel.

8 The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
9 He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him;
12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

I love that Psalm.

I better go now.
Love you my sisters! :kiss::hug:

Sure doesn't sound silly Deb, sounds like you have a great love for The Father; yes that's a beautiful psalm.

God gave the Jewish people so many, many promises' but they were also told to love, obey, fear, and serve by walking in His ways. They were His chosen ones', how blessed were they; His Word was written to them.

Deuteronomy 4
1 (http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/4-1.htm) “Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you may live and go in and take possession of the land which the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 (http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/4-2.htm) “You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Isaiah 55
6 (http://bible.cc/isaiah/55-6.htm) Seek the LORD while He may be found;
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 (http://bible.cc/isaiah/55-7.htm) Let the wicked forsake his way
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
And let him return to the LORD,
And He will have compassion on him,
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

Plainly states the Jewish people had to be repentant of sin and be obedient.

As I wrote above about how blessed the Jews' were, well we are just as blessed for being His children. Brings to mind things I do that aren't as He commanded when I also have His Word. The Law sure does remind me how unworthy I am.
That's it for now, thanks girls :)

beachbum53
Feb 16th 2008, 02:39 AM
Hi ladies! Sorry I've been slacking in posting this week. :blush:

Deb, I just have to ask - is that you in your profile picture? If so you don't look nearly old enough to have grown kids/grandchildren! :D

Laura, that's so true, having a song in my head during the day really helps me too. I'm so glad that I can listen to my mp3 player at work!

Ok, so just a couple of quick thoughts on the next verses and then back to work for me. :lol: I love verse 3, it can be seen time and time again throughout the OT. And the way he phrases it is that God has been faithful in the past and will continue to be faithful in the future. So much has happened to the Jews since that writing...and Israel is certainly a hot topic in the news today. We watched a presidential debate a while ago and it was interesting how important the subject of Israel was.

Hope you all have a wonderful weekend! :) :hug:

Hi Rachel, nice to see you! :hug:

God will be faithful to Israel the nation. Just trying to learn the last year about the Jews, example, will they all return to their Father through Christ. I'm not knowledgeable about it all yet, but it's up to them to receive Christ. Right now I don't think they all will. Still rather confused if all will eventually. Help appreciated... :)

2Timothy 3:15 says the OT was sufficient in teaching the truth about salvation

15 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/3-15.htm) and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

VisionOfYou
Feb 18th 2008, 07:25 PM
Hi Rachel, nice to see you! :hug:

God will be faithful to Israel the nation. Just trying to learn the last year about the Jews, example, will they all return to their Father through Christ. I'm not knowledgeable about it all yet, but it's up to them to receive Christ. Right now I don't think they all will. Still rather confused if all will eventually. Help appreciated... :)

2Timothy 3:15 says the OT was sufficient in teaching the truth about salvation

15 (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/3-15.htm) and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Hi Laura! :hug: Well we are in the same boat - this is a rather recent topic of study for me, too. Part of it gets into end times stuff, which is a study in and of itself, lol! And I don't want to derail this thread, so maybe I should just stick to something more on topic. :lol: The beginning for me and what God used to really stir my heart for Israel was actually a message preached from Romans 10 and 11 (which we'll eventually get to :lol:...I'm looking forward to discussing it with you :)). I know there are a lot of people who believe that any promises that applied to Israel ended when Jesus came, because they rejected Him as Messiah. But from what I've seen of the nature of God throughout the OT, I can't agree with that. Rather that it's God's plan to unite Jew and Gentile, first by bringing the gospel to the Gentiles through the Jews, and eventually to bring the Jews to salvation through the Gentiles. I think that the passage you mentioned, about all Israel being saved, is a promise for the end...and it will be to show God's faithfulness and mercy, and for His glory. Anyway I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at or if I'm just rambling :rolleyes:, lol. Hope that wasn't too off topic! :blush:

Kingsdaughter
Feb 19th 2008, 07:46 AM
Hello dear sisters:kiss::hug:Thank you Father for the prayers of Your saints! Sorry I've been away, but I am so excited because you all are talking about Israel. I don't want to derail this thread either, but just within the past year and a half, the Lord has really been putting a desire in my heart to love the Jewish people and pray for the nation of Israel. What's up with that Lord?LOL:):D His word does not change and I don't understand alot but that's okay, I just have to believe Him and what He says in His word is true.

beachbum53
Feb 19th 2008, 01:29 PM
Hey girls, just wanted to say nice to see you both. :hug: I haven't studied much on the Jewish people, just did when it would 'pop' in my mind this last year. Think I will start Jeremiah or Daniel. :hmm:

VisionOfYou
Feb 19th 2008, 02:19 PM
Hello dear sisters:kiss::hug:Thank you Father for the prayers of Your saints! Sorry I've been away, but I am so excited because you all are talking about Israel. I don't want to derail this thread either, but just within the past year and a half, the Lord has really been putting a desire in my heart to love the Jewish people and pray for the nation of Israel. What's up with that Lord?LOL:):D His word does not change and I don't understand alot but that's okay, I just have to believe Him and what He says in His word is true.

Hey Trina, I've missed you! :hug: You know, it is so awesome to hear that you feel the same way, too, and to see God doing the same thing in the lives of believers all over the world. :pp Isaiah 62 has become one of my favorite passages. :lol:

Kingsdaughter
Feb 22nd 2008, 06:42 PM
God called to Himself a people "The Jew" that He might show forth His goodness.
This may sound silly, but when I first read the old testament I would read and cry. I would cry over all the awesome things that God would do for His people and how they would always turn away from Him. It would break my heart. I saw His love for His people. One of my favorite Psalms just came to mind......



That's not silly at all Deb, I agree with you. I totally see God's love for His people in the OT and how they would turn away from Him. I think of His mercy and love for us as well. There was a time when I walked away( or at least tried to) from the Lord. I look back and see His mercy and love for me, that even though I was miserable in my backslidden state, He still loved me and when I was sick of myself, I returned to the Lord and isn't it so amazing that He takes us back when we repent and forgives us and restores our soul and our relationship with Him. I love that Psalm you posted. When it says that as far as east is from the west so far has He removed our transgressions from us. That no matter how horrible our past(mine is pretty bad) through the blood of CHrist, we are made white as snow. Thank you Lord.

Kingsdaughter
Feb 22nd 2008, 06:53 PM
well here's beginning of chapter 3

1 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-1.htm) Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-2.htm) Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-3.htm) What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 (http://bible.cc/romans/3-4.htm) May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS,
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED.”

You know I read these verses and I see that God's word will never change and He will be faithful to what He has said in regards to the Jewish people and nation of Israel. But there are some here on the forums who don't believe that and say that after Jesus came and died and was resurrected,they say that some of the OT is null and void. Especially when it has to do with the nation of Israel and the Jewish people.

Debra R
Feb 26th 2008, 12:35 AM
Hi ladies! Sorry I've been slacking in posting this week. :blush:

Deb, I just have to ask - is that you in your profile picture? If so you don't look nearly old enough to have grown kids/grandchildren! :D


:hug:Ah Rachel Thank you! yep, that's me. I think that was taken about 3 years ago.



Laura, that's so true, having a song in my head during the day really helps me too. I'm so glad that I can listen to my mp3 player at work!

Ok, so just a couple of quick thoughts on the next verses and then back to work for me. :lol: I love verse 3, it can be seen time and time again throughout the OT. And the way he phrases it is that God has been faithful in the past and will continue to be faithful in the future. So much has happened to the Jews since that writing...and Israel is certainly a hot topic in the news today. We watched a presidential debate a while ago and it was interesting how important the subject of Israel was.

Hope you all have a wonderful weekend! :) :hug:

:(I'm sorry ladies, I have not been able to post any.
Back hurting too, so I'll have to go to my couch soon and lay down.

Keeping you all in my prayers. Love you! :hug:

beachbum53
Feb 26th 2008, 12:52 AM
Hey sis :pp
I'm working on verses and saw you here, had to open another window before you left to give you lots of :hug: and :kiss:.

I'm so sorry you hurt :cry: keep us updated PLEASE....making this short before you disappear :)

:kiss:


:pray: :pray:

Well I goofed and just lost my post....grr....

beachbum53
Feb 26th 2008, 02:05 PM
I had too many window's open and I lost my post last night... But here is an excellent link on verses three and four that I hope you will enjoy by Spurgeon. It's very long but I think worth studying.

Hope I do it right http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/jmannot.txt

It's like you said Trina, His word will never change even if no man agree's.

Debra R
Mar 21st 2008, 01:05 AM
Hi ladies! I hope everyone is doing okay. :hug:

I am so sorry, I just have not been able to get back into our study. A lot of things going on....... Looking forward to Easter. Easter is even more special to me now since Nathan's death. Because our Savior has risen and He lives! My Nathan lives too! Thank you beloved Savior!

I want to post some more verses. I almost forgot where we were :D. Romans 3. I think we're up to verse 5 :).
I decided to use the NIV, hope that's okay. If anyone wants to post with another version that's good too.

NIV Romans 3:5) But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7) Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8) Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

9) What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

Debra R
Mar 21st 2008, 01:25 AM
9) What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

In reading over the verses especially verse 9, I thought of my life before I realized my sinfulness. I was abounding in sin and not even bothered by it. Actually wallowing in my sin and my heart was hardened by it. I remember facing the ugliness of my sin as the Lord touched my heart and let me see. I was filled with remorse and shame as I saw the horribleness of my sin. I cried out to God to save me from my sin and make me His own. He cleansed me and made me anew. Oh what joy! Such a great weight lifted! And as I reflected I saw how my Savior had wooed me to Himself. Here is a verse that is very special to me.....this in the King James because that's where I first read it...Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

God is good!

Love you my sisters! :hug:

Debra R
Mar 26th 2008, 02:33 AM
:) Thought I would do a few more verses. I'm going to try and get back into our study. A lot of things have been going on. It seems there is always something :(. I hurt my back and have been going to physical therapy. I had a spinal fusion 4 years ago and hadn't had any trouble until now. Oh well, I will survive. :) I hope you ladies are doing okay. God's blessings to you. :hug:

Here are a few verses.......


(NKJ) Romans 3:10 As it is written:
" There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 " Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit";
" The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 " Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 " Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 " There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Cross references for verse 10....

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.

2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

Psalm 53:1 The fool has said in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity;
There is none who does good.

2 God looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 Every one of them has turned aside;
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

Love you my sisters :kiss::hug:

beachbum53
Mar 29th 2008, 03:10 AM
Thanks sis, :hug: Good posts!

I haven't had a lot of time to be on board either lately with some other obligations and my neck and head bothering me. Hey I like my neuro doc, want to see him. :lol: Hope work has been better for you with light duty. :hug: My good news, no surgery needed now. :pp Well you already know that...:lol:

Well what I see is Paul's opponents saying that what Paul was preaching that because of grace, they were still free to sin. The verses you posted 10-18 tells of natural mans' character, way of speaking and conduct.

No one except Jesus ever lived without sinning. It is impossible to be righteous by God's standard. Only by faith in Jesus Christ and God's grace can we be righteous in His eyes.

Matthew 5:48

48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


Natural man is spiritually ignorant, evil, can't comprehend His righteousness, foul words come from the mouth of those who don't have God's Spirit to guide, heart is hardened to sin. Rebellious..no fear of God


Psalm 10:7
His mouth is full of curses and deceit and oppression; Under his tongue is mischief and wickedness.

We learned about creation and our conscious 'seeing' God's glory but in natural mans' sinful nature the mind is dark and unwilling to see Him in a spiritual way or really wants to.

Ephesians 4:18
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;



1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

verse 18...no respecting The Holy God who demands reverence.

Dh was changing channels and I heard scripture and made him stop and watch, I can't remember when I watched a show at night. Anyway it was about two Christian girls and their families, one was killed in an accident and was mistaken with one who survived. What was nice was to listen to the families 'testimonies'. They were exhaulting The Holy One through their 'trials' and so were the girls siblings. Very 'nice'...Anyway I was sitting here watching and trying to think, not easy. :lol:

Too tired for more.....Debra I promise to go forward.....:hug:

Kingsdaughter
Apr 5th 2008, 06:49 PM
Hello my dear sisters. I'm so sorry I haven't been posting lately. I've missed you gals. Thank you all for your love and prayers.:hug:

I agree with you Laura, we are so helpless without Jesus. He is our righteousness. Romans 3:10-18 describes our miserable and pitiful state WITHOUT Christ to be our righteousness.

Isaiah 64:6 NKJV

But we are all like an unclean thing,And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

I think it's important to note that the verses say ALL. We all must come through Christ to be saved and yes Laura, we all receive righteousness through our faith in Him. There are many who say, well, I'm not as bad as that guy over there or I'm not as much a sinner as that person. Roman's 3:10-18 clearly says that we are ALL in the same boat! and Jesus is our Savior and our righteousness.

I love you sisters:hug:

beachbum53
Apr 10th 2008, 01:58 AM
Good to see you Trina, thanks for posting, :hug: It seems we all have had some 'setbacks' the last 6 weeks or so. I hope your family is healing some. :hug:
I have too many books 'open' and studying, wish I could spend the day doing it. I'll read next part of Romans and post, too tired from work now, just got home lil while ago.

Debra is having major problems with her back and can't post much now. She could use our prayers :pray:
Thanks ladies. :hug:

VisionOfYou
Apr 10th 2008, 03:59 PM
Hi ladies, I'm sorry to hear that things have been so rough for you lately! Saying a prayer for all of you. :hug:

What really gets me from the last passage is verse 11, that no one seeks after God because they don't understand. From my own experience I can definitely say that is true. It was when I began to understand His character, His emotions, and His love for me that I began to pursue Him. It just makes me so sad that there are so many people who would run to God if they only knew what He was like. :cry:

Kingsdaughter
Jun 11th 2008, 03:31 PM
Hello sisters! How is everyone? I thought I would post these next two verses in our study because I was reading in the book of Romans this morning.

Romans 3:19-20 NKJV

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. I like how this verse says that every mouth will be stopped. Stopped from what? From boasting, through the law we all become quilty before God. You ever try to obey all of His commandments and realize that you just can't? The bible says that if we break one, we break them all. I didn't know that I was quilty of some of the sins in my life, until I read God's word and His commandments and then I KNOW that I have sinned. And the more I try to change myself by obeying His law,that I may justify myself before Him, I fail. Praise God that I don't have to work for my salvation and that He provided for me a way to be justified and that was by HIs grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

miepie
Jun 11th 2008, 05:39 PM
Hiya Trina, :hug:

I am joining in too if I may...... but all I have to say at this moment is that I agree with your post! :hug:

Love you,
Mieke :kiss:

Ninna
Jun 11th 2008, 06:23 PM
I'm glad you got this thread going again!:hug: I think we all had so much going on for the last 2 or 3 months, this study got buried......

VisionOfYou
Jun 12th 2008, 02:20 PM
Hey Trina! Thanks for starting this up again! :)

V.20 - "the knowledge of sin" - that seems like the knowledge of good and evil. It was the knowledge of good and evil that separated man from God in the first place, that made him aware of his nakedness and caused him to hide from God. And so it is with sin - it's shameful, which is ok if that leads to repentance and dependance on God, but too often the tendency is to hide it or to point fingers and produce a bunch of rules in order to fix it ourselves.

I find God's response so interesting - "Who told you that you were naked?" - it's like He's saying "It certainly wasn't me!" It makes me think of Jesus when He was on earth and how He would associate with the "sinners", as if to say "You'll never hear from Me (God!) that you're not good enough."

V. 20 also says the law was never meant to justify; it's purpose was to point to Jesus and show us our need for Him. The knowledge of good and evil will destroy; it's the knowledge of God that we need. :) I hope that's making sense - I don't mean that we aren't responsible for our own actions...of course we are but we don't have to do it in our own strength. I love Psalm 71:1-3:

"In You, O Lord, do I take refuge; let me never be put to shame! In Your righteousness deliver me and rescue me; incline Your ear to me and save me! Be to me a rock of refuge, to which I may continually come; You have given the command to save me, for You are my rock and my fortress."

It's about the righteousness of God, not our ability to follow a set of rules - that is so liberating! :lol:

Kingsdaughter
Jun 13th 2008, 02:05 PM
Hi Rachel, it is indeed very liberating and what you said makes perfect sense.:hug:

Still in One Peace
Jun 13th 2008, 04:17 PM
Hi ladies, I'm sorry to hear that things have been so rough for you lately! Saying a prayer for all of you. :hug:

What really gets me from the last passage is verse 11, that no one seeks after God because they don't understand. From my own experience I can definitely say that is true. It was when I began to understand His character, His emotions, and His love for me that I began to pursue Him. It just makes me so sad that there are so many people who would run to God if they only knew what He was like. :cry:


So true. And also there are those people who really do know what God is like but because He is so amazing they doubt it could be real. They are so used to expecting the worst that someone so amazing can't possibly by real and trust worthy to them.


Also my bible's translation of vs. 20 is: "For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are."
It makes me think of all the people i've talked to at work who insist they are "good people" because they haven't stolen or cheated or murdered and they pay their bills on time, don't litter, advocate for saving the whales and try just to be nice to their fellow man. God is really trying to get through our pride in this verse. Because He knows how easily it can cut us off from Him.

And i hope its ok that i just jumped in here. i don't want to interrupt.

Kingsdaughter
Jun 13th 2008, 04:38 PM
Hi Heather!!!Nice to have you with us:hug: I agree with you, pride is so deceptive, isn't it? Unforgiveness, pride, jealousy, bitterness and lustful thoughts are all just as sinful as stealing and murder, it's just that these sins are sometimes masked and hidden in the heart.

Kingsdaughter
Jun 27th 2008, 01:13 AM
Hi everyone, I hope it's okay that I post the last 10 verses of Romans chapter 3. I have been going through a very difficult trial the past couple of weeks and I have found that being committed to a bible study, even if it's online, helps me to stay connected with reading His word, because it forces me to not only read, but to study it, when sometimes all I want to do is think about the "trial" that I am facing. Know what I mean? Okay so here are the verses.

Romans 3:21-31 NKJV

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%203:21-31;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-28008a)] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

I'm having a hard time understanding verse 25, when it says that "in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed" is He talking about everyone who died before Jesus' death and resurrection? That their sins were "passed over" what does that mean? What happened to them? did they go to heaven? or hell? Were they kept in a special place until after Christ died and was raised?

VisionOfYou
Jun 30th 2008, 10:10 PM
Hi everyone, I hope it's okay that I post the last 10 verses of Romans chapter 3. I have been going through a very difficult trial the past couple of weeks and I have found that being committed to a bible study, even if it's online, helps me to stay connected with reading His word, because it forces me to not only read, but to study it, when sometimes all I want to do is think about the "trial" that I am facing. Know what I mean? Okay so here are the verses.

Romans 3:21-31 NKJV

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%203:21-31;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-28008a)] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

I'm having a hard time understanding verse 25, when it says that "in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed" is He talking about everyone who died before Jesus' death and resurrection? That their sins were "passed over" what does that mean? What happened to them? did they go to heaven? or hell? Were they kept in a special place until after Christ died and was raised?

I am so sorry to hear that, Trina. :hug: But it sounds like you have a good support system in place. :D Feel free to post all you want - I, for one, love this study! I too am really needing the Word right now as I haven't been feeling well enough/had enough energy to do anything but drag myself to work - so no church/church friends. :cry: But in a way it's been good...sometimes you just need to be alone with God, ya know? :)

Paul sure does have a knack for expressing huge concepts in tiny little phrases, doesn't he? :lol: Here are a couple of other translations:

Amplified:
Whom God put forward [before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment.

NLT:
For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

That second one especially is a lot easier to understand! :lol: God was able to "pass over" the sins of those who believed in Jesus but who died before His death and resurrection because He is not confined to time. Then when the event actually happened in time, it "proved" His righteousness. I don't think anyone who trusted in God ever went to hell - more likely they were in Sheol (the grave) until Jesus defeated death and brought them to heaven.

I also wonder if it's a reference to Passover itself and what it stood for and how Jesus fulfilled it. :hmm:

Kingsdaughter
Jul 1st 2008, 03:16 PM
I am so sorry to hear that, Trina. :hug: But it sounds like you have a good support system in place. :D Feel free to post all you want - I, for one, love this study! I too am really needing the Word right now as I haven't been feeling well enough/had enough energy to do anything but drag myself to work - so no church/church friends. :cry: But in a way it's been good...sometimes you just need to be alone with God, ya know? :)

Paul sure does have a knack for expressing huge concepts in tiny little phrases, doesn't he? :lol: Here are a couple of other translations:

Amplified:
Whom God put forward [before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment.

NLT:
For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

That second one especially is a lot easier to understand! :lol: God was able to "pass over" the sins of those who believed in Jesus but who died before His death and resurrection because He is not confined to time. Then when the event actually happened in time, it "proved" His righteousness. I don't think anyone who trusted in God ever went to hell - more likely they were in Sheol (the grave) until Jesus defeated death and brought them to heaven.

I also wonder if it's a reference to Passover itself and what it stood for and how Jesus fulfilled it. :hmm:

That makes perfect sense and thank you so much for the encouragement.:hug: Ah yes, morning sickness and fatigue:D I know that all too well. I feel your pain, but soon you will be able to enjoy it, the second trimester was my favorite part because your not sick anymore and your not too big(third trimester) so your able to move around and begin to feel the little one kicking:hug:

That's an interesting point you make about the Passover:hmm: I will have to look into that one, let me know if you come up with anything:) Love you girl!

VisionOfYou
Jul 1st 2008, 07:54 PM
Aw, I love you too! :hug: :)

I looked it up in my Strong's, and the phrase there is "remission of sins" (KJV), and "passing over" is included as a definition. I was just wondering because my pastor taught once about how Jesus fulfilled all the requirements for the Passover lamb (and how all of the feasts were meant to be pictures of things to come). It was really interesting, like how the lamb was inspected for 4 days before it was killed to make sure there were no blemishes, and Jesus was questioned or inspected for 4 days by the religious leaders, who could find no fault with Him. And the way the lamb was killed and the timeline by which it was done mirrored that of Jesus' death during Passover. Paul, as a student of the law, would have known all that - so, I'm not really sure if it was really intended to be a reference to all of that, but it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. :lol:

Debra R
Dec 5th 2008, 12:17 PM
:) I was just re-reading this thread. What an excellent thread! Very encouraging and inspiring. You ladies made this an awesome study! Now I want to start this again. :) And I miss you all too! :hug:

We started this last year in November. I guess we can pick it up a year later. :D I finished the first chapter of Philippians so we could start this again too and maybe bounce back and forth?

Trina posted
NKJV Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


Rachael posted some excellent comments. I think I will do the last verses and then we could start a new thread for chapter 4. Sound good? :)

I am sorry ladies for not continuing this thread. Laura has been going through tough times too. And me I've just been stuck in my grief. It's just been so hard. I feel as if I'm finally coming out of it and getting stronger. At least I hope. There are still bad days but I am much better than I was. Thank you Lord Jesus!

Okay last verses :)...

NKJV Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.


Blessings! :kiss::hug:

Debra R
Dec 6th 2008, 02:38 PM
This from the Adam Clarke commentary...



This chapter contains a fine and striking synopsis of the whole Christian system. The wretched state of man is awfully exhibited, from the 10th to the 18th verse; Romans 3:10-18 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+3:10-18)and the plan of salvation, in the 24th, 25th, and 26th verses. Romans 3:24-26 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=ro+3:24-26) A pious writer calls these the Catechism of Christian Righteousness. The following points in this catechism are worthy of high consideration-viz. How is God glorified in us, and we in him?-By his GRACE. What does his grace work in us?-True holiness. Upon what motive?-Because it is pleasing to him. By whom does he give us salvation?-By Jesus Christ. How has Christ obtained this for us?-By redeeming us. What price did he give?-His BLOOD. What does his blood effect?-It reconciles us to God. How is it applied?-By FAITH. Who has given this victim of reconciliation?-

God the Father. Why did he choose these means?-To confound the false righteousness of the Gentiles; to abolish the FIGURATIVE righteousness of the Jews; and to establish his own. What does this grace of God perform?-It pardons sin and purifies the heart. For whom is this designed?-For all mankind, both Jews and Gentiles. To whom are these blessings actually communicated?-To all who repent, turn from their sin, and believe on the Lord Jesus. Why did not God make known this grand method of salvation sooner? 1. To make it the more valued: 2. To show his fidelity in the performance of his promises: and, 3. To make known the virtue and efficacy of the blood of Christ, which sanctifies the present, extends its influence to the past, and continues the availing sacrifice and way of salvation to all future ages.
3. On considering this glorious scheme of salvation, there is great danger, lest, while we stand amazed at what was done FOR us, we neglect what must be done IN us. Guilt in the conscience and sin in the heart ruin the man. Pardon in the conscience and Christ in the heart save the soul. Christ has done much to save us, and the way of salvation is made plain; but, unless he justify our conscience from dead works, and purify our hearts from all sin, his passion and death will profit us nothing. While we boast in Christ Jesus, let us see that our rejoicing, καυχησις, our boasting, be this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have our conversation in the world, 2 Corinthians 1:12 (http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=2co+1:12).



4. We must beware of Antinomianism; that is, of supposing that, because Christ has been obedient unto death, there is no necessity for our obedience to his righteous commandments. If this were so, the grace of Christ would tend to the destruction of the law, and not to its establishment. He only is saved from his sins who has the law of God written in his heart; and he alone has the law written in his heart who lives an innocent, holy, and useful life. Wherever Christ lives he works: and his work of righteousness will appear to his servants, and its effect will be quietness and assurance for ever. The life of God in the soul of man is the principle which saves and preserves eternally.