PDA

View Full Version : The Trasfiguration



GothicAngel
Nov 13th 2007, 01:53 PM
In the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeard with Jesus.
I remember lots of times when people from heaven appear to man (angels all I think), but since Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus' Resurrection, they couldnt have been in heaven.

Is there any other instance in the bible where God (not sorcery) caused a nonsaved person to appear?

Teke
Nov 13th 2007, 02:49 PM
Is there any other instance in the bible where God (not sorcery) caused a nonsaved person to appear?

Would you call angels "nonsaved persons"?

Wintermute
Nov 13th 2007, 02:55 PM
In the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeard with Jesus.
I remember lots of times when people from heaven appear to man (angels all I think), but since Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus' Resurrection, they couldnt have been in heaven.Why not? Enoch was taken to Heaven. Elijah was taken up in a fiery chariot, where else than to Heaven. Moses is resurrected based on Jude and the transfiguration, but he wasn't wandering around the earth.

VerticalReality
Nov 13th 2007, 03:12 PM
I remember lots of times when people from heaven appear to man (angels all I think), but since Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus' Resurrection, they couldnt have been in heaven.

I believe the doctrine saying there was some kind of holding place apart from heaven for the Old Testament saints is false.

Illumined
Nov 13th 2007, 04:09 PM
In the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeard with Jesus.
I remember lots of times when people from heaven appear to man (angels all I think), but since Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus' Resurrection, they couldnt have been in heaven.

Is there any other instance in the bible where God (not sorcery) caused a nonsaved person to appear?

(Phil 1:21-23);
For me to live is Christ and to die is gain ... For I am in a strait between the two, having a desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better ...
Ecclesiastes 12
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

The words of Stephen when he died.
Acts 7:59 "....Lord Jesus, recieve my spirit."

2 cor 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 5
10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.
1 Thessalonians 4
14.... we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven,
Jude 1:14
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zechariah 14:5
5..and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Saint ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snt)
A person who has died and gone to heaven.
2 Kings 2:1
When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven...

Nothing is too hard for God

Alaska
Nov 13th 2007, 04:45 PM
Mark 12
26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Jesus is saying here that Abraham is alive.
Sleeping in the dust awaiting for the resurrection? Or did he ressurect immediately after Jesus' resurrection and was one of those saints so ressurected then, who were seen by many in Jerusalem? I lean toward the latter.
The fact that he appeared to Jesus before he died: well, if he was sleeping and God woke him and Elijah up to encourage Jesus for the task at hand, that could also make sense.
What thinkest thou?

Peaced Together
Nov 14th 2007, 02:07 AM
Old Testament saints were saved because they believed that promised Christ would come. New Testament saints are saved because we believe that Christ did come.

Either way salvation is a matter of believing what God has said.

Moses and Elijah were in Paradise prior to the ascention of Jesus to His Father which is when He led the OT saints into the presence of the Father.

(shifting gears for a second)

Question:

did Moses ever recieve the promise of entering into the Promised Land?

PT

Alaska
Nov 14th 2007, 02:32 AM
Moses and Elijah were in Paradise prior to the ascention of Jesus to His Father which is when He led the OT saints into the presence of the Father.


I don't understand the above statement. You say Jesus led OT saints into the presence of God when he ascended (which ascension is recorded in Acts 1)?


Question:

did Moses ever recieve the promise of entering into the Promised Land?

No, I think it is in Deut.

Peaced Together
Nov 14th 2007, 03:01 AM
concerning Moses and Elijah - I will answer you but I'm going to need a little time to get everything together. This is going to require some clarification in order for it to be understood. I am glad for this to be called into question.

thanx
-

Answer:

Yes. Moses did recieve the promise (on the Mount of Transfiguration).

Steven3
Nov 14th 2007, 07:56 AM
Hi Gothic Angel :)
Is there any other instance in the bible where God (not sorcery) caused a nonsaved person to appear?

1. Saul of Tarsus appeared to Annanias
2. A man of Macedonia appeared to Paul

neither of them were "saved" at the time.
God bless :)
S



Other threads on the Transfiguration:

Heaven without Jesus? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=103328)
Transfiguration (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=102961)
What kind of afterlife do you belive in? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=100988)
Matthew 16:28 - What does this mean ? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=98868)
Transfiguration Question (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=47105)
Enoch and Elijah (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=101069)
Poll: A letter from Elijah after he had been taken up? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=101274)

Soj
Nov 14th 2007, 08:58 AM
In the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeard with Jesus.
I remember lots of times when people from heaven appear to man (angels all I think), but since Moses and Elijah appeared before Jesus' Resurrection, they couldnt have been in heaven.This was a supernatural event, it was called a "vision" (Matthew 17:9) and they were both said to have "appeared in glory" (Luke 9:31) which would be the closest you would get to heaven. But again, this was identified as a vision so the "in heaven or not" point is not applicable.