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Kingsdaughter
Nov 19th 2007, 04:09 PM
Okay, my husband makes the money and we have a joint account. he doesn't want to give $5 let alone $500 to tithe and offerings. So I'm kinda stuck, because I don't know how I'm going to give, if the hubby doesn't approve...which leads me to my next question. The Lord has promised to provide ALL of our needs according to His glorious riches in Jesus Christ. So He will provide for me, even if I dont give in tithe and offerings?

Love in Him,
Trina

Brother Mark
Nov 19th 2007, 04:22 PM
Hi Trina. God also promised that if we seek his kingdom first and his righteousness, that he would supply our needs (Matt 6:33). If your husband does not allow a gift, then the Lord knows your heart. Seek his kingdom and ask the Lord to give you something that you might give him back in return. For in the end, it is from him, through him and unto Him.

Blessings!

Kingsdaughter
Nov 20th 2007, 09:58 PM
Hi Trina. God also promised that if we seek his kingdom first and his righteousness, that he would supply our needs (Matt 6:33). If your husband does not allow a gift, then the Lord knows your heart. Seek his kingdom and ask the Lord to give you something that you might give him back in return. For in the end, it is from him, through him and unto Him.

Blessings!

Hello Mark,

Your right! Thank you for reminding me of that scripture verse. I was feeling guilty because I heard a pastor say that if I don't tithe or give an offering that I was stealing from God:(and I don't want to steal from Him. I will seek His kingdom and ask Him to give me something that I might give back in return...thanks again brother.:hug:

DavidCJ
Nov 26th 2007, 08:34 PM
Okay, my husband makes the money and we have a joint account. he doesn't want to give $5 let alone $500 to tithe and offerings. So I'm kinda stuck, because I don't know how I'm going to give, if the hubby doesn't approve...which leads me to my next question. The Lord has promised to provide ALL of our needs according to His glorious riches in Jesus Christ. So He will provide for me, even if I dont give in tithe and offerings?

Love in Him,
Trina

In a way you have already answered your own question. You are asking if you should tithe...therefore God has obviously provided, because otherwise you'd have nothing to give. :)

I have NEVER read in the bible that God doesn't give unless we give. It does say that if we give we can expect more. So in giving one is to expect to have more than the usual, but you don't need to give in order to receive from God. I can remember donating money and having extra money come into my house. The bible says give and it shall be given unto you good measure... However, God has promised to take care of his children no matter what, because he said that he would never leave us nor forsake us. We love our children and provide for them whether they are on their best behavior or not...because we love them and God does the same. Think of Jesus on that cross what could we have given to receive such a gift? God has always provided for me and my family...whether I had anything to give or not. I can remember at a young age literally coming into thousands of dollars and I didn't give anything to receive that money. God is good all the time and all the time God is good!

Tithing is a big issue in the church...MOST christians have different view points on it. I will not tell anyone to give 10% of their earnings to their church...I tell them to give as much as they can afford. And when they can afford to give more...give more than 10%...but give according to how God has prospered you. Many times we expect more from ourselves than God does.;)

2Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

...just something for you to consider...:idea: ...stay in prayer and trust in God. Be Blessed!

Kingsdaughter
Nov 26th 2007, 08:59 PM
You are so right DavidCj in that God gave Jesus His Son for us as a sacrifice for our sins, giving us eternal life and so many other blessings that I know I did not deserve and I gave Him absolutely nothing to receive such a wonderful gift(Jesus). Now I'm going to pray that the Lord give me something to give back, not because I feel guilty or obligated, but because I love Him!!!! and I thank Him for everything that He has done for me...Oh praise the Lord! God bless you sister!

Friend of I AM
Nov 26th 2007, 09:42 PM
Okay, my husband makes the money and we have a joint account. he doesn't want to give $5 let alone $500 to tithe and offerings. So I'm kinda stuck, because I don't know how I'm going to give, if the hubby doesn't approve...which leads me to my next question. The Lord has promised to provide ALL of our needs according to His glorious riches in Jesus Christ. So He will provide for me, even if I dont give in tithe and offerings?

Love in Him,
Trina

You know, it's an interesting that you mention this as I was thinking about this the other day myself. I think tithes and offerrings today are probably better served helping out those who are less fortunate inside and outside of the church. I know some churches already have money set aside for donations and whatnot, I just think a lot of the large Churches nowadays really don't need as much of our money - particularly those that have become mega-business conglomerates and when that money can be better served giving to those who truly need it.

So some alternatives might be giving money to charity once a month, giving to a less fortunate family member, etc. Perhaps your husband will agree to those things....I need to start giving more of the money the Lord has blessed me with to charity as well, particularly nowadays since I have been blessed so abundantly.

karenoka27
Nov 26th 2007, 09:47 PM
First I want to say that I believe we should give to our local church before outside ministries..with that said, I am in a similar situation. My husband doesn't go to church and I don't work...but I do pay the bills. I went to him with an amount and asked him if I could give this much to the church..he said, "That much?" then he said, "if you can still pay the bills."
Giving comes from your heart..you pray..you ask the Lord to soften your husband's heart...and whatever he says that he is comfortable with..then you be obedient and give that much..even it were but $5. The Lord would be pleased with you subjecting yourself to your husbands authority. I know I have been blessed for it. I'm going on 25 years of marriage..24 of them I have been a Christian going to church without my husband most of the time.

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 16th 2009, 05:13 PM
I was listening to a very respectable preacher on the radio the other day, on one of those call-in apologetics shows, and he said something that i thought was very disturbing and unscriptural.

Someone called in saying that they were having money problems, and if God would be upset if they stopped tithing for a while, until they could get their bills caught-up. The preacher said something to the avail of "Well, God gave you the ability to work, and He could take away that ability, too, and I wouldn't want to take that chance if I were you."

I thought that was a terrible response -- nowhere in the Bible does it say that God will put a curse on you if you stop tithing. I believe that it is our Christian duty to tithe, but I also don't think that the Lord wants to scare us into it.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 05:36 PM
I believe that it is our Christian duty to tithe
Tithing stopped when old Israel split into two. It was a 'tax' to support the Levites.

Every last red cent that Christians have in their possession belongs to God, and is used in his service.

Vhayes
Aug 16th 2009, 05:54 PM
Tithing stopped when old Israel split into two. It was a 'tax' to support the Levites.

Every last red cent that Christians have in their possession belongs to God, and is used in his service.
I agree -

And it isn't just the money - it's the coat, the car, the house, the meal, the whatever. It's ALL His. i am just the steward.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 05:54 PM
I agree -

And it isn't just the money - it's the coat, the car, the house, the meal, the whatever. It's ALL His. i am just the steward.
Amen.


...................

livingwaters
Aug 16th 2009, 06:07 PM
The Lord looks at our hearts....this is how HE sees us....if, in your heart you want to tithe and do right by the Lord, but your husband doesn't, just know that the Lord knows YOUR heart...you are responsible for your spiritual life I found this article on a website (bible.com) that I use constantly..it is full of answers based on scripture:

Questions and/or Statements:
Number 1: "The tithe was instituted under the law and we are no longer under the law."

My Answer: The tithe came before the law was given as Abraham tithed unto Melchizedek in Genesis 14:18-20. It was required during the law (Malachi 3:10). It was also after the law (Hebrews 5:6-7). Jesus is the Lord of the tithe forever after the order of Melchizedek. In Matthew 23:23 in the New Testament, Jesus plainly states that you should tithe and not leave the other (good works) undone.

The tithe has worked before the law, it has worked during the law and it is working after the law.
My question: "If the tithe worked during the law; what will it do – under grace?
Number 2: "Since tithing is under the law and we are not under the law anymore, we should not have to tithe."

My Answer: Under the law, we are told, "Thou shall not kill." Would you kill someone because you are not under the law anymore? … Of course not.

Don’t check your brains at the door. If the tithe belongs to God then “The tithe is holy unto the Lord and all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tress, it is the Lord's, it is holy unto the Lord" (Leviticus 27:30).
Number 3: "To avoid paying tithes prevents us from receiving a blessing. The tithe was given to us so that the blessing of God could enter this earth."

My Answer: Who does not want the blessings of God?

My question: Why are so many people trying to keep the blessing of God out of this earth?
The people that tithe don’t get angry with those that don’t tithe, but many that don’t tithe attack those that do.
Also, the person that is not saved (born again), will many times get put out with the one that is. One that has not been baptized into the Spirit of God gets upset with those that have been, and say that it is not of God. So it is with people who do not tithe, they state that it is not of God because they do not tithe. It is the same way with deliverance and divine healing, those that have not received, many times persecute those that have. (Galatians 4:28-29)
Number 4: "Jesus gave us an eleventh commandment that, We should love the Lord with all our heart, mind, strength and to love our neighbors as ourselves. He never said anything about accusing them, in fact Revelation 12:11 states that Satan is the accuser of the brother."

My Answer: I have never heard of any "born again" man or woman get upset because the preacher ministers on being "born again." I have never heard a thither get upset because the preacher ministers on the tithe; it is always those that do not tithe that get upset.

I am told that 20% of Christians tithe regularly, if that is true 80% of Christian feel uncomfortable with the subject.
I am so very thankful for the founders of this web site who have a backbone to stand for what is right and not just go along with the majority.
Jesus was not always popular with those in His day and He said that you should tithe, why can't we just take Him at His Word?
The scripture states, “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives Life." Some people get very legalistic about the tithe on both sides of the issue. One, by preaching that you should tithe or you will be under the curse, while others say we do not have to tithe, as we are under grace.
The real truth is that when applied with the right Spirit (motive) the tithe works every time and will produce blessings in your life.
1. Right motive
2. Right information
3. Right methods
These three things will guarantee that the promises of God in His Word will be yours because of your obedience to give and tithe.

God bless you!:hug:

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 06:11 PM
Ifound this article on a website that I use constantly..it is full of answers based on scripture
It's full of eisegesis, deceptive logic. The man who tells you that you must give 10% to God tells you that you can keep 90% for yourself.

Vhayes
Aug 16th 2009, 06:17 PM
Number 4: "Jesus gave us an eleventh commandment that, We should love the Lord with all our heart, mind, strength and to love our neighbors as ourselves. He never said anything about accusing them, in fact Revelation 12:11 states that Satan is the accuser of the brother."
My Answer: I have never heard of any "born again" man or woman get upset because the preacher ministers on being "born again." I have never heard a thither get upset because the preacher ministers on the tithe; it is always those that do not tithe that get upset.

I am told that 20% of Christians tithe regularly, if that is true 80% of Christian feel uncomfortable with the subject.
I am so very thankful for the founders of this web site who have a backbone to stand for what is right and not just go along with the majority.
Jesus was not always popular with those in His day and He said that you should tithe, why can't we just take Him at His Word?


Well - now you have. I do NOT tithe. I freely give because I freely received. the tithe was a tax. I do not owe that tax.

But I'll compare my "giving" to yours if you like and at the risk of sounding as though I'm bragging (which is NOT my intention) I'll almost guarantee you that my percentage will be higher than yours. And that's not counting meals, food, clothing, filling out paperwork for people, etc. That's just money.

I detest the strong arm tactics used by some preachers. "God will take away your health if you don't send your money to me." Why? Because god loves them more than he loves the congregation? Give me a break.

chisel
Aug 16th 2009, 06:17 PM
Hello Mark,

Your right! Thank you for reminding me of that scripture verse. I was feeling guilty because I heard a pastor say that if I don't tithe or give an offering that I was stealing from God:(and I don't want to steal from Him. I will seek His kingdom and ask Him to give me something that I might give back in return...thanks again brother.:hug:

Hi kingsdaughter,

I believe that your pastor may be deceiving you. There is no command in the Bible instructing Christians under the New Covenant to give ten percent of their money to a church.

The passage in Malachi is directed that the priesthood of Israel, not to Christians under the new covenant.

The Law of tithing (that Malachi refers to aswell) is given in Deut. 14 and it's quite specific.

Tithing never consisted of money.

Only those benefitting from the land, in other words farmers, were required to tithe. Cobblers, wine makers, bakers, clothing makers, jewellers, carpenters, etc. were never required to tithe according to the Bible.

Those giving the tithe consumed their tithe at the feast of booths. Only every third year was the tithe in it's entirety given to the priests and the poor.

Unfortunately many churches these days never even touch on these subjects, they go straight for Malachi, so that you would feel guilty.

Dear, kingsdaughter. You are not robbing God at all and neither you nor your husband owe God a tithe.

Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
(Deu 14:22-29)

Notice that the tithe was consumed by the tither. It was a feast, not a means to cover the expenses of the prieshood.

Please don't feel guilty about having to pay God back. We cannot, we have been purchased freely. What would we give to God that isn't His to begin with? There is nothing we can give back that'll ever pay for what He did for us, so please don't be pressurised into "giving back to God". That is nothing more than manipulation if you're being told you have to give something back to God.

God bless

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 16th 2009, 06:25 PM
I'm really, really glad that I bumped this topic back up, you guys, because I don't have a lot of money, and oftentimes, I will use some of my tithe money to help certain Christian ministries, like the Bible League and Compassion International, just because I feel led by the Spirit to do so -- and it's great to have confirmation that I'm not doing the wrong thing.

Or, I will give some of my tithe to someone whom I feel really needs it. If I had the $$, I would give in addition to my tithe.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 06:26 PM
Notice that the tithe was consumed by the tither. It was a feast, not a means to cover the expenses of the prieshood.
'"Every third year give the tithe—a tenth of your crops—to the Levites, the foreigners, the orphans, and the widows, so that in every community they will have all they need to eat"' Deut 26:12 (GNB)


Otherwise agreed.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 06:28 PM
I'm really, really glad that I bumped this topic back up, you guys, because I don't have a lot of money, and oftentimes, I will use some of my tithe money to help certain Christian ministries, like the Bible League and Compassion International, just because I feel led by the Spirit to do so -- and it's great to have confirmation that I'm not doing the wrong thing.

Or, I will give some of my tithe to someone whom I feel really needs it. If I had the $$, I would give in addition to my tithe.
Your tithe is in your own imagination.

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 16th 2009, 06:28 PM
'"Every third year give the tithe—a tenth of your crops—to the Levites, the foreigners, the orphans, and the widows, so that in every community they will have all they need to eat"' Deut 26:12 (GNB)


Otherwise agreed.

Yes, but that is to help the poor -- not tithing to a church

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 06:30 PM
Yes, but that is to help the poor -- not tithing to a church
Where is the NT command to tithe to the church? Or to the poor?

chisel
Aug 16th 2009, 06:34 PM
'"Every third year give the tithe—a tenth of your crops—to the Levites, the foreigners, the orphans, and the widows, so that in every community they will have all they need to eat"' Deut 26:12 (GNB)


Otherwise agreed.



Those giving the tithe consumed their tithe at the feast of booths. Only every third year was the tithe in it's entirety given to the priests and the poor.

That's what I said :) Sorry I phrased it badly. I agree with you. Every third year the priests as well as the poor got the full tithe.

chisel
Aug 16th 2009, 06:40 PM
I'm really, really glad that I bumped this topic back up, you guys, because I don't have a lot of money, and oftentimes, I will use some of my tithe money to help certain Christian ministries, like the Bible League and Compassion International, just because I feel led by the Spirit to do so -- and it's great to have confirmation that I'm not doing the wrong thing.

Or, I will give some of my tithe to someone whom I feel really needs it. If I had the $$, I would give in addition to my tithe.

God identifies Himself with the poor and the downtrodden. By giving to those, THAT is how you give to God.

I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
(Mat 25:43-45)

So basically, you're doing the right thing and you have nothing to feel guilty about, in fact, you're doing what the Spirit leads you to do, and you have confirmation from the word of God that you're doing the right thing.

chisel
Aug 16th 2009, 06:44 PM
Yes, but that is to help the poor -- not tithing to a church

Exactly.

I'm about to say something harsh, but I don't believe it's unwarranted.

Those pastors who teach that one should give tithes to the church in order to give to God, they are the ones robbing God.

This is a subject that is very dear to me, because I see a lot of wrong being done. I have no problem with churches collecting money to stay alive, but don't twist scripture and don't abuse peoples emotions. It is wrong!

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 16th 2009, 07:03 PM
I know that a lot of pastors live in very nice homes. I am not condemning them for that, as that is not up to me, but I always thought it would be nice if a church would have sort of salary caps, the pastors live in moderate homes, and any money that was tithed that went over this was given back to the congregation in some way.

Butch5
Aug 16th 2009, 07:19 PM
Okay, my husband makes the money and we have a joint account. he doesn't want to give $5 let alone $500 to tithe and offerings. So I'm kinda stuck, because I don't know how I'm going to give, if the hubby doesn't approve...which leads me to my next question. The Lord has promised to provide ALL of our needs according to His glorious riches in Jesus Christ. So He will provide for me, even if I dont give in tithe and offerings?

Love in Him,
Trina

HI Kingsdaughter,

There is no New Testament commandment to tithe. Paul said God loves a cheerful giver.


2 Corinthians 9:6-8 ( NKJV )
But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

This is also how the early church understood the apostles teaching. However they gave everything they could, even if it was not monetarily.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 07:21 PM
I know that a lot of pastors live in very nice homes. I am not condemning them for that, as that is not up to me, but I always thought it would be nice if a church would have sort of salary caps, the pastors live in moderate homes, and any money that was tithed that went over this was given back to the congregation in some way.
Pastors should have jobs.

Eben
Aug 16th 2009, 07:40 PM
If it was a law under the new dispensation then Paul would said so but he says in 1Cor.16

1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
He did not say give a tenth but put aside some money. This was for a specific cause, the poor in Judea. So we must give but give what you can with an open heart not with guilt feelings, because then you are giving to quenche your guilt. But to reiterate there is no law now for "tithing"

Butch5
Aug 16th 2009, 07:49 PM
I agree there is abuse, however, we must remember that the Bible teaches us, the one who preaches the gospel can live of the gospel. In other words, we need to take care of our ministers.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 07:56 PM
I agree there is abuse, however, we must remember that the Bible teaches us, the one who preaches the gospel can live of the gospel. In other words, we need to take care of our ministers.
A pastor is not a preacher. Any man can preach.

Vhayes
Aug 16th 2009, 07:59 PM
A pastor shepherds the flock.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 08:06 PM
A pastor shepherds the flock.
Which he does not need payment for.

Butch5
Aug 16th 2009, 08:08 PM
A pastor is not a preacher. Any man can preach.

Technically, however, the apostles did shepard their flocks.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 08:10 PM
Technically, however, the apostles did shepard their flocks.
Out in the fields, at night?

Butch5
Aug 16th 2009, 08:13 PM
Which he does not need payment for.

If he is going to properly Shepard his flock, he is going to need some kind of income. How can a man work full time and be there when a family is grieving? Or in an emergency? Does he continuously leave his job without giving advanced notice to meet the needs of his flock? It is not practical for an man to work full time and Shepard a flock. To do the job correctly he would not have enough time to do both. That is the very reason the tithe was instituted in the OT. The Levites could not minister to God correctly and make a living at the same time.

Butch5
Aug 16th 2009, 08:14 PM
Out in the fields, at night?

No, in the churches in the day.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 08:16 PM
No, in the churches in the day.
Doing what?


.........

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 08:20 PM
If he is going to properly Shepard his flock, he is going to need some kind of income. How can a man work full time and be there when a family is grieving?
That isn't his job.


Or in an emergency?Nor is that.


That is the very reason the tithe was instituted in the OT. The Levites could not minister to God correctly The Levites offered sacrifices and performed many functions that are now abolished. They were never preachers or pastors anyway.

Equipped_4_Love
Aug 16th 2009, 08:20 PM
If he is going to properly Shepard his flock, he is going to need some kind of income. How can a man work full time and be there when a family is grieving? Or in an emergency? Does he continuously leave his job without giving advanced notice to meet the needs of his flock? It is not practical for an man to work full time and Shepard a flock. To do the job correctly he would not have enough time to do both. That is the very reason the tithe was instituted in the OT. The Levites could not minister to God correctly and make a living at the same time.

If a pastor is getting paid by the congregation, shouldn't he be engaged in spiritual counseling? I think it's a little weird that the senior pastor of my church doesn't do counseling.

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 08:22 PM
If a pastor is getting paid by the congregation, shouldn't he be engaged in spiritual counseling?
What is the Holy Spirit for?

Brother Mark
Aug 16th 2009, 08:26 PM
If a pastor is getting paid by the congregation, shouldn't he be engaged in spiritual counseling? I think it's a little weird that the senior pastor of my church doesn't do counseling.

It depends W4C. Perhaps he is not so gifted in counseling. Here's some scripture from the apostles concerning service.

Acts 6:3-5
3 "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. 4 "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."
NASU

wenlock
Aug 16th 2009, 08:28 PM
It depends W4C. Perhaps he is not so gifted in counseling. Here's some scripture from the apostles concerning service.

Acts 6:3-5
3 "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. 4 "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."
NASU
How is that part of Scripture relevant?

Walstib
Aug 17th 2009, 12:07 AM
Standard procedure to close a thread this old, so I have done so.

A new thread can be started if there is a need.



A parting scripture


The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages." Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses. Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. (1Ti 5:17-21 NASB)