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Stefen
Nov 21st 2007, 07:23 PM
Are there any of you who have ever read about something Jesus has said or did and were just wondering why He did it that way? Is there anything that confuses you about his ways of doing things?

Like a common one I here alot is "Why was Jesus so brutal with the Pharisees?"

I just thought this would be a good idea to maybe start understanding Jesus' way of thinking. SO if any one wants to start ....

markedward
Nov 21st 2007, 09:02 PM
Jesus was outright and harshfully truthful when it came to the Pharisees because that's what it would take to rattle their hypocritical mindsets. He wasn't going to patronize them and go along with their charade that they were "good" men and "good" teachers. They were false prophets, hypocrites, and, in His words, a "brood of vipers." Jesus probably also did it so openly so other people would come to realize He was right about them, too.

Stefen
Nov 21st 2007, 09:45 PM
I believe the reason Jesus was so brutal with the pharisees was because he was giving them His neck. He knew by exposing them they would react and expose themselves even more. His strategy worked, they crusified him, they even claimed the emperor of rome as their King. The Pharisees were full of so much religion and hate they were willing to let vile criminal go rather than a righteous man, the had an incocent man crucified, they even claimed allegiance to Rome, all to just keep their religious control over the people. They didn't even really want a messiah, they wanted to run the show and keep all of the glory for themselves, they didn't want to share it with the messiah. SO Jesus by laying his life down exposed the wicked and cold heartedness of the Religious Elite and their vain religion.

Brother Mark
Nov 21st 2007, 09:52 PM
Me thinks Christ was not too fond of religious systems. Why? Because they were the ones that killed all the prophets.

Luke 13:33-34
33 "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem.
NASU

Matt 23:34-36

34 " Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 " Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
NASU

So where was Jerusalem when Abel was killed? Hmmm. Methinks it was found in Cain.

It has always been and always will be the religious system that crucified Christ. Even to this day, we see him still being crucified in many ways.

markedward
Nov 21st 2007, 09:55 PM
I believe the reason Jesus was so brutal with the pharisees was because he was giving them His neck. He knew by exposing them they would react and expose themselves even more. His strategy worked, they crusified him, they even claimed the emperor of rome as their King. The Pharisees were full of so much religion and hate they were willing to let vile criminal go rather than a righteous man, the had an incocent man crucified, they even claimed allegiance to Rome, all to just keep their religious control over the people. They didn't even really want a messiah, they wanted to run the show and keep all of the glory for themselves, they didn't want to share it with the messiah. SO Jesus by laying his life down exposed the wicked and cold heartedness of the Religious Elite and their vain religion.I don't think Jesus was trying to goad them into killing Him. He knew it would happen, but that doesn't mean He was egging them on to do it.

Saved7
Nov 22nd 2007, 04:55 PM
Jesus was outright and harshfully truthful when it came to the Pharisees because that's what it would take to rattle their hypocritical mindsets. He wasn't going to patronize them and go along with their charade that they were "good" men and "good" teachers. They were false prophets, hypocrites, and, in His words, a "brood of vipers." Jesus probably also did it so openly so other people would come to realize He was right about them, too.

I agree with this...notice they were guilty of keeping people from knowing the Lord, this is a rather condemning statement....

Mat 23:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Mat&chapter=23&verse=13&version=kjv#13)But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

God forbid that we should shut up heaven from those that would seek to know the Lord!:help:

dan
Nov 24th 2007, 09:33 AM
...Paul a Pharisee?

ACTS 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Wasn't Caiaphas a Pharisee?

JN 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
JN 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
JN 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
JN 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

And yet he was allowed to prophecy? They weren't all bad, obviously.

Slug1
Nov 24th 2007, 11:39 AM
For me the two biggest things he did was 1. create wine (an alcoholic drink) at the wedding. His first miracle as a matter of fact. Today we have Christians stating that alcohol is "evil", "sinful" etc. Kinda strange for Jesus Himself to condone the consumption of wine then, isn't it? I mean, someone at that wedding party had to drink it after it was created "after" the first batch was drank up already? :hmm:

The second is, every time Jesus talks to a centurion, not once does He tell them that their job as a soldier is sinful. Even the one's that are faithful, their faith heals their child but Jesus still didn't tell this one to leave military service. Yet today their are Christians stating that military life for a faithful servant of God is wrong. If it wasn't wrong then, why is it wrong today? :hmm:

Teke
Nov 24th 2007, 04:01 PM
Are there any of you who have ever read about something Jesus has said or did and were just wondering why He did it that way? Is there anything that confuses you about his ways of doing things?

Like a common one I here alot is "Why was Jesus so brutal with the Pharisees?"

I just thought this would be a good idea to maybe start understanding Jesus' way of thinking. SO if any one wants to start ....

I wouldn't say He was "brutal" with them. But if you mean "brutally honest", then I'd agree. He held religious leaders accountable for what they taught. If He didn't care He wouldn't have addressed them. :)

punk
Nov 25th 2007, 12:20 AM
Are there any of you who have ever read about something Jesus has said or did and were just wondering why He did it that way? Is there anything that confuses you about his ways of doing things?

Like a common one I here alot is "Why was Jesus so brutal with the Pharisees?"

I just thought this would be a good idea to maybe start understanding Jesus' way of thinking. SO if any one wants to start ....

You'll notice that, in human affairs, people spend more time arguing with the people they agree the most with.

For instance people in various cChristian groups spend more energy, and get more angry with people from other Christian groups over this or that point of doctrine than they do with people of other faiths.

The fact is the Pharisees are the group of the time whose teaching was nearest that of Jesus, so he spent more time dealing with them.

Stefen
Nov 25th 2007, 12:41 AM
Why do you all think Jesus used purification pots instead of the empty wine vessels to put new wine in?

jiggyfly
Nov 25th 2007, 12:47 AM
Luke 17:5-10
5 One day the apostles said to the Lord, “We need more faith; tell us how to get it.”
6 “Even if you had faith as small as a mustard seed,” the Lord answered, “you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘May God uproot you and throw you into the sea,’ and it would obey you!
7 “When a servant comes in from plowing or taking care of sheep, he doesn’t just sit down and eat. 8 He must first prepare his master’s meal and serve him his supper before eating his own. 9 And the servant is not even thanked, because he is merely doing what he is supposed to do. 10 In the same way, when you obey me you should say, ‘We are not worthy of praise. We are servants who have simply done our duty.’”

Here's one too, ever wonder what being a servant has to do with faith? The disciples question was "tell us how to get more faith".

jiggyfly
Nov 25th 2007, 12:48 AM
Why do you all think Jesus used purification pots instead of the empty wine vessels to put new wine in?
Great question Stefen, I don't know but I think I'm going to ask HolySpirit tonight. Thanks.

Mograce2U
Nov 25th 2007, 12:51 AM
I believe the reason Jesus was so brutal with the pharisees was because he was giving them His neck. He knew by exposing them they would react and expose themselves even more. His strategy worked, they crusified him, they even claimed the emperor of rome as their King. The Pharisees were full of so much religion and hate they were willing to let vile criminal go rather than a righteous man, the had an incocent man crucified, they even claimed allegiance to Rome, all to just keep their religious control over the people. They didn't even really want a messiah, they wanted to run the show and keep all of the glory for themselves, they didn't want to share it with the messiah. SO Jesus by laying his life down exposed the wicked and cold heartedness of the Religious Elite and their vain religion.I tend to agree.

(Dan 2:30 KJV) But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.

Daniel was given the interpretation of the king's dream so that the king might know his own heart.

(Rev 2:22-23 KJV) Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. {23} And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

(John 2:23-25 KJV) Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. {24} But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, {25} And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

(John 6:64 KJV) But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

We see Jesus evoking faith in those He drew to Himself over and over in the gospels. It seems He was also able to bring out of hiding the unbelief of the Pharisees as well. They may not have admitted their own hypocrisy, but Jesus showed it to the people nonetheless.

It seems to be a time worn principle that if you give a man enough rope he will hang himself. It certainly worked for Judas, and the Pharisees as well.

Stefen
Nov 25th 2007, 01:17 AM
Luke 17:5-10
5 One day the apostles said to the Lord, “We need more faith; tell us how to get it.”
6 “Even if you had faith as small as a mustard seed,” the Lord answered, “you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘May God uproot you and throw you into the sea,’ and it would obey you!
7 “When a servant comes in from plowing or taking care of sheep, he doesn’t just sit down and eat. 8 He must first prepare his master’s meal and serve him his supper before eating his own. 9 And the servant is not even thanked, because he is merely doing what he is supposed to do. 10 In the same way, when you obey me you should say, ‘We are not worthy of praise. We are servants who have simply done our duty.’”

Here's one too, ever wonder what being a servant has to do with faith? The disciples question was "tell us how to get more faith".

Exactly my point, Jesus seemed to always allude questions but I bet if we dig in a little deeper we can discover why he did thing the way he did.

Mograce2U
Nov 25th 2007, 01:30 AM
Luke 17:5-10
5 One day the apostles said to the Lord, “We need more faith; tell us how to get it.”
6 “Even if you had faith as small as a mustard seed,” the Lord answered, “you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘May God uproot you and throw you into the sea,’ and it would obey you!
7 “When a servant comes in from plowing or taking care of sheep, he doesn’t just sit down and eat. 8 He must first prepare his master’s meal and serve him his supper before eating his own. 9 And the servant is not even thanked, because he is merely doing what he is supposed to do. 10 In the same way, when you obey me you should say, ‘We are not worthy of praise. We are servants who have simply done our duty.’”

Here's one too, ever wonder what being a servant has to do with faith? The disciples question was "tell us how to get more faith".When Jesus instructs them to forgive the erring brother who repents regardless of how many times this must be done, the disciples ask for more faith that they might be able to do this. But this is a basic command they are to follow as His servants. Great power is available to them with only a tiny amount of faith, to move any obstacle that is in their way. But obedience to His command to forgive is merely their duty. It is what they have been "hired" to do. There is no special reward for doing what is expected.

At least that is how I see it!

jiggyfly
Nov 25th 2007, 06:29 AM
Exactly my point, Jesus seemed to always allude questions but I bet if we dig in a little deeper we can discover why he did thing the way he did.
In this particular case I think Jesus addressed the problem and not just grant their request.

In context the disciples ask Jesus "we need more faith, please show us how to get it". Jesus answers, "with even the very smallest amount of Faith can do very powerful and supernatural things. So the lack of faith is not your problem, the problem is too much self and it gets in the way of your faith. Learn to be a servant, the kind of servant that is content and satisfied with fulfilling their responsibilities well with no extra reward." In other words, deny yourself, die to self, get self out of the way and even the little faith that you have will do powerful and supernatural things.

Doer
Nov 25th 2007, 06:39 AM
I believe the reason Jesus was so brutal with the pharisees was because he was giving them His neck. He knew by exposing them they would react and expose themselves even more. His strategy worked, they crusified him, they even claimed the emperor of rome as their King. The Pharisees were full of so much religion and hate they were willing to let vile criminal go rather than a righteous man, the had an incocent man crucified, they even claimed allegiance to Rome, all to just keep their religious control over the people. They didn't even really want a messiah, they wanted to run the show and keep all of the glory for themselves, they didn't want to share it with the messiah. SO Jesus by laying his life down exposed the wicked and cold heartedness of the Religious Elite and their vain religion.
I think you have his motives wrong. His motive was to convert them in the way that would most likely succeed. The crucifixion was a result of that, he knew this and still proclaimed it because he loves them.

threebigrocks
Nov 26th 2007, 07:36 PM
Exactly my point, Jesus seemed to always allude questions but I bet if we dig in a little deeper we can discover why he did thing the way he did.


John 3


10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.



.

A820djd
Nov 26th 2007, 07:40 PM
The truth hurts?

hobbit girl
Nov 27th 2007, 02:23 AM
Why do you all think Jesus used purification pots instead of the empty wine vessels to put new wine in?

because he was trying to prove a point. they used those pots for there religious ceremonies, and jesus was trying to prove that we didn't need religion we need him.:hug:

Stefen
Nov 27th 2007, 02:47 AM
because he was trying to prove a point. they used those pots for there religious ceremonies, and jesus was trying to prove that we didn't need religion we need him.:hug:

Exactly, it was time for rest and celebration: with Him!

Stefen
Nov 27th 2007, 03:11 AM
because he was trying to prove a point. they used those pots for there religious ceremonies, and jesus was trying to prove that we didn't need religion we need him.:hug:

How is everyone at the Shire? :lol:

RoadWarrior
Nov 27th 2007, 04:14 AM
Why do you all think Jesus used purification pots instead of the empty wine vessels to put new wine in?

The purification jars were for water baptism.
The wine represents Jesus blood which is shed for us.
Jesus was "making a statement".

As Christians, we practice baptism and communion.

This entire story is wonderfully symbolic. And John is the only one who tells it. It happened quietly, a small family wedding affair, not out in the public. But John was there, he saw it happen, so he was the one to tell it.

Good question.

Stefen
Nov 27th 2007, 04:19 AM
The purification jars were for water baptism.
The wine represents Jesus blood which is shed for us.
Jesus was "making a statement".

As Christians, we practice baptism and communion.

This entire story is wonderfully symbolic. And John is the only one who tells it. It happened quietly, a small family wedding affair, not out in the public. But John was there, he saw it happen, so he was the one to tell it.

Good question.

and this blood is for drinking to eternal life, and with joy and celebration.